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Beginning Monday August 7th 6pm there will be a Recovery Group meeting here at CAMPUS. Lead by Justin Nielson.
Remember, open water baptism and hot dog barbeque Sunday August 21st 11:30 to 1:30 Heart in the Parking Lot!
Okay . . .
If you haven’t been with us we have deconstructed these gatherings down to the essentials:
We begin with prayer
Sing the Word of God set to music (as a means to get it into our heads) and then we sit for a moment in silence here at the Church/Studio.
When we come back we pick up where we left off last week in our verse by verse study.
And that takes us to Acts chapter 23 verse 12.
Prayer
Song
Silence
Revelation 7. Part III
Meat
July 30th 2017
Okay we are in Revelation chapter 7 which is considered by some to be a break of silence between the sixth seal and the seventh.
Last week we talked about the 144,000 and the tribes. We then entered into another vision John has where we wrote:
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
We discussed the potential meaning of this vision and had some different interpretations of it.
I believe that it is describing the saved hosts of heaven which are innumerable because there are so many.
I suggested this because I believe that the 144,000 “are the few” (that find it) whom Jesus spoke about taken from the House of Israel.
Finally, even though the stance is tough to support completely – I am convinced that God will have the total victory over all through His Son and all will ultimately be reconciled to Him – after they go through their respective tribulations.
I must say, however, that this view clouded my interpretation of Revelation and in last weeks teaching I suggested that the innumerable number was John seeing all the reconciled host of heaven before the throne.
I now see from further study that this view was wrong. You see, the book of Revelation and the entire Bible for that matter, was to them then – in that day and age.
My desire to see total reconciliation represented in the text came about last week as I interpreted the innumerable host before the throne as including us.
Not right. Apologies.
We will see today in our verse by verse where I went wrong.
Finally, there were other views that suggested that we are still waiting on this scene to be fulfilled and that perhaps, it really represents a few believers when compared to vast number of people who have ever lived.
So, let’s continue on with the text and what John says happened when he saw this innumerable host gathered around the throne of God. (verse 13)
Revelation 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Alright back to verse 13:
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, “What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?”
When Revelation speaks of the Elders in John’s visit (or one of the Elders) it seems that they are representatives of the Church – one of the oldest members – and, of course, in the King James, when it says, “and one of the elders answered, this best means, “one of the elders asked” – in this case, “one of the elders asked John.”
In the vision John was looking on the host, and reflecting on the state of things and one of the elders asked Him (or we could say, “answered John’s state of observation with”
“What are these which are arrayed in white robes? Who are these?”
Now, there is some debate here on who the these were that the Elder is asking about.
Because John says He saw innumerable hosts in white waving palm frons before the throne of God most suggest that the elder is asking John who the whole host was.
In other words, who are all of these innumerable people standing around the throne?
But some suggest that John first says that He saw the whole host waving Palm frons and then the Elder, focused on a particular group asks John:
And out of all of this enormous group, who are these (referring to a specific segment of the group).
The thinking here is if the host was innumerable and the Elder simply asked who they were, that it couldn’t refer to the innumerable host because that many could not have come through what scripture calls, “the Great Tribulation.”
So again, this view is that the Elder is directing John to a specific or select group of the innumerable masses and asks Him to identify them.
This is hard to tell. But in the end, either the whole host came through Great Tribulation and the elder was referencing them OR the Elder was referring to a smaller selection of the group who had come through Great Tribulation.
One things we can probably say is the phrase “great tribulation” used here SEEMS to only mean the great tribulation that the Church was facing in the last days before the destruction of Jerusalem.
We can say this because this is the same Greek phrase Jesus uses in scripture to describe what the end-time tribulation would look like.
The Greek is MEGAS THLIPSIS and it is specifically used in Matthew 24 when Jesus is asked by His disciples to describe to them the end of the age and what would accompany His return.
There He said:
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
The only other place where Megas Thlipsis is here in Revelation. For this reason most Christian readers do not believe the Megas Thlipsis has occurred, and are therefore futurists in their eschatology.
I would suggest (for now) the following:
That the 144,000 were the special members of the House of Israel that were saved from destruction.
That the innumerable number around the throne of God waving Palm branches were all the Nation of Israel, and that
The Elder asked John about a certain group of the host in white as to their identity.
And perhaps these were martyrs who had made it through the end time tribulation.
The question the elder asks John is who are they and where did they come from? Verse 14
14 And I (John) said unto him, “Sir, thou knowest.” And he said to me, “These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
“Sir, thous knowest” was a polite (kurios – Lord) address and the humble admittance that he was ignorant of the answer
“And he said unto me, these are they which came out of great tribulation.”
Most of what we have read thus far in Revelation pertains to the tribulation the saints of the Apostolic church faced in that day and age and as was foretold of by Jesus in Matthew 24.
Most of the epistles written toward the end of that age were rife with advice from the apostles warning them to hang on through the trials and tribulation that was all around them.
So the Elder tells John that these (whether a special group or the innumerable masses) were they that came through Great Tribulation AND
“have washed their robes making them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
There is a bit of a immediate paradox here in saying that robes could be made white through the blood of another human being.
From this we realize that this is speaking of heavenly purification, that the shed blood of any other martyr or individual would do nothing but stain our white clothing and perhaps somehow implicate us in their death.
But only in the case of Jesus and His death would and could His shed blood have the ability to wash all people clean of the stains from life and sins on earth.
There is also the temptation to believe that those who are being discussed here are present in heaven because they have made it through “great tribulation.”
This is not so. The only reason they are there before the throne of God is because their robes have been washed clean and made white in the blood of the Lamb.
They may be distinguished in heaven by different factors – as the 144,000 or those who made it through great tribulation, but in the end, all are only there TO BE DISTINGUISHED by and through the blood of the Lamb.
The elder continues and says: (verse 15)
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
The Elder gives John a “therefore” at this point. Therefore is a way of saying, “as a direct result of the fact that their robes have been made white in the blood of the lamb. . .
THERFORE . . .
The reason why they are there before the throne of God, THEREFORE, for no other reasons other than His shed blood applied, Therefore . . .
These who you have seen washed in the blood of the Lamb now . . .
“serve him night and day in his temple (meaning heaven): and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Uninterrupted service, constant devotion, continually in the presence of God.
Now, in our world, this sounds really hellish to me – laboring day and night as a servant. I’m just being honest.
But I am uncertain about exactly how this would play out in another dimension, one where there is no weariness, no need of intermission, and where the service of God would be a total unequivocal joy rather than an exhausting burden.
The Elder also says that He that sits on the throne would “dwell among them” a term that properly means that He would “pitch a tent” with them.
In my estimation, could be wrong, I see this as a way of saying that God would dwell with them in a tent or in the very body of Jesus Christ.
To see one is to see the other.
Continuing with the conditions of those who would be there in His midst the Elder tells John (verse 16)
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
This is a quote from Isaiah 49:10. It therefore speaks plainly to Jews who had gone through great tribulation.
As famine was one of the signs of the end of that age it is possible that the Elder says this.
1st Corinthians 15:44 informs us, contrary to most peoples views, that the resurrected body will be spiritual, therefore all the things that contribute to our physical discomfort here will be lost in the presence of God.
The list goes on and on. Neither hunger, nor thirst, neither the need for the rays of the sun – perhaps intense burning rays of heat – but the light of God, bearable in and through the shed blood of the Lamb.
At verse 17 the Elder seems to give the heavenly response to hunger, thirst, and the misery of having to live under the heat of the burning sun, saying:
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
From this verse Jesus, the Lamb, which is in the midst of the throne, remains the great agent in promoting the happiness of the redeemed in heaven.
He is the one who will feed and lead them to living waters. The word used here for feed is poimanae – which is essentially saying that He will perform the role of shepherd – which we know means far more than just feeding sheep, but caring, protecting, guarding, watering, and leading.
The idea of Jesus leading the saved to living waters is very symbolic for the reader from the far east as running streams of cool water through hot deserted lands is felt to the core to such people.
This imagery is of course spiritual, and refers to the constant refreshment of the spirit to these heavenly inhabitants gathered around the throne of God.
Then finally, “and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
Again, this is another passage taken from Isaiah, (25:8) which says, “The Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces.”
So again, we have the fulfillment here among the very people of God – those by birth and those by adoption.
We can take the phrase literally to mean that when the citizens of heaven cry God will dry their tears giving them solace.
Or we can take the imagery symbolically and suggest that in heaven no tears are ever shed of which the line, God will wipe away every tear represents.
Again, this is describing a state that we humans will have a hard time comprehending for this life is shrouded in a veil of tears.
Because these heavenly hosts have been through so much these passages seem to be present, in part, to soothe them in describing the future that awaits all who endure.
And this brings us to chapter 8 and the opening of the seventh and final seal on the scroll presented to the Lamb.
Before we get into it I want to do a little preview of the way things begin to unfold for us here.
Admittedly, I have not looked forward to teaching these things because at first sight (which is all I have given them) it appears that they speak to future, world-wide calamities – which have not occurred in chronological succession and therefore SEEM to be looming out over the world in the future.
That is my immediate concern. I honestly am open to stepping in and teaching these passages according to what they say, not what I think, in order to see if there is a futuristic view in them I have therefore discounted.
Now let’s go to the board and lay all of this out.
The seven seals (Revelation 6:1-17, 8:1-5), seven trumpets (Revelation 8:6-9:21; 11:15-19), and seven bowls/vials (Revelation 16:1-21) are three succeeding series of end-times judgments from God.
The judgments get progressively worse and more devastating as the end times progress. The seven seals, trumpets, and bowls are connected to one another as
the seventh seal introduce . . .
the seven trumpets (Revelation 8:1-5) and the seventh trumpets . . .
introduce the seven bowls (Revelation 11:15-19, 15:1-8).
As we’ve seen the first four of the seven seals are known as the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.
The first seal introduces the Antichrist (Revelation 6:1-2).
The second seal causes great warfare (Revelation 6:3-4).
The third of the seven seals causes famine (Revelation 6:5-6).
The fourth seal brings about plague, further famine, and further warfare (Revelation 6:7-8).
The fifth seal tells us of those who will be martyred for their faith in Christ during the end times (Revelation 6:9-11). God hears their cries for justice and will deliver it in His timing—in the form of the sixth seal, along with the trumpet and bowl judgments.
When the sixth of the seven seals is broken, a devastating earthquake occurs, causing massive upheaval and terrible devastation—along with unusual astronomical phenomena (Revelation 6:12-14).
Those who survive cry out words Jesus presents in Matthew 24,
“Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” (Revelation 6:16-17).
The seven trumpets are described in Revelation 8:6-13 which we are about to read.
The seven trumpets are the “contents” of the seventh seal which is described in (Revelation 8:1-5).
The first trumpet causes hail and fire that destroys much of the plant life in the world (Revelation 8:7).
The second trumpet brings about what seems to be a meteor hitting the oceans and causing the death of much of the world’s sea life (Revelation 8:8-9).
The third trumpet is similar to the second, except it affects the world’s lakes and rivers instead of the oceans (Revelation 8:10-11).
The fourth of the seven trumpets causes the sun and moon to be darkened (Revelation 8:12).
The fifth trumpet results in a plague of “demonic locusts” that attack and torture humanity (Revelation 9:1-11).
The sixth trumpet releases a demonic army that kills a third of humanity (Revelation 9:12-21).
The seventh trumpet calls forth the seven angels with the seven bowls of God’s wrath (Revelation 11:15-19, 15:1-8).
Then the seven bowl/vial judgments are described in Revelation 16:1-21.
They are called forth by the seventh trumpet. The first bowl causes painful sores to break out on humanity (Revelation 16:2).
The second bowl results in the death of every living thing in the sea (Revelation 16:3).
The third bowl causes the rivers to turn into blood (Revelation 16:4-7).
The fourth of the seven bowls results in the sun’s heat being intensified and causing great pain (Revelation 16:8-9).
The fifth bowl causes great darkness and an intensification of the sores from the first bowl (Revelation 16:10-11).
The sixth bowl results in the Euphrates River being dried up and the armies of the Antichrist being gathered together to wage the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 16:12-14).
The seventh bowl results in a devastating earthquake followed by giant hailstones (Revelation 16:15-21).
Now, key to all of this is in Revelation 16:5-7 we will read that it is said to God:
“You are just in these judgments, you who are and who were, the Holy One, because you have so judged; for they have shed the blood of your saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve. … Yes, Lord God Almighty, true and just are your judgments.”
This takes all of this very apocalyptic imagery and places it on the heads of “the they” who have shed the blood of His Saints and prophets . . .
So let’s read through our text and see what it has to say before we start trying to break it down.
(ON BOARD THIS)
Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
I think we will let all of that sink in and percolate and then come back next week and see what we can learn about the seals, trumpets, and vials.
Comments and Questions
Prayer
Reminder
August 7th 6PM here at CAMPUS – GROUP IN HOPE AND LOVE – a gathering about Recovery.
Then on Sunday August 20th join us for an Open Water Baptism and hot dog barbeque 11:30 – 1:30 PM
All invited.
