Heart of the Matter Broadcast

February 12th, 2008

From the “Mecca of Mormonism,” this is HEART OF THE MATTERTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology.! I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.

Events and Updates

Last night we had a wonderful book signing at Gift of Grace Christian Supply in Springville, Utah. Tonight, at Denny’s on 250 West and 500 South, we have our regular Pastor in the Pub right after the show. In March, we’ll have our monthly TRAVELING PASTOR in TOOELE! On March 3rd, join us at Denny’s at 925 North Main Street from 6 to 8 pm to eat and greet. An open water baptism will also take place, with the location to be announced.

Reflections on Mitt Romney

So, Mormon Mitt Romney abandoned the race. I sort of feel bad for him – for the person Mitt Romney – because like I’ve said before, I think he would have made a fine president and he seems to be a nice fellow. But it seems America was not ready to vote an active Mormon into office. A recent Wall Street Journal article mentions that the LDS church is dismayed at the amount of venom that still exists toward Mormonism, so much so that Americans are more willing to elect a woman or a black man into this sacred office over a faithful member of “the Church!” Certainly, there exists some hysteria and fear over Mormonism that is generally unwarranted, but just the facts of the LDS religious history coupled with their present-day practices seem to be enough to scare the voting public away.

Maybe this will be enough to get the LDS leadership to renounce, reform, and repent from the church’s insistence on supporting everything Joseph Smith claimed as truth. In the least, President Monson should renounce Joseph’s teachings on God the Father having a body of flesh and bone, that Man can become a God, that the Pearl of Great Price is scripture, that the practice of polygamy was ever right, and embrace the biblical truth that salvation comes only by the grace of God through faith on the shed blood of Jesus – meaning men and women living with God after this life.

A Message for Pastors

Now, let me flip the coin right over and just take a minute to make everyone happy with Heart of the Matter. But I have a message for the Christian Pastors in Idaho and Utah.

Teach the Word.

The LORD said through the prophet Jeremiah: (Jeremiah 3:15) And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. Pastors are to FEED the flock with knowledge and understanding of the Word of God. Now, in Jeremiah’s day, the Pastors of the Children of Israel led them astray because they stopped teaching the Word. This caused them to ask in Jeremiah 15, “Where is the word of the LORD? let it come now.” But it never came. And Israel crumbled into desolation, forced into Babylonian captivity. Why?

Jeremiah 10:21 says, “For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.” Which caused the LORD to say to the Pastors (Jer 23:1), Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!

Listen, there is no way in the world the LORD GOD is going to cause Mormonism to fall until the Christian churches in this state, and in Idaho, even in the United States, at least, have repented of their man-centered ways and start teaching the Word of God, verse by verseTGNN’s Bible teaching series—book-by-book, through the lens of fulfillment and spiritual liberty.. I’m not talking about using one verse and building an entire sermon on it. I’m talking about reading through the Word of God and teaching what it says and what it means. Burn your stinking formulas to become a mega Church. Pray that you will choke on your entertaining, supersonic, multi-media, candy-coated messages. Vomit out your “Harry Potter is of the Devil” series and teach the WORD of God to the people.

Feed them, Pastors, and repent of the imaginations of your heart to get bigger faster. And if you are sitting in a church that week after week is feeding you eye candy and stories, walk the hell out, and find a church where the Pastor is a pastor – meaning He is feeding the flock with knowledge and understanding of the Word of God.

Now don’t email me whining all over the place about what I’ve said tonight – I don’t care about your justifications or proofs – JUST REPENT AND TEACH THE WORD.

Examination of Biblical Passages

Bible that the LDS will use to justify their “Joseph-originated” idea that God has a father who has a father who has a father.

Before we enter into tonight’s discussion on Satan, let’s examine these passages. The three passages are

1st Corinthians 8:5,
John 10:34, and
Revelation 1:6.

Let’s read and review:

First to a missionary favorite, 1st Corinthians 8:5-6

1st Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

John 10:34 “Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?”

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Context of the Passages

What is the context of these passages? First, Paul was talking to the people of Corinth, which was a Grecian city. It was noted for its wealth, and for the luxurious and immoral and vicious habits of the people. They had a pagan temple in Corinth where they would worship their pagan god’s and idols and offer up meaty sacrifices to them.

These heathens at Corinth worshipped some gods that were supposed to dwell in heaven, some that were supposed to reside on earth, and others that presided over the inferior regions of the cosmos, like Pluto. Where Paul says “Whether in heaven,” he could have been alluding to the sun, moon, and stars or to their celestial deities – those that were supposed to reside in heaven like Jupiter, Juno, or Mercury. Where he says “or in earth” he is referring to the pagan gods (LOWER CASE G) that rule on earth, like Ceres, Neptune, etc.

The contextual catch for this simple verse is found in verse six: This passage makes the discussion here consistent with the REST of the Word which teaches and preaches ONE God only.

Jesus' Response to the Jews

The next misused passage – John 10:34 – where Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees who are saying He has blasphemed by calling Himself the Son of God. The passage quotes Jesus as saying: We touched on this when a caller brought it up last week. Jesus meets the rabbis on their own ground in a thoroughly Jewish way when He responds to them.

First of all, the “G” in God’s is lower case and it refers to Elohim, or the title of a god human or deific. Remember last week where we said Elohim can refer to the title of God or to men? Okay. The OT reference Jesus quotes here is in reference to human judges or magistrates, who do the work of God on earth and were called “elohah” or lower case gods. It’s Jesus hitting the Jews with their own logic, tying them up with reason from which they had no reply. His response has nothing to do with Men being God’s in embryo or with the fact that there are many God’s like unto Jehovah God. The comment is almost tongue in cheek with Jesus as the Jews are irate that He has likened Himself to God and He uses the Word itself to justify this title.

Analysis of Revelation 1:6

Finally, the LDS may use Revelation 1:6 to support their idea that God has great, great, great grandfathers. This is a doozie! Listen.

If a Latter-day Saint ever uses this on you, you are in a great position to crush them with context. “And hath made us kings and priests . . . ” This is speaking of the Royal priesthood all believers share with Jesus their King.

“. . .Unto God and His Father . . .” and this is speaking of the believers royal priesthood coming through Jesus (God) and His Father. Bottom line, Revelation 1:6 is simply referring to Jesus as God, not the Father and His Father. It is speaking of Jesus (God) and His Father (the Father).

Any and every commentator, especially those with an understanding of the Greek) completely support this view – and yet, the LDS missionaries and members will at times pull it out and use it so as to incorrectly support Joseph’s fantasy doctrine. Get it?

All right, let’s have a Word of Prayer.

Prayer Prayer

The Anointed Cherub

Ezekiel 28:11 ¶ Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Satan's Titles and Power

The name means “adversary” and “accuser” and “the adversary.” In the New Testament “Satan” is used interchangeably with “Diabolos,” or the devil, more than thirty times. He is also called "the dragon," and "the old serpent" in Revelation 12:9; 20:2, "the prince of this world" in John 12:31 and 14:30, "the prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2, "the god of this world" in 2nd Corinthians 4:4, and "the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience" in Ephesians 2:2. He is also called "Beelzebub, the prince of the devils" (Mt 12:24).

His power is very great in the world. He is described as a "roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour" (1Pe 5:8), and people are said to be "taken captive by him" (2Ti 2:26). Christians are warned against his "devices" (2Co 2:11), and called on to "resist" him (James 4:7). Hebrews interestingly says that he “had the power of deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God.,” (Hebrews 2:14).

We know from Corinthians that Satan can transform himself into an angel of light. We also know he can work all sorts of powers and wonders.

Latter-day Saints Beliefs

First time caller! LDS first! Turn your TV’s down and have a question/comment ready. On a radio program here in Salt Lake City, after presidential candidate Mitt Romney announced that he was quitting the race, talk show host ______________ made the comment – the ridiculous comment – that Romney lost the republican nod because Huckabee publicly said “Don’t Mormon’s believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?”

In light of LDS teachings and doctrine, what was wrong with the question? As mentioned, Latter-day Saints believe that every single human being that has lived, is living, or will live on this earth “pre-existed” in a spirit world prior to coming to this earth. All of these spirits were formed by God (and his wife or wives) out of intelligent spirit-matter which, according to Joseph Smith, Jr., have always existed as some kind of spiritual intelligence.

According to the Pearl of Great Price – a book of scripture the LDS hold as viable as the Bible – and the revelations of Joseph Smith – God (the father) gathered these intelligences in some unknown way, and formed spirit children out of them. Among these spirit children were those that were at the top of the glory pyramid (“exceedingly bright and exceptional”) and then all the rest of these spirit beings sort of trail down in gradations of glory. The brightest of these spirit formations was Jesus, who followed closely by a being the LDS call “Lucifer,” which…

Concept of Spirit Brothers

means “Son or Star of the Morning or Morning Star or Day Star.”

Then the most grand Patriarchs and prophets like Abraham were put together, followed by leaders in the Mormon Church, members of the Mormon church here on earth, and then the rest of the inhabitants of earth. As a point of pure conjecture among many LDS leaders, teachers and members, it was long assumed – at least when I was a member and before – that black people were a compilation of the lowest spirit intelligences in the cosmos. When people ask: “Isn’t the Devil the brother of Jesus in Mormonism?” this is to what they are referring. And yes, they are spirit brothers – like the rest of us – are spirit brothers and sisters of Jesus . . . and the being who was once called Lucifer.

Jesus and Lucifer

Now to the LDS, this teaching is perfectly reasonable. Since Jesus Himself was a spirit child of God the Father – a created being – then all the rest of the myth-characters make sense. Jesus was a created spirit child, Lucifer was a created spirit child, we were created spirit children.

To the Christian ear, however, the idea is categorically reprehensible. You see, Bible believing Christians have read the manual and understand Jesus according to its descriptions, not the interpretations of Man. And the Bible is manifestly clear that Jesus is an uncreated being, that He was in the beginning, the Alpha and Omega, and that He, in fact, created all things. All things. To put Him in the same class as the Devil or Man or Angels is just unconscionable to regenerated Christians.

Now take a moment and ask yourself: Does the doctrine of Jesus being our spirit brother make you want to worship Him more or less than the doctrine that He is God who created all things, then came down and offered Himself for you and your sins? What teaching causes more adoration for the Lord in your heart, and what teaching legitimizes Him more in your heart?

The Pre-Existence Narrative

(BEAT)

Now after the supposed creation of Jesus, and this spirit being they called Lucifer, and the rest of us, the LDS continue forward with the pre-existence fable by stating that in order for all of us spirit children to have the opportunity to progress, God the Father presented a plan where we would all get to come to earth and get bodies, and thereby learn to walk by faith; returning to live with Him again if we are found faithful at the end of our mortal probation.

Lucifer, not liking God’s plan, came up with a plan of his own whereby he would come down to earth and force all of God’s children to comply to the rules so that no one would be lost. Then, as a result of his great work in forcing all of God’s children back to heaven, he – Lucifer – would get all the glory. Jesus offered to come to earth and give His life as a ransom for sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. and to give people the freedom to choose.

God rejected Lucifer’s proposal, and the spirit children of God divided – two thirds going with God and one third of them rebelling with Lucifer. A war in heaven broke out and in the end, Lucifer and his angels lost, and Lucifer, being cast down to earth with his angels, became “Satan” or the Devil, who spends all his time and energy trying to get human beings who did not follow him and his plan, to sin and fight against God the Father.

Interpretation of "Lucifer"

Now, allow me to talk about this name “Lucifer” for a moment. In the Old Testament, there is a passage in Isaiah (14:12) which reads:

“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!”

Joseph Smith took this Bible passage, applied the name to Satan, incorporated the name into the story of his falling in the pre-existence, and has gotten the LDS to commonly refer to Satan, prior to his fall from grace, as Lucifer. This is not such a big deal as many Christians made the same error in thinking that a pre-earth name for Satan was Lucifer based on the same passage. The problem lies in the fact that Joseph did not teach referentially or as a process of discovery, but taught that his insights came directly from God, and are therefore not subject to revision. But the context of this verse is explicitly speaking about Nebuchadnezzar and the text says

The Origins and Nature of Satan According to Christianity

Nothing at all concerning Satan, nor his fall, nor his name ever being Lucifer. In fact, “Lucifer” means "day star," and this is a title that truly belongs to Christ – "the bright and morning star” of Revelation 22.

So where do Christians think Satan came from? What does the Bible have to say on the topic, and how do the LDS use biblical passages to support their extra-biblical beliefs? When it comes to the topic of Satan, Christians know very little about his origins, and what we do know in reference to Him is quite inconclusive. When a person or institution claims to have most of the answers to the unknown, it’s time to be very cautious of that person or institution.

Scriptural Interpretations of Satan's Origins

Now, there are nine verses in the book of Ezekiel that many Christians believe speak of Satan – his beginnings, and what placed him as the darkness of this world. Literally, these passages are NOT about Satan, but are about the King of Tyre, as the chapter before where these verses are found predicts the fall of Tyre. But it is possible, like many other passages of scripture in the Old Testament, that there is a secondary application of these passages (even a tertiary) and that they speak to who Satan was and is. Let’s read them.

Much of this could be applied to Satan. But in the end, Christians do not have a definitive answer as to the exact origins of him. Most believe he was a cherubim – an angel – who, because of pride, fell from grace and the service of God in heaven. I personally believe these passages in Ezekiel speak to both the King of Tyre and to Satan’s existence and fall.

Satan's Role and Place in Christianity

Now, this is what the Word says about Satan. Christians also know from the Book of Job that Satan answers to God – as rebellious and independent as he is – and that he must be obedient to God’s rule and will . . . but that God allows Satan to test and tempt and try humanity.

There are several Bible verses the LDS use to support their teachings that Satan was a created spirit just like Jesus (and just like us) who fell from God’s presence after a war in heaven. In addition to Isaiah 14:12, these other verses include:

Job 38:7
Revelation 12:7
And 2nd Peter 2:4

Let’s take a quick look at them before we go to the phones.

In Job 38:7, God asks Job where he was in the beginning. He asks, “Where were you . . .? “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” To the LDS mind, this is evidence that there was a pre-existence, that a plan was presented, which caused the “sons of God” to “shout for joy.”

Strangely, some LDS believe that God’s question of Job, “Where were you when the morning stars sang together for joy” was God reminding Job that he was, in fact, there?! But to Christians, the phrase, “Where were you when the morning stars sang together” was God referring to angels – who are a creation altogether different than man – and was God’s way of telling Job, “wake up, dude. You weren’t even around, yet.” If Job had been there when the “morning stars sang together” and “the Sons of God shouted,” he would have told God – “I was there!” I mean, doesn’t this make sense? Interestingly enough, the Chaldee has, "All the troops of angels," instead of the phrase “And all the Sons of God shouted.”

Now the word is replete with references to angels being a different order and having been created at a different time than man. We know there are angels that exist to merely praise God, to endlessly shout “Holy, Holy, Holy” and that they are organized into troops and a hierarchy, so their existence as part of heaven is plausible.

Next we have a great set of verses that the LDS use to confirm the fable of their being involved in this war in heaven. Now, it is nice to take passages and apply them to whatever you want. The passages in Revelation 12 are taken out of context and used to support Joseph’s tall tales!

Listen:

Revelation 12:7-9

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the

Interpretations of Biblical Passages

Whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

First and foremost, there are all sorts of interpretations of what this passage means – especially in light of the Book of RevelationA symbolic prophecy fulfilled in 70 A.D.—not a prediction of future global events.. And the meanings are profoundly scriptural with all ignoring the LDS idea of it being a pre-existent war. But even – even – if there was a war in heaven before the world was, these passages do not mean we were there!

LDS Interpretations and Biblical Context

This was the great skill of Joseph – to take a verse or set of verses, remove them from their context, and use them as a proof text for his imaginative teachings.

A final verse the LDS missionaries may use is 2nd Peter 2:4 says

“ . . . God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”

Naturally, the LDS view this passage as more support for their teaching of a pre-existent war involving all humanity. It is no mystery that God spared not the angels that sinned against Him nor that He will deliver them into chains of darkness, but like the other verses from the Bible, these passages do not support the extra-biblical ideas taught by Joseph Smith.

Upcoming Topic on Joseph’s Myths

The topic of Satan and Jesus being spiritual brothers in a pre-existence in which we all shared is not an exciting one, but it had to be covered to present the next segment of Joseph’s Myths –

the Garden of Eden and the Fall.

We’ll cover this next week. Should be good.

All right, let’s go to the phones:

(801) 973-TV20
(801) 973-8820

Emails?

Pastor in the Pub!

LORDSWORD

March 3rd Traveling Pastor (Tooele!)