Faith without religion.
The Mystery of the Lake of Fire: Unraveling Revelation
Resurrection, Hell, Lake of Fire
In this engaging discussion, Shawn and Delaney delve into the complexities of 1 Corinthians chapter 15, focusing on the significance of Jesus’s resurrection and the concept of hell. Delaney highlights the importance of Jesus returning with his physical body, complete with the marks of crucifixion, as a testament to his resurrection. This physical return is crucial in understanding the concept of resurrection and its implications for believers.
The conversation shifts to the topic of hell and its traditional interpretation as an eternal place of punishment. Shawn challenges this notion, suggesting that the idea of eternal hell is more rooted in tradition than in scriptural evidence. He explains that the Greek texts often refer to hell as “age-abiding” rather than eternal, indicating a temporary state relative to a specific age. Shawn also discusses the historical and cultural context of Gehenna, a place outside Jerusalem associated with perpetual fire and sacrifice, which was later translated as “hell” in the King James Bible.
The discussion further explores the concept of the Lake of Fire, traditionally seen as a place of eternal punishment for Satan and his angels. Shawn suggests that this could be a metaphorical representation of God’s purifying presence, rather than a literal place of torment. He posits that the Lake of Fire might serve as a purging process for those outside the New Jerusalem, aligning with the idea of God as a consuming fire.
Throughout the conversation, Shawn emphasizes the importance of re-evaluating traditional beliefs in light of scriptural study and understanding. The dialogue encourages listeners to consider the broader implications of resurrection, judgment, and the afterlife, challenging conventional interpretations and inviting deeper reflection on these theological concepts.
Podcast Transcript:
we’re back yeah and this is part two of
uh uh 1 Corinthians chapter 15 Delaney
brought up something um and that you
said and another reason that it was good
news for is that that was right then
when he died only 3 days later he came
forward with his body right so if he
came forward as a ghost yeah without his
body yeah the whole everybody says just
a ghost he didn’t do anything different
we’ve all seen ghosts because they
believe in ghosts big time then wow so
he had to come back with the body that
he would died in that includes the
prince of the nails so that is a major
reason why Jesus came back with his body
and that’s going to play into our
discussion about Resurrection as we go
along okay it makes a lot of I mentioned
in between these episodes that this
makes sense and on this podcast doing
this I’ve come to realize the point of
Jesus but it’s taken this effort even
though I’ve heard it my whole life I’ve
taken this study for me to understand it
cuz if you tell someone
today Jesus died died and resurrected
which is what Paul says is the gospel
there’s no he lived there’s no context
it’s just Jesus died and was resurrected
you’re like why does me believing that
help me at all like it’s so abstract and
far away and I I’ve just had so much
trouble with that forever you’re such a
linear thinker you are like so what
which I think everyone is or not
everyone but the society in general is
like why that’s such a weird thing that
we have to do that yeah and they say why
would his death mean anything what does
that mean so what you know yeah and
there’s so much Hubb and spoke wrapped
into the resistance to that that it
fails in its delivery and there’s a
reason for that it’s not absolutely
correct there’s a better way that makes
so much sense um I had a couple
questions before we kept going on
that I don’t know
where first of all um
um I’m so confused that today there
isn’t more talk about the fact that hell
will be over no like
eternal hell even if it hasn’t been
fulfilled is not true no no it’s not
it’s going the hell that exists before
he comes back mhm is not Eternal no and
it the scripture makes that clear the
problem is we go by tradition we don’t
go by the facts that in itself is like
yeah why do you believe in hell yeah
like because Jesus said you’re going to
go well what okay so what but because I
don’t know this what are the two where
does the one come from and how do you
refute it with other verses okay that
hell about hell yeah hell being Eternal
okay
that one come from because there are
some words that are used in the Greek
that are uh like Jesus will say where
the worm Never Dies and the fire is
never quenched okay and so they take
that
literally and yet we don’t have one
passage from the Greek that says it’s
Eternal all we have is that it’s age
abiding it’s relative to their age that
it would exist
and the other thing is when you assign
eternality to afterlife
punishment the way to Best understand it
in my estimation and many others is that
the punishment is coming from the one
who’s
Eternal and so it’s Eternal punishment
it’s not that the punishment itself is
eternal but that the punishment you’re
getting in the Lake of Fire is eternal
it’s coming from him and that’s his fire
that’s doing it
so but if you do a study and I am so not
alone in this that’s the thing that
caused me to start to change is greater
Scholars than me they go through it all
and we have a book on it and it will
tell you it’s not Eternal in the literal
sense wow but lazy Christians sorry when
they read the scripture they’ll read
you’re going to go to where the fire
never ends and and so that’s one thing
the other thing is there was a place
outside of Jerusalem that was outside
the walls and they would throw all the
dead people and dead that didn’t have a
right burial and animals and all their
garbage into it was called the valley of
ham and there’s a myth it may be true
but that was the place where the Jews
actually sacrificed their children to
the god MCH in the valley of ham and it
there the fires burned day and night and
they threw their refu in there to be
consumed and and Yeshua when he would
talk about how are you going to escape
the
punishment of gehenna that’s where that
place was Val gehenna the King James
translators took gehenna and they put
hell my gosh so because they did that
people and then Jesus said where the
fire burns forever and ever okay now
when Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans
the the Jewish leaders who really
respected the burial process of really
being sacred and done in the right order
their bodies were cast into the valley
of ham so that’s what he was saying at
at the great destruction how are you
going to escape the Judgment of gehenna
but the translation turned it to hell
and so that in addition to Augustine who
loved the idea of his of wicked flesh
burning forever from the Catholic Church
instituted that idea and then it’s just
gone on and rolled forth and no one
wants to take a look at it in reality
and really do the work to see what it
really says that and finally The Book of
Revelation says hell G gives up its dead
it’s right there but they always say
well that hasn’t happened yet and then
they go through and say yeah once it
gives up it’s dead they’re judged and
the throne in the Lake of Fire which is
another version that they don’t really
understand or explain so that’s how Hell
got all of its legs and continues to be
perpetuated among people who just want
to believe that there’s this Burning
place that all evil people who don’t
believe in Jesus are going to go okay
and the Lake of
Fire
um like was a thing for the people then
it was a thing made for Satan and his
angels first made for that that’s who
it’s made for okay but there are people
that go there yeah and they take their
part in it okay which suggests it’s a
the purging brim could temp
I am convinced that if those people then
did that or if people today outside the
New Jerusalem want to go in they will
all experience that Lake of Fire which
is him why do I say that because
Revelation says that the Lord and his
angels is in the presence of the Lake of
Fire wow yeah it says that so we know
that it is a place that is for helping
to cure and amiliar disease and evil and
sin and not a place of
punishment you know and and we just read
it all wrong and
mercilessly yeah so yeah so the Lake of
Fire does exist in
fulfillment well it’s not the Lake of
Fire I see it as the actual Kingdom
itself because when it talks about the
Lake of Fire made for Satan and his
angels and the Lord and his angels are
present in it I think that is a place
that I just see it as like a swimming
pool outside the the uh the New
Jerusalem where all the evil spirits who
had pure knowledge pure sight pure
understanding but rebelled anyway were
cast but when did that come
up
she’ll hell with the prison and the
paradise ends yeah the prison you say
gives up its dead they’re judge they
either either go to the good place or
the Lake of Fire so that whole the good
place in that lake of fire that happened
then are technically what exists now
right I or was there an end to that too
I think it I think I don’t know about
the Lake of Fire part but for
convenience sake and by virtue of
conversation with gradian people all of
us who read Revelation and have studied
it tend to think that the Lake of Fire
you experience it here Jesus came to
baptize with the spirit and with fire
you experienced his eternal fire purging
you here in this life of your will and
ways or you die you go outside the the
city Gates and if you want to get in you
got to come into that Lake of Fire that
is that is God’s presence he is a
consuming fire okay so it we trans we
move that Lake of Fire and Revelation
that was used to the kingdom now okay
but I sorry to delate but it seems
like like when like when did that
condition that you’re describing that
you believe in happen when Christ
returned okay yeah so so
the prison giving up its dead to the new
condition is the condition you’re
talking about it’s not the lake of fire
is a thing that then evolves into what
you’re talking about it seems to me I’m
sorry to make it complex but it seems to
me like people are in sh prison Jesus
has taken his bride up into the New
Jerusalem where God and Christ dwell
they are the light thereof okay it seems
to me that then the people in prison
hell gives up its dead they are judged
before what’s called a great white
Throne to see if their name are written
in the books and if they’re not they’re
cast into the Lake of Fire now is that
they’re cast into the New Jerusalem I
don’t know I tend to think of it as
being a separate Lake of Fire that
existed for Satan and his angels which
is not part of the New Jerusalem but I
don’t know it could be wrong but you’re
saying you’re saying that the king the
Lake of Fire is like within or next to
God I don’t know about the lake of
Fire’s location just put it that way
don’t know we just know it was made for
Satan and his angels which seems to me
like God’s punishment on them
directly does it mean Satan and his
angels are in a lake of fire inside the
New Jerusalem which becomes the the
fiery place where God dwells I don’t
know that’s why I said I just like to
think of it as a swimming pool outside
the gates okay but okay wait I’m it
seems like there are
three lakes in your what you’re
describing desing his Three Lakes and
that’s why I’m have I don’t think you’re
saying that but I’m misunderstanding
there’s the
lake that happens after people are
judged at the great white Throne okay do
it chronologically what was the first
Lake that Lake okay there was a lake
that was made for Satan and his angels
so that Lake of Fire existed among Shel
existing all in in like all the Old
Testament times it seems like this was
created by God as a
place to throw them in okay so prison in
paradise and then Lake of
Fire Let’s just like goad
geographically uh middle fig Paradise
thumb is prison okay okay um Lake of
Fire uh great white Throne okay
okay this Jesus returns yeah this the uh
people in Paradise go to something else
that’s not the great white Throne is
that right I don’t know where the great
white Throne is it might be in that New
Jerusalem I don’t know New Jerusalem is
up here okay so they go Paradise people
go to uh
Jerusalem prison people go to Great
White Throne no prison yeah go to Great
White Throne get judged they either go
to New Jerusalem or they go to Lake of
Fire which has always existed that’s
right you’re saying
that that great that Lake of Fire and
the New Jerusalem could be like in the
same area could be maybe not could be
separate or it could be that um the Lake
of Fire created for Satan and his
angels is in the presence of and then
there’s another that’s at New Jerusalem
where people are get like Purge is
another manifestation of it or
application of it it’s quite possible
because this is all spiritual stuff
we’re talking about that they’re all one
place great the great white Throne the
New Jerusalem the Lake of Fire it’s God
you know and and it’s not like maybe we
don’t even see those angels or see those
people who are in prison having gone in
there it’s just spiritually described
because that’s all John could do okay
but there’s no place where it says the
Lake of Fire ends in the same way she
all ends I think there is a passage that
says that it ends as well okay that’s
helpful so then I think I want to make
sure about that okay yeah I’m curi
because that would that mean that
Satan’s ends too with it it would be
yeah and then New
Jerusalem the options are
like it functions in the way that the
Lake of Fire did and that purging
happens somehow or there is a that Lake
of Fire actually in it and people go to
that physically in order to like and
all that’s all assumption by me and
anyone else who thinks that way okay
yeah be and the reason we think that is
because Revelation says describing the
New Jerusalem a God and Christ to the
light thereof there is no night and the
gates are open day and night for an
outside and an inside so the gates are
open on all sides three on each side why
it seems to me like God is victoriously
calling listen you didn’t do it in your
life but if you’re outside of this and
you want to come come but it’s not going
to be painless you know you have a body
a resurrected body that can’t handle
what’s going to be in here your
resurrected body is not going to like
this and I think most people just say
I’m not I don’t even I’m staying out you
know and what’s the thing that you said
is next to is it next to God or it’s
right next to God I thought you said the
Lake of Fire is next
no uh Revelation describes the Lake of
Fire created for Satan and his angels as
being in the presence of the lamb and
his angels okay now that’s a trip I
don’t know what that means okay yeah the
lamb and his angels doesn’t necessarily
mean God or does it mean Jesus it mean
when when John writes lamb it means
Jesus usually okay yeah so it’s in the
presence so that could be that it’s
outside the gates but like still in the
New Jerusalem could sort of or like
within the okay and there’s another
wrinkle to it okay and that is Satan if
you remember our discussions on that is
more of a title rather than a
being and so as a title Satan the Satan
could have been the Jew religious
leaders of jesus’ day they W they
embodied the spirit title of H Satan so
it could be that Satan being cast into
the Lake of Fire where all of them who
put him to death and he’s in the midst
of them my gosh W so there is another
wrinkle that’s is quite possible okay
you know if you’re trying to take all
things into
consideration and
um it says there’s an end to the Lake of
Fire yeah will you look it up this look
up Lake of Fire and it’s only mentioned
a couple times
I just want to say it says and the Lake
of Fire was cast
into well Google just says it does not
indicate that but what the Lake of
Fire this say Lake of Fire in the Bible
and you’ll come up with a site instead
of AI
I feel like I should this
is you’re studying with us folks and
death in hell we cast into the Lake of
Fire this is the second
death um
and well none of these say end that’s it
in
Revelation no no
um cast is like a fire
where the Beast was cast into the Lake
of Fire verse
15 the Beast the prophet torment day
night forever and
ever wor Lake of Fire Burning with
Brimstone nothing about it being cast in
nothing nothing about the Lake of Fire
ending that’s what we’re looking for
well where I get that is that we’re
going to read in 1 Corinthians 15 that
the death ends okay and because he calls
the Lake of Fire the second
death right where they were cast into it
ends I believe all death ends and I
believe the second death ends too so
therefore the Lake of Fire because he
calls the Lake of Fire a second death
yeah yeah so that’s where all the okay
stuff happens okay wo that was about
19.5 it was
1906 good job I have his sense of time
time um well let’s just move on to the
next one part three coming up part
three
e e
