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Sing the Word of God set to music (as a means to get it into our heads) and then we sit for a moment in silence here at the Church/Studio.
When we come back we pick up where we left off last week in our verse by verse study.
Revelation 11.Part II
Meat
October 22nd 2017
We left off reading and studying Chapter 11 verses 1-2 where John says in vision:
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
We talked all about this passage last week relative to the passages in Ezekiel. But I want to take note of one phrase we didn’t discuss in this first verse –
“Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, “and them that worship therein.”
John is given a reed that is used for measuring but he is also told to measure a people who are within the temple being measured.
Why and what on earth could this mean?
The temple – and the inner part where people could worship therein was only accessible to Jews. Jesus came for His own – they were true Israel.
To me, what this is saying is John was to number (measure – symbolically) the number of Jews who had received Christ by faith and were therefore those who made up the congregation of the temple inside – which would be synonymous with the church or the bride of Christ – His church.
Then the messenger (who I maintain is Jesus) says to John:
“But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.”
I would suggest that we have some distinctions to make at this juncture of this vision. Let me explain.
In Romans chapter 9 Paul says:
“For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.”
I take this to mean that true Israel is not known by blood but by faith – and I would suggest that who John is measuring are true Israel – Jew and Gentile alike – who would be found in the temple or in the church or bride of Christ.
This is who I would suggest John is measuring – how or who the bride is and not Jews in the Temple on Mount Moriah.
The twelve Apostles have been calling to them prior to the fall of Jerusalem and this includes Paul who was calling to the Gentiles and by faith were adopted into the House of Israel, becoming true Israel.
Romans chapter 11 explains some key things to know about Israel and the Gentiles relation to it relative to adoption with Paul using imagery of an olive tree.
Now read the next line/verse:
“But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:
In other words, and keeping in harmony with the theme of measuring the church, Jesus tells John not to include the part of the temple where the gentiles meet – why?
They are not Israel – they are not real Israel – they are not of faith in Him.
And what we have to realize here is that the interior of the temple (which the New Testament makes clear is spiritual and made of believers) is composed of Jews and Gentiles that the court of the Gentiles contains blood Jews.
This vision is a stepping up and away from the brick and mortar, material make up of the people of God but at this point Jesus Himself has asked John to measure TRUE Israel (as represented by those IN the Spiritual temple) and to NOT include those who remain outside (which are called Gentiles).
What makes this interpretation a little muddy is the next line which clearly intimates that the Gentiles would be the ones who would “tread the Holy City under foot forty and two months” – and who we know refers to the Romans.
Because of this we have a tendency to wrap the court of the Gentiles in with the Romans – which I think is a mistake. Its not that we couldn’t include the Romans into the Gentile mix – after all, as attackers of the Holy City they were not followers of Christ.
But in the end, I don’t believe those in the temple and those in the court of the Gentiles can be sequestered to represent the same parties that they represent in the rest of the Bible.
We have now shifted in this book of Revelation to see the fulfillment of all that the Bible was once pointing too – and this means a body of believers not defined by blood or ethnicity but by those who had received the blood of Christ and those who had not.
So, let’s talk about what the last line here is speaking specifically too – the destruction of the Holy City.
“and the holy city shall they (The Gentiles) tread under foot forty and two months.”
Following the precedence set in the Book of Ezekiel regarding the Babylonian invasion, John is told to measure the Temple as an angel had done in Ezekiel 40.
This temple – which again, I suggest is spiritual, a temple of believers, the church and is heavenly by the way – well, it’s measurements are described in Revelation 21.
Now listen – though this may or may not be a literal description of heaven, the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21 is also a symbol of the church, the new temple of God.
2 Corinthians 6:16 puts it this way:
“And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
This 42 month interval seems to closely correspond with the arrival of Vespasian in the early spring of A.D. 67 on to the fall of Jerusalem in September of A.D. 70, approximately 42 months later.
It is also possible that John is speaking of the 42 months between the arrival of Cestius (and the twelfth legion at Jerusalem during the Feast of Tabernacles in A.D. 66) to the actual start of the Roman attack on Jerusalem in Passover of A.D. 70, is exactly forty two months later too.
Of course we know that 42 months is 3.5 years which is huge in eschatalogical discussions.
If the trampling of the holy city in v. 2 is to be understood figuratively, then the “Gentiles” of v. 2 may be the Romans.
Now here’s a key – the Roman siege of Jerusalem lasted only five months but remember that the Roman offensive under the Flavians seems to have lasted forty-two.
As support for this claim Rabbinic tradition confirms the fact that Titus and Vespasian assaulted Israel for 42 months (or three and a half years) and this is recorded in the Midrash Rabbah Lamentations 1.31 and 1.40.
According to them, Vespasian was expected to be punished in Gehenna for three and a half years because that was the length of time in which he besieged Israel.
The way the angel describes what the gentiles will do to the Holy City is that they would “tread it underfoot” which is a figurative expression that means a military conquest or defeat.
Again, to tread an enemy underfoot is to subdue them, crush them, control them.
The biblical phrases,
Trample under foot, making ones enemy your footstool and tramping them into the dust are synonymous phrases in scripture:
Trample under foot:
2nd Samuel 22:38-39
1st King 5:3
Psalm 18:38 and 47:3
and Lamentations 3:34 all use this language, as well as the metaphor of “making ones enemy a footstool”
Psalm 110:1
Luke 20:43 and Act 2:25 as well as,
“trampling him into the dust (Psalm 7:5; 44:5; 56:1-2; 57:3; Isaiah 10:6; 14:25).
So the messenger tells John, “don’t include measuring the court of the Gentiles (meaning the people of the Roman army) because they are (for forty two months) trample the Holy City underfoot.
In Luke 21:20-24 similar language is used as what we read in verse 2 and refers to the breaking of the Roman army into Jerusalem immediately before its subsequent fall in A.D. 70. Listen to what Jesus says in the Gospel of Luke:
“When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Interestingly, after Jerusalem was conquered by the Romans the tenth legion was subsequently stationed in the city as a guard. Hence the Gentiles truly did trample on the city of Jerusalem during its conquest and after its fall.
Notice that Jesus told the disciples that they would see this event?
They had asked Him about their temple (Luke 21:5), and Jesus told them it would be destroyed before their generation passed away (Luke 21:32).
Notice again what Jesus said in verse 24 of Luke, that “Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles,” and that this is the same thing Christ told John in Revelation 11:2!
Verse 3 opens us up to the single most debated passage in all of Revelation, a passage that has more conjecture and difficulty that perhaps all passages of the Bible that are questioned.
Here we go.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Before we Go ANYWHERE with what has been said or suggested, we must look at the Greek and at other interpretations of the verse.
And
The Greek offers us little in terms of divergent interpretation as didomi means power, and martus means witnesses and duo means two and propheteuo means prophesy and chilioi means one thousand, etc, etc.
The only differences in translations is the words used for power as the
(YLT) and I will give to My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy days, a thousand, two hundred, sixty, arrayed with sackcloth;
Re 11:3 (WNT) And I will authorize My two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.
Re 11:3 (RSV) And I will grant my two witnesses power to prophesy for one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
Re 11:3 (Oracl) And I will give to my two witnesses commission, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.
Okay, that’s done and there is nothing much to learn there.
Among futurists, these witnesses have been variously identified as Enoch & Elijah, Moses & Elijah, two Mormon missionaries, or two future Jewish-Christian converts.
The convenient thing for futurists is that this event, in their estimation has not happened and so conjecture is less threatening and simply a matter of “wait and see.”
For the preterist identifying the two witnesses can be a little more troubling. Oh, let’s be frank, it is a biggie in the arguments against preterism because none of the solutions are as convincing as other arguments that they present.
Why? Well as you know whether we are talking about full or partial preterism both groups believe that the vision of the two witnesses has happened.
If this is true the two have to be identified within the period from 30 – 70 AD (meaning between the ascension of Jesus Christ to the fall of Jerusalem forty years later).
And while a number of really good suggestions have been made for the identity of the two witnesses most of them come short of explaining all the criteria required by the vision.
Obviously the list is subject to differing views as to what are signs that must happen and then what each sign actually means but a running list seems to include:
(ON BOARD)
Obviously no one from the early church period meets all the requirements of the vision actually but if the text can be taken as figuratively or symbolically some individuals suggested do come close.
As a result, preterists have had to take the information presented here symbolically and as either representing
a body of people (for example the body of witnessing Christians)
or possibly a relative duality (The Law & The Prophets, The Old & New Testaments)
Or one person manifested through two representations (we’ll discuss this view in the weeks to come).
Or two persons who life events amalgamate into a collective of the events said to happen (like John the Baptist and Jesus).
A number of preterists (even dating back to the 1800’s – like a guy named Moses Stuart) dismiss the John the Baptist/Jesus theory there are some cool parallels to them fulfilling the role of the two witnesses or martyrs.
This brings us to what Moses Stuart call his “Better Claim” to the identity of the two witnesses – that of Ananus & Joshua.
Two people you may not have ever heard of before.
And admittedly, this is going to open us up to a wild explanation – but one that is worth some time and consideration.
Ananus was a former high priest and leader in Jerusalem during the time of the Roman-Jewish war.
Joshua was an acting high priest during this same period.
Both men promoted peace and vied for the safety of Jerusalem in direct opposition to the Zealots who promoted rebellion and war – and led the City of Peace to its destruction .
Their lives and deaths closely parallel the vision of the two witnesses both figuratively and literally.
For example, Revelation 11:4 makes a direct reference to a prophecy by Zechariah (Zech 4) which most scholars acknowledge refers to Joshua, the High Priest, and Zerubbabel the Davidic Governor who led the Israelites back from captivity from Babylon in the sixth century B.C.
Since Ananus and Joshua also represented civil and religious authority, they certainly can be said to fulfill this portion of the prophecy.
More literally, the record of their deaths makes a striking parallel to those of the two witnesses in Revelation.
In Josephus’s, The Jewish War, we read the following quotes:
“For there broke out a great storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with…rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowing of the earth, that was in an earthquake.”
“And that day, as it came on, they saw 8,500 dead bodies there.”
“But the rage of the Idumeans was not satiated by these slaughters…but they sought for the high priests . . . and as soon as they caught them they killed them, and standing upon their dead bodies, in way of jest, upbraided Ananus with his kindness to the people, and Joshua with his speech made to them…Nay, they proceeded to that degree of impiety, as to cast away their dead bodies without burial.”
And
“I should not make a mistake if I said that the death of Ananus was the beginning of the destruction of the city…”
Some suggest that Ananus would never be one of the two witnesses because he was the one who, also according to Josephus, has Jesus brother James put to death.
Nevertheless, that portion of history may or may NOT be accurate. Let’s look at a chart to compare the theory that the two are Ananus and Joshua:
While we have marked YES for earthquake history proves that the earthquake recorded by Josephus occurred BEFORE the deaths of Ananus and Joshua so this a sketchy.
Nevertheless, we remember that recapitulation is common literary device within the visions of Revelation, so the order of the events is not as critical as the events themselves.
The number of deaths is different too that Josephus stated but its pretty close in range.
John’s record of 7000 may simply be a symbolic rounding of the higher number 8500.
The next theory is that Moses and Elijah were the two witnesses. This is one of the more long lasting theories. Here’s a chart
This is a common theory held by Futurists as the miracles that are to be performed by the two witnesses closely parallel those performed by the two Old Testament prophets.
For instance, Elijah’s prayers caused drought for over three years (1Kings 17:1, James 5:17).
The final two miracles of turning water to blood and striking the earth with plagues recalls the miracle of Moses and the ten plagues.
Both men called fire from heaven to slay their enemies (Moses – Exodus 9:23; Elijah – 2Kings 1).
In addition, Elijah was said to were sackcloth (2Kings 1:8), had a showdown with his enemies after a period of roughly 3 ½ years (James 5:17, 1Kings 18) and ascended to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kings 2:11).
Moses was the leader of the Israelites during the Exodus from Egypt, fulfilling in part Revelation 11:4.
Besides their similarity to the two witnesses, Elijah was said to come before the “day of the Lord” (Malachi 4:5; Matthew 17:10, 11).
These same two same prophets also appeared together with Jesus Christ on the day of his transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).
So there’s that theory. Then there’s another popular theory – Elijah & Enoch – primarily because neither of them saw death (according to Genesis 5:24 and 2Kings 2:11).
The thinking was that God would raise faithful preachers among the Jews, at the
period when the nation was ready to perish; that those preachers would be
persecuted and destroyed and that the Christian cause would be triumphant in part because of them.
Then there are those who believe that the two witnesses are Peter & James the brother of Christ.
Aside from being murdered by their enemies there is little evidence for this theory.
The proposals for the identity of the two witnesses are myriad and these quick rehearsals on the white board don’t really do them justice.
Another more spiritual reading of the two witnesses, and I am not going to go too deeply into it because it is so subject to manipulation is the two witnesses represent both the Old Covenant and then the New.
See, from the ascension to the destruction of Jerusalem (with its temple, priesthood, genealogy) the two systems co-existed with each other (and not very well, we might add).
Let’s look then at the descriptions of these two witnesses and see if what John is told can old water:
In any case, all of this leads us to a final supposition to consider from a preterist point of view. Instead of making the two witnesses symbolic or non-literal, perhaps we are overlooking the nature of one of the witnesses which is plainly described to us:
There was once a man who prophesied for three and a half years. True? True.
was hated by the Jewish elite
was flogged by a Roman procurator “yet he did not open his mouth,”
and was killed on Passover.
Based on this description, who is the first person to come to mind?
If you answered Jesus, you are correct. Now stay with me – we are going to exit the room today with a wild thought.
Go with me back to our story of the man named Ananus. Of him Josephus wrote:
“But, what is still more terrible, there was one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, who, four years before the war began, and at a time when the city was in very great peace and prosperity, came to that feast whereon it is our custom for every one to make tabernacles to God in the temple, began on a sudden to cry aloud, “A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!”
This was his cry, as he went about by day and by night, in all the lanes of the city. However, certain of the most eminent among the populace had great indignation at this dire cry of his, and took up the man, and gave him a great number of severe stripes; yet did not he either say any thing for himself, or any thing peculiar to those that chastised him, but still went on with the same words which he cried before. Hereupon our rulers, supposing, as the case proved to be, that this was a sort of divine fury in the man, brought him to the Roman procurator, where he was whipped till his bones were laid bare; yet he did not make any supplication for himself, nor shed any tears, but turning his voice to the most lamentable tone possible, at every stroke of the whip his answer was, “Woe, woe to Jerusalem!”
And when Albinus (for he was then our procurator) asked him, Who he was? and whence he came? and why he uttered such words? he made no manner of reply to what he said, but still did not leave off his melancholy ditty, till Albinus took him to be a madman, and dismissed him.
Now, during all the time that passed before the war began, this man did not go near any of the citizens, nor was seen by them while he said so; but he every day uttered these lamentable words, as if it were his premeditated vow, “Woe, woe to Jerusalem!” Nor did he give ill words to any of those that beat him every day, nor good words to those that gave him food; but this was his reply to all men, and indeed no other than a melancholy presage of what was to come. This cry of his was the loudest at the festivals; and he continued this ditty for seven years and five months, without growing hoarse, or being tired therewith, until the very time that he saw his presage in earnest fulfilled in our siege, when it ceased; for as he was going round upon the wall, he cried out with his utmost force, “Woe, woe to the city again, and to the people, and to the holy house!” And just as he added at the last, “Woe, woe to myself also!” there came a stone out of one of the engines, and smote him, and killed him immediately; and as he was uttering the very same presages he gave up the ghost.
I want you to all go home and chew on the description of this Jesus, the Son of Ananus.
And when we come back together next week we will talk about Him in relation to that other Jesus we are very familiar with – Jesus of Nazareth.
Q and A
Prayer
