Understanding the Role of Prophets and Apostles in LDS Beliefs
Welcome to Heart of the Matter
Shawn McCraney, your host. Shout out to all those who attended our Brigham City “Heart in the Home” last night! Great turn out at Russell and Susanne C’s house.
Interested in hosting your own? shawn@bornagainmormon.com
Shout out to “Heath” – a tall and handsome LDS man in the Pink Floyd shirt who I met at the airport last week. The Barron’s from England, an LDS couple who watch the show.
And a shout out to… what? What? She’s here? All the way from California? Ladies and Gentlemen, brothers and sistas, I have the distinct pleasure of introducing to you for the first time on Heart of the Matter, one of our caller, my middle daughter, Miss Cassidy McCraney!
Question on Modern Prophets
Okay, GAMA! Get a Mormon Answer
Last week's Question: “Why do we need a prophet today if God sent His Holy Spirit to be with all who believe?”
RESPONSES INCLUDED:
Today, we are going to answer these responses and more as our topic is prophets and apostles!
Next week’s GAMA question: “As a Latter-day Saint, does Joseph Smith play a role in your salvation? Yes or no, and if yes, how?” Email at shawn@bornagainmormon.com
Prayer
They say a lot of things about him:
The first prophet of the LDS Church was named Joseph Smith, Jr. Brigham Young was second. Since 1830, there have been a succession of men leading the LDS Church who accept the lofty title of Prophet, Seer, and Revelator for the Church. The prophet, seer, and revelator of the LDS Church today is a man named Gordon B Hinckley. At the last LDS general conference in October, the Saints stood for him and sang:
"We thank thee, O God for a prophet, to guide us in these latter-days."
The Need for Prophets Today
Are prophets “like unto Moses” needed to guide believers in Jesus in “these latter-days?” Does the Bible support the idea that prophets like Moses and Elijah would continue to lead the Body of Christ after the death and resurrection of the Lord, supposedly speaking with God and bringing forth new revelation to the world OR is this another religious construct aimed at keeping better control of the masses while providing a tangible living substitute for the invisible God?
From a very young age, LDS children are inculcated through pictures, talks, lessons, and songs, on the importance of “following the Prophet.” They sing:
“Follow the prophet! Follow the prophet! Follow the prophet! Don’t go astray- aye. Follow the prophet! Follow the prophet! Follow the prophet! He knows the way.”
It’s a powerful song. When Cassidy could barely even talk, her Grandma was the primary chorister. She would lead the children in this song. Being quite demonstrative and dramatic, Cassidy developed some hand gestures to go along with the music and words. The children still do these gestures in the primary when they sing.
Pictures, lessons, life histories, and personal stories from the lives of the LDS prophets are shown and taught more in the LDS Church collectively than pictures and stories of Jesus. Argue all you want. Like it or not. It’s true. And it has got to change.
Arguments Supporting Modern Prophets
Entire years are spent learning about the modern prophet’s childhoods, families, and their most noted contributions to the building of the Church.
That “He speaks for the Lord.” That “He is the only person on earth who holds all the authority to act in God’s name.” That “If you follow him, you will not go astray.” That “He speaks with God today as Moses spoke with God yesterday.” That “He is a prophet, a seer, and a revelator.”
Who is he? The LDS call him, “The prophet.”
When criticized about having a modern-day prophet “like unto Moses” the LDS respond with four main arguments that justify having a prophet (and apostles) to “guide them in these Latter-days.” They are…
That it says in Amos 3:5 “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” That the apostles cast lots and brought another person in (Mathias) to replace Judas as one of the Twelve (thereby showing that 12 apostles were always needed in the Church).
That it reads in Ephesians 4:11 “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.”
Finally, they use an oft repeated appeal to logic that says “God loves us as much today as He loved His children back in Moses day and therefore He would send prophets to lead and guide us today, wouldn’t he?”
Understanding Prophets and Apostles
Let’s look at these arguments – and the topic of prophets and apostles – exegetically, inductively, and by examining God’s Word contextually.
Amos 3:5 “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”
In the context of the Book, God was about to bring judgment upon the Children of Israel because of their disobedience. Verse one of the chapter says:
“Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel . . .”
The words that follow in Amos 3 are the words of Judgment God had Amos speak. The verse in question simply reminds the Children of Israel that God is not punishing them without having given them a warning first! It is NOT an edict that God does nothing on this earth without revealing his secrets to a prophet.
If that were so, then Gordon B Hinckley should be able to reveal when every individual person on earth will die – isn’t that one God’s secrets? Or what about the secret to Jesus walking on water or how all the miracles occur! Aren’t those God’s secrets? Shouldn’t He have revealed these secrets to a prophet?
Well, let’s step back a minute. Has God ever spoken to prophets? Certainly. Then why not today?
Contextual Understanding of Scripture
If God said in the Bible: “Don’t kill,” but then in another place He said, “Kill,” we would need to look at the context of the verses to understand the true meaning in each place. It is very easy to select a passage, build an entire doctrine on it, and interpret it literally.
I was introduced to “selective and literal scripture application” which is what the LDS tend to do with the Bible, while on my LDS mission to the Amish in Harrisburg Pennsylvania. I learned that the Amish would not chop wood because the Bible said, “What God has put together let no man tear asunder.” This is a “literal and selective” approach to interpreting and applying scripture.
Does the Lords words in Matthew 8:22 “Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead,” prohibit believers from holding funerals? If it does, you have taken a literal and selective approach to understanding the Word.
Should followers of Jesus love their families? Because Jesus said (Luke 14:26): If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Should we take this literally and selectively or should we read it in context of the entire biblical message?
Or how about one of my favorite passages found in Deuteronomy 23:1: He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. Does this apply today? Can a man enter the congregation of the Lord who got hit in the stones the day before with a Frisbee or had a really messy accident with a weedeater?
Of all the other passages about prophets in the OT, there is none like this one in Amos. Sound scholarship tells us to look at the verse in Amos in the context of the chapter, the book of Amos itself, the Old Testament, and the Bible as a whole.
The Law and the Prophets
For the very same reason we aren’t under the law anymore. Have you ever noticed the phrase “the Law and the Prophets” in scripture? It’s everywhere in the New Testament!
Matthew 7:12 ¶ Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the Law and the prophets.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Act 13:15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying . . .
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
What did we say last week happened to the Law of the Old Covenant? It was fulfilled in JESUS right? Well what about the Prophets?
LISTEN!
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
We know from several places in scripture that both the Law and the Prophets were fulfilled in Jesus, that the office of prophet (like Moses) served its purpose.
The Role of Prophets Since the Ascension of Jesus Christ
that the term “prophet” takes on a new meaning since ascension of Jesus Christ. In a moment, we’ll review FIVE proofs that will illustrate these point.
Alright, the LDS also say that the apostles cast lots and brought another person in (Mathias) to replace Judas as one of the twelve (thereby showing that 12 apostles were always needed in the Church).
To this, let me ask you, what do we know about this apostle that was brought in to replace Judas whose name was Mathias. What does scripture tell us about him? NOTHING AT ALL! I suggest we know nothing about him for a very good reason: He was brought in by the notions of men and not by order of God. Nowhere does God tell the apostles to replace Judas by limiting the choice to two men? Where does he tell them to casting lots to reveal His choice? This was a mistake of the early apostles.
Now ask yourself, “Was another apostle brought in? He certainly was. How? By God calling him. Not men. Who was he? Saul of Tarsus. Did he personally see Jesus? Was he a first hand witness of Jesus? Yes. Was he authorized by the apostles? Was he ordained by them? No. But do we read much of him and his work throughout the Word? Absolutely.
Here’s the point: Mathias example is not viable example because Mathias was not a viable apostle. He was put in place by the will of Man. Paul was called the way all of us are called and authorized today. By Him and His will, not through religious form.
Apostles and Prophets in Scripture
Third, the LDS read Ephesians 4:11 (again, literally and subjectively) and believe this supports having a prophet whom they say is like unto Moses today.
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.”
A few thoughts on this: Every time prophets and apostles are mentioned in scripture, they are written as “Apostles and Prophets” and not “Prophets and Apostles.” Why? Because apostles have an authoritatively superior position in the Body of Christ than someone with the spiritual gift of prophecy today.
1st Corinthian 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Apostles are special witnesses of Jesus – first hand witnesses. Have the LDS apostles witnessed Jesus firsthand? If so, they should state it with honor and glory to Him. Apostles would never be reticent to share such a testimony with the world! Now, the LDS will allow impressions to exist. But never come out and claim it.
The Office of Prophet
It’s also important to distinguish between the office of prophet and the spiritual gift of Prophecy. My five points on why prophets like unto Moses are no longer necessary, which we’ll cover in a minute, will help us in our understanding of this. Suffice it to say, there are men and women with the spiritual gift of prophecy on earth today, but only one being who holds the office of Prophet – that is Jesus.
Finally, the LDS missionaries often make the statement, based in nothing more than uninformed logic, that says “God loves us as much today as He loved His children back in Moses day and therefore He would send prophets now to lead us, wouldn’t he?”
My first response to this is, “Why yes Elder, God does love us as much today, that is why He sent His Son.
But let’s address this frankly laughable argument with the five proofs.
Okay, here we go:
Proof #1 The use of the phrase, “All of the prophets” in the Bible.
Listen to the way prophets are spoken of in the New Testament:
Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since
Main Theme: Prophets and the Role of Jesus
Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets . . .
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
The prophets were before Christ Jesus, they pointed to Jesus, told of Jesus, spoke of Jesus. They revealed God’s will until Jesus came. When Jesus came, their job was done, because Jesus ultimately revealed God and His will in the flesh. Remember, God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son!
Parable of the Wicked Husbandman
Proof #2 Parable of the Wicked Husbandman
Found in every one of the synoptic gospels.
Luke 20
Mark 12
Matthew 21:33-37
33 There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Again, the prophets served a purpose, and were persecuted for it. But last of all God sent His Son!!
Hebrews 1:1 as a Proof
Proof #3 “Hebrews 1:1
Perhaps there is no greater passage that better explains the point than in Hebrews?
Heb 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds. In these last days, God speaks to us by His Son! And how does this happen? Through the Word and through the Holy Ghost!
The Holy Spirit at Pentecost
Proof #4 The Holy Spirit at Pentecost
Why would we need a Joseph Smith, a Brigham Young, or a Gordon B Hinckley to “guide us in these latter-days” when we have the Holy Spirit AND the Word?
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. God wants a relationship with each of us directly. He wants to teach us. He wants to tell us, He wants to lead us and guide us.
The veil was rent. We don’t need any man as the intermediary between us and God. No more high priests. No more prophets like unto Moses. If we are born again, our spirit operates with God as the pilot with us learning how to live by trusting Him. He tells us how to live. He knows the way!
Men seek the advice and trust in other men because they are afraid to walk by faith! They are afraid to wholly trust in God. They want to turn their thinking over to a person or institution to escape the pain and trial of leaning on Jesus. Religious institutions know this, and so they interject all sorts of answers for people – programs, manuals, prophets, popes – and none of them are part of the New Covenant through Jesus. This is why there is more emphasis on modern prophets than Jesus in Mormonism today – because they have arrogantly placed themselves in between God and man as earthly mediators!
Follow the Savior
Iesoos Yeshua
Follow Lord Jesus,
Don’t go astray-aye!
Follow Christ Jesus
Our modern-day prophet
Follow The Lamb
He knows the Way!
He IS the way. 🙂
Let’s open the phones up before I give you proof #5
(801) 973-TV20
973-8820
Remember,
One question or point only!
Take no more than 20 seconds!
First time callers please!
Proof #5 It is offered by what happened on the Mount of Transfiguration.
Mark 9:2-8
Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus took Peter and James and John and led them up into a high mountain, apart by themselves. And He was transfigured before them.
3 And His clothing became shining, exceedingly white as snow such as no fuller on earth could whiten them.
4 And Elijah with Moses was seen by them, and they were talking with Jesus.
8 And suddenly, looking around, they did not see anyone any more, except Jesus alone with themselves.
What does this mean?
It means Jesus, who at the time was between the suffering in the wilderness.
The Transfiguration of Jesus
and the suffering on the cross, was transformed! Wherein a visual manifestation of the glory beneath His Flesh was revealed. Besides, Peter, James and John, who was there?
Now of all the prophets, why was Moses and Elijah there when the Glory of Jesus was revealed? Why not Isaiah? Why not Samuel? Because they represented respectively the Law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah) and represented the fulfillment of them in what Jesus was about to do. Moses represented the Law, for through Moses the Law was delivered to the Children of Israel. And Elijah represented the Prophets. Why? Elijah was the prophet of prophets, who had the most radical of radical ministries of the Old Covenant. Both Moses and Elijah had deaths that were uncommon to other men, possibly because they would be using their bodies at the transfiguration of Jesus. Moses disappeared without his burial place being known and Elijah was taken up into heaven in a fiery chariot. Interestingly, both returned in their bodies that so strangely disappeared at the time of their passing. Why?
The Jewish Targum connects the “coming of Moses with that of the Messiah.” Another Jewish tradition predicts “his appearance with that of Elijah.”
Discussion of the Transfiguration
What did Moses and Elijah talk about with Jesus as He was transfigured? Luke (Luke 9:31) "They spake of his death which he should accomplish at Jerusalem." The cloud which overshadowed the witnesses was bright or light-like, luminous, of the same kind as the cloud at Sinai when Moses spake with God, the same into which Elijah disappeared in the heavens via chariot, the same seen at the ascension of the Lord. Why was Moses and Elijah at the miraculous Transfiguration? It was a witness that the spirits of the lawgiver and the prophet accepted the sufferings and the death of the Messiah which would fulfill the Law and the Prophets. It furnishes to us a striking proof of the unity of the Old and New Testaments, for personal immortality, and the mysterious intercommunion of the visible and invisible worlds.
Both meet in Jesus Christ; he is the connecting link between the Old and New Testaments, between heaven and earth, between the kingdom of grace and the kingdom of glory. It is very significant that at the end of the scene the disciples saw no man save Jesus alive. Moses and Elijah, the law and the prophets – types and shadows – passed on to a better way. The gospel, the fulfillment, the substance of Jesus remains–the only one who can lead us to God.
Admonition to Religious Leaders
May all of the LDS men who call them-selves “Prophets or Apostles,” admit their place – as ecclesiastical leaders of a religious institution – and step down from the platforms upon which they stand, repent of the lofty positions they have put themselves in, and admit that Jesus is the only Prophet, Priest, Lord and King anyone on this earth ever needs to “guide us in these Latter-days.” Take down their pictures. Stop standing in their presence. And look with all your heart, might, mind, and strength to the cross! Praise the Lord. Alright, let’s go to the phones.
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HEY! We’ll see you next week here on Heart of the Matter. Gobble Gobble!
