Understanding the Struggles of LDS Members

Welcome to Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology.!

I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion.. If you’re LDS, Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, or an atheist, we welcome you to our show and pray the glorious Light of the Lord will shine into your hearts tonight.

Conversations with LDS Members

Since March of this year, I have taken at least 70 airline flights. On the majority of these flights, I have the opportunity to sit by LDS people. We are able to talk openly under the auspices of relative anonymity. I hear their thoughts, and have the wonderful opportunity to listen to their ideas about the Church and their allegiance to it. Last week, I said that our ministry is specifically interested in reaching those LDS who are struggling.

Ministering to the Struggling LDS

After the show, a man who goes by “Bob” posted a remark on our message board. He said: “It makes me sick that Shawn wants to specifically seek out those who are struggling.” Can we approach this thing genuinely? Realistically? Practically? There is a HUGE number of people in this state alone who meet or match one or more of the following descriptions relative to the Mormon religion:

• They were born LDS, they consider themselves LDS, their family is LDS, and they have no idea what the Church even teaches. They attend on holidays and funerals and simply have never been embraced.

• They have fallen from Mormonism because of sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace., and in their inability to measure up to the eccletheoculture of the Church, wallow in guilt – and often more sin – and are certainly under a terrible social stigma as “inactive,” “fallen,” or “jack.”

• They long to know Jesus, they long for a personal relationship with God, they try, and try, and try, but never come really to know His peace. Not thinking there is any other way, they “attend Church” week after week in a virtual cloud.

• They are active, and righteous, and diligent in their duties. Their families are clean cut and accomplished, their spouses hold important positions, and they have been obedient to all that is asked of them – and they’re dead inside; Hollow, empty sepulchers rendering constant service to family and friends without only a referential thought about Jesus.

Yes, Bob, we call out to the struggling LDS. We plead for them to see, hear, and experience spiritual rebirth. We offer them something that once it is in place cannot ever be taken away – the absolute peace and joy in a new life in the Lord Jesus Christ. If it makes you sick that Jesus is being offered to struggling people, Bob, you need to seriously rethink what He is all about – and then come to Him too. There’s always room.

LDS Doctrine and Eternal Life

Okay, GAMA! Last week's question: What is needed for a Latter-day Saint to live with God again? Answers ranged from “accept Jesus Christ, be baptized, and follow Him” to “do everything that is required of you by Heavenly Father through His Church.”

What does LDS doctrine say? Let me read a small segment in Born-Again Mormon: Moving Toward Christian Authenticity:

An individual must possess/complete the following to receive eternal life or the celestial kingdom:

• faith in Jesus Christ.
• repentance for sin.
• baptism by proper LDS authority.
• the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those holding priesthood authority.
• the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
• the temple endowment.
• the new and everlasting covenant of marriage.
• enduring to the end.

Enduring to the end generally includes obeying all of God’s commandments and LDS covenants.

God’s commandments and LDS covenants include:

• repenting.
• prayer.
• frequent scripture study.
• fasting.
• bearing testimony to the truthfulness of the gospel.
• receiving all ordinances and rites in faith.
• keeping the Sabbath day holy.

Principles of Faithful Living and Obedience

The Word of Wisdom (the laws of health), sustaining local priesthood leaders, obeying the law of chastity, paying a full tithing and other requested offerings, attending Church meetings, magnifying Church callings, obeying the laws of the land, sharing the gospel (missionary work), doing family genealogy, being willing to consecrate everything to the Church, attending the temple often, being a valiant home teacher (if male) or visiting teacher (if female), following the prophet and apostles.

Since various Church leaders have strongly recommended the following activities, the truly obedient usually feel that, in addition to the above, following the prophet and apostles includes bearing or raising children, if possible, keeping a personal journal, subscribing to Church periodicals, honoring positive Church history, but avoiding the negative, observing specific grooming standards/requirements, adhering to specific apparel guidelines, avoiding caffeinated drinks (not included in the Word of Wisdom), maintaining a one-year food storage supply, participating in Boy Scouts (if male between ten and eighteen), remaining free from consumer-credit debt, avoiding R rated movies (or worse), preparing for and serving a full-time mission if an unmarried male or for couples without children under eighteen, assisting in church house maintenance and clean-up, obtaining a college education or vocational training, participating in local, state, and/or national politics, holding a weekly family home evening, accepting all Church callings and assignments, avoiding doctrinal/Church intellectualism and certain symposia, striving to do good continually.

The Believers Continuum

Comment on the “believers continuum” that exists within the body of LDS believers.

Biblical Teachings Contradicting Extra-Biblical LDS Presentations

Last week, the Bible teaches several things which are categorically contrary to these extra-biblical LDS presentations. Let’s list a few:

First, God would not give two conflicting commands knowing one was impossible to meet without breaking the other. He is Holy. Pure. A consuming fire. He is not Oz behind a curtain. Adam and Eve could have learned to procreate and if they had questions, God would have helped them along. But Adam and Eve did what most men and women do today – they turned to their own wisdom, and the advice of Satan, for their answers. God means what He speaks. And speaks what He means. When He said, “Don’t do this, he meant it for very good reasons.”

Christians understand that Adam and Eve could, in fact, have learned to walk, and talk, and live, and breathe, and procreate as they relied on the Lord. He would have been their God, and they would have been His people. But Eve tried to take a short cut. And the Bible is perfectly clear as to why: SHE WAS DECEIVED.

1st Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Now let’s look at the Biblical understanding of the word, “transgression.” Is this different from “sin,” as the LDS claim?

1st John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Eve and Adam transgressed God’s law, and transgression of the Law is what? It is sin! And what does sin bring? Happiness? Joy? God’s Plan of Salvation? Families? NO! Sin brings deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God..

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Adam and Eve transgressed God’s law. Why? To do things their way.

The Concept of Sin in Christianity

Instead of His way. This is called sin. Sin brings death.

1st Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Death is NEVER a good thing in scripture. It is always presented as ugly, painful, and opposite of God’s will and ways. Can you hear the contrasted elements here?

One Man (Adam) = DEATH
Another Man (Jesus) = Resurrection from the horrors of death!

In Adam = ALL DIE
In Christ = All are made alive.

Biblical Perspectives on Adam and Sin

Now in the Book of Mormon there is a passage that summarizes the idea of the “fall” for Latter-day Saints: It says: “Adam fell that men might be, and men are that they might have joy.” (2nd Nephi 2:25) In other words, “unless Adam fell, men could not “be” or exist. And then it goes on to say that the reason Mankind exists is to “have joy” – and to the LDS, the greatest joy comes from having a posterity, or family, or children.

But what does the Bible say about Adam’s contribution to the world:

Romans 5:12-21
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

The parallels are clear! Adam brought sin, death, heart-ache and misery upon Mankind. He sold the deed to the world to Satan. Because of sin all of us were not given opportunities on this earth, but were handed misery, woe, pain, and death.

Latter-Day Saints Theology on Creation and the Fall

But through Jesus death and sin were overcome! (Praise God) The deed to earth was redeemed! (Praise God!) And though all of us are under the condemnation of sin because of Adam, all of us can be completely free from sin under Jesus Christ. (Praise God)

Over the past three weeks we have learned that Mormonism teaches that: God operates under eternal Laws and Principles even He did not create. God cannot create matter. God was once a Man and He and His wife or wives progressed under these laws and principles to becoming God. God and His wives formed spirit children out of pre-existing spirit matter. Jesus, Satan, and you and I were some of Heavenly parents spirit children. Satan rebelled and was cast out. Adam and Eve “fell upward” in that their disobedience should be praised.

Okay, let’s go to the phones. Continued the topic of the pre-mortal life. Discussed the LDS views of the War in Heaven, Blacks and the priesthood, Angels and Lucifer.

So, in the chronology of LDS theology, God creates the earth through Jesus using pre-existing matter for those spirits who agreed with His Plan of Salvation. A helper in this creation was Michael the Arch-angel. When the earth was finished, Michael the Arch-angel became Adam, the first man on earth. Eve was created as a help meet for Adam. God gave Adam and Eve two commandments in LDS theology – two conflicting commandments, in their view. Multiply and replenish the earth. Do not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Now Latter-day Saint theology teaches that Adam and Eve were like little children prior to partaking of the forbidden fruit from the knowledge of good and evil. And yet God presented them with a command that required knowledge. Multiply and replenish the earth. So we are presented with the first Catch-22 in human history. For on the one hand, Adam and Eve were told to “multiply and replenish the earth” – to procreate, have children. But on the other hand they did not know what that meant nor did they know how to go about accomplishing it. The only way that Adam and Eve could ever know how to multiply and replenish the earth was for them to become knowledgeable. And the only way for them to gain knowledge, according to LDS doctrine, was for them to transgress God.

LDS Perspective on Adam and Eve

and His command and eat of the forbidden tree.

The LDS say that their actions were not sinful but a “transgression” because while Adam and Eve knew what they were told by God, they had no idea that going against Him was wrong, per se, because they had yet to understand the difference between good and evil!

Now, what would have happened, according to LDS teachings had Adam and Eve NOT eaten of the forbidden tree?

They would have first disobeyed God and NOT multiplied and replenished the earth. And they would have remained in the garden of Eden forever! Therefore you and I would never have had an opportunity to come to earth and gain a body like God! So therefore, something had to be done. Action taken! Progress made!

And so Eve, who was a little more suave and street smart than Adam, could see at some point in their existence there in the garden that they really weren’t getting anywhere as a couple. So in an act she deemed logical, she listened to the tempting serpent, and partook of the fruit she was told not to eat of.

When her eyes were opened and she knew what she had done and the consequences of her actions – that she was going to be cast out of the Garden and Adam would be left a lone man therein – she convinced Adam that in order for them to have children and obey God’s command to procreate, he would need to be with her in life. Adam could see the conundrum they were in and acquiesced to Eve’s predicament, taking the fruit, having his eyes opened, and thereby gaining the proper “knowledge” he needed to procreate.

As promised, Adam and Eve were banished from the garden, the world fell into a lesser and more difficult state of existence, and death was introduced to all living things. But here is the important point:

The Fall and Human Existence

All these things opened up the door for Man to be born, to have children, to learn, to have joy, and to progress to become Gods! According to LDS theology, without “the fall” there would be no human race! We would all just be stuck up in heaven waiting for Father Adam and Mother Eve to somehow learn how to procreate so we could be born!

In this light, Adam and Eve were actually heroes to humanity, doing what was needed for God’s plan to initiate. It’s an interesting perspective. I mean, we all must have been sitting in the pre-existence hoping and waiting for Adam or Eve to disobey God!

Are you with me so far?

Christian Perspective

Now if you are a Christian, your mind has probably in pieces all over the floor right now.

Here’s why.

Let’s open up the phone lines and get the operators going.

(801) 973-TV20 / 973-8820 Please make sure your TV is turned down when you come on the air.

Biblical Teachings on Creation and Sin

But the Bible teaches that . . . God is the first and the last.

God created all things – laws, principles, and matter.

3. There is only ONE God and there are NONE before or after Him.

God created Man from the dust of the earth and breathed His spirit into him thereby giving him life.

Jesus is God incarnate who created Satan as a cherub and formed us from us from the dust of the earth. We agree but not for the same reasons. Christians also know that Satan answers still to God.

Adam brought sin and death into God’s perfect creation and handed the deed to their world over to Satan as a result.

I ask you, my friend, what theology leads people searching for a relationship with God to honor, praise, and worship Him?

#1
Do you see R-rated movies? I see anything that I am interested in seeing and I am interested in seeing good films that have value. I can’t imagine leaving this earth in this day and age not having seen films like Braveheart, Schindler’s List, The Passion of the Christ, or other great R rated films. Then again, I can’t imagine spending a single minute in movies that do nothing for the mind like The Fast and the Furious or You Got Served or Scary Movie 3.

#2
What is your profession? I was a stockbroker for 12 or so years. I also designed a clothing line in Sri Lanka for a few years and also failed in a start-up internet business. I’ve always been a writer (or sorts) and never cared deeply about a profession but have instead spent most of my life

Exploring the Financial Aspects of Hosting a Show

Who sings on at the start of the show? What are the names of the songs?

Johnny Cash sings both songs. The open is with U2 and is called The Wanderer and the last is a remake of a Soundgarden song called, Rusty Cage.

Compensation and Support

How much money do you make doing the show? I make no money doing the show. I sleep in an office building the nights I am here and I am picked up by friends at the airport. My airfare is picked-up by a Church I attend in California. We give 2/3rds of our books away. I pay out of pocket to do the show.

Addressing Online Criticism

Like to say something here. We had a guy – a EXTREMELY RUDE GUY – post on our site about how the Tanners make their living off their ministry. He implied the same with us. You know, lawyers make their living off suing people, and doctors make their living off charging sick and ill people. Business people capitalize on unsuspecting and uninformed people and the LDS Church demands 10% for a person to be worthy to receive ordinances of exaltation. Get over it. There are far better ways to make money than writing information about Mormons.

CONCLUSION