Shawn McCraney emphasized the importance of adhering to the original Gospel of Jesus Christ without any additions or alterations, using the analogy of a perfect brownie recipe to illustrate that any deviation, no matter how small, results in a different and defective outcome. He argued that while the Latter-day Saints might consider their faith in Jesus sufficient, changes to the original Gospel make their belief system fundamentally flawed and not aligned with the Biblical teachings.
Shawn's teaching emphasizes that, unlike the LDS viewpoint of pre-existence, the Christian perspective believes God is the ultimate creator who breathed life into Adam, making him a living soul, while Eve was formed from Adam with the life of God already within him. Christians hold that God's commands, such as the one in the Garden of Eden, are straightforward and trustworthy, providing humans with the ability to reason and choose for themselves, emphasizing the importance of a direct and personal relationship with God rather than adherence to organizational doctrines.
God's intention was for Adam and Eve to enjoy life and procreate in harmony with His commands, but free will allowed them to choose disobedience, leading to the Fall and the introduction of sin into the world. Despite their disobedience, the teaching emphasizes that God desires a close relationship with His followers, where they approach Him for guidance, akin to the open relationship Adam and Eve initially had with Him.
Shawn critiques LDS teachings by highlighting a contradiction where Adam and Eve must break a commandment to fulfill another, claiming this undermines the trustworthiness of divine commandments, as seen through the lens of Latter-day Saints. He questions why Satan would encourage Adam and Eve to transgress since it ultimately facilitates God's plan for spiritual progression, presenting this as a fundamental flaw in Mormon doctrine.
Satan aimed to deceive Adam and Eve into believing that consuming the forbidden fruit would grant them enlightenment and power, allowing them to exist independently from God. Despite this deception targeting both, it is noted in 1 Timothy 2:14 that Adam was not deceived, but the woman was and fell into transgression.
Live from Salt Lake City
This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology.! Show 10: The Fall Part I February 26th 2008
And I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.
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A Rational Question from a Latter-day Saint
Received an email from a Latter-day Saint that asked what appears to be a rational question:
Jax wrote:
If nothing else matters relative to what people do to follow Jesus, why did Jesus lay forth His gospel and give His life for it? Why did He warn us that false prophets would arise? Why did Paul say in Galatians that we are to avoid other “gospel's” even if an angel of light were to preach it to us? Why? Because any other gospel – with its subtractions, or additions, or its counterfeits, or its fables – is NOT the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it leads and keeps people from the saving Truths of the New Covenant.
The Brownie Recipe Analogy
You should really need no other explanation. But perhaps an illustration would be of benefit. Suppose that there was a world-wide contest for the best brownie recipe and from hundreds of thousands of entries one was deemed the best brownie recipe of all time. The recipe is exacting, with everything regarding content and procedure needing to be followed exactly to reproduce the brownie desired. Now suppose, someone comes along and they reproduce the brownie recipe exactly – in contents and procedure BUT they add a few items to it – would it be the prize winning recipe? No, it would not – no matter what was added. Or, let’s say someone came along and decided to alter a procedure, or substitute one ingredient for another – would it be the same prize winning recipe, Jax? No it would not. Now, suppose that someone came along and added a teaspoon of motor oil, and a half a cup of metal shavings to the mix. Could you say that just because all the elements to the prize winning recipe were present that the recipe was edible and safe to eat? Not if you are in your right mind.
So here’s the deal, Jax. The Christians take God’s recipe for the Gospel of Jesus Christ as found in the recipe book – the Bible – and apply it religiously – no pun intended. The author of the recipe is God. Because the LDS have changed God’s recipe – with good or evil intent, we don’t know – the fact remains: It is different, it is not of God, and it therefore presents a defective result.
Hope this helps. Because most Latter-day Saints – Jax included – do not understand what it means to be born-again or to have a regenerative faith in Jesus Christ, this question, in their minds, seems quite rational.
From their perspective, “faith in Jesus is faith in Jesus,” what does it matter if a religion requires more? As long as what they call “faith in Jesus is there,” then all is well and good, right? Wrong. Now we could approach this email in a number of ways. We could go the route that the LDS actually have faith, in fact, in “another Jesus,” – a Jesus who is created, an “elder brother,” etc., etc. But we won’t go there. Or, we could quote Jesus’ own words, that “many will say they have faith in Him and will even do many wonderful works in His name” but He will say He doesn’t even know them! But we’ll refrain from this approach to and instead try and answer Jax’s question in another way.
Recent Discussion on LDS Claims
Last week, we talked about the LDS claims that the Garden of Eden was located in the State of Missouri, right next to a place Joseph said Adam and Eve lived named “Adam-ondi-Ahman.” I posted a query relative to the topic on our website message board and asked for LDS defenders of the faith to respond. I did this to show our message board readers that no matter how ridiculous the claims of Joseph Smith, the “defenders, the apologists” – self-appointed though they may be – would somehow find a
The Defense of the LDS Faith
More and more, LDS people are pulling the “intolerance card” in the defense of their faith, labeling anyone who merely rejects their claims as religious bigots. They are attempting to limit language, saying that terms like “twistianity” are not very (sniff, sniff) Christ-like. Forget that Joseph said that God told him that all the Churches on earth were corrupt! Forget that missionaries today claim that the LDS Church is the ONLY true Church on the face of the earth and NOBODY can live with God unless they accept it. Forget that LDS leaders have ridiculed the Bible – a Christian’s most sacred book – as not being trustworthy.
Stay the fight, my friends, because this is a war – a war for souls. The difference is you and I seeking for people to come to an unfettered regenerative relationship with God through faith in His Son and they are looking to captivate people to serve their organization. Arise, my LDS brothers and sisters, you have nothing to lose but your chains.
The Christian Perspective on Creation and the Fall
So with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden now, we come to our two-week discussion on the Fall. I think it is important to explain the Christian view of the creation of Adam, of Eve, and of the Fall before we address the LDS. I will try and do this in short but efficient order.
To the Christian, God is creator. This isn’t just a title, it is Him. He creates and gives life in a hundred billion trillion ways. One way God gives life was by creating Humans in His own image, three parts in one. As such, He gave human beings an ability to reason, think, decide, and choose for ourselves. Of course, He also created beasts, and angels, and planets, and maybe even dangly alien creatures that fill the cosmos. But God created Man and desired fellowship with him. He provided a gorgeous and beautiful world for Adam and Eve – collectively the first Man – to live.
Now instead of this Hellenistic notion of a pre-existence of spirits which the LDS embrace, Christians believe that God created Adam and breathed His life into his body. This is why He didn’t breathe into Eve – for His life was already in Adam from whom Eve was taken.
Biblical References in Creation
Genesis 2:7 says
“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
This breath, Christians believe, gave and gives all men and women life – the living breath of God.
Ecclesiastes 12:7
“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
As a creator, God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden and gave them commands. In the first account of the creation, it reads:
Genesis 1:28
“And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
And then, in the second account of the creation, God said to Adam (Eve hadn’t been formed of his rib yet):
Genesis 2:16
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Now, Christians the world over believe that God is a 100% straight shooter. He does not tempt people, neither does He deceive them. What He says can be and should be completely trusted. The commands God gives are not contradictory, obtuse, or full of trickery. And this was not a game God was playing with Adam and Eve. God told them to multiply and replenish the earth and He told them to not partake of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Christians believe that both.
Creation and Free Will
of these commands could be followed exactly as God had given them. Again, God wanted fellowship with Adam and Eve. He wanted to be their God and He wanted them to enjoy the world He had created for them and the children they would produce. DeathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God., disfigurement, sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace., disease, and children being tortured is not part of God’s will. He did not desire His creation to fall into sin and depravation. As the grand creator, God hates death and destruction. He hates pain and woe and misery. He loves life, and joy, and happiness, and pleasure – BUT – he adores free will at all costs.
You see, Adam and Eve could have trusted God and His commands. They could have been fruitful and multiplied and subdued the earth as they were commanded. Why, just look at what Adam was able to do before the fall!
The Fall of Mankind
In Genesis 2:19, it says:
“And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.”
How does an uninformed being come up with names for all the animals? Adam was such a capable creation of God, that God told him to exercise domain over all the earth! As capable creations, Adam and Eve could have had children. Christians say, “If they weren’t capable of procreating, why would God command them to procreate?” Then they faithfully answer: He wouldn’t. And let me tell you, any man with the parts will somehow figure out how to use them.
But let’s say Adam or Eve were uncertain about how to go about “multiplying and replenishing the earth,” – because they were so “innocent or uninformed.” Well they could have openly asked God about how to proceed – they had that kind of relationship with Him. They had no shame then. They could have said, “God, we know we’re not supposed to eat of the tree of Knowledge but how are we supposed to multiply and replenish the earth?”
The Result of Sin
In fact, this is the kind of relationship God wants with all of His regenerated children today – for us to come to Him with everything and let Him be our guide and let Him be our God. In fact, this is exactly the kind of relationship people today have with God who have been born-again. So God didn’t mislead Adam and Eve or trick them by give them conflicting orders. He said multiply and replenish the earth and He said don’t eat of the tree. If we can’t trust the things God says from the beginning, then everything He says becomes suspect! You with me so far?
Christians believe that Mankind could have lived forever in a paradise (similar to heaven) but that sin was introduced into the world and Satan took title deed of ownership. This is the world each of us find ourselves born into – a sinful, fallen world. As a result of the Fall. How did the Fall occur? Let me quickly read from the manual, Genesis Chapter three, starting at verse one:
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
So Eve, seeing that the tree was “good for food,” that it was “pleasant to the eyes” and that it could “make one wise” – to become, as the tempter said, “as God,” was deceived and partook of the fruit and then got Adam to do the same.
Contradictions in LDS Teachings
First John 3:4 reads:
1st John 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Alright, we got all that?
Joseph Smith and a Different God
So, along comes Joseph Smith and he gives us a different God who has different intentions and methods of operating. A different plan, as it were.
To the Mormons, God told Adam and Eve to multiply and replenish the earth but He knew they were incapable of doing this because they didn’t have the knowledge on how to (ahem) proceed. So in order to be able to fulfill the command to “multiply and replenish the earth,” they had to break God’s Law to “not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil,” which would open their eyes, and thereby allow them to know how to create children.
To the LDS, as long as Adam and Eve remained ignorant in the garden, they would be in violation of God’s command to multiply and replenish the earth, so they were either in violation of one of His Laws (to multiply and replenish the earth) because they were without knowledge of how to do it OR they would have to violate the other Law (to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil) in order to understand how to procreate!
Whoooooo-weeeeeee! “Oh the tangled webs we weave . . . .” Relative to Christian thinking there are some ASTOUNDING results from this LDS perspective:
First of all, Adam and Eve had to transgress one of God’s Law’s because to the LDS, they were unable to obey them both. God had placed them in a “Catch-22,” so to speak. As an indirect result of this, Joseph introduced a most heinous concept to the LDS mind:
Interpretation of God's Words
The idea that God’s words do not always mean what they say, and therefore cannot be trusted for what they are! They are forever subject to private interpretation, adaptation, and revision if necessary.
“Well,” the LDS hypothetically may say in their minds, “Jesus may have said there is no marriage in heaven, but (wink, wink) we know that He didn’t really mean that!”
“God may have said “Thou shalt not kill” said Brigham to the men at Mountain Meadows,” but we know He didn’t really mean that in a situation like this!”
Sure God said, “There is no God before me . . .” BUT . . .
God said, “BUT . . .!”
See the problem?
Now in one of the verses where the Book of Mormon actually contradicts the Bible, it reads:
“Adam fell that men might be, and men are that they might have joy . . .” (2nd Nephi 2:25)
This verse emphasized the LDS idea that in order for God’s plan of Salvation for Man to move forward, for the spirit children waiting in the pre-existence to be able to come into mortality, Adam had to fall – sin had to be brought into this world.
Brigham Young said:
“Some may regret that our first parents sinned. This is nonsense. If we had been there and they had not sinned, we would have sinned. I will not blame Adam and Eve. Why? Because it was necessary that sin should enter into the world.”
Now think about this for a minute.
And then we are going to go to the phones:
To Latter-day Saints, according to Brigham Young (we’ll talk about their use of the word transgression next week) sin needed to be brought into the world.
Think about sin for a minute. I mean the horrors of it, the sick, debased, suffering caused by it.
And the LDS rejoice that Adam brought sin into paradise.
The Role of Satan in LDS Narrative
Why? Because according to them, it was the only way spirit children could come to earth and gain bodies – it was the only way Man could progress toward Godhood.
Now before we go to the phones, I have one question. PLEASE someone who is LDS give me an answer:
Why would Satan tempt Adam and Eve to sin or transgress since by getting them to fall it would ENABLE, it would FACILITATE God’s plan for His Spirit Children to get bodies?
Why would he get them to fall if it was the ONLY way for us to come down and progress? Wouldn’t Satan have sought to frustrate God and His ways by doing everything possible to keep Adam and Eve away from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?
Herein lies one of the greatest cracks in the LDS teachings.
Let’s open up the phone lines:
This was a big fat lie.
The Deception of Knowledge
Understanding shall be greatly enlightened and improved; and ye shall be as gods. The object of Satan appears to have been this: to persuade our first parents that they should, by eating of this fruit, become wise and powerful as God, (for knowledge is power,) and be able to exist forever, independently of Him, to be removed from Him, to Fall from Him.
(REFERENCE: 1st Timothy 2:14
“And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”)
Callers Guidance
(801) 973-8820
(801) 973-TV20
First time callers, please.
LDS callers if at all possible!
Turn your television sets down, please.
Email Segment
AND WHILE WE WAIT ON THE OPERATORS . . .
I never leave enough time to read emails so let me hit a few before we go to our phones.
FROM:
FROM:
FROM:
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Conclusion
Hey, come on down to LORD’SWORD sometime if you already haven’t. Go to www.lordsword.org for more information.
And there may be people at Denny’s tonight, so head on over and meet some new friends.
See you next week, here on “Heart of the Matter!”
