Heart of the Matter Episode 11: The Fall Part II

LIVE from the Mecca of Mormonism: SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH! This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology., Show 11, The Fall Part II, March 4th, 2008. And I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.

Upcoming Traveling Pastor's Schedule

Last night we held our monthly traveling pastor event in Tooele. We met at the Denny’s and had a great group. Baptisms?

Just to let you know, our upcoming Traveling Pastor's get-togethers are as follows:

• April 7th: American Fork
• May 5th: St. George
• June 23rd: Manti at the Manti Pageant
• July 7th: Park City
• August 4th: Logan
• NO SEPTEMBER – Heart in the Park
• October 6th: Provo
• November 3rd: Ogden
• December 4th: Our 2nd Annual Christmas Open House!

Go to www.bornagainmormon.com for a listing of these dates and places.

Rooted and Raised in Truth – Bible Conference

On Friday evening, April 11th, and Saturday, April 12th, there is going to be an outstanding Bible Conference titled “Rooted and Raised in Truth.” There is a cost to this event, but it would be well worth it for the experience and knowledge.

Fantastic qualified speakers out of Texas will be presenting. The event includes lunch, breakfast, and free parking at the E Center.

Call 801 280-8747 or email info@aletheiatruth.com for more information.

Online Presence and Public Perception

Some of you may or may not be aware that a Yahoo or Google search under “Shawn McCraney” or “Bornagainmormon” will reveal a variety of video clips on sites like Youtube, Godtube, and other video hosting sites. Our gratitude to our supporters who have taken the time to edit and post portions of our shows online – especially you, Andreas.

As the ministry grows, more detractors emerge, particularly since the LDS leadership has encouraged its members to defend their faith online. Recently, someone informed me about a Latter-day Saint who responded to the LDS apostles' request. We’d like to share what some LDS are doing to defend their faith.

(PLAY YOUTUBE “Shawn McFlakey”) I think the video speaks for itself.

Lots of video clips tonight, folks. Last week, a caller and I debated on who truly knows Jesus and how this knowledge affects their lives. The caller defended a relativist, postmodern perspective, which essentially denies absolute truth, promoting the idea that “your way is fine and my way is fine and nothing is black and nothing is white.”

This attitude, prevalent in Christianity, stems from pastors and preachers not teaching the Word effectively. Though a postmodern attitude persists and perhaps always will, even Hollywood depicted a scene where a dying man sought absolute truth from a postmodern pastor who couldn’t provide any real truth.

(Play ER clip)

Since the inception of our ministry, my biggest frustration has been regarding the LDS claim that my experience in Mormonism was “defective.” They claim the things I discuss about modern-day Mormonism don’t exist. They say compassionately, “Why, I’ve been a member of the Church all my life, Shawn, and I’ve never seen or heard anything like that before.”

The doctrines we present are “provable” and usually printed somewhere, yet denials often refer to the “attitudes and general opinions” the Saints share. From my experience, I claim the LDS are spiritually arrogant, while they argue they are merely “confident” in their truths. I say they have “hidden agendas” and don't speak the truth publicly, whereas they claim they only share what others can understand.

Last week, we received a call from a man named John from Illinois, who served in a ward Bishopric. His tone suggested he was legitimate and a staunch member.

Examination of LDS Public and Private Persona

It was the call I had been waiting to receive on the air for two years. You see, there is a public persona which most LDS maintain and then there is an attitude they will exhibit to one another, or to those who are in “the know” or the elect. I suggest that their history of persecution, the political environment existing within the Church, the secret temple rites, and the “us versus them” mentality with the outside world has served to promote and perfect this public/private persona. Finally, last week, we had an LDS caller somehow forget that he was talking on live television.

Before we watch the clip of John’s call, I’d like you to listen for a few things in the tape: First, listen to the tone John has in his voice. This is a learned tone, shared by most LDS men who sincerely believe that they actually represent God’s priesthood here on earth. They use it like a tool. Second, listen to John’s references. To whom does he say I will be ashamed? Joseph Smith. To whom does he say I will look up and see from outer darkness? Joseph Smith. To whom does he say’s face will be shining like the noon day sun? You got it. Why didn’t John mention Jesus? Because He is not truly in the collective LDS heart. Finally, when I countered and questioned John, when I refused to accept his claim to being a high priest, and frankly shoved it right back in his face, what did John do? He spoke the abundance of his heart, that’s what he did. He revealed the secret contents of his very LDS heart. Watch and hear.

Critique of Mormonism's Core Ideals

You know, people have criticized us for saying that Mormonism is not as it seems. That Mormonism doesn’t deserve a United States President. They tell us we are hateful, that we are bigoted, that we are dangerous because we just don’t embrace Mormonism and “all the good it does.” I’m telling you, having been in the religion for forty years solid – the organization called Mormonism – from the roots of Joseph Smith up – is founded on the ideas of Man and is nothing but humanism in disguise. It is the best of humanism – and the worst. Their general intent is to overtake then govern the world, if not by loving persuasion, then by might.

Addressing Criticisms and Seeking Truth

(ROLL SEGMENT FROM LAST WEEK) Let’s have a Word with the Lord.

Lord, they say we are unfair – but we try our best to share only your truths. They say we are anti-Mormon, Lord, but we simply want the LDS to experience the saving Grace of Jesus. Lord, they say we are evil – they threaten us and mock us and try us. But we pray tonight, Lord, that you will open eyes and ears and hearts of those seeking your truth in their lives. This is our hope. In Jesus name.

Discussion on The Fall

Last week we continued to speak about the Fall. We talked about the LDS view that Adam had to sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. to bring about God’s wishes and we said this was not so. We explained that to the LDS way of thinking, that God gave Adam two commandments – to multiply and replenish the earth with children and to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil – and that in their teachings, the only way to obey the one was to disobey the other. In other words, the only way Adam and Eve would know how to multiply was to eat of the tree, which would give them the knowledge on how to do it. We received a really insightful call from ________________ who pointed out that God had commanded the animals to multiply and replenish the earth prior to the fall too. Again, was this an empty command on God’s part or were the animals capable of carrying out God’s will obediently?

Finally, we asked a question: If eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was a good thing as the LDS claim, and would enable Adam and Eve to create bodies for the spirits in heaven, WHY would Satan tempt Eve to eat of the fruit, knowing full well that in so doing, God’s plan would be put into effect. It makes no sense.

Before we discuss this “fall upward” as the LDS call it, or whether they transgressed or sinned, and how the LDS interpretation of the Fall plays out into their ideas on salvation, the virgin birth, etc., there is an area I have to cover tonight or I will not be

The Adam God Doctrine

It’s called the Adam God Doctrine.

Now, let me make some things perfectly clear: I am sharing this teaching with you but the LDS have – HAVE – renounced this teaching. They have? Yes, amazingly enough, they have publicly renounced the teaching of the Adam/God doctrine (or what they call the Adam/God Theory).

“So why would you be talking about this teaching?” you might ask. By the time we're done, you will understand. Now this teaching, which was introduced by Brigham Young to the Church, has been a miserable doctrine to Mormonism’s desire for legitimacy. They have attempted to say and do all sorts of things to make it seem like it was never “really” taught, or that it was never really doctrine, or that it was never really understood in the way it was intended. After you hear the facts – you tell us whether it was really taught or intended or not – okay?

Contradictions with Sacred Texts

Now, obviously, the Adam/God doctrine stands against the Bible – completely. But admittedly, it also stands against the Book of Mormon. Church President Spencer W. Kimball publicly stated that the Adam/God doctrine was “false doctrine” even though it was taught as true doctrine by Brigham Young for over 19 years and was embraced by the church for fifty years! Now I challenge you to go and read for yourselves what this doctrine was about. Go to UTLM.org and read the actual reproduced photocopies of it or go to the Journal of Discourses (volume 1) and read it directly from the source.

Brigham Young's Teachings

What did Brigham Young say or teach in this false doctrine? In a sermon he said: “Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile. Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken – he is our father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do!”

Now listen, all alone, this is a preposterous statement, but this teaching was not a singular outlandish slip of the tongue for Young, serving as the prophet, seer, and revelator of the Church. It was taught by him repeatedly, AND it was embraced by the LDS faithful throughout their lives. Brigham Young also made the claim that once he has spoken, and then corrected anything errant, his words were SCRIPTURE. But he never corrected anything about his Adam/God teachings throughout his life, so he was presenting this teaching as THE WORD OF GOD.

LDS defenders today try and say it was never taught as doctrine, or that Brigham never intended it to be. But a year after he delivered this sermon on Adam God, it was printed in the LDS Millennial Star and was then reproduced in the JOD where Brigham Young completely endorsed it. In fact, Young was still teaching the Adam/God doctrine over two decades later. It seems the people were having some trouble accepting this teaching (praise God) which caused Young to say on June 18th 1873: “How much unbelief exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular DOCTRINE which I revealed to them and which GOD REVEALED TO ME . . . namely, that Adam is our Father and our God.”

Later in the speech, he has Adam explain himself (in part) by saying: “I want my children to [who] are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt on an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful. I received my crown and exaltation (meaning He became a God). I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery.”

Endorsements from LDS Leaders

Prominent LDS leader F.D Richards said in the Millennial Star: “Concerning the doctrine that Adam is our Father and God . . . the prophet and apostle Brigham has declared it, and that is the word of the Lord.” George Q Cannon said: “Jesus Christ is Jehovah and Adam is His Father and our God.” Hosea Stout in his journal wrote: “Another meeting this evening. Brigham Young taught that Adam was the Father of Jesus and the

The Adam/God Doctrine

In the Minutes from the LDS School of the Prophets, ten to fifteen years after Brigham Young first taught the Adam/God doctrine, LDS member A.F. McDonald wrote:

“ . . . when I first heard the doctrine of Adam being our Father and God, I was favorably impressed – enjoyed and hailed it as “new revelation – it appeared reasonable to me as the father of our spirits, that he should introduce us here.”

I think this quote brings out an important point which needs to be understood about the Adam/God teaching, now refuted by the LDS as false.

The Teaching of Adam/God

That is, the teaching was that Adam, whose true identity was Michael above, had once been a man on another world and had reached Godhood through his faithfulness. He had acquired many wives who were sealed to him in this earlier life, and in our pre-existent state, which was his celestial glory state, he procreated spirit children with these wives. Then he – as Michael – came to earth with a celestial body with one of his wives, became Adam, fell upward purposefully, and then with Eve began to procreate physical bodies for their spirit children waiting above. This was the teaching, by the Mormon prophet, which was considered truth, and embraced by the LDS people under his care, as doctrine from God.

And herein lies the rub.

First, Brigham, as the Prophet of the LDS believers either told them an eternal truth or he told them a lie. Which would mean Spencer W Kimball, as the Prophet of the LDS believers, either told us the truth, or he told us a lie. In either case, the machinations of Man have led the LDS people astray.

Second, listen to the Mormonicious way in which Spencer W. Kimball rescinds the Adam/God doctrine. There are two key words here that make this statement categorically insidious. In the October 9th, 1976 Church News, Kimball said:

“We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some of the general authorities of past generations. Such, for instance, is the Adam/God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautious against this and other kinds of false doctrine.”

The Impact on Believers

SO while it is perfectly acceptable for men like Brigham Young to teach whatever the hell inspires them as truth, and then it is the right of men like Spencer W. Kimball to retroactively denounce what they have said as false, who loses in this game of doctrinal and authoritative masturbation? Those who believe either of them.

My friends – my LDS brothers and sisters – there was a time when good (in the sense the world sees good) and hardworking men and women walked this earth believing that Adam was the literal Father of their spirits. And then there came a time when an LDS prophet said this was a lie – that it was false!

What is the lesson? Walk from this MAN –ipulation and turn to the Word of God for truth. Turn to Jesus Christ. Call out to Him. Make Him, and your faith in Him and Him alone the focal point of your temporal and spiritual lives. Turn your will and ways over to Him. You don’t need me or this show. You don’t need Joseph, or Brigham, or Thomas, or their standard works – you need Him. And His Word.

Let’s open up the phones:

(801) 973-TV20
(801) 973-8820

Emails:

Conclusion:
Lordsword

See you next week, here on Heart of the Matter.

(Graffic for Lord’sword)