“Live from the Mecca of Mormonism – Salt Lake City Utah – This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. – Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity . . . Face to Face”

And I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion. your host. We praise the true and living God for allowing us to be part of this His ministry.

February 2015 we’re planning a conference. We are calling it Sunday’s Best.

Take a look:

If you know someone who would do a respectable job of explaining the nuances of their biblical take please either write us at shawn@alatheamedia.com or call us at 888 868-4686. We’ve already got a representative for Mormonism booked and we are in the negotiation phase with a Catholic (who by the way is requesting a minimum honorarium of 4 GRAND) . . . You know that amazes me in a number of ways. I mean this man has the opportunity to present and explain the merits of Catholicism to an audience full of varied faiths and he wants 4 grand to do it (plus expenses). At least LDS PH.D Bob Millet has agreed without a number being demanded. I mean wouldn’t a person at least say something like, “whatever you guys can do to help out with costs would be great” but to contract a price to explain your faith? Unreal.

Run Sunday’s Best spot here please
And with that how about a moment from the Word?

The Trinitarian Debate

Many of you are aware of the trouble I got in when I questioned the viability of the Trinitarian explanation of God. I want you to know that my insights and differences with Trinitarian teachings came from my reading the Bible NOT by studying other non-Trinitarian beliefs. Since the “Inquisition” I have come to learn that there are other Christian groups that reject the trinity – like a group called Oneness Pentecostals.

The other day I sat down to lunch with my friend Joe and his wife. During the meal Joe (a pastor of many years) gave me insight into what I am about to share tonight. It was something I have never known or seen before and in my opinion it adds even greater support for my view of the ontology of God.

Scriptural Examination

Let’s start with a passage you are all familiar with – Colossians 2:9 which, speaking of Christ, says:

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

Ever think about that passage? That in Christ, in His flesh we might say, dwelled (in other words, The Completion of Divinity bodily – that’s another way to say “the fullness of the Godhead”).

Now hang on to that thought and go with me to Matthew 28 verse 19 (otherwise known as the Great Commission). I’m sure you will recognize the words readily. It is the only place in scripture where the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are presented this way. Jesus was about to ascend and He tells His disciples:

Matthew 28:19 “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”

Now when I was LDS I baptized people “in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.” And when I became a Christian I’ve baptized hundreds “in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” But we have to ask ourselves a serious question here. How come Jesus very own apostles, when they went out into the world apparently ignored Jesus words here in Matthew 28 and NEVER baptized anybody in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit?

Apostolic Practices

We’re they being rebellious? Did they discover a better way to baptize than how Jesus had instructed them or . . . OR have WE gotten the meaning of Jesus instructions all wrong? I would suggest the latter. You see, NOWHERE in the book of Acts or ANY of the epistles ANYWHERE do we read that the Apostles did ANYTHING (like baptizing, or casting out devils, or healing the sick, or raising the dead – none of it!) did any of them ever do in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. What “Name” did they do these

Understanding the Nature of God

You see, I would suggest that right before Jesus ascended into heaven that He told His disciples this: Now go out and baptize in the name of (point to self) the Father, and of the (point to self) the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (point to self) – So when the Apostles went out into the world they baptized IN THE NAME (Jesus) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit WHICH DWELLED IN HIM COMPLETELY and BODILY.

Remember when Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father and what Jesus said? He said:

John 14:9-10 “Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”

Do you recall the verse where the only time Father (with a capital F) is mentioned in the Old Testament?

That’s right, Isaiah 9:6. And speaking specifically of Jesus it says:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Examining the Doctrine of the Trinity

The man-made doctrine of the Trinity teaches that Jesus was a Son of the Father from the beginning and that as “separate and distinct beings,” He related to His Father the way a Son relates to a Son here on earth.

The man-made doctrine of the Trinity also teaches that the Holy Spirit was also a separate being (person) that existed right along with the Father and the Son. Trinitarians say that when we put them all together (and you turn yourself around) you get God. Modalism teaches that the Father became the Son and then the Son became the Holy Spirit and at no time did any two or three exist at the same time.

Understanding the Roles of God

But where I used to reject the example that we can explain God by the example that “I am one person but I am a Father, I am a Son, and I am a husband,” I now believe that this is perhaps the best way to explain Almighty God of the Bible. He is One God of different titles and in relation to those titles He fills different roles, especially that of being a Father, a Son, and a Holy Spirit.

Whatever capacity God is meeting, He is completely God and bears ALL the titles with Him in full. So when Jesus was on earth, we see God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit moves, it is God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And when the Father speaks, it is God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit. NOT THREE persons or beings or essences that are differentiated, BUT ONE God manifesting Himself as Father, and/or Son, and/or Holy Spirit.

Take it for what it’s worth. And as with all things, we may be wrong, we accept those who see things differently, and may even change on this too . . . in time. And with that how about a word of prayer?

So last week we talked about some of the problems that exist within Christianity “writ large” relative to the Bible and Christian people’s use of it. The week before we showed how the LDS have besmirched the Bible in their own particular fashion (over the years and even today).

Soooo, tonight, relative to the Bible, what are we to do? On the one hand the LDS don’t trust the Bible at all and on the other hand we have more than thirty three THOUSAND denominations who all think THEY interpret the Bible better than anyone else (and this has created all sorts of division and mayhem for nearly 1800 years).

Before I suggest what I believe is the best approach to the Bible, I want to make some things clear. First, I am NOT trying to establish another denomination. In fact, I am thinking of changing the name of CAMPUS legally so as to avoid it becoming a denom of any kind. All we are attempting to do is build a case for some

Exploring the Bible

New “methods” (which we believe are founded on sound biblical principles) that we hope Christians of every walk and way and denom will consider. It is my hope that as these methods or principles are adopted they will lead to a ubiquitous change of world view that currently thrives in the hearts of most believers today (and which has greatly contributed to the ugliness of Christian history and the problems we discussed last week).

So what we are going to do tonight is to suggest another way to view the Bible. I don’t mean its individual doctrines, I mean the Bible as a whole. This topic – How to View the Bible – is going to serve as an initial snowball at the top of a steep hill. Once we form it we’re going to push it over the edge and for the rest of the year and let the velocity of this small core ball collect more and more girth.

Now, I want you to know that there is no book on earth that I respect and love and devote my personal time to than the Bible. This is not to boast in any fashion but take a look at my Bible . . . this is the second one that I have owned since 2004 (the first was stolen). I am in it every day.

The Role of the Bible in Worship

We teach the Bible verse by verseTGNN’s Bible teaching series—book-by-book, through the lens of fulfillment and spiritual liberty. and contextually every week in two different sermons – one called Milk one called Meat. We sing the verses of the Bible as the text for our worship songs. It is the Word of God, it is infallible, and it is the single most amazing book on the face of this earth.

Now, the Old Testament, of course, is a history (not exhaustive by any means) of God working His will on earth through a chosen nation and in preparation of bringing the Good News to all. Specifically, the Old Testament deals with the Nation of Israel and with God bringing them out from among the pagans and establishing a people who would call Him their God.

The Covenant with Israel

Those people – the Children of Israel – originated from Abraham, then Isaac, the Jacob (who was renamed Israel) and Israel had twelve sons. All of their offspring make up the Children of Israel and after being led out of Egypt they began to live under what we call the Law of Moses. We might view this Law as a material covenant between God and Man.

What I mean by this is God promised the Nation of Israel material blessings if they were obedient to His commands and directives (His Law) and material trouble if they did not. Some of the promises God made to the Children of Israel included the promise of a material Messiah.

Isaiah prophetically wrote of this promised Messiah and said (second time we are using this passage tonight):

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.”

From the time of Adam people (who ultimately became the Nation of Israel) looked forward to the arrival, the birth, of “this child, this Son, this prince of Peace, this Everlasting Father, this mighty God.” And guess what? He came. As promised. Materially.

And when He came He lived the Law of Moses to perfection, and He taught and sought the Lost sheep of the House of Israel, and lived a real material life. He was literally born in flesh, (materially) He learned obedience by the things He suffered (materially) He offered up His material life, died a material deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God., resurrected (materially) and then He said that He would return . . . materially for His material church (and in my opinion, to complete His work among the Nation of Israel materially).

In addition to fulfilling prophecy found in the Old Testament, Jesus taught twelve apostles and told them to take the Gospel out to the world and share it. These men were the leaders of what we call the apostolic Church. What I believe was the actual material church that the gates of hell would NOT

Apostolic Church and the Law

Initially, the apostles only shared the Good News with the Lost sheep of the House of Israel. In time, this Good News was given to non-Jews (or who we call Gentiles). One of the great trials the apostolic church faced was overcoming some 1500 years of religious tradition created by the material law and man's misunderstanding of it. It was very difficult for converted Jews to let go of the law and its ways and to make room for grace. The apostles made compromises among the converted Jews and tried to keep peace between them and the converted Gentiles who entered into the fold essentially without ever having law. This friction created division, but the apostles worked effectively to put it to bed.

When Paul came along (filling, in my opinion, Matthias’ place who I believe was called impetuously) and he joined the apostles, an even greater distancing took place as his teachings removed the early church even further from the confines of the bondage of the law and tradition. Within this nascent church, there were two sources of scripture that were flowing into this confluence of Old Testament tradition and New Testament grace. The first was the Old Testament, and the second were the inspired writings of the Apostles. To the early Christians, it was the Old Testament to which they appealed when attempting to “test all things and to hold fast to what is good.” And while the Berean’s and others would certainly appeal to the Old Testament as believers in the Apostolic church, they would never resort to applying all they read to their lives.

The New Administration of Grace

Times had changed. They were under a new administration – the administration of grace, which is actually contrary to Law. Then in addition to the Old Testament, the Apostles also communicated to the early church as a means to help them (at that time) to survive physically (materially) and for other readings in the generations to come to survive spiritually. For almost two millennia, most Christians have somehow come to believe that the apostles were actually writing and addressing future generations. Not so. At least not materially.

Remember, God promised a material Messiah to the House of Israel, who came to them materially, died materially, and then rose materially. In Matthew 24, this material Messiah promised that He was going to return (for them) materially, and He said it would be within a generation. And so the letters and speeches and epistles the Apostles wrote had – HAD – material application to THAT apostolic church. Again, because the confluence of cultures was so radically volatile, the apostles gave instructions that had material and spiritual application to the believers at that time as a means to keep the gates of hell from prevailing against it.

Directives for the Time

For this reason, we have all sorts of directives that were applicable only to that day and age, things like: Women speaking or teaching in church and their subordinate status. With most of the early church converts coming out of Judaism, such a rule would be absolutely mandatory just to keep peace. On the eating of meats sacrificed to idols. (Again, consider the context and the history of those to whom these directives were given). Then there was Circumcision. Elders, deacons, giving support, the stuff about widows, hair-styles, apparel, jewelry.

Here’s the deal. When we take all of this stuff (and more) and believe it was written to believers today AS MUCH as it was written to believers then, the end result is everything we brought out last week – Denominationalism, Sectarianism, Dogma, Infighting, Inquisitions, and absolutely uncontextual applications of the book that needs to first be seen as the inspired history of God dealing with His peoples in those TIMES and secondly of Him reaching and teaching us today spiritually.

From the annals of the Old Testament, the Apostolic church gained insights, inspiration, and reassurance that the Messiah was who He claimed to be, and they were in harmony with God’s will for that time. But you would have never, ever seen true Christians in the apostolic church trying to apply all the tenets of the Old Covenant to themselves (or to Christ’s church). In fact, the apostles fought strong and hard to keep what were known as Judaisers out of the flock.

Here’s the deal – nowhere, anywhere at all, in the New Testament, do the writers ever suggest that what they were writing was applicable for all ages. Men have adopted this view. In light of this, we are left with a choice: Continue to read the Bible as though…

Historical Context and Spiritual Guidance

it was written for our day materially and to try and apply it (and to then continue to argue and fight and call each other names) OR to see it for what it is – a history of God working through inspired men of that age materially – and secondly as a guide to all believers spiritually ever since. Again, (repeat the above)

Let me support my argument with some more concepts. We are really big on taking the whole word of God into account today, aren’t we? I mean few Christians would ever say: “I like Romans, and John, and Galatians, but you can have Colossians and 1st Corinthians and Revelation, right?” We’ll let me ask you something? Did the Apostolic church members have the whole word of God available to them? Certainly the believers at Corinth had Paul’s letters to them that arrived and ultimately got into their hands but did they have Jude, 1st AND 2nd Peter. And vice versa? I mean when did the Apostolic believers actually have all of the New Testament collected and gathered and used like we have it today?

They didn’t? That didn’t officially happen until around 280 AD and then that was only the gathering up of it all and saying: “Authorized” In reality, individual believers didn’t have access and use of the collection of the New Testament until Jerome and then that version was all in Latin (which the people couldn’t read) so in REALITY the Bible wasn’t really available to the world of believers until the printing press! So putting all conjecture and hypothecation aside to justify believers being a Bible readin people, for the most part the Bible was not available until AT THE EARLIEST the time of Luther.

The Holy Spirit's Role

What led believers? What kept the Church together? Was there a total apostasy or was there always a remnant of the faithful and if there was a remnant what led them? The Holy Spirit. See, all the way back in the Old Testament God gave a promise on how people would relate to Him. This is what He said in Jeremiah 31:33 about the day and age of the apostolic church AND our day today:

“But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. no more.”

The writer of Hebrews, applying these passages to the believers of His day in the Apostolic church wrote that God had said:

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”
Hebrews 10:16-17

Objective Religion to Subjective Relationship

If these passages are true (and they are) then we are facing the need for one of the most monumental shifts in Christian history – A shift from Objective Religion to Subjective Relationship.

You see, what happened was this. Men decided that the early Church was a material model that needed to be adopted, replicated, restored, or mimicked by believers since apostolic times. Nowhere are we instructed that this is the case. But men got involved and created this idea of apostolic succession (that’s worked well, hasn’t it) or reformation (that worked well, right?) or Restoration (look what that has created) when in the end God has NEVER, EVER even intimated that after the apostolic church brick and mortar edifices run by boards of men were to rule.

So the solution to the present ridiculousness of playing church, or being the best denomination, the closest to the early church is no church at all (in the sense of trying to follow material models). The solution is for anyone and everyone who lays claim to Jesus as Lord coming together (if led), praying (if led) doing communion (if desired) and reading the word as a means to develop faith and to learn to love. This means a death to dogma, a death to doctrinal import, a death to demanded praxis. Anytime we name something, we divide. The only name that ought to divide us from the World is

Jesus and Subjective Christianity

If people come along and claim Jesus who are we to challenge them. Of course we teach the word, we share what it says and all the spiritual applications it has to the Christian life, but Christianity, going all the way back to Kierkegaard, is wholly subjective. The ONLY time in history that it was objectively applied was when it was under the guide of the Apostles – and that was all in preparation of the Lord’s eminent physical return for His physical church – which occurred in 70 AD. Once that was done, His material work among His material Kingdom was complete. And now EVERYTHING has moved from the material and the Objective to the spiritual and the subjective.

For this to effectively occur and transition into the hearts of believers there is a great need to first deconstruct what has been. Once that is complete, we can then approach NOT building up again, but embracing reasonable biblical models that can be applied in any denomination that claims Christ as Lord and Savior.

Approaching Christianity with Reason

And this leads us into our next topic which we are going to begin next week –

Eschatology and Jesus' Return

Specifically, when do the Mormon’s say Jesus will return, what do the majority of Christian’s say about His return, and how I will prove – PROVE – using the Bible, that He has already returned for His physical church and that everything believers have been looking forward to materially, objectively, and collectively (relative to His return) was accomplished in 70 AD and is now experienced spiritually, subjectively, and individually. Stay tuned.

Let’s open up the phone lines and get the operators going:

801

And while the ops take your calls we really want to stress the import and value to learning God’s word through music. And this is, in my opinion, the greatest application of that since Handel’s Messiah. Take a look.

Isaiah 9:6-7

RUN IN HIS WORDS INFO HERE
RUN IN HIS WORDS INFO HERE

The Bible, Part 3

Exploring Theology: The Trinitarian Discussion