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Worship and Theological Discussion

I'm on the ride of a lifetime I'm on a ship that's sailing to Uncharted Shore and I won't be coming back here anymore I'm on a way I'm on a mountain I'm on a roller coaster sailing cross the sky and the only trouble is in wondering why live from Salt Lake City Utah this is all of the matter where we do all we can to try to worship God in spirit and in truth we welcome you tonight I'm sea mccraine your host. We're going to cover the fourth point of tulip tonight with our special guest brother Matt slick. I want to make a few announcements to begin with first. We've added some interesting little uh Novelties to our website store if you're interested uh bumper stickers or laptop stickers or refrigerator stickers uh the first one is hate the doctrine love the indoctrinated campus church.tv the next one is absolutely free to love absolutely campus church.tv and the third is campus church.tv never leave your couch and uh these three uh one of these three will come to you free with any purchase of uh any products on the hotm store but we also have five I think that are novelty items that we're selling for $2.50.

Novelty Items

We enjoy their message at least I do uh this one is all church history stink that's Campus Church this one is campus Church where everyone is entitled to an opinion and they keep getting better this one is Jesus returned in 70 AD get over it I love it this one is how come amputees are never healed by television Faith healers and then the final one my favorite is finally a church full of psychos drunkards adulterers and and that's just the staff boom so uh if you're interested in any of those uh bumper sticker laptop stickers please go to www. hm. TV and you can check those out just a way for us to keep on top of your merchandising needs.

Before we hit the fourth point on Calvinism tonight with brother slick of Karm that stands for Christian apologetics Research Ministry can be seen at wwwc rm.org Great site I use it quite a bit to tell you the truth lot of great information there uh I want to say a few things first thanks to everybody who's written in and offered your insights and commentaries um love to get to some of those tonight if possible I don't know if we can if not in the weeks to come but um many of you have articulated some Amazing Ideas shown great love for Matt and myself and the process some of you have disagreed with me some of you have disagreed with Matt and yet you've done so with decorum and love and I have learned from you I've learned from your thoughts as I've read these emails they're valuable to me they have as much Merit as the insights of Scholars simply because they come by the spirit and that's the only way we can really know the truth.

Calvinism and Perspective

Also I want to let you know that Matt and I are working hard to be civil and strive to be civil with one another as we discuss these things. We're both strong personalities and yet Matt loves the Lord and I love the Lord and so we're just trying to talk about these things uh I want to also point out that Matt does not make a big deal over Calvinism uh he is a Christian first and foremost and I believe this about him he relates and he speaks to many Christians he's obviously skilled when it comes to his approach and uh so that's important to know that he's not a calvinist coming to preach Calvinism he's a Christian that is coming to talk about Calvinism and so I don't want to pigeon hole him as the calvinist I say that in part because the Calvinism that Matt represents and I say this with all respect does not represent what a lot of Calvinists think Calvinism represents this is where it gets difficult it gets tricky in fact there are some Calvinists who would think that Matt is a liberal or maybe even heretical in some of his calvinistic views for instance regarding free will or things like that or uh different positions I'm sure there are some Calvinists out there who would disagree with him.

This is the overall purpose and point of having Matt on the show and I hope this is coming through to show that good faithful Believers in Jesus Christ as the author and finisher of our faith will differ in my opinion we will differ on almost everything um and I mean everything and in the end we might individually believe that the faith has to be embraced objectively and that this is what it means and this is how it goes and you better and I would suggest that the faith is entirely subjective entirely known by the spirit and so it's really the fight I'm fighting for if that's possible the fight for a subjective position but Christianity is entirely subjective and objectivists who say you have to believe this way.

Differences in Scriptural Interpretation

I think they can stand on very, very few things. In the end, this is the difference between me and any denominational, any legalist, any Calvinist, any Armist, any Trinitarian, any Benari, any futurist, any pedist, any licentious liver of the Gospel. It's a difference probably between Matt and myself is that Matt is pretty open in terms of these things. I just want to make sure that we understand that the reason I want Matt to be on the show is to show that we have a good brother who knows his scripture and interprets them a certain way. Hopefully, you'll see me as a good brother who interprets them a lot differently, and yet in the end, can we get along? Sometimes it seems like it's the difference between the scribes and Jesus. It's all about interpretation, and to me, it seems like the New Testament is starting to become the law and it's starting to become "do it my way or the highway." Not starting to, it's always been that way. So the division, I'm hoping, can end. In my book, it's absolutely okay with God that Matt and I differ, that you and I differ, that you differ with Matt. But he's my brother in Christ, and the question is, when will it be okay for all brothers and sisters in the faith to accept that we see things differently and that we're going to approach our subjective walk in the way that we believe we are led according to what we know and let other people have the same privilege?

Irresistible Grace

We're starting tonight with a recording on me about irresistible Grace. The fourth Point goes about 14 or 15 minutes, then Matt will follow up with his pre-recorded talk on irresistible Grace, and then we'll come back, open up the phone lines, take your calls and comments. We already have one here on the screen we'll try to get to. Matt will be joining us at about 8:30. Let's pray. Lord, we seek you, need you, and pray that you will bless those who come seeking truth, and you'll help us to understand you in greater ways through what Matt has to say, what I have to say, and that we'll be able to discard what is not true. We love you, Lord, and we seek you now in Jesus' name, amen.

Unconditional Election

Last week we were supposed to talk about total depravity; we kind of overflowed into other points of the TULIP. Tonight Matt and I are going to discuss unconditional election. We're sitting in the studio pre-recording this and echoing the sentiment that God unconditionally elects some to salvation, a reiteration, in my opinion, of total depravity and the need for God to step in and save without any hold it right there. It was a slight glitch in the back room, so to speak, and so that was the unconditional election, the U of the TULIP, and we're trying to drum up the I of the TULIP which is irresistible Grace.

As an ex-JW and an ex-LDS, I was taught, and scriptures seemed to support, that the Earth should have been a paradise. Does it mean that Adam and Eve would have lived forever on Earth in a paradise? I would like to see you do a series on Heaven. God bless you in your ministry. Without it, I'd be spiritually lost. I don't know who said that, but it comes from somebody. I believe that yes, the garden would have continued to be a paradise similar to the Paradise that we go to when we die. I believe that Adam and Eve could have had children, and they could have asked God how do we make children. He would have told them to look at the animals, and they would have had children in that paradise and the propagation. But God knew that sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. would come in with the first man, and he knows all things, so he made ways for that to be reconciled in the end. That's what Jesus did, reconciled us to a paradise state in our hearts, part of a paradise kingdom that we're going to go to ultimately.

In all honesty, with Calvinist limited atonement, it really should apply only to the Jews since we know that God came to save the whole world. Then it's not limited because not just the Jews are saved. Calvinism is really confusing to me when my faith is in the plainness of God's word. I don't know who that was from either, but it's up on the screen, and I'm hoping that Matt will be able to answer that.

Calvinism and Irresistible Grace

The fourth point of five-point Calvinism is known as irresistible Grace or efficacious Grace. As a quick reminder, and this is just a summary because we're in a new show, point one is man is totally unable to choose God on his own for salvation. I see scripture as saying that man is willful, he's sinful, he's a creature but certainly not totally depraved. Point two is God elects some to be his unconditionally; the elect do nothing nor possess anything to merit being elected. I agree that he redeems unconditionally but don't see receiving his Redemption as a work that a man could boast all. I see it as being willing to open a door, and that to me is not something we boast about.

Point three is Jesus' atonement is applied to the elect alone and not to the world. I believe Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world and because of this, the whole world will be redeemed ultimately, not saved but reconciled to God through whatever measures he has foreordained and put in place because he is a loving God and he knew beforehand the choices and the direction most of us were going to go and it's all through Christ Jesus.

Efficacious Grace in Calvinism

The fourth point says that when God steps in and elects a person, that election is wholly effective; it is complete. From the Calvinist view, efficacious Grace is an immediate miraculous transformation of man's nature, and in an instant, the totally depraved sinner who has been unable and unwilling to make the slightest move toward God is given a new nature from God. He's born again into a life he never sought, he never desired. This is the important part to understand about efficacious Grace because anybody who's been born again knows that he steps in and he gives a new heart and he changes you and he saves you, and anybody who experienced that realizes that is true. But the important thing to understand about calvinistic efficacious Grace is that it is given before a person can believe. Those in a state of total inability cannot do anything toward God because we're totally unable.

In Calvinism, it makes sense that God would have to step in and present his grace before the person can say, "I believe." The Westminster Confession, a reformed confession, says: "All Those whom God has predestined unto life and those only he is pleased in his appointed and accepted time effectually to call by his word and spirit out of that state of deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. into which they are by nature to Grace and salvation by Jesus Christ, enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their Heart of Stone and giving them a heart of Flesh, renewing their wills and by his Almighty power determining them to that which is good and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ yet so as they must come most freely being made willing by his grace."

Questions and Biblical Interpretation

The calvinistic doctrine leaves many questions for me unanswered and in its wake I believe has created one heav of a non-biblical premise for millions of Christians worldwide. We're going to talk more about that when we talk about perseverance of the Saints. But first of all, we have to ask: where does the Bible ever teach that God must regenerate a man's nature before he can believe? Where does the Bible teach that God must regenerate a man's nature before he can believe? That's my question.

While the man-made teaching is certainly consistent with five-point Calvinism and total inability, it does not seem to be supported by any real passage of scripture. Maybe Matt will come up and prove me wrong, but I want to see a passage that says he has to step in and convert us before we can believe. All a person has to do is read the New and Old Testament narratives of people who hear invitations to follow God and ask: did God regenerate them before they could choose to accept an invitation, or did they choose to open the door and receive him? That's what we have to ask. What does the scripture present to us? Are people walking along now? There's a caveat that the calvinist can use, and that is: well, you know he's doing it if somebody decided to follow Jesus, it's because God gave him that instantaneous efficacious Grace. And we can say all that, but I want to see scripture that tells us that that's what happens and that's the reason that they followed. Because if we can see scripture that says and the only reason those who followed him was because God efficaciously changed them in an instant and gave them the power to do so, then I would believe it. But what I see is Jesus using methods with…

Understanding the Role of Faith and Grace

The woman at the well I see people teaching I see preaching I hear people who are listening and some are wondering well what about this and slowly they're being led into it. Now the Calvinists could say well that's cuz God he's changed and they just don't know it yet but just give me the scripture that proves that when did God grant Abraham a new nature before he made the decision to leave ER of the Caldes I mean did he did he grant that or did Abraham choose to leave ER Caldes. If the call was irresistible why does the bible praise Abraham's Faith they say it was by his faith it wouldn't be by that faith it would be by the fact the Bible would say and God touched Abraham and Abraham then was able to believe and did but we don't read that we just read that Abraham believed. If God made him do it what he did why the praise for doing something so totally passive absolutely passive leaving the Earth of Caldes.

Hearing of the Word

All through the New Testament the authors of scripture attribute the new birth or regeneration they attribute it all through to the hearing of the word not by an instantaneous action that precedes Faith that's a man-made idea. We can twist things we can use scripture here and there but it's a man-made idea the scripture plainly teaches that the word is taught and people say h hm and they start to hear. James 1:8 says he chose to give us birth through the word of truth that we might be a kind of first fruits of his creatures talking about the church and Believers being first fruits in the nation of Israel. There was a first Fruit Harvest and all that went to God then there was a giant Harvest that followed of the rest of the Orchard and then there was a gleaning of the Harvest of all that remained we are the first fruits James says of many creatures many we're not just the only ones we're not just like the Jews who say we're the elect leave us alone we're the chosen ones of God we are not alone we have a whole world out there that God is calling to we're the first fruits of his creation. 1 Peter 1:23 says for you have been born again not of perishable seed but of imperishable through the living and enduring word of God it is by the hearing of the word that we say.

The Debate on Grace

Now maybe the Calvinist says well when they hear the word they are immediately given this transformation of this efficacious Grace and are able to suddenly believe it there's the debate they would have to say that if you believe in total depravity but if you say you know God is calling we're not totally depraved there's an ability to hear like I think we proved last night in Scripture that people were able to hear and they're able to open the door or not. I think that it opens the door for saying Hey listen you can believe first and then have God change your heart this is where all the debate lies. It is the preaching of the Gospel in most cases most cases not all God never he rarely gives us an all because he wants this tension between us but in most cases the preaching of the gospel and the hearing of the Gospel that God has established to get people to believe not puppeteering of God taking depraved IO and turning him into a son. Calvinist will sometimes use the conversion of Lydia in Acts 164 to prove the Calvinist point of irresistible Grace because scripture tells us that uh Lydia it doesn't work she was already a worshipper of God so we can't use that example uh she was not a totally depraved corpse when she came to believe. The picture of Lazarus being raised from the dead is often tempted to use to prove the point of total depravity and irresistible Grace that he was laying there dead in the grave and Jesus called him forth but two points about that one he followed Jesus F he was already following Jesus and two it was the word spoken that got Lazarus to come back to life it's the word the Calvinist says it is this imputation of Almighty Sovereign God into people that allows them to then believe and I just think that that's not consistent with what the Bible says Plus in other words passages that speak of God changing a man's heart or giving someone a new one do not necessarily support the Calvinist doctrine of affectatious grace it is not uncommon for scripture to speak of man's inability to do things without Divine influence but it doesn't mean that men are completely passive. This is this mountain you have to stand on to embrace all this in my estimation there seems to be a reciprocity going on in scripture God is calling man is responding or not and will reap accordingly draw near to God He will draw near to you now I realize that.

Exploring Free Will and Divine Influence

was given to Believers but nevertheless I believe it it holds for anyone certainly the heart of man needs a heart toward God and his righteousness but we have to honestly admit that while sometimes the Bible tells us that God changes the heart it also shows how there are times when an individual changes their heart both are true in Scripture we do have passages like Deuteronomy 36 that seem to support the Cal calvinist stance it says the Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and your hearts of your descendants so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul and live I agree with that the Lord does that sometimes but conversely conversely Jeremiah 4:4 says circumcise yourselves to the Lord circumcise your hearts you men of Judah and people of Jerusalem we have have both being presented both uh uh options inspired texts speak of the Divine side and the human side again Psalms 11936 the psalmist asks that his heart might be inclined by God toward keeping the Commandments he prays that his heart might be there how is he doing that but later on in the same Psalm verse 112 the writer says that that he had inclined his own heart to do it he had inclined his own heart there is a freedom another problem I have with Calvinism is that in my opinion God being good and merciful and just is a god of Liberty and freedom he is not a god of tyranny he is not a God that forces anything anything he does get his way he will have his ways but he doesn't force it it is through Free Will and drawing and loving and if people come to him by faith and love fine if they come to him by hell and Lake of Fire whatever it's going to be but bottom line he will have his way and it's not by force of any sort I'm convinced that in an effort to systemat systemize the biblical message so to offer certainty to people they want a system we live for systems because they give us certainty and they allow us to have comfort and the proponents of certainty are the most popular you be a proponent of we're not sure and you will find your audiences dwindle because by Nature we want concrete answers to everything Calvinism gives this in a system but the system fails there is simply far too many counter examples to every one of the steps to allow for this system to be completely right God has allowed for such paradoxes to exist providing ample examples from his inspired word for uh other views to find a home that's been the message um other views are viable I read I believe with the same urgency Ardent nature the word of God I was transformed at the side of the road and it changed my life I asked him I was broken my life was changed I opened the door I did no works I can't boast of it why he chose me like Matt said I don't know he does that he's willing to do it for all his son suffered so that can be available to all and he is a god of love who is not coercing things and not limiting things he is making it open to everybody and that's the beautiful message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ so I hope we can continue to have the dialogues and learn to get along Matt slick is up

Understanding Irresistible Grace

next Matt slick is up now has a attempted to refute the idea of of irresistible Grace uh now Sean and I get along off camera so I can tease him a little bit but what is irresistible Grace this is TP total depravity unconditional election limited atonement irresistible Grace what does irresistible Grace means well unfortunately the the phrase kind of suggests a forceable kind of a yanking you in you're kicking and screaming and he makes you believe that's not what the the phrase irresistible Grace means what it really means is that when it's time for regeneration when it's time for you to be born again you cannot successfully resist that effort of God to change you and make you a new creature in Christ second Corinthians 5:17 that God brings you to that place of Faith he brings you to that place of Faith because he regenerates you so irresistible Grace is the grace that God gives that cannot be successfully resisted at this issue and time of being born again that's what it's dealing with it does not mean that during a person's life that they might resist God I did that doesn't mean that they might want something else besides God want some sin that certainly was my case that's not what irresistible Grace means when it's time for you to be born again God in his great spiritual movement causes you to be born again first Peter

The Nature of Spiritual Regeneration

13 God causes that you're born again you don't cause it yourself now think about this if you're caused to be born again because of your

The Role of God in Regeneration

Faith let's say that you believe and that causes you to be born again. Well, wait a minute, who does the regeneration? Is it you, is it this thing called faith, or is it God himself? Does God himself reach, so to speak, into you and change you? Does he live in you as it says Jesus says in John 14:23 the father and he will come and make their abode in you? Or you can go to John 3:3-8 where Jesus says the spirit comes and he lives in us and we are born again. Does this happen because we believe that God is waiting on the outside of our hearts, on the outside of our souls and saying look, please just believe. I'm urging you because a lot of times what I'll say is this is the blonde-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian Surfer Jesus who's dressed in a woman's nightgown standing at the door of your heart asking permission to come in. Please can you just let me in because you know I want to save you, but it's up to you and your wisdom. It's up to you and your ability, it's up to you and your will, and I'm just out here and when you believe then I'll come in and I'll make you born again.

Biblical Perspective on Being Born Again

That's wishful thinking. It is unbiblical, it's man-centered, it's idolatrous, it's heretical. See, the Bible says God causes us to be born again. Now, I'm going to read a couple of verses here to John 1:12-13. I want you to understand what God says about this thing, this is what it says: "But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to be called the children of God, those who believe in his name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man." You get that? It specifically says, "nor of the will of man." If it's true that you have to believe before you get regenerated, then that verse can't be there. You're born and talking about being born again and believing in God and receiving Christ, who are born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, not of the will of man.

God's Will in Salvation

Now, John 9:14, God is talking through Paul the Apostle in 9:14. I really suggest you study verses 9-23, but in verse 14 he says, "it does not depend upon the man who wills or the man who runs but upon God who has mercy." It specifically states not it's because of the man, just as John 1:13 says, not because of the will of the man. It specifically states it and because it specifically states it, you should believe it, you should believe what it says. Now, Sean asked a question and I wrote it down so if I can find this question quickly here: show me a passage that says God has to step in first in order to save them before they could be saved. Well, we don't want to say show me a passage that says that you have to wear a shirt on Tuesday that's blue. It's like saying show me a passage, I'm going to give a narrow construct and it has to fit this construct in order for it to be true. It's not how we do things. What we're supposed to do is say what does the scripture teach and we draw conclusions out of what it says. Does it say that God changes us? Yes, it does. Does it say he causes us to be born again? 1 Peter 1:3, yes, he does. Does he say he does it not by our will but by his will? Yes, he does, John 1:13. Does he say it does not depend upon the will of man but upon the will of God as it does, John 9:14? Does it also say that Jesus says in John 6:44, "you cannot come to me unless the father draws you," and that word draw in the Greek is also translated into the word drag? You can't come to me unless he is dragging you in. In John 6:65, this grace of God, you cannot come to me, Jesus says, unless it's been granted to you from the father. Now, notice what it says: you cannot come to me unless it's been granted to you by God the father. Now, wait a minute, if it's merely up to the individual to believe then why did Jesus say you can't come to me unless it's been granted to you from the father? Why would he say that you cannot if it's of your own will? And if your faith gets you regenerated then it would not be true that you cannot come to me. This has been granted to you from the father.

Understanding Regeneration and Faith

We don't say faith precedes regeneration but don't make the mistake of thinking it's temporal. That is a temporal order like I clap my hands here, I clap my hands here first and second, roughly a second between them. That's what we talk about temporal order. That's not what's being spoken of in reformed theology when we say that faith, or excuse me, that regeneration precedes Faith.

Now think about this. Let's look at it temporally. If Faith precedes regeneration as in let's just say two seconds, and I'm not going to say it is two seconds or not two seconds, but just for the sake of argument so that we can get a little grasp on this. If it's you believe and then two seconds later you're regenerated, then what you have is for two seconds is you have someone who's a Believer who's also not regenerated. That's a problem. Now let's reverse those and look at the temporal context. Let's say you're regenerated and 2 seconds later then you believe. Well that's a problem because then you have a regenerated person for a period of time who's not even a believer, and that can't work.

Logical Progression in Reformed Theology

What we say in reformed theology is that we say it's a logical progression. I went over this before; I'll do it again here. That regeneration precedes Faith logically, not temporally. The illustration I use is a light bulb. Whenever you flip a switch and electricity is present in the light bulb, then light is automatically the result of that electricity. Faith is automatically the result of that regeneration when God irresistibly through his grace changes you. The result is that you will believe. That's why it says you're born again not of your own will, John 1:13, does not depend upon the man who Wills or the man who runs but upon God who has Mercy, Romans 9:14.

Well, that he brought us into the Faith by the exertion of his will, James 1:18. This is by the work of God and Sean quoted Lydia in Acts 16:14, and what that says there is that God opened her mind to respond to the things spoken of by Paul. She had to have her mind opened. Jesus even says in Luke 24:45, where it says there in Luke that he opened the minds of the disciples that they would understand the scripture. This is what God does; he grants that we believe, Philippians 1:29. He works the believing in US, John 6:28-29.

The Work of God in Belief

Now, this is what's interesting. People will say no, in their depravity, they're the ones able to believe, they're the ones able to, and then it results in regeneration. Well, wait a minute. The Bible says this is the work of God, that you believe on whom he is sent. It's not the work of man; God does it. The reason you believe is because of the work of God changing you. The reason you do is because in his irresistible Grace when it's time for you to be born again, he draws you and he changes you. You cannot successfully resist that because it's God, and you're simply a sinner. You're simply a weak creature who cannot thwart the will and The Sovereign decree of God when he calls you into his kingdom. That's what irresistible Grace means. It's perfectly scriptural, it's consistent with scripture, and it's logical.

Now again, I want to focus a little bit on this one issue. A lot of people like the idea that it's up to them to believe. It's up to them to believe and I ask people this question, those who resist this idea of irresistible Grace, the people who say no, it's not true. I ask them, you believed, right? Yes. Do you take credit for your believing? It's a question I ask them. Do you take credit for it? I've actually had some say, oh of course I take credit for believing. I say okay, let me ask you, so before you became a Christian you were a slave of sin, a hater of God, who could do no good, and you loved evil instead of righteousness. You're full of evil and you just were able to believe in the wisdom of your own heart. I've had people say yes. See, well we call that Pride. We call that Pride. Look how good I was even in the midst of my sin, I was able to choose God. People take credit for their own believing, and you know they just walk around and they kind of they sit there like that, yeah, you know, hey I was wise enough to pick God but you were not.

Now, I'm not trying to mock people who hold that position because most aren't like that in a boastful arrogant kind of a way, but sometimes what I'd like to do is exaggerate to make a point. Is

The Concept of Irresistible Grace

Chose and God responded to my choice is that what's going on in your heart and your mind? If that's the case, search your heart, search your mind to see if there is any pride there. I'm not accusing you, but ask the question of yourself. See if you're saying something to the effect of, "Lord, thank you for not making me like that other person over there, that I was able to choose, that I was able to see." We have to be careful that we're not prideful and arrogant. Now, I'm not pointing fingers at you without pointing at myself. You know what? I got a lot of pride, a lot of arrogance. My wife will tell you, my friends will tell you that's the case, and I'm saved only by the grace of God, and I'm kept by the grace of God, and that's just how it is.

Biblical Basis for Irresistible Grace

But here's the thing: God irresistibly draws us, he irresistibly changes us, and the scriptures say—I've already declared, already clearly tell us—we're caused to be born again. 1 Peter 1:3, just look in the NASB Bible, you'll see us what it says. We don't cause ourselves to be born again. We don't cause the regeneration to be because we believe where God is waiting in the wings, just knocking on the door of your heart, "Please let me in, please let me in." It's up to you, it's up to your wisdom. But then why? Why would Jesus say, "You can't even come to me unless the Father draws you?" You can't even come to me unless it's been granted to you from the Father, John 6:65. If it's up to him just knocking the door of your heart, "Please let me in," then why does it say you can't come to me unless it's been granted to you from God the Father? Why would he say to you, "It has been granted to believe, it's been granted." Who granted it to you? God.

The Humbling Reality of Grace

The reason you believe is because of what God has done in you. The reason you believe and you love God is because of what God has done in you. Give him all the glory. It doesn't mean that you're special; it means that you are a receiver of the grace of God. It's actually humbling to believe this. It's actually, well, humbling. Why would God give you that? Don't know. I'm a man who shook his fist up in the air at God, yelling at him to leave him alone, leave me alone, Lord. Yet God is using me. If God had listened to my will and my sinfulness, I wouldn't be here. I'd be in Hell one way or another. But God, in his mercy, called me forth. God, in his mercy and his grace, made me born again. God, in his mercy, loved me before the foundation of the world, knowing completely what I am internally, and he loves me in spite of me. He loves me because of who he is. So when it came time for me to be born again, God irresistibly changed me. His grace came upon me, and I was born again, and I understood who he was. I understood that the word was his. I understood that I was a sinner saved by grace. It's not something I boast about. It's not something I say, "Look at me, I'm a chosen person, I'm elected, I'm great." On the contrary, why did he save me? I don't know. Why does he use me? I don't know. I'm not good enough; I'm not wise enough; I'm not smart enough. But he is good, and he is wise. He knows all things, and he decided to condescend to my level and use a broken vessel full of pride and arrogance, full of sin, full of covetousness, and send me to be used in his mission for his glory, and he receives all the glory. He irresistibly changed me. His grace could not be successfully resisted by my sinful heart. That's what irresistible grace is, it's biblical, it's right there in scripture. I just ask you, look, look at the scriptures and look at your heart. Were you wise enough? Were you good enough to make the choice, or did God change your nature? And the result of that change of the nature is that you believed. Didn't force you; he changed you, made a new creature out of you, 2 Corinthians 5:17, and then you were enabled to believe by him, and you freely chose to believe because of his regenerative work. That's what I believe, that's what I hope you do too. Amen.

Okay, welcome back. We're working to get Matt up on the phone through Skype or whatever it is

Exploring the Concept of Divine Pleasure

Ezekiel 18:32 and 33:11 state that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. However, Deuteronomy 28:63 and 1 Samuel 2:25 suggest that the Lord does delight in destroying the wicked, using the Hebrew word "shaat," which is also translated as pleasure in Ezekiel. The solution to this seeming contradiction lies in understanding the context of each scripture. It’s important to note that the context is always key. I must confess that I haven't studied these contexts in a while, so I'm not able to provide an accurate assessment. That reminds me, I need to correct a previous error; I was quoting Romans 9:14 when I meant Romans 9:16.

The Role of Intellectualism in Faith

After listening to some critiques, I can understand why there were reformers after Calvin. There is an argument that my approach is too intellectual, creating false premises to argue against. However, labeling someone as overly intellectual is just an opinion and an attack on character. It doesn't carry weight in logical discourse. The premise of being slightly false is incorrect; something is either false or not. Is it wrong to be intellectual? Certainly not. God encourages us to reason together, to be transformed by renewing our mind, and to love Him with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind. In Acts 17, Paul uses reason to engage with others. Unfortunately, anti-intellectualism is pervasive in the Christian church, leading people to trust emotions over the mind.

Hyper Calvinism and Evangelism

There are other forms of Calvinism, such as hyper Calvinism, which is considered heretical. Hyper Calvinism suggests that evangelism is unnecessary because God will bring people to salvation without human intervention. This view is unbiblical, as the Bible commands us to evangelize and witness. Hyper Calvinists use scripture as an excuse to do nothing, which is not scriptural. Even Calvinists can make mistakes, and it's important to recognize that hyper Calvinism is heretical, despite hyper Calvinists believing they have justification.

Understanding Calvinism and Christian Doctrine

For their stances, whatever they may be and as erroneous as you think they are, the question is, I'm trying to understand really what you're asking us to do is to believe your interpretation of scripture. The hyper-Calvinist is asking us to believe theirs. I'm asking people to consider mine; Arminius says the same. So, Matt, when we're all doing that, in the end, isn't it really up to the individual and the spirit and their desire to know the truth? Well, Romans 14:1-12 says that we are not to divide and cast judgment over debatable issues. Now, you might not hear too many Calvinists say what I'm going to say, and I may get some flack for this, but the Five Points of Calvinism are a systemized understanding of scripture based on a lot of scripture based on what seems to be there. But it does not mean that everything that Calvinism teaches in all its areas is always correct. What we have to do is look at what the word of God says.

The Role of Calvinism in Christianity

Now, I say even we Calvinists are going to be corrected when we get to heaven. Sometimes I like to say we have God in a doctrinal box and don't want to let them out. Well, the thing is, I've met Calvinists; I'm like, are you kidding me? How can you think that? Why don't you not go out and witness? Why don't you go out do? But almost all, for example, all the open-air preachers I know are 5-point Calvinists. They're out there witnessing all the time. They're going and doing it because they believe the totality of scripture, etc. But anyway, back to Romans 14, we're not to pass judgment on people who have differences of opinions. So people say they're not Calvinist. I don't care as long as they believe in the essentials of the Christian faith. That's what I'm concerned about. I preach Jesus and him crucified. That's the essential, but not the Five Points of Calvinism. That's not an essential matter, even though some Calvinists will say the Five Points of Calvinism is the same thing as the gospel, which I disagree with.

Essential Doctrines of Christianity

Okay, so I'm really glad to hear you say that we don't divide on disputable matters, praise God coming from Matt Slick, and I find the tenor of most of your arguments on Karm to support that. But let me ask you, Matt, so then, and I'm allowing you to bring up the different words that you know, but what are, in your estimation, the irrefutable doctrines of Christianity that are to be disputed and thought over in terms of knowing whether someone's a Christian or not? And summarize those as quickly as possible. I'll do as quick as I can. If you go to Karm and you look up essential doctrines of Christianity, you can see what's there.

Primary and Secondary Essentials

I have what's called a differentiation of essential versus non-essential doctrines, essential or primary and secondary. Excuse me, primary and secondary Essentials. Primary Essentials are those Essentials the Bible declares are essential. Okay, so primary Essentials here, folks, primary Essentials are those that God in the word has declared are essential. For example, Jesus says unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins. That's John 8:24. That's it. That's it. It's got a statement with a warning on it. You go to 1 Corinthians 15:14; if Christ be not raised, our faith is in vain. So there are at least five like this, and I won't take too much time going through all the scriptures, but the deity of Christ is one of them. It's got the verse salvation by grace; you go to Romans 5 on that one with the warning about faith alone, the resurrection of Christ, which I mentioned, the gospel out of Galatians 1:8-9; if we aren't, you know, preach the gospel contrary we preach out be a curse monotheism believing in the true and living God and that's out of Exodus 20 Ten Commandments.

Now, what I call the secondary Essentials are the essentials that follow out of those. For example, the deity of Christ, you really can't defend that if you don't believe in the Virgin birth, for example, Matthew 1:25. But there's no place in scripture that says the Virgin birth is an essential Doctrine or if thou nost believe in the Virgin birth, Thou shalt burn in hell. It doesn't say anything like that any place. And then the doctrine of the Trinity is also what I call a secondary essential in the faith. It's not explicitly declared in scripture, but it seems to be derivatively arrived at. So I go with the primaries, and you can go to the website also. You

Understanding Calvinism

come the father but through me well that's a secondary what by my definition because there's no curse applied to it but it's a statement that it's the only way so you know is it a primary or secondary it's kind of one foot in both if you get what I'm saying I get it yeah okay here's a question again from Idaho interesting that he states that Calvinists won't be corrected until they get to heaven is he suggesting they aren't teachable in this life LOL it appears so we have Comics out there Matt they're they're comedians so smile with it said yeah I never said we won't be corrected until I said we're going to be all of us are going to be corrected when we get to heaven and when someone I consider things like that to be it's a misrepresentation and a personal attack

Views on Teachability in Calvinism

okay Matt I and I get that listen let me ask you something uh I want to talk to you about Freedom sure part of my problem with the uh explanation of Calvinism about