Salvation, Part 2

Understanding Life's Richness and Service

“Difficult times have helped me to understand better than before, how infinitely rich and beautiful life is in every way, and that so many things that one goes worrying about are of no importance whatsoever.”
Isak Dinesen

“Everybody can be great… because anybody can serve. You don't have to have a college degree to serve. You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve. You only need a heart full of grace, a soul generated by love.”
Martin Luther King, Jr.

“Live from the Mecca of Mormonism – Salt Lake City Utah – This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. – Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity . . . Face to Face”

We invite any and all of you to join us on Sundays – live here in our studio we call the Factory or online. We pray, sing the word of God a bit, sit and reflect, and study the Bible verse by verseTGNN’s Bible teaching series—book-by-book, through the lens of fulfillment and spiritual liberty.. Then we go home or out to be Christians. So come – get equipped without price except for time – and learn of Him.

Below is a graphic on where to go online to join us.
10am Mountain time for our Milk Service or 2:30 Mountain for Meat.

Personal Accounts: Louis DeBroux

In 2009 a man named Louis DeBroux wrote the following about himself on a site online:

“I was born in Alabama but reborn in Georgia at the age of 8, and have been a member of the church my whole life. I am 37 years old, have been married for 18 years and have 8 children (four sons and four daughters) and now live in northwest Georgia. I am the First Assistant in the ward High Priest Group, Chairman of the Bartow County Republican Party, columnist for the Bartow Tribune newspaper, and owner of Gatekeeper Data Backup and Recovery, an encrypted, IP-based, offsite-data backup and recovery service with clients spread across the southeast. I have been a voracious reader of American History since the age of 8, especially in the areas of the American Revolution and Constitutional Convention, the Founding Fathers and the War Between the States. The catalyst for my writing is to educate American citizens about what makes our nation unique and the greatest nation in the history of the world, and in doing so hopefully inspire others to take back our country from those in both parties that would usurp power and betray the Constitution for their own gains.”

Last week I received an interesting email from a man I will call CLAYTON. It says:

“The person who baptized me into LDS Church was Louis (Lou) DeBroux. He was raised in Pensacola, Florida and was a member of the Mobile, Alabama II ward (LDS). Bishop Sonny Sanders of Pritchard, Alabama was the Bishop when I was there. Lou DeBroux moved to into the Conyers, Georgia II ward in the 1990’s or late 1980’s. I visited him in Forest Park, Georgia. He told me that his wife, Francis, (his 1st. and only wife from his Mobile Alabama days) was seduced by LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley and had her sealed him (Hinckley) in the LDS Atlanta, Georgia temple in the 90’s while in Conyers. I later heard thru Mormon circles that Lou DeBroux was mad about it and planted bombs at LDS places and was sent to prison for doing that.”

And with that let’s have a word of prayer.

PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER
PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER

Spiritual Rebirth

In this ministry, in the “Mormon/Christian debate,” there perhaps is not a more important topic than a clear Biblical understanding of our subject tonight and for the next few weeks:

Spiritual rebirth (or being born again).

The Bible refers to it as being “Born From Above” and the topic arrives with all sorts of debatable issues like how (or what causes) such a birth to occur, when does it happen, is it repeated in the life of a person? Is it the same for everyone? Can people of all faiths have the experience? Who is and who has not been born again and can we tell?

And on and on and on.

Our first book was called: Born-Again Mormon as from the get-go we have believed that if this is the focus in reaching out to the LDS the Holy Spirit will do all the rest of the work.

Understanding Spiritual Rebirth and Salvation

The central focus of the ministry was, and remains to this very day, our desire for Latter-day Saints – and frankly people of every walk and clime – to experience spiritual rebirth and to then let the Lord guide them in their decisions about family, life, and church membership. In my heart – and from what I can deduce from Scripture – I do not believe there is a more important moment in the life of any human being. That being said, it is certainly not the only important experience in the Christian walk – but that’s for another time and place. With being born from above such an important event in the lives of people it only stands to reason that Satan would spend quite a bit of time creating counterfeits to genuine spiritual rebirth and/or would work hard at changing the true definition of it among men and the religions we concoct.

Exploring Salvation in Mormon Soteriology

Regarding Mormon soteriology, I am going to break our analysis of it down by first discussing a sort of convoluted definition of salvation that floats around in the LDS world. After that we're going to talk about how the LDS actually define and (in their case practice) spiritual rebirth, and then we will wrap the whole thing up by taking a look at how Mormon doctrine then dovetails the regenerative experience of their members into a progressive model for perfection, which, in their opinion leads to exaltation – or becoming gods. I’m including this last part in the topic of soteriology because when the rubber truly meets the road for faithful LDS people, the salvation experience is almost meaningless (almost) if it does not lead to life in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom.

But more on this in a minute. First let’s just talk about salvation in LDS terms. To a Christian salvation (soter) in the Greek (which is where we get the term soteriology) simply means being saved from sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. and deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. (not physical death but specifically, the second death). Saved from (sin and the second death) saved to God and His kingdom eternally. When a Christian says something like, “I was saved,” they are speaking of the fact that sins have been forgiven and they have been saved from the second death awaiting those have not believed on Jesus Christ.

LDS Perspectives on Salvation

To a Mormon, however, this term “salvation, and being saved,” are twisted a bit. First of all, they have some different definitions for being saved. One definition is simply being resurrected from the grave. In this sense, the LDS teach that all mankind receive this gift (of grace) in and through the atonement of Jesus Christ – and this is the unmerited gift bestowed upon all humanity. That is one definition that some LDS will apply to a conversation about being saved. Because of this it is important to make sure terms are defined and understood in conversation with them. I say this because a Christian could actually ask a Mormon:

“Do you believe that all mankind are saved by God’s grace,” and some could respond, “Yes. Absolutely.”

In the second (LDS) sense, to be saved means entering into the Celestial Kingdom – the lowest degree, by the way. In this sense, the LDS third article of faith says:

“We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.”

We can see very clearly from this definition that the equivalent of Christian salvation (within Mormonism) is obtained (made possible through the atonement of Jesus Christ) by a member's obedience to the LDS laws and ordinances of the LDS gospel.

Where do the LDS get this idea?

After Jesus’ telling a man named Nicodemus that a person MUST be born again and that the spirit behind the experience blows and goes where it wants to go without our being able to direct or originate it (John 3:8), Joseph Smith Jun, founder of Mormonism stepped in and said that (TPJS, page 162):

“Being born-again comes by the Spirit of God through ordinances.”

In other words where Jesus’ described being born from above as a supernatural act of God through His wind-like holy spirit, Joseph Smith reeled the whole experience back into the four walls of a His religious institution and claimed it occurs through obedience to LDS administered ordinances and laws. This would be like the Federal Government making the determination of when a woman could to give physical birth to a child, and then when it said it was time they administer Petosin.

The LDS Perspective on Spiritual Rebirth

To get the woman to deliver and if a child was born naturally, without the state mandate, then the birth (and the new life produced) would be deemed not genuine. That would be ridiculous, huh?

Articulating Joseph Smith’s original teachings, tenth President of the LDS church, Joseph Fielding Smith, said (in Doctrines of Salvation 2:223): “Through baptism and confirmation [people] are born-again and thus come back into spiritual life and through their continued obedience to the end, they shall be made partakers of the blessings of eternal life in the celestial kingdom of GodGod’s spiritual reign—fulfilled and present, not political or future..”

In order to do so we have to take in as many of their unique perspectives into account in order to see how and why they explain rebirth the way they do. So let’s quickly go back into the Smithian world view or plan.

The LDS View on Human Existence

Latter-day Saints first teach that all human beings are born literal spirit children of a Heavenly Father and Mother. In effect, every human being comes from God in the same way Christians believe only Jesus came from God. Coming from a pre-existent state (as His spirit children) all human beings enter into bodies of flesh and bone and face trials and tests and temptations provided by Satan and allowed by Heavenly Father. The LDS concur with the Bible that all people fail in these tests and sin as a result.

Because they are born spirit children of Heavenly Father and Mother the emphasis for becoming a NEW CREATION in Christ is not emphasized in the faith, though their Book of Mormon does refer to “the mighty change” another way Smith chose to describe spiritual regeneration. Nevertheless, even as children of heavenly parents from birth, the LDS do acknowledge all of these heavenly children fail in one way or another, and need to repent.

Ordinances of Baptism and Confirmation

When a Mormon child turns eight, they are generally deemed accountable for their actions, and submit to water baptism and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by a male member who holds the proper priesthood authority. These two ordinances serve as the gateway or entryway into the LDS Celestial Kingdom. They also serve to make the child (or convert to the church of any age over eight) a member.

The Role of Covenantal Relationship

Because the LDS teach that all people sin, the means to overcome sin is offered by LDS members entering into a covenantal relationship with Jesus Christ. This happens when the person accepts the ordinance of the LDS water baptism and then receives the “gift of the Holy Ghost” by the laying on of hands. In receiving these LDS ordinances, the LDS teach that they have “taken on the name of Christ” which is sort of synonymous (in an institutional fashion) with being “born again” and is synonymous with what the founder of their faith said about spiritual rebirth, that “Being born-again comes by the Spirit of God through ordinances.”

Then, to remain faithful to this perfunctory and institutionalized spiritual rebirth, the “now member of the church” (membership comes through water baptism) a person must then live so as to be worthy of the gift of the Holy Ghost they were given by keeping the covenants they made at their water baptism.

As a result, every week the baptized and confirmed LDS member partakes of what they call the sacrament – bread and water – which has been blessed by 16-year-old boys (called priests) and passed out by 12-year-old boys (called deacons) to the “members” of their local ward. Included in the priests blessings of the bread and water is a recitation of the promises each member made at their water baptism. These promises include, in the name of Jesus Christ, to

“To eat (or drink) in remembrance of the broken body and shed blood of Christ, And to witness to God that they will “Always remember Him” “That they will keep the commandments that He has given them” as a means to always “have his Spirit to be with them.”

Now, as a means and in the effort to “always have His Spirit to be with them” the LDS believe it is incumbent on the individual member to remain worthy of said Spirit (which, remember, was given to them by the laying on of hands after being baptized in water). Instead of being baptized and confirmed and receiving the Holy Ghost and then left to let God work upon them through this Spirit, the LDS mandate that constant repentance on the part

Understanding LDS Weekly Renewal Practices

By coming to church each and every week, and participating (partaking) in their sacramental services, the baptized believer renews the covenants made at their water baptism, and is (in effect) thought to be re-baptized through this weekly renewal when it is combined with true repentance.

So, let’s have an example. John converts to Mormonism by the LDS missionaries. He is single and twenty-four years old. He feels really good after the baptism and confirmation and holy ghost gift because he believes truly that all of his former sins have, in fact, been washed away. The week after his baptism he goes to church and during the Sacrament service takes and eats the LDS bread and water and renews the covenants He made at his baptism. Yes, he coveted a bit the week prior – and yes, there was some other “light” sinning that he recalls, so He uses this time to “lightly” repent and in taking the sacramental elements believes he has renews his baptismal covenants and will do better the following week.

Week after week this is the LDS program for its baptized members. It is the process by which the LDS member is able to remain worthy enough to have the Spirit with them – again – through repeated (weekly) repentance, renewal of baptismal covenants at the sacramental table, and then moving forward into the new week having been forgiven and renewed.

The LDS Cycle of Renewal

Do you see the cycle Mormonism requires (and the allegiance to Mormonism that is demanded) in order for their members to supposedly remain worthy before God and supposedly have the holy ghost stay with them?

• They must receive the LDS baptism and gift of the Holy Spirit by LDS authority.
• They must remain worthy to partake the weekly LDS sacrament, and
• they must attend the weekly LDS services to ingest the bread and water the LDS administer as a means to renew their baptismal covenants (which is where they believe they believe they are washed clean of sin).

You see part and parcel of being born-again, which the LDS believe is a processional experience, NOT a single event as the Christians describe it, is constant repentance. In other words, a baptized member, in order to keep the gift of the holy spirit (in order to always have the spirit to be with them) they must remain worthy of this holy spirit and that only comes by repenting . . . and it must be repenting the LDS way.

LDS repentance includes

• Recognizing the sin
• Sorrow for committing the sin
• Confessing the sin to God (and others who were harmed)
• Asking forgiveness of God and those harmed (including the church, if necessary)
• Restitution of the sin, and
• Forsaking the sin

The RSCARF Process

We used to call this the RSCARF. All the points must be covered in order for true repentance to occur. So, let’s say John eats the sacrament on Sunday, but Monday morning he gossips terribly about a co-worker. Over the week he

Recognizes the sin Feels Sorrow for committing it Confesses the sin to God (and goes to the person he gossiped about) He asks God for forgiveness and forgiveness of the person he gossiped about He begins to make restitution for the sin by, let’s say, speaking well of the person (I dunno how we make restitution for any sin, to be honest with you)

And then come Sunday, full of contrition, John renews the covenants he made at baptism by partaking of the blessed bread and water. In so doing John renews his covenantal promises to God, and this exchange (if you will) serves to re-wash John again as if he has been re-baptized all over again and made clean – which is all made possible by the atonement of Christ.

One more scenario to include in this section. Suppose John, after repenting for the gossip, meets a local LDS hottie and instead of gossiping that week gets “busy wid it.” I mean, it happens. In the LDS world this is a sin that cannot be forgiven until it has been repented of through the proper channels – meaning through John’s local priesthood leader (specifically, his Bishop). Because the sin is so serious in God’s eyes, and because another person is involved, and because the churches name has, in effect been harmed, stronger action must be taken by the Bishop.

So, again, we turn to the RSCARF. First, John must recognize that the hokey pokey is sinful outside of marriage. Then, he must feel sorrow for the activity. Then he must confess it to God AND to the proper priesthood authority.

Confession and Repentance in LDS Belief

Believe everything must be confessed to their Bishop and some Bishops want to hear everything. Others believe that it's only major sins like fornication, adultery, habitual self-indulgence (some Bishops would say ANY self-indulgence), breaking the word of wisdom, crimes of any nature, and issues that have to do with besmirching the church or its leaders). Outside of this stuff most LDS do not run to the Bishop but handle the repenting on their own.

Then, John must ask forgiveness from God, the girl, and the Bishop, for embarrassing the church. Then John must make restitution for the act. How? How does a person make restitution for sex outside of marriage – perform all the acts in reverse? (I dunno) The inability to make proper restitution plays a big role in determining which sins are confession worthy and which sins get a pass. One reason boiking is so serious is for the difficulty to make restitution.

And then there is the forsaking of the sin. Well, the bishop, seeing that the baptized John is incapable of making the right choice, he will not allow him to renew his baptismal covenants for a while – he wants to see that John has really repented, and this takes time. So John is not allowed to take the sacrament which serves to figuratively wash away his sins. He has lost this privilege – for a time, at least.

Ecclesiastical Discipline in LDS Practices

The Bishop wants to make certain that John will not do the hokey pokey anymore. In the LDS eyes, John has lost either all or much of the Holy Spirit he was blessed with. Only time and sincere contrition will bring it back. Time must pass, and John must prove that he will not partake in that sin again, proving to God, himself, and the Bishop, that he truly IS sorry for the fornication, and that he will in the future honor the covenants he made at baptism.

Let’s open up the phone lines here: (801)

While the operators are clearing any calls we may have, a couple more points. If John cannot stop his couch activities, he might be subjected to one of a variety of different ecclesiastical disciplines – Temporary probation (which is often applied to masturbation) Disfellowshipment and or Excommunication. Partaking the LDS sacrament is not allowed in the event any of these things occur. Additionally, if an LDS person finds themselves in prison, the sacrament is forbidden (which in my opinion, is when it would be needed most).

Fundamentals of Being an Active Latter-day Saint

Now, understand, all that we have just talked about are the basics or fundamentals of being an active Latter-day Saint. Because it borrows so heavily from principles of Masonry, of taking bad men and making them good and good men and making them better, progress is the name of the LDS game. Once these gospel essentials of baptism and gift of the Holy Ghost are in place, and repentance and renewing covenants made at baptism, the LDS are believed to have entered into way – the celestial Kingdom. But there is so much more expected – which we will get to next week as we continue to talk about LDS Soteriology.

You know, I think I need to make an observation.

When we we’re in the middle of the fire-fight with the LDS, there were some common responses the LDS defenders would constantly use. FIRST, they would NEVER respond to everything presented to them. Instead they would assail the assailable, and leave the unassailable facts alone completely. I says this because this is what we experience now with supposed Evangelical defenders of the faith. They are not one but different. They will take a point that is easy to refute and ignore all the others. Even the so-called apologists do this ad nauseum. Look, I am not in a war with anyone in the Body. I have perspectives and points of views and some of them are going to be wrong (and troubling) – but probably not all of them. And the way I see it, if ten percent of my observations are correct I’m not doing so badly. I am a sold out follower of Christ who tries to live for Him and His truth and to share it with others.

SECONDLY, the LDS defenders ALWAYS cried, “Oh, you’re just regurgitating tired old stuff that has been brought up before!” The Christian apologists do the very same thing – and both sides act like this somehow matters or

Exploring Truth and Apologetics

makes their position more viable. I want truth and if a monkey made a valid point about the Trinity stated a thousand years ago I will recite it without shame today. I suppose my point is the game of apologetics NO MATTER WHAT A PERSON IS DEFENDING is all the same. This ministry is not apologetically driven. We are just trying to make sense of a lot of very non-sensical traditions FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE MORMON/CHRISTIAN debate. Our aim is to help people discover truth. If that can’t be respected in the world of Christianity I don’t know what Christianity is.

Realizations and Questions

From: Michelle Eardley

Subject: Opinion from Shawn about Bible.

Message Body:

Shawn I have just realized the LDS church is not true. I realized this when I read the New Testament. I was changed. I fell to the ground in joy a few times. I know that no man could have been the example that Jesus is in the Bible. I am hoping to get your perspective. I was reading Job and a question came to mind. How the beginning come to be known where God lets Satan test Job? How do you think man knew this to write it down? Also Genesis would fall into the same category (when God created the earth before man was made). These details seem to be stated with no revelation explained? I have not yet attended another church. Can you give me any guidance on a good church to attend? I live in St George, Utah. Your episode on culture helped me realize what I have been fighting my whole life. Its culture. Thanks so much!!!

Literal Interpretation of the Bible

From: Michael Slewitzke Subject: taking the Bible literally Message Body: Hi Shawn, caught your archive where someone from Florida called in asking about the validity of a literal interpretation of the Bible. His example was Joshua asking God to stop the sun for a time. Science now has determined that we revolve around the sun not the other way around. But, just because Joshua didn't understand the science God does. Are we to think that if we don't pray perfect prayers God will not answer? Of course not! Every human being is fallen including Joshua. I believe that God is sovereign enough to decide on His own what Joshua needed at the time and graciously granted

Reflections on Spiritual Teachings

His need. He saw no reason to explain the science to him. Case in point my wife went forward once to receive her prayer language, God healed both of her ankles instead which she didn't even pray for. He gave her the prayer language later. He is sovereign, not some puppet on a string. As far as Paul's teaching on women's attire that's a tough one in today's culture but culture doesn't trump God it's the other way around.

According to the Book of Enoch, which is not canon, a fallen angel brought the knowledge of makeup and stuff to the human race. I have to ask myself why does a woman, especially a married woman, want to make herself "attractive" according to current cultural definitions. Jesus said to look on a woman with lust commits adultery in his heart. Pastor Howard Pittman makes the case that this adultery is part of the seven deadly sins of sodomy, which opens someone up to a curse that carries down through the man's son(s) to the 3-4 generation causing sickness and disease. This demonic presents is the one that Jesus talks about only coming out by prayer and fasting.

Cultural Reflections

If I look at two cultures, Egypt of the past and current Hollywood, it's not hard to believe that this is part of Satan's plan and why Paul warns about it. I'm no prude, I come out of New Age, yoga, TM, American Indian mysticism, and left hand path. I was heavy into drugs and partying. I believe Ps. Pittman has put his finger on some of the enemy's plan. If interested you can check him at www.howardpittman.org God Bless, Mike. P.S. I think we need the Word as our base to interpret what we get in the spirit, because there are 3 flows in the spirit. God, Satan and our own thoughts. If we take what we get in the spirit and use that to interpret the Word, we are opening ourselves up to deception. What we think is God's spirit may well be Satan or our own will. We must take what we get and look to God's Word to judge whether our rhema is correct.

Inquiry on Biblical Teachings Regarding Tattoos

From: Misty
Hey Shawn, I was just wondering what your opinion is on the Bible's interpretation of not marking your body means? I am recently a born again Christian and I have a lot of tattoos and plan on getting more. Can you please email me back and tell me your thought on this? Thank you Misty.

From: Misty
Subject: Re tattoos
Message Body: Hey Shawn, I was just wondering what your opinion is on the Bible's interpretation of not marking your body means? I am recently a born again Christian and I have a lot of tattoos and plan on getting more. Can you please email me back and tell me your thought on this? Thank you Misty.