The Lee Baker “Review”

Introduction

Live from SLC Utah this is HOTM where we do all we can to worship God in Spirit and Truth. My name is Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., and I am your host. Let’s begin with a prayer.

Show 14 Response to Lee and Kathy Baker

PRAYER

Upcoming Guests and Gratitude

So we had scheduled a man named John Hajichek who would have come with some truly interesting claims, but John had some type of emergency pop up in his life, so perhaps another time. Next week (April 9th) we will have the pleasure of sitting with Dave Donaldson, who runs a ministry in the prisons and has some really great insights into how Jesus has changed lives for the incarcerated. Then the following week (April 16th), we will have my friend Nicole Wade come and take us into the heart of addiction and the addictive personality – so we look forward to that.

Before we get into tonight’s review and response to Lee and Kathy Baker's departure from the faith, I want to take a moment and thank those of you who support this ministry through prayers and those who choose to support us through hard-earned financial contributions. I want you to know they are what allow us to do what we do. And what we do is not high on the hog. It is simple, straightforward, and aimed at getting information out to seekers of truth.

Your sacrifices to pray for us and to help support the ministry mean the world to this effort and confronting deceptions wherever they lie. As an FYI, since announcing the TVAR, we have made the first major pass of the Gospel of Mark and Luke – which is one of the longest books in the Apostolic Record – and the end results of this effort are going to be – simply put – epic. Stay with us. Tell your friends about the ministry, and keep us in your prayers. We covet them earnestly.

Supported Ministries and Church Evaluations

If you have watched us for any time, you know we strongly support three ministries: TalkingtoMormons, ExMormonfiles, and more recently Checkmychurch.org. I’ve gotta tell you, Sarah’s Check my church is invaluable at looking at the underbelly of the church-playing that goes on in Idaho and Utah, and I am so proud of her efforts to expose corruption in the ranks of churches and their “Pastards” who ought to be feeding the sheep rather than fleecing them of their time, money, allegiances while filling them with misinformation about the Great NewsThe message that prophecy is fulfilled and we are free to pursue God in love and liberty—without fear or religious control.. Sarah sent me a questionnaire and I filled it out with total transparency. Her group gave CAMPUS the coveted House of God endorsement.

Other House of God endorsements have been given to “Christian Life Assembly of God in Payson (which shows she will not let independent expressions of worship bias her as they are charismatic) and Calvary Chapel, Sevier Valley in Richfield Utah (showing she has no issues with a chain church like the Calvary Chapels). She also gave the House of God rating to Redemption Hill Church in Saratoga Springs, Utah. So Sarah is proving she wants to support churches that serve God and not themselves.

Of the churches she warns people about, she has two categories to warn people about: materialism/money and those that are legalistic and law-pushing. Gospel Grace Church and Capital Church in Salt Lake get the legalistic stamp. And when it comes to materialism and money focus warning, can ya guess who gets its here in Utah? The Adventure Church in Draper, The Rock Church in Draper, South Mountain Community Church in Draper, and K2 Church in Murray.

End of Brick and Mortar Religion

So, on the one hand, we’ve got churches that throw down the law on people, and on the other hand, we’ve got churches that have a constant push for money, money, money. I’m telling you, and I’ve said it before, these very things are going to put an end to brick-and-mortar religion. The youngsters aren’t gonna put up with the MANipulations that their parents do, but the pastors of these money makers don’t care – they’re getting theirs and will play the game until it runs dry.

Understand, my war is not against these pastors themselves – they are just emblems of the corruption in dark places spiritually. But like our Lord and Savior who we are told to follow, it is important to go nose to nose against the religious charlatans of our day. He certainly did.

Biblical Reminder

In Matthew 22 we remember what OUR LORD SAVIOR AND KING SAID TO THE RELIGIOUS CHARLATANS OF HIS DAY:

When they tried to trick him, he called them hypocrites.

Critique of Religious Hypocrisy

(Matthew 22:18)

In Matthew 23:4 He said that they

“bind heavy burdens that are grievous to bear on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.”

How many of these pastors are guilty of the same? Jesus said of them

“But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, and love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Pastor! Pastor!”

He said: They devour widows' houses (take widows money), and for a pretense make long prayers (to outwardly prove their religiosity).

He said: They will cover land and sea to get one proselyte and then once they are converted to their ways they are double a child of hell than themselves. At that point JESUS CALLED THEM Blind guides and fools. He said that they

“strain at a gnats and swallow camels, and that as hypocrites they make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.”

You know what extortion is? It’s what these pastors practice every time they use God’s name to extract MONEY out of the people.

Hypocrisy in Religious Leadership

Jesus, looking at their exteriors and calling them hypocrites then says

they are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

This is Jesus talking folks – the Word of God made flesh – and his speech is harsh ONLY against the phony, hypocritical, money grubbing, manipulating religious leaders of His day!

At verse three he turns up the heat and calls them

SERPENTS AND A GENERATION of VIPERS and wonders how on earth they would ever escape Gehenna.

Again, our example as a Christian is given here by the Lord and King of our faith and lives!

The Challenge of Religious Manipulation

I came to this state fourteen years ago to help the Lord FREE Latter-day Saints FROM the bondage of religion and help them know what Jesus alone in their lives could do for them. What did we find? Religious bloodsuckers looming on the fringes with MORE religion, more legalisms, more demands, more guilt, more shame. They don’t preach the Good News – they preach another God and another Gospel – one of Jesus AND The Holy Spirit AND God AND And church And rites And obedience And tithes And sacrifice to THEM! To their religious Dreams!

Shame of you, vipers. Shame on you for fleecing your flocks, for failing to liberate people in the name of Jesus, and for making your disciples more burdened (in Jesus name) then they were when they didn’t know him at all. Why the hard line? For the very same reason Jesus took a hard line when he confronted the religious rulers who searched land and sea to make proselytes of the people Jesus LOVED and then only make them worse in the heart than they were themselves. And all of this rhetoric plays directly into our topic for tonight – the recent fall out of Lee and Kathy Baker from the faith.

See, I care about current and former Mormon folk. We all come from the same place of extreme religious manipulation. It was a religion that gave us religious traditions, religious rules, a new God, a different Jesus, a revised temple, tithes and offering and demands allegiances. And we complied. And we tried. And we constantly felt ourselves failure – so we serve the machine harder – trying to make Heavenly Father love us more. And when we saw the truth of it all, we stumbled out like people walking out of a burning building. Our culture was destroyed, our ideas of family, marriage, children, God, salvation, truth – utterly ravaged and torn to bits – all of us EFFED over by the rhetoric and lies and demands of religious given to us in the NAME of GOD.

The Impact on Individuals

That institution up on North temple offers up human sacrifices to itself every single day without a care of the fallout. It serves itself and its needs and it is always right. So ten years ago, in 2009, a couple named Lee and Kathy Baker, once trapped in the legalistic, money and time demanding machine of Mormonism, stumbled out of the burning building burned over 90% of their souls. In their recent letter (describing their recent departure from believing Christ as Lord and Savior) they opened the letter with the following:

“Just over ten years ago, Kathy and I endured an extremely painful and emotional separation from the Mormon Church. This enormous…

Life-Changing Realizations

The life-changing event was prompted by our discovery and realization that the foundational Mormon “Scriptures” have been intentionally and deceptively altered, misquoted, misused and in some cases totally fabricated to present a very specific Religious Theology. As a consequence of our actions, our three Daughters, along with nine of our Grandchildren, have completely severed all normal Family and communication with us. In short, the obvious lie and deception of Mormonism has been, and most likely will continue to be, the primary reason for the destruction of our Family.

Now, let me pause here and reiterate the fragile tenuous state these folks were in when they left Mormonism. They describe it as EXTREMELY painful and emotional. Enormously lifechanging and resulting in the destruction of their family. You got all of that? You understand the mind and heart set of the Bakers? Few people who have never been faithful get it because it is much much more than academia. It is more than attending church. It is a religion that weaves itself into EVERYTHING the members life has been up to that point. Homelife, culture, social life, sex life, sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. life, dances as a teen, treks, father daughter outings, scouting, homemaking, dress and style standards, occupation, leadership, speaking skills, confessions, interviews, discipline, temple worship… Far, far, far more than just doctrine and practice which undergird it all.

The Bakers' Journey

So, the Bakers, who obviously LOVE their three daughters and grandchildren, AFTER discovering the manipulation of scripture in their faith, courageously choose to sacrifice all that they were – to another way – and it is a way they do NOT understand coming out. But unlike many exiting LDS folks today the Bakers exited with a continued longing for truth – about God, and Jesus, and life after this. And what are they met with? Thirty thousand explanations of thirty thousand topics with thirty thousand expressions of the same – and most of these explanations that the Bakers met were faulty. But coming out, they didn’t know this! They didn’t know jack about the Good News and the Great News. All they knew was what was presented to them. And so like people tossed overboard in stormy seas, the Bakers grabbed the first thing that they believed would sustain them spiritually.

And that lifesaver that they took hold on presented the Bakers with information that at first glance appeared biblical, and reasonable, and acceptable. But see, what the purveyors of modern Christianity do not understand about ex-Mormons is we are once burned and twice shy – if we care – and most do. And so while we will go along with what we are told by our “religious leaders,” our pastors for a while, behind the scenes, we are scrutinizing every freaking word you say, every interpretation of scripture you provide, and every action you take. And if your gig starts to not add up – two things can happen – the ex LDS couple will die to thinking and seeking and just follow you (which I know is what you all want because that is what all religious leaders want – devotees who follow them with absolute devotion) OR we discover that you are a fraud and continue seeking OR something really tragic can occur: We abandon all hope – and grasp what DOES make sense to us – since your schtick doesn’t when truly scrutinized.

Understanding Faith

See, none of this should be happening to Ex LDS people who seek Christian truths – or to ANYONE, quite frankly seeking truth. God set it up to NOT happen. How? He made the faith to be a few things:

1. He made it and all thinking about it free and open.
2. He wrote His laws on the hearts and minds of individuals.
3. He made his body a spiritual body, not material.
4. He made the faith subjectively understood not objectively demanded.
5. He made His spirit Primary, His written word secondary, and religious tradition tertiary (at best).
6. He gave his priesthood to all believers – male and female.
7. He abolished hell and Satan and saved the world through His only Son.
8. He freed all from the bondage of the Law.
9. And he made this faith unshakeable because he built it on the unshakeable foundations NOT on the ways of Man.

But Lee and Kathy Baker were not met with these offerings clearly supported by a reasonable contextual analysis of Holy Writ. They were met with more religion. More fearful second comingChrist’s return, fulfilled in 70 A.D., ending the old covenant—not the world. BS. More hell BS. More law, more tithes, more demands for obedience, more complicity, more allegiances – frankly, More Mormonism. And that was what the Bakers found most comfortable – so

Ex-Mormon Seekers' Journey

They naturally embraced it. I’m not sure if the poor guy ever took his tie off. But remember what I said – ex-Mormon seekers, like the Bakers, and like myself, will accept the rhetoric and the traditions but all the while we – like all other seekers – are not letting anything escape scrutiny.

And so the Bakers, having gone along with what was fed to them, kept studying. This is the next thing the letter they posted said: “Today, as a result of months of Biblical (Hebrew) study, we have chosen to leave the Christian church. This equally enormous life-changing event has been prompted by our recent discovery and realization that the foundational Christian “scriptures” have also been intentionally and deceptively altered, misquoted, misued and in some cases totally fabricated to present a very specific Religious Theology.”

He adds after a short paragraph stating that Christianity has done the same manipulating as Mormonism: “We believe that many of the essential Christian Doctrines, like the Second Coming, the Trinity, and Predestination are clear examples of the non-biblical inventions of men.”

Challenges with Christian Doctrine

Is he wrong? I don’t think so. What and who have been wrong are the people who greeted the Bakers on their exit from the burning building of Mormonism, and wrapped them all up in more unfounded, unscriptural, man-made traditions that are not cogently supported by a reasonable, contextual view of scripture.

Baker was taken in by the sinister scriptural evils of Calvinism, he trusted Trinitarian rhetoric, and he ardently fought for a eminent second coming, only to discover he had bought into more religion – more demanded doctrine, more demented views, more destructible tales of religious certainty.

Because he was NEVER presented with an unobstructed Good news. He was presented with institutional, traditional Christian insanity. So what does he do – he, in my estimation (unfortunately) – embraces another system promulgated by Man. And this is what he says in conclusion of his communication: “We will join the Bnei Noah branch of Judaism and formally submit ourselves to the Mitzvoth (Laws) of that religious congregation. As such, we openly state that we do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the authentic Messiah. We do, however, look forward to the coming biblical Messiah, clearly spoken of throughout the original Hebrew scriptures. We now turn our hearts and our lives to the One and Only God of Abraham, who ALONE (underlined) is our savior and Redeemer.”

After this letter, Lee poses a number of questions he appears to believe were unanswerable from Christian views – but most of them were answerable and those that were not fell under a misunderstanding of the Tanakh relative to the wrapping up of their age. I am glad to know that Lee and Kathy have not abandoned God altogether as many people do.

Community Response

And I admit that what they are doing is healthy in the sense that they continue to seek and search due to the fact that what they have discovered in Meanvangelicalism has not satisfied them. Seekers find, and I hope they continue to seek and to test all things.

Perhaps the most unfortunate thing about the Baker story is not that they continue to seek and search with hearts for God (which I trust will someday lead them back to Yeshua) but it was the online response they received from the so-called Christian community who just one week earlier loved and adored the Bakers.

Like the LDS, once someone leaves their ranks, the Mean-vangelicals went on the full offense maligning the Bakers and using offensive and critical language toward their persons. Hell bound. Children of the devil. Deceived by the same. All the same rhetoric those who do NOT know the living God use when someone thinks or sees things differently than they do.

Lee Baker used these comments to abandon disgracebook by saying that if he ever had evidence that his decision was correct it was in and through the verbal reactions his Christian family and friends had given him. Shameful. So misguided. So led by fear, by darkness, by faithlessness in the living God.

I get so freaking embarrassed by the zealots – these cold-hearted pharisaical scribes who strain at gnats and swallow camels. Like the religionists Jesus addressed, calling them vipers, serpents, hypocrites “Mean-vangelicals eat their own, and do it in the name of God.”

In closing, I want Lee and Kathy Baker to know that they can believe whatever they want, they can take ten thousand more paths in their journey but along the way they have my love. Its not a love for

The Unadulterated Good News

It is love that God gives me by and through my faith and allegiance to His Son who did it all for the world.

I want you to know that the loudest and most threatening Mean-vangelicals who have rejected you are not representing the unadulterated Good News. They are representing God like the pharisees represented God – with demands and threats and fears. I want you to know that there is a better explanation out there of the faith that will better suffice than what you have been fed by these deluded religionists:

A Better Way

It is a better way because it completely allows for freedom of thought, life by and through the Spirit, and a focus on loving all people. It is a way that would permit you with joy to pursue Noadic Judaism – trusting that God has you. It’s a way that removes the ties that bind, the laws that condemn, the sin that kills.

The Way, Truth, and Life

It is a way, it is a truth, and it is a life. And that way is called Jesus. If you ever want to be introduced to Him I would welcome the opportunity. And until that time, God’s speed.

(beat)

Next week, Dave Donaldson and his remarkable story of Jesus working not only in his life but in the lives of prisoners – here on Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology..