Welcome
If you haven’t been with us before we pray, sing the Word of God set to music, and then sit in silence for each individual to commune with God according to how they are lead.
We then come back and read our text for the day together and then go through and study what we have read verse by verse.
Revelation 11 part VII
November 19th 2017
Meat
Okay, last week we read and covered:
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Let’s read on through to the end of the chapter:
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, “We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Back to verse 16.
This passage – and actually the remainder of the chapter – is in relation to verse 15 where we read:
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
So, in relation to the Kingdom or Kingdoms of the world becoming the Kingdoms or Kingdom of our Lord, and of His Messiah, where he (it seems the Lord and Not His Christ) will reign forever and ever, John continues to see more of the vision and says
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
The four and twenty elders take us back to chapters 4 and 5 and in chapter 5 we read of them
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
This passage seems to relate back to this description we read about then. However, it could be that the 24 elders were falling upon their faces and worshipped God at every thing that happened that was leading to God reigning over all things once and for all.
As they were on their faces
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
We recall that the elders were in all probability representatives of the Bride of Christ – or perhaps His body as a whole –
And as the representatives of the church, they may be expressing the hearts of all believers and lovers of God by acknowledging His goodness in delivering the church from all its troubles, and then establishing His kingdom once and for all upon the earth.
Now, in verse 15 we read about the Lord and His Christ – clearly differentiating between them.
Remember, it said:
“The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”
Now in verse seventeen we read
We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
I think its important to remind ourselves that God is the omnipotent one who has accomplished all of this on behalf of the human race through His Christ.
In other words, God so loved the world He gave us His Only begotten Son.
In other words, it was God to whom His only begotten Son trusted and prayed and whose will He did while on earth, and it was God who lead Him through the Passion to save us – all because God so loved the World.
This is the One True and Living God almighty. Only one. Always one. Not more – working through all things to redeem the human race and world.
Here John hears the 24 elders call this God
“O Lord God Almighty.”
Don’t let this direct address get muddied by confusing man-made ideas – the Lord God Almighty is the One God – and there is no other. And the elders add:
“Which art, and wast, and art to come.”
The reference here seems to be to the fact that God, who had thus established his church on the earth, is unchanging.
In all the revolutions which occur on the earth, He always remains the same. What He was in past times He is now; what He is now He always will be.
And in this glorious position He has had the victory over all things by and through His Son.
The line here used is interesting though as the Elders say:
“Because thou hast taken to thee thy great power.”
There seems to be the implication here that His power was in someway relaxed or shared with another – until now.
For example, it is pretty obvious that Satan possessed some power before Christ and that as a result he was able to capture people who died in hell or at least hold their souls in the covered place.
Satan was also able to hold people prisoner to sin, a power he exerted upon the hearts and lives of Man.
But at the victory of Christ that Power was lost – completely.
But we must also admit that when Jesus was on earth . . . according to Romans 1:4 that he was declared to
“be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.”
And then hearkening back to last week we also know that in the end, once Jesus has returned to earth
1st Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he (Christ) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
I think that what we are reading here in Revelation is the consummation of this, which would occur at the Resurrection of His bride, which would occur at His coming.
And after this, as these passages suggest, God – even the Father – has come forth as if to resume the dominion over the world, and to take the sceptre into his own hand, and to exert his great, victorious, everlasting power.
Now, I had lunch with a partial preterist Pastor last week who believes that while Christ has returned we are still waiting for “everything to be shaken so that the only thing that remains is unshakeable,” and the time when God will fully write His laws upon the hearts and minds of all, and when the New Jerusalem will be put in place.
To Him, because there is still evil in the world, then we must not be in the place and time I just described through scripture.
If the Kingdom is materially based he may be right. But if God’s kingdom is Spiritually based then what we are reading here has occurred – and it was at His coming, making our need to explain a gap between the contents of Revelation unnecessary.
In other words, my partial preterist friend is waiting for the prototypical Christian view of God’s kingdom to occur which will include him ruling over the world and causing his laws everywhere to be obeyed which will be a major demonstration of His complete Divine power being in charge.
Because these verses about His Kingdom being established and God’s power being taken back verse 18 now takes us to some responses and timing of it all, saying:
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
This passage seems to be referring to the whole series of events preceding the final establishment of his kingdom on the earth; to all the efforts which had been made to throw off his government and to crush his church that we have been reading about in the earlier chapters about the seven churches.
Whenever there is a shift in power or a change of administration there is a response from those involved. I’m not so sure that this verse is only talking about what things looked like RIGHT before the shift of power or if it is a description of God’s influence over the ages.
So we read, “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come”
All the way back in Psalm 2:1-3 we read
1 “Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.”
I think these verses were speaking to that time then and then to the future that is being addressed in Revelation.
But in terms of fulfillment of scripture this verse is speaking directly to prophetic passages in the Old Testament.
For example, listen to Daniel 7:9-10
where it says:
Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
The Elders continue and add to God that
“thy wrath is come” which is tied to the next line:
“And the time of the dead, that they should be judged.”
Now these lines open us up to a several questions. One is
Did God pour out his wrath on Jesus while He was on the cross?
Most – even the most stupendous scholars suggest that He did and it was in and through what Romans 3:24-25 speaks about, saying
“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation.”
While the basic meaning of propitiation is “appease” or “satisfy” we have to ask what did the death of Christ appease or satisfy in the nature of God?
In his very nature, God is holy and righteous – but He is also fair and just.
He can have no fellowship with anything that is sinful, including sinful men. Thus, God’s wrath burns hot against sin and sinners because he must judge all sin.
If he does not do this, he is not acting according to his perfect character.
In love, God sent his Son Jesus Christ to be the perfect sacrifice for sin. But the question I have is was it God who poured out his wrath against sin on the person of Jesus Christ or was it our sin that caused Him the pain and suffering that He endured as the perfect and righteous living sacrifice.
This passage here in Revelation has the Elders saying that “thy wrath is come.”
This phrase, used after the dead of Christ, in
1st Thessalonians 1:10 which says:
“And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”
And again in the next chapter in the same book:
“1st Thessalonians 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
And then even in Revelation 6:17 John reports to the seven churches:
“For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”
Christian pastors and scholars are huge on saying that the death of Christ appeased God’s wrath and satisfied his holy, righteous demands against sin.
The way they put it God took out his wrath on Christ instead of on sinners.
The problem then becomes –
Did Jesus pay for the sins of the whole world? If not, then God’s wrath was just in being poured out twice – once on His son for those He saved and then again (but once) on those who would not receive Him.
But if we claim that God poured His wrath out on His Son, and that His Son paid for the sins of the World, that it would be a double pouring out of wrath from God – the first on His Son and then Again on those who did not receive His Son.
I don’t think so.
Because we have scriptures that say that God was going to pour His wrath out in the future AND NO VERSES that say He poured out His wrath on His Son (but only passages that say that God made His Son to be a propitiation for sin) I would suggest that God did NOT pour His wrath out upon His only begotten Son – but that God allowed His only Son to unjustly receive punishment and death on our behalf for sin – which He willingly endured out of love for God and us – but again, God was NOT pouring His wrath out on Jesus.
That would firstly make God unjust because His Son was without sin. It would then make Him doubly unjust if He then poured His wrath out again on those for whom Christ had already paid their debt in full.
The standard illogical fare we have heard for decades is
“Now anyone who will place his faith and trust in Jesus Christ as personal Savior from sin will receive the forgiveness of sins, and the wrath of God will never again come down upon that one because Christ bore God’s wrath on that believer’s behalf.”
Again, I’m not so sure about this.
Perhaps the punishment of sin – which is death – was assumed for all by Christ, God’s perfect Son who would, could and did pay the fine for all for their sin – which is death.
Therefore all will live again because of His suffering the punishment for sin – which is death.
But God’s wrath was waiting to abide on all people of that age who would not accept this free gift of life given them by His Son’s offering.
That the punishment for sin has been taken care of today but the punishment for rejecting His Son has not.
That in reality, the only sin that people will reap the wrath of God is the sin of faithlessness on His Son.
And the only loss people will incur upon themselves will be for building upon the things of this world instead of on the things of the Spirit – which is only made possible by faith on Christ.
So, as Christ did in fact satisfied the holy, righteous demands of God against sin through His life and death, God’s wrath would be poured out upon any and all who refused to receive this gift by faith.
Note that it was through Christ’s death on the cross that God solved the problem of sin. But nowhere do we read that His wrath was poured out on Jesus at this time.
God has made a declaration to all the world of his righteousness at the cross. In the death of Christ, God has solved the sin problem!
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come . . .
and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
This last part of verse 18 seems to be referring to the great white throne judgment which we will read about in Revelation 20:12 where it reads
“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”
So the small and great will be judged and given reward and those that destroyed the gahay or land would be themselves destroyed.
This book of Revelation speaks to the coming of Jesus with reward.
In fact, in the last chapter of the book Jesus says:
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
That was the promise and that was the timing of it – quickly.
And we recall vividly that when Jesus was on earth He said the following in
Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
The idea that Jesus, upon His return, would reward every person according to His labors – His work – is all through the New Testament.
The Christians understood this an anticipated that Jesus was coming back to reward them based on their selfless works of love done on His behalf and on behalf of their fellow human beings.
That in the final assessment of that kingdom and those who had a part in it, God would, in-fact, reward people according to their meritorious labors.
Job 34:11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
Paul writes to the believers in Rome
Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
1st Corinthians 3:8 says
“Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.”
Galatians 6:4-5 says
Galatians 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
And of course fitting in with the context of this revelation of Christ and of the Spiritual things of God that have long been obscured in heaven, we read again in the last chapter of Revelation:
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Who specifically are mentioned as being recipients of rewards?
“that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”
I would of course, suggest that this occurred in 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the surrounding areas.
At this point we have one verse left in chapter 11 but in my estimation this passage ought to be directly connected to chapter 12 and its contents.
If I am correct we, at this point wrap up what appears to be the first series of visions referred to as the seven seals with the last three seals being the three woes.
At this point we enter into a new series of visions which it seems are intended to, like the others, to extend down to the consummation of all things – but they seem to follow a different line or track.
The former series traces the history down mainly through the series of civil changes in the world, or the outward affairs which affect the destiny of the church.
Here we seem to enter a portion that speaks to the same period with a more direct reference to the rise of Antichrist, and the influence of that power in affecting the destiny of the church.
When this is completed, (Re 11:19 and then Revelation chapters 12-19) the way will then be prepared (in Revelation 20-22) for a more complete statement of the final triumph of the gospel to be described – which is a description that all but full sold out preterists are sure has not happened.
So let’s read verse 19 of chapter 11 as if it was the first verse of the contents of Chapters 12-19.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
And the temple of God was opened in heaven. There of course was a temple mount on earth still – it was on Mt Moriah and was in Jerusalem and was supposed to have been built as a pattern of the heavenly one or the one in heaven.
Now turn with me to Hebrews chapter 8.
And read with me beginning at verse 1:
Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
All the way back at the book of Hebrews the writer says that the Old is ready to vanish away.
The Greek for ready (to vanish) is engoos, and it means it is at hand. People reading this have to at least be partial preterists, for goodness sakes.
And if all that was part of that Old Coventant was ready to pass away then I think we can safely say that the way the New Covenant was to work was READY to begin.
And how does the writer say this would look? Again:
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
If it was ready to pass away, then what was to replace it was ready to enter in – then.
And where would the temple of God be in the new? In heaven, as in a holy temple, of which that on earth was the emblem. When it is said that that was “opened in heaven,” the meaning is, that John was permitted, as it were, to look into heaven, the abode of God, and to see him in his glory.
And there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament.
Apparently the very interior of the heavenly temple was laid open and John was permitted to see inside of it with all of its hidden mysteries.
I would suggest that where John was seeing so much of what would be occurring (or what would have occurred in heaven) he was now seeing what was primarily a heavenly view of all things from this point forward.
Doing this he was presented with signs that were always associated with God and heaven when man is able to see into such a real – which is why he now describes
“and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.”
All of these things were part and signs of a changing administration – of the ending of the one and the entering of another.
We will pick chapter 12 up next week.
Q and A
Prayer
