About This Video
Shawn McCraney invites people, especially those from Calvary Chapels, to attend a special event in September featuring Don K. Preston, a leading expert in Preterist eschatology, to critically discuss and challenge the widely accepted futurist view of end-times theology. By addressing and questioning the prevalent teachings on Jesus’ Second Coming, Shawn aims to foster a deeper understanding of biblical eschatology and encourage a liberated relationship with God, countering the fear-driven narratives of imminent destruction.
In an exploration of Christian theology, Shawn emphasizes that differing doctrinal interpretations should not divide believers, advocating for a focus on faith and love according to 1st Corinthians 13. He argues for openness to various theological views beyond systematic theology such as Calvinism or Arminianism, stressing that the essence of spiritual teachings is to nurture the soul through love and the Word of God, as cited in John 6:63.
Shawn's teaching emphasizes that while the doctrines of Moses focused on physical sustenance, Jesus' words are spiritual and eternal, and the true essence of belief should be understood through the spirit rather than the flesh. He clarifies that the New Covenant is fulfilled through an inner spiritual transformation, written in our hearts and minds, and the essence of living in God's Spirit is embodied in love.
Shawn encourages sharing personal experiences over doctrinal debates to foster conversions, suggesting that real-life testimonies can have more impact than discussing theological concepts such as grace, works, or historical issues like the Salamander letters. He also emphasizes open dialogue and truth-seeking as essential for personal growth and understanding, highlighting how engaging with diverse theological perspectives, such as preterism or dispensationalism, can broaden one's views.
Catching Our Breath
Live from Salt Lake City, Utah, this is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology., where we do all we can to try and worship God in Spirit and in Truth. And I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.
Show 23 449
Catching Our Breath
June 9th 2015
It’s summer time in Salt Lake City and time to catch our breath, so we’re gonna do this tonight by catching up on emails, taking calls and commentary, making a really exciting announcement and talking about the past five weeks with our Brother Matt Slick.
Special Taping Announcement
But first…
Get your calendars out! Turn them forward to September and, with a red marker, block out Friday evening, September 11th, and Saturday morning, September 12th, for a special taping of Heart of the Matter. Why will it be so special? We are going to have a very special guest named Don Preston with us.
Who is Don K. Preston?
He was a pastor for 16 years at the Ardmore Family of God and is now president of the Preterist Research Institute, a non-profit institute dedicated to the positive proclamation of the good news which includes the fact that we are not in the last daysThe final years of the old covenant age—fulfilled in the first century, not future end times., and the world is not just about to end. In other words, Don is one of the world's foremost experts on PreterismThe belief that all biblical prophecy—especially “end times”—was fulfilled by 70 A.D. More, and having him here will truly bless seekers of God in Spirit and in Truth. Don has formally engaged in debate with some of the leading evangelicals of the day, including James Jordan, Joel McDurmon, C. Marvin Pate, David Englesma, Harold Hoehner, Randall Price, Thomas Ice, and others. I’ve heard some of the more argumentative and popular apologists around today fear him and will not debate him.
He’s the co-host with William Bell of Memphis, Tn., of a popular Internet radio program called, “Two Guys and the Bible,” which airs each Tuesday evening at 6 PM central time at www.fulfilledradio.com. He also owns three websites: www.eschatology.org, www.bibleprophecy.com, and www.donkpreston.com. He’s the author of a number of books on preterist (or fulfilled) eschatologyStudy of “last things”—TGNN teaches all biblical eschatology was fulfilled in 70 A.D. More. These include: "We Shall Meet Him In The Air: The Wedding of the King of kings," "Who Is This Babylon," and "AD 70: A Shadow of the “Real” End?”
I want to publicly invite any and all, but especially Calvary Chapel people to attend — especially the Pastors of Calvary Chapels in this State. Why them? Because they push the futurist view more than most, and their congregants are the most ardent defenders of futurismThe belief that end-times prophecies are still future—TGNN teaches they were fulfilled in 70 A.D. More. Now listen – they have that right and are certainly followers of the King. So why do this?
Importance of Addressing End-Times
First, I believe that end-times is a subject that has been pushed out and manipulated by the masses for decades – to the point that good people mindlessly – I mean mindlessly – embrace futurism as a fact. We speak of Mormons mindlessly accepting what they are taught; well, many Christians – in this area – are no different. Secondly, the topic of Jesus' second comingChrist’s return, fulfilled in 70 A.D., ending the old covenant—not the world. has served to make this beautiful, reasonable, wonderful faith of ours appear so ridiculously fanatical. I mean, people are actually praying that Jesus will come and destroy the rest of the world! If we can do something to put a lid on this, we’re doing good (in my estimation).
But the single most important reason why the topic of Jesus' Second Coming needs to be addressed is because the LDS have also embraced the futurist teaching too. It's really what the church was built on – a millenialist view of Jesus' imminent return. Listen – if the Only True Church on the face of the earth, with a living prophet, can be proven wrong on this stance – a stance they have built their religion on since Joseph Smith founded it – we will go a LONG, LONG way in putting a definitive dent in their armor and bringing people out in droves and into a liberated relationship with the Lord.
STAY WITH ME – in order for us to be in a position to do this, the Christian church – the Body – especially the pastors and prognosticators who are constantly screaming that the end is near have to “wake the truck up” and see the Bible as a history book with tremendous spiritual lessons for the reader today. So this is a challenge – an open challenge – come to this event with questions and listen. Bring your criticisms! Bring your questions and doubts! Ask them of one of the world's experts in the field of eschatology and hear what the Bible really says on the matter. More than ANY other topic debated in the realm…
The Topic of Jesus' Second Coming
The topic of Jesus' Second Coming needs to be thoroughly eviscerated so we can start getting rid of the rhetoric and get to the heart of the matter.
Join us – challenge your views and what you have been taught. Look into another way of understanding the Word rather than clinging to the crazy.
That’s Dr. Don K Preston here in the HOTM Studios in Salt Lake City, Friday, September 11th and Saturday, September 12th. Speaking of debated topics in the Body of Christ today…
Reflections on Recent Discussions
Last week we finished our five-part series with Brother Matt Slick. His visit and presentations have generated a lot of discussion among viewers of this show and even people who tuned in to just see what was going on. Matt is obviously a very intelligent man and we can all learn a lot from his observations. Above all things – all things – Matt and his wife are family in Christ. He and I had a few moments together where we got a little ruffled with each other and that is expected when two strong personalities get to talking. But I embrace both Matt and all of his thoughts and teachings as acceptable and allowable – why? Because he believes Jesus is I Am, the author and finisher of our faith, the only way to the Father and that we are saved by grace through faith. Anyone who lays claim to these things is a Christian in my book – anyone.
Of course, I differ with Matt on some of his definitional points and ideas relative to biblical interpretation, but I differ with most people on almost everything when it comes to the faith, so where does that leave me? Matt must be respected for his God-given abilities, for his honing of those abilities, and the truths He does share. By having Matt on the show I wanted to try and illustrate that no matter how well rehearsed a person is in presentations of systematic theology, there ARE other views that can and will thrive outside the most cohesive models offered.
Embracing Doctrinal Differences with Love
In other words, I do not believe for a second, in the face of all the passages that support or counter Calvinism, Arminianism, Restorationism, or Reconciliationism, that human beings have the ability to capture God, His love, His ways, His mind, or His view of things completely. If this is true – if none of us understand all of Him and His ways, then in my opinion, the ONLY response believers have to each other's doctrines and dogmas and divisions is to set them aside, and preach and endorse faith… and love.
If we don’t embrace this approach we – LISTEN CLEARLY – IF WE DON’T approach each other in this way we will all become Pharisees and Sadducees – embroiled over jots and tittles and divisions rather than being united by love. I hope that the exercise Matt and I engaged in will serve to show that while two people can differ so radically on almost every disputable point of doctrine, we can part ways amicably and hopefully as brothers in the Lord. The Heart of the Matter is love AS defined by 1st Corinthians 13. The Heart of the Matter is love. And with that, how about a moment from the word?
Insights from the Word
Boy, it’s been a while since we’ve done a “From The Word” and quite frankly, I miss it. The busier I get and the more time I find myself out of the word I sense, in an odd sort of way, a loss within myself. His Word is living. It is Spirit. That’s sort of an odd thing to say, isn’t it? His Word is Spirit?
Jesus says something interesting in John 6:63. He says: “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” These words have been understood in different ways. Simply put, I take these words to mean: "My doctrine is spiritual; it quickens and nourishes the soul. The Words I say (and therefore the words we read) are from heaven. They quicken or give life – real life – everlasting life. “The flesh” (and all that pertains to it – in the King James, “profit nothing”) “but the words that I speak originate from heaven, they are SPIRIT (not letter) and they are life.”
Emerging out of the Old Testament, the scribes and scholars and ruling class of educated men cited verse and the Law. They placed great value on these teachings.
Understanding the Spiritual Teachings of Jesus
On the doctrines and ways of Moses which were literally applied and focused on the physical – that which fed the body – but it didn’t permanently profit them – “look at your fathers,” Jesus says, “they are dead!”
But in opposition to this are His Words – they are Spirit which carries on eternally and really lives – and NOT flesh or of the flesh – which is temporary and will die. I take these words of Jesus to mean that since the words are spirit they are not to be understood in a carnal sense but only by the spirit.
The Teachings of Jesus
Jesus had just said a few verses before:
John 6:54 "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
This teaching really tweaked those who heard it and some came to Him and said: “These are hard sayings.” So hard, in fact, that most walked away from following Jesus at this point. But it is in verse 63 that He makes His teachings clear and so relative to teaching that they had to eat his flesh and drink His blood He explains:
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
He has commanded them to eat His flesh and drink His blood but then explains clearly: The FLESH profiteth NOTHING (but instead) the words that I speak unto you THEY are spirit and THEY are life.
The Spirit Versus the Letter of the Law
Paul wrote in 2nd Corinthians 3:6, speaking of God said: “Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” The LETTER killeth. It becomes law. It demands. It divides believers. This ought not be so. His Word is Spirit. It is life.
I want you to take note – when Paul wrote this and said: “God also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” There was no New Testament like we have a New Testament. IT was ALL spirit. It was all by and through the Spirit. Afterward, what we formally call the New Testament (the compilation of letters and gospels) came together and some 1500 years later was available to the masses but in my estimation, the writings of the Apostles are not the real New Testament or New Covenant.
The New Covenant
What is? All the way back in Jeremiah 31:31 we read: “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.”
And then Hebrews 8:10-12 explains it, saying:
10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."
Get it? The New Covenant is written in our minds and in our hearts. That is where the Spirit reigns and lives and thrives – not in the letter. Cite the letter, quote the letters, use the letters as a club and you miss the mark. His Words are Spirit and His Words are Life. And the Life in God can be summarized in one word – LOVE.
And with that how about a word of prayer.
PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER
Dear Shawn,
A few years ago I used to watch some of the Heart of the Matter videos on YouTube. I just recently returned from serving a mission in Virginia. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. But now I can say that the LDS church is definitely true. I had enough spiritual experiences on my mission to prove to me that it is true, and no presentation of archaeological evidence or anything else, save more spiritual experiences from God, could persuade me otherwise. (He then quotes 1st Corinthians 2) about the natural man not discerning the things of God).
Then adds:
Because science, history, and archaeology are still interesting to me I will still continue to study them in regards to religion. I was wondering if you would mind sharing any spiritual experiences with me.
Sharing Personal Experiences in Faith Conversations
me that you had when you were deciding to leave the Mormon church? I think you would have a higher conversion rate if you relied more on sharing those experiences with other people, rather than talking about works and grace, and bringing up the Salamander letters over and over again.
All the best,
Brett R.
Missionary Reflections
FROM A MISSIONARY OUT IN THE FIELD
N.S.
I have 5 weeks left on my Mission and have spent a lot of it reading the Bible. I’ve been trying to finish the Book of Mormon to get that testimony. But things that I struggle with are believing in the flood as a form of baptism etc. But I struggle to believe there is another "true church". Maybe if you could give me some things to study so I can see where exactly you are coming from.
The Importance of Dialogue
Chet F writes (and Clint who also wrote concurred):
Brother Shawn,
Please, consider, if you haven’t already, to having a series dialogue/debate with Matt Slick on the topic of the (trinity). This would be very imperative for the Body to view. Thanks! I love your show. It’s impacted my views to a slight degree. I’m a future dispensationalist but your preterist interpretations have gotten me to reevaluate my position. I’m a truth seeker seeking for truth no matter how it hurts. Thanks again. God bless in the God and Father of our lord Jesus Christ.
