Mother in Heaven

Live from Salt Lake City, Utah, this is heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. where we do all we can to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.

Show 28 505
Mother in Heaven
July 12h 2016
Our prayer tonight will be given by

How about a moment from The Word?

(Run from the Word OPENER here)

Islam and Christianity

For I Will Make Him a Great Nation

As a Christian I have long looked at Islam as an evil empire, one the stands in opposition to the faith I hold dear. Years ago on a business trip to Sri Lanka I became acquainted with an Islamic family, even went to their home to read and sit with the elders of the community. They had children they loved, foods they cooked, laughter, games and along with a kind sense of humor a deep and abiding faith in Allah. The walls began to break down.

On September 11th 2001 I woke up and watched on live television as the second airliner plunged into the second tower of the World Trade Center and I experienced a reemergence of many of my old feelings about the Islamic faith. “Only an evil religion full of evil people could do such a thing.” But I could not help but remember the times I shared with the Muslim family in Southeast Asia and how there was a palpable difference between them and some other more militant Muslims I engaged with on the same trip.

Looking around, we see the same thing coming out of every organized faith – good people and bad. Admittedly none are good in the sense of being without sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace., but there are those who seek God in spirit and in truth and those who use Him as a means to do evil – Muslims and Christians alike. Do Muslims accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, the author and finisher of the faith? Not yet. But those of the faith who love God will. But here is something we must admit as Christians – they, as a people, as a nation, are the product of . . . God.

The Genesis of Islam

All the way back in Genesis we read of Islamic origins. Abraham, the Father of the Faith for Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike, took Hagar, the handmaid of his wife Sarah, and formed his first son of the flesh – Ishmael. Once Isaac, the son of promise was born, and friction occurred between Sarah and Hagar, Abraham sent Hagar and her son Ishmael into the desert of Beersheba where they appear to have reached a point where Hagar thought they were going to die. But this is what we read happening:

Genesis 21:15-20
And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept. And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.

Here we discover the genesis of the Nation of Islam – those who came through the loins of Ishmael instead of Isaac. We cannot forget that God, in His wisdom and in His love said: “For I will make him a great nation.”

There are those who are fanatical and bent on the destruction of Christians around the world. They are relentless and evil. But there are Christians who are bent on the destruction of Muslims. Same spirit. Faith in God does NOT include geopolitical positioning. It is a love for God who is love. We trust that every knee will bow and that every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. But for those who will not do this in this life, God loves them still, has

Exploring Faith and Beliefs

True Christians, true joint heirs with Christ, must come to terms with the fact that God is love, and because we are adopted into His family by faith here, His purposes are not completely seen or known or understood by us and we therefore have no right to condescend people who love and seek God but are of other faiths. Islam included.

Seven Criteria

Jim is a Calvinist post trib Trinitarian who believes baptism is necessary to salvation. Jane is an arminianist pr-trib modalist who sees spiritual gifts like tongues as vital to spiritual rebirth. Mike is a binitarian preterist who insists on the importance of weekly communion and heavy handed worship services.

Is there a BEST combination of beliefs out there and if so how do we determine this?

I have been presented with all many of views and doctrines in the faith. From Mormonism to Calvary Chapel and futurismThe belief that end-times prophecies are still future—TGNN teaches they were fulfilled in 70 A.D. More, to a moment in Calvinism to partial then full-preterism, I’ve rambled about all of it. Over the past five years or so I have come to discover some views (which I see as being completely supported by scripture) that are at odds with a great deal of orthodoxy.

One of the main views has to do with the purpose and place of the Bible, who it was written to and why, and its place in our world today. Does this view (and others) contribute to my collection of beliefs as being best or does it hurt? Again, how can we tell?

Searching for the Best Belief Combination

Many Christians will say, “the best combination of beliefs are the combinations that are true,” but that does NOTHING to answer our question, which collection can be determined to be the best because we all have differences of opinion on what is true and what is not so again, how can a tell – ratify, see and prove – which combination of stances are superior to any and or all others?

Is it better to embrace myths and fables to foster peace and happiness or to accept the truth and run the risk of becoming bitter and empty? Is there a middle ground where we can ardently pursue the truth but stop when we become embittered by them?

Evaluating Doctrines and Beliefs

I have laid out (side by side) as many of the doctrinal and theological postulations that I can and have examined them. And in my opinion we have some criteria on how to determine their real value:

1. First, “Can the doctrine or practice, within reason, be supported through a contextual beginning to end study of the Word of God?” I say reasonable to avoid dogmatism. I say supported so that the idea is not just alluded to.

2. Two, does the belief or practice lend to greater or lesser faith and trust in God and Christ. This is a very subjective question because only the individual can answer this.

3. Three, does the doctrine or practice lend to greater or lesser love for God and Man? (with love being defined biblically) This criterion can be measured and seen by others but it is also known by the individual believer.

4. Four, have we actually and practically seen ourselves grow in true faith and agape loveSelfless love marked by patience, mercy, and humility—central to living in spiritual liberty. as a result of embracing whatever particular belief or practice that is being examined? So faith and love are not just present but they are growing in the person.

5. Fifth, does this particular stance glorify God less or more? Does it lend more and more to Him and His ways or step further and further away from Him being the focus.

6. Sixth, does this particular view or practice create a heart of greater humility in us or one of greater arrogance? Are we more grateful to Jesus or less? Are we less judgmental or more? Bottom line are we becoming more like Jesus or less? And finally (and Seventh),

7. Does the view or practice do more to liberate us and our life or does it serve to put us into greater earthly and/or human bondage? I don’t care what it is – is it creating bondage?

So then we take Mormonism and Catholicism and Lutherans and Southern Baptists, and Arminianists, and all the rest, and we compare their doctrines and practices and ask how they stand up under these seven areas of inspection.

I have discovered that when it comes all I have personally embraced and accepted, verses all that they teach and endorse, the combination

Mother in Heaven

of my views stand better Under these seven queries than any other system out there. I can only speak for myself. My views may not create the same results for those who fully embrace Mormonism, for example. And in this we can again see how subjective the faith is, and how responsible each individual is for the things they embrace in their journey for Christ.

In speaking of the pre-mortal existence we really can’t leave the subject unless we address the topic of heavenly mother. Heavenly who? Heavenly Mother. Remember in our discussing God a number of months ago that the LDS believe that God has a father who has a father who has a father and this is known as “an eternal regression of Gods?” Well, part of the eternal regression is that each God has a wife (or wives) by whom they populate the worlds with their spirit children and this wife is known as Heavenly Mother.

The origins of the doctrine within Mormonism can be traced back to founder Joseph Smith but the teaching did not become widely known until after Smith's death in 1844. Today the LDS admit to a belief in a heavenly mother and this belief is consistent with the way they see God as having a body of flesh and bone. Because he was once a man who reached his exaltation through obedience to the Laws and Ordinances of the Mormon Gospel, (which includes having been sealed for time and all eternity to his wife and the two of them remaining faithful to their sacred covenants) it only makes sense that God would have the wife he was faithfully sealed to by his side, reigning over the worlds they have created and populated with Spirit children.

It goes without saying that this perspective is very unique to Mormonism and it is definitely part of their modern belief system. What’s unusual about it though is it is only a subject that is randomly referenced or touched upon in the day-to-day workings of the faith, as if the subject was agreed upon but not readily admitted – even among members. So where heavenly Father is readily and constantly talked about, heavenly mother and heavenly parents are much less mentioned – if at all.

The Teachings of Joseph Smith

What makes this especially intriguing is the readiness with which the subject is admitted to be true. I mean even in their Hymns they sing of heavenly mother – so it’s not like it’s not admitted.

It was in 1844 that founder Joseph Smith, at that point in the throes of taking on as many wives as he could, outlined a controversial view of God that differed dramatically from traditional Christian consensus. Among other things it was here that Smith taught the belief that God would share his glory with his children and that righteous couples might become exalted beings, “or gods and goddesses,” in the afterlife. There is really no known record of Smith explicitly teaching about heavenly Mother but several of Smith's contemporaries attributed the theology to him either directly or she became known as a natural consequence of his theological stance. I have found this to have happened in many cases with Smith – he produced the seed but future LDS leaders planted and watered and grew it into doctrine.

Nevertheless, there is an editorial footnote in History of the Church 5:254 that quotes Smith as saying: "Come to me; here's the mysteries man hath not seen, Here's our Father in heaven, and Mother, the Queen." In addition, a secondhand account states that in 1839, Smith had told Zina Diantha Huntington (a woman he took to wife) that after the death of her mother, that "not only would she know her mother again on the other side, but 'more than that, you will meet and become acquainted with your eternal Mother, the wife of your Father in Heaven.”

References in LDS Hymns

After the death of Smith in 1845 the LDS poet Eliza R. Snow, whom many LDS at the time considered a prophetess, published a poem entitled "My Father in Heaven.” The contents were used in the LDS hymn still sung today known as O My Father where they sing:

In the heavens are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare.
Truth is reason: truth eternal
tells me I've a mother there.

When I leave this frail existence,
When I lay this mortal by,
Father, Mother, may I meet you
in your royal courts on high

Erastus Snow, an early Mormon apostle, wrote "'do you mean we should understand that Deity consists

The Doctrine of Heavenly Mother in LDS Belief

"Of a man and woman?" Most certainly I do. If I believe anything that God has ever said about himself… I must believe that deity consists of a man and woman." This notion was reaffirmed by later church leaders Hugh B. Brown, James E. Talmage, Melvin J. Ballard, and Bruce R. McConkie. The LDS Church did not formally acknowledge the existence of a heavenly Mother until 1909, in a statement on the "origin of man" by the First Presidency on the 50th anniversary of Charles Darwin's Origin of Species. The church also later inferred the theology in the 1995 statement "The Family: A Proclamation to the World", where the church officially stated that each person is a "spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents." In 2015, an official essay was published on the church website which surveyed 171 years of statements about a Mother in Heaven and confirmed that it is part of church doctrine.

Brigham Young, who taught Adam is Heavenly Father, taught that his wife Eve is heavenly Mother: "I tell you more, Adam is the father of our spirits… [O]ur spirits and the spirits of all the heavenly family were begotten by Adam, and born of Eve. … I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve." (Since the LDS Church has formally denounced the Adam–God doctrine as taught by Young since the 1970s, today this statement is doctrinal only to certain groups of Mormon fundamentalists.) Young also preached that resurrected "eternal mothers" would "be prepared to frame earths like unto ours."

Cultural Impact on Women's Role in the Church

Early 20th-century church leader B. H. Roberts pointed out that the heavenly Mother doctrine presents a "conception of the nobility of women and of motherhood and of wife-hood—placing her side by side with the Divine Father." Apostle John A. Widtsoe, a contemporary of Roberts, wrote that the afterlife "is given radiant warmth by the thought that… [we have] a mother who possesses the attributes of Godhood." In 1894, Juvenile Instructor, an official publication of the LDS Church, published a hymn entitled "Our Mother in Heaven." In 1960, an LDS seminary teacher published in a Mormon encyclopedia that "the name of our Mother in Heaven has been withheld" because of the way God the Father's and Jesus Christ's names have been profaned.

A Wikipedia article says: "While no General Authority has made an official statement denying belief in a Heavenly Mother nor stating that her existence is too sacred to discuss, several factors may influence the current trend that sees even a mention of Heavenly Mother as treading on forbidden ground.” In a speech given at BYU in 2010, Glenn L. Pace, a member of the LDS Church's First Quorum of the Seventy, said, "Sisters, I testify that when you stand in front of your heavenly parents in those royal courts on high and look into Her eyes and behold Her countenance, any question you ever had about the role of women in the kingdom will evaporate into the rich celestial air, because at that moment you will see standing directly in front of you, your divine nature and destiny."

The Status Quo and Feminist Perspectives

So what has all of this amounted to? Since LDS members take their cues about what is acceptable doctrine to talk about from the talks of General Authorities and official church manuals and magazines and Mother in Heaven is rarely mentioned they rarely mention her. But some are not willing to live by the vague cues of the brethren and as could be expected a handful of women feminists have pushed the envelope regarding Mother in Heaven – and started praying to her. Lynne Whitesides, Maxine Hanks, Janice Allred, and Margaret Toscano, were all disciplined (in part) for statements related to the heavenly Mother and one BYU professor was fired for publicly doing the same (among other things).

What this said to the LDS member is they do not have the right to cross that unwritten line and that open and actual discourse with or about Mother in Heaven is still anathema. Nevertheless, she exists in their hearts, is out there looming and in a way she, in my opinion, represents women in the Church up through much of their history – they are there and included and present but still very much in the background – serving their husbands in their material needs and wants – but not really having a voice outside of that realm.

Mormonism and Humanism

is just my opinion of things – but I am convinced that Mormonism is based on humanism, and that in the end, the humanist elements of humanity will prevail and find a home within their ranks. To me, the end result is we will see Mormonism ultimately encouraging all lifestyles and beliefs that are thriving in the hearts of Man. It is my opinion that Mother in Heaven will be one of these topics that will take a major role in Mormonism in the future. When it comes to Christianity, the only real source of practice or belief that ties into the LDS view of a Mother in Heaven comes either from paganism and/or the Origin of Mary Worship – both having ties to this notion of a Queen in Heaven.

Historical Context of Mother Worship

Centuries before Christ appeared as the Son of Mary, pictures of Mother and Child in pagan Babylon were around and were worshipped. From here and in almost all the devotional books of the Roman Catholic Church, Mary, the mother of God is crowned, sceptred and enthroned as the Queen of heaven. In 1854, according to Catholic History, she has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth, but this was not made official until 1954 by Pius XII. But well before the Catholics, this idolatry has its root in ancient mythology. Namely,

• Astarte of the Assyrians
• Ashtoreth of the Sidonians
• Bowaney of the Hindoos
• Greece had her Venus
• Rome her Juno.
• The Diana of the Ephesians was a female, from whose body in every part there seemed to be issuing all the various animals of creation, symbolizing the conception and creation of all things.
• The Egyptians had theirs
• and the Etrurians had Isis

All of these versions of Mother of God were warned against by Jeremiah who describes the Jews that had rebelled against God “making cakes to ‘the queen of heaven.’”

Warnings from the Prophet Jeremiah

This is what we read God saying through the Prophet Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. 17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? 20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.”

Later in Jeremiah 44 we read God say:

7 Therefore now thus saith the LORD, the God of hosts, the God of Israel; Wherefore commit ye this great evil against your souls, to cut off from you man and woman, child and suckling, out of Judah, to leave you none to remain; 8 In that ye provoke me unto wrath with the works of your hands, burning incense unto other gods in the land of Egypt, whither ye be gone to dwell, that ye might cut yourselves off, and that ye might be a curse and a reproach among all the nations of the earth?

Apparently, these cakes were made of honey, fine flour in a round flat shape to resemble the disc of the moon to which they were offered. Other translations interpret this as "the frame of heaven," instead of the “Queen of Heaven” meaning the planets generally, but it is through the Septuagint translation where we get the "queen of heaven."

The Phoenicians called the moon Ashtoreth or Astarte the Queen of Heaven who was the wife of Baal or Moloch, “the king of heaven.” The male and female pair of deities symbolized the generative powers of nature; hence arose the introduction of prostitution in the worship. Apparently, every “Monday,” relates back to “Moon-day,” showing a connection to the worship of this Queen in some way or another. In my estimation all of this Mother in Heaven stuff, Queen of Heaven, Mariology, Ashterth etc., is just another means to get human beings to take their eyes off the one single true and living God and to get us to include or look to others.

Pre-Mortal Existence from the LDS and Traditional Views

We’ve talked about the make-up of God the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Satan, souls, spirits and Mothers or Queens of Heaven. Next week we will bring it all down to earth and begin our discussion on creation and then Man.

Let’s open the phone lines.

(801) 9

And while the operators are clearing your calls take a look at this! SHOW SPOT HERE

Lesson from a Conversion Experience

EMAILS

From: Cindy Hieronymi
Subject: Conversion
Message Body:
I was an active LDS for 33 yrs. Never knowing very much about deeper doctrine and history until about 5 yrs. ago when Internet info was found by accident. I became addicted to trying to find truth and I did. I also found out I had a "sister wife" in the eternities due to only a clearance done before my husband was sealed to me after he was divorced. I was told he'd cancelled it, even my Bishop didn't tell me. Your show, Mormon Stories and etc. opened my eyes and I have found the true Jesus and am completely born again, washed in the blood and my heart totally changed and filled with the Spirit.

My Christian family has been praying for me for 33 yrs.to see the Light. Thank God they never stopped. Thankyou for your show and Bible Teachings verse by verseTGNN’s Bible teaching series—book-by-book, through the lens of fulfillment and spiritual liberty.. I watch daily on YouTube since I live in the Atlanta area. This email is important because it shows that in reaching our LDS friends that God works slowly and tenaciously. Her family prayed for 33 years for her to see the light – and she has.

Pray for those in bondage. Love those in bondage. Wait on the Lord. Don’t fight them.

A Thought-Provoking Perspective from Jon Foreman

Our friend Kev sent this in.

It’s an article from a man named Jon Foreman who is with a Christian band called Switchfoot. He was asked “if Switchfoot is a Christian Band” to which he gave a fantastic reply, saying:

“To be honest, this question grieves me because I feel that it represents a much bigger issue than simply a couple SF tunes. In true Socratic form, let me ask you a few questions: Does Lewis or Tolkien mention Christ in any of their fictional series? Are Bach’s sonata’s Christian? What is more Christ-like, feeding the poor, making furniture, cleaning bathrooms, or painting a sunset? There is a schism between the sacred and the secular in all of our modern minds.

The view that a pastor is more ‘Christian’ than a girls volleyball coach is flawed and heretical. The stance that a worship leader is more spiritual than a janitor is condescending and flawed. These different callings and purposes further demonstrate God’s sovereignty.

Many songs are worthy of being written. Switchfoot will write some, Keith Green, Bach, and perhaps yourself have written others. Some of these songs are about redemption, others about the sunrise, others about nothing in particular: written for the simple joy of music.

None of these songs has been born again, and to that end there is no such thing as Christian music. No. Christ didn’t come and die for my songs, he came for me. Yes. My songs are a part of my life. But judging from scripture I can only conclude that our God is much more interested in how I treat the poor and the broken and the hungry than the personal pronouns I use when I sing. I am a believer. Many of these songs talk about this belief. An obligation to say this or do that does not sound like the glorious freedom that Christ died to afford me.

I do have an obligation, however, a debt that cannot be settled by my lyrical decisions. My life will be judged by my obedience, not my ability to confine my lyrics to this box or that.

Conclusion on Individual Callings

We all have a different calling; Switchfoot is trying to be obedient to who we are called to be. We’re not trying to be Audio A or U2 or POD or Bach: we’re trying to be Switchfoot. You see, a song that has the words: ‘Jesus Christ’ is no more or less ‘Christian’ than an instrumental piece. (I’ve heard lots of people say Jesus Christ and they weren’t talking about their redeemer.) You see, Jesus didn’t die for any of my tunes. So there is no hierarchy of life or songs or occupation only obedience. We have a call to take up our cross and follow. We can be sure that these roads will be different for all of us. Just as you have.

Insights on Religious Perspectives

One body and every part has a different function, so in Christ we who are many form one body and each of us belongs to all the others. Please be slow to judge ‘brothers’ who have a different calling.”

-Jon Foreman

From: Ted Rowland

Hey Shawn!!

I have watched many of your programs on Mormonism and it really opened my eyes to it. I was one of those ignorant Christians who thought they were Christians too. Anyway, the purpose of my email is to let you know the response I have gotten from 8 Mormons so far on Twitter. He had a message about how he was sorry for the tragedy in Dallas. I said basically good..but have you been born again? You need to break free of Mormonism. The response is basically what you said would happen. They say they don't believe works save. They are Christian. The Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus etc. I would be interested in your response to this. Keep going strong there in your ministry.

Experiences Within the LDS Church

From: Willard Cook

Hi Shawn

I have been active in the LDS church for nearly 30 years. I teach the High Priest in my ward. However, I have battled with teaching the High Priest since I have been put in this position. I try and teach the true gospel of Christ found in the Bible. 6-7 years ago I began compiling information on Polygamy, Blacks in the Priesthood, Adam God-Doctrine and Blood Atonement as well as other topics. I became Born Again 3.5 years ago after taking the K-LUV challenge and listening to Christian Rock for a 30-day period. Love the topics you bring up. All of which I found to be completely accurate. Unfortunately, most active LDS members have been conditioned or indoctrinated to believe a lot of the garbage the LDS leaders push out. Unfortunately, they draw a protective shield around them as soon as any doctrine that is unfavorable is presented.

Please keep educating those who will listen. You are giving many God and Christ who may have no idea of the True Christ that is taught in the Bible. I do believe the Book of Mormon can bring people to Christ, primarily because as I believe it was partly compiled from the Bible itself as well as the Apocrypha and View of the Hebrews at least in part. As you know Joseph had 4 years to compile the book. God Bless You and your efforts. Keep up the faith in God.

#1

From: Tim

Subject: religious matters

Message Body:

Dear Shawn,

I have been listening to your show since 2008 and I have found it very informative. I admire the amount of research you do and how God has used you to lead people out of Mormonism. That being said I have concerns over your teachings lately. I have listened to what you have said about Christian subjectivism. It would be nice if we could just pray over a situation and make the kind of decisions you seem to be addressing, however, I do not believe this is always the case and here's why. Satan has the ability to imitate "good feelings" I will give you a case in point. We had a married lady in our church that I will name Mary Smith for sake of privacy. She seemed to have the personality of a joyful Christian when she was at church. However, all of her friends outside of church seemed to be worldly. She would do the habits of the world. One new year's night she went out to celebrate the new year. She wound up driving a man to her house (her husband was 650 miles downstate on the coast working). and having an affair with him. Somehow an argument ensued, over what will forever remain a mystery, and he wound up strangling her to death. I think that she personally felt that she was ready to meet God. I would like to believe that she is in heaven but I have my doubts. It does seem to me that the "Christian subjectivism" you have been teaching may give people an excuse to look upon one or two instances in their life when they have felt the presence of God and assume that they are saved, when they really have not had a personal relationship with God. Satan can imitate feelings for those who want to be fooled.

P.S. Do not get me wrong. I hope when I get to heaven, I will be pleasantly surprised to see her there. but my inclinations are…

Communication Regarding a Tragic Situation

to think otherwise.

Inquiry about Mary Smith

#2
Hey Tim. First, major apologies for only now getting back to you and thanks for writing. My question to you is: What do you think should have been done in the instance of Mary Smith?

Thanks and God bless,
Shawn

Reflection on Mary Smith's Situation

#3
Hey Shawn,

First, thank you for getting back to me. I realize you are very busy. As for Mary Smith, I personally did not know what was going on until the tragedy happened. This would probably be the case most of the time. All we can do is pray that no person gets caught up in that situation. I am not so confident about her salvation as you seemed to be. This grieves me even to this day because I liked her as a friend. I believe the closer a person gets to God, he or she should desire what God desires and have a healthy hatred for sin. I believe that freedom in Christ means freedom from sin. I do believe that god is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and if we do sin we have an advocate with the father. I just hope she was able to get things right with the Lord before she was killed.

Sincerely,
Tim