Heart of the Matter: Seventeen Points Part III – Apostles

LIVE! From the Mecca of Mormonism! SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH. This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. Show 19 Seventeen Points Part III – Apostles. April 29th 2008. And I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.

Event Announcement

This coming Monday evening, Cinco de Mayo, in Sandy, baptism for all interested in publicly professing Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Go to: www.bornagainmormon.com

A Personal Reflection

The Lord certainly works in mysterious ways. (review of Atlanta visit) Most of you who have watched the show know I was LDS for forty years, listened to a radio preacher in Southern California, received Jesus as my Lord and Savior roadside, and became a Christian through rebirth. Four years later I wrote a book, asked to be excommunicated, entered a school of ministry in Southern California, and in a very roundabout way, got an opportunity to host this show.

In all these years, I never informed that radio teacher of what he led me to do. Three months ago, our station manager and his wife, Denny and Michele, were in Atlanta, Georgia for the National Religious Broadcast Convention where they had the opportunity to meet Dr. Charles Stanley who was the radio teacher that led me to the Lord. They gave him a copy of my book, which details the story of my conversion. He read the section and invited me out to meet with him in Atlanta. Saturday night, Mary and I flew to Atlanta and Sunday morning were guests of Dr. Charles Stanley at his church. Not only was I able to thank him – hug him – in person for his ministry and life’s work…

A Call for Action

Hey! Have you gotten the courage to send your message yet to the LDS headquarters? Have you taken the time to tell them in no uncertain clarifying terms that you want out and off their records? Join with us – make a commitment – to let Mormonism today know that you are NOT interested in being associated with the religion as it has and currently stands.

Send a message that you want Jesus at the forefront before you or your family will ever attend their services again. Tell them to renounce polygamy and to apologize for it. Tell them to remove section 132, the Book of Abraham and the rites of exaltation demanded of its members. Get up and send them a message loud and clear: “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out!”

A Discussion on Doctrinal Differences

The unsightly polygamous situation in Texas has given many some pause for reflection. Faithful supporter Grandpa Al and his brother John passed this thought along to me: The LDS church has made it clear that in no uncertain terms are the FLDS in southern Utah and Texas part of Mormonism proper. They have labeled the FLDS “an offshoot,” a “fallen sect,” and a people who bottom-line cannot be considered true Latter-day Saints.

What gives them the right to make these claims? As we mentioned last week, the FLDS are far closer doctrinally to being true Latter-day Saints than the Salt Lake City Church. Why does the Salt Lake City church get to say who is LDS and who is not? Because they have money and lawyers and more members? You see, they think they have the right to say who is Mormon and who is not, but Christians don’t have the right to say who is Christian and who is not.

They want their cake and to eat it too – in everything! They go ballistic when the FLDS are tied to their organization but get offended when Christians have the same response to them being tied to the body of Christ! The solution? The Bible. Pure and simple.

Gratitude and Prayer

Finally, we want to take a moment and thank all of you for the kindness and consideration you have given us toward the ministry. The information you send us, your words of encouragement, the prayers you send up – even those who have chosen to support us financially – have truly been a blessing to the ministry. May God bless each of you for whatever form of support you have offered on behalf of this work to reach others with the Truth of Jesus Christ. And with that, let’s have a prayer.

PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER

38: The True Church must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets.

(NOTE: Peter combined two phrases from Psalms into one to determine this was what needed to be done: Psalms 109:8 and Psalms 69:25) We’ve been in the process of examining what the LDS call the “Seventeen Points of the True Church.” Last week we discussed the first two. Tonight, we will cover the third, which reads:

Now, take a minute and…

Understanding the Foundation of Apostles and Prophets

Look at the strategy being used here in this statement. They take a Biblical passage, like Ephesians 2:19, which is unquestionably true, and they quote it:

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.

But!

But!

They then supply their special but altogether errant interpretation of what the passage means! Is the Gospel of Jesus Christ built upon a foundation of apostles and prophets? Absolutely! This is biblical truth.

Misinterpretation of the Foundation

So how are the LDS abusing this passage with their interpretation? What do Christians think this passage means? On this point alone, I don’t know why at least fifty percent of LDS people don’t have their names removed from the records of the Church. Let me explain why. Paul calls believers a “household of God,” and says they are “built upon a foundation of apostles and prophets.”

Now if you were to build a house, you would start with a foundation, and once it was laid and cured, you would begin to build your house upon it, right? How often would you go back, tear down the house, then tear up the foundation? Would you tear the house down every week, month, year, to re-pour the foundation over and over again? Of course not! How many times does the foundation of a household have to be laid? Once. It is the foundation!

You might redecorate or remodel. You might paint or add aluminum siding to the building, but the foundation remains in place – unless it is faulty and cracked. Did Jesus lay a faulty foundation? No, He built upon the foundation He laid. Because He laid it with apostles and prophets, with Jesus Himself serving as the chief cornerstone!

The Permanent Foundation

Now here’s a real kicker – we KNOW that once the foundation was laid, it was laid permanently – once and forever, and we know this by looking at the Greek. The word used here – which is the participle – “epoikodo methentes” in proper syntax is translated “having been built.” It’s an aorist passive participle, referring to a past action and in this specific case, it is an action that has been completed! It’s been done!

My friends, the LDS church’s system constantly uproots and demolishes the early Christian foundation which Jesus laid permanently by replacing it over and over again with unqualified men.

“What?” “What do you mean, “unqualified men? How could you say such a thing, you mean, mean man?” “Why, our apostles are the most qualified men on earth! Why, they are judges, and physicians, and life-long faithful members of the church!”

It is not to their worldly stature or their clean living that qualifies or disqualifies them as true apostles. In first Corinthians 9:1 Paul writes:

Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?

When the apostles sought to replace Judas with someone to continue on as a personal witness – which was prophesied should occur and which is why they did it – they looked for an individual which (it says in Acts chapter 1):

“had companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

So Jesus established His Church upon apostles who, as Paul said, “have seen Him,” and as Peter said, were “witnesses of His resurrection.”

Now as witnesses of Him and His resurrection, none of the apostles ever hesitated in proclaiming their special witness of Him. In fact, they all – except John the beloved – were martyred for their very verbal and vocal testimony of whom they witnessed with their own eyes!

Since Joseph Smith supposedly restored the church back to the earth, there have been upwards of eighty to a hundred or more “LDS apostles.” How many of them stand and uncategorically state that they have seen Jesus with their eyes?

I want to know! Make me a fool. Show me the error of my ways. Prove me a reprobate in need of repentance. Tell me – testify to us – that you LDS apostles have seen with your eyes the resurrected Lord. Don’t play nuance games with us. Don’t wink and say “we really know.” Tell us plainly that you have seen Jesus Christ. Tell us with your mouths that you have seen Him with your eyes!

Examination of LDS Apostleship Claims

If you haven’t seen Him with your eyes, will you please admit this too? Please.

Because if you haven’t seen Him with your eyes (He still has His Body, you know) you have been deceiving millions of people with this charade.

But not being an actual witness is only one reason the LDS apostles are not true apostles.

Differences Between Biblical and LDS Apostleship

Let’s look at other reasons to reject Mormonism's claim to having “apostles and prophets?” First, why does the Bible always read “apostles and prophets” but the LDS say “prophet and apostles?” Aside from the fact that there were always many, many prophets wandering around in biblical times (including female prophetesses) the LDS hierarchy of a single Prophet and replacement apostles is another twisted representation of biblical truth. Why does the Bible always list apostles first and prophets second? This is the order in the “church” Jesus established.

The apostles spoken of in Ephesians 2:19 were first-hand witnesses of Jesus and held the “office of apostle” in the foundation of the Lord’s church. Jesus trained and taught them His gospel so they could take it out to the world, setting hearts alight with His saving truths. Upon their witness, the Church would miraculously grow and expand.

Role of Prophets in Biblical Times

The “prophets” spoken of in the same passage refer to those men who held the “office of prophet” prior to His ascension which includes, but is not limited to Noah, Moses, Abraham, Nathan, Hosea, Amos, Joel, Jonah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Obadiah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Ezekiel and Daniel, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi, and John the Baptist.

So, upon the foundation of the office of apostle (who were first-hand witnesses) and the office of prophets (those who came testifying before Him), Jesus built His church. These offices are to be differentiated from apostles who are sent out today and people who possess the gift of prophecy now. These offices were foundational to the spiritual house Jesus built.

And what about the idea that the apostles of Jesus called continue to be replaced by new men. Mormonism claims to have modern-day apostles who are filling the vacated offices of the twelve Jesus originally built His Church upon. The first “apostles” of Mormonism came about by way of a revelation to the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon who then chose the first “replacement twelve apostles” of the LDS restoration.

Paul's Perspective on Apostles

But Paul said in 1st Corinthians 4:9: “For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God.: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.”

It is clear from this passage that the office of apostle was a one-time situation (they were last) that they were appointed unto death (meaning they would die for the cause) and that they would be made a spectacle before the world, and angels, and men! Does this in any way match the way an apostle lives today? Instead of being last, they continue. Instead of being appointed unto death, they are protected! Instead of being a spectacle, they are revered! Revered!

Then there are the simple numbers to consider. In the Book of RevelationA symbolic prophecy fulfilled in 70 A.D.—not a prediction of future global events. (21:14) it states that the wall around God’s heavenly city is supported by “twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the lamb.” Wooops. Even the foundation of heaven – not just the Church of Jesus – but the foundation of heaven! is built upon twelve pillars named after the twelve apostles of the Lamb!

Now the LDS argue that if there are only Twelve apostles, why did the first apostles get together and call someone (Mathias) to replace Judas when he killed himself? First, and as I already mentioned, to fulfill prophecy. Peter states this when they called the replacement man Mathias.

Second, they had a mission to fulfill – to “kick-start” the gospel so to speak – and God initiated twelve men – representing the twelve tribes – to do the work. Once it was kick-started, the work was done. Third, the apostles, under impetuous Peter’s lead, called Mathias after limiting the candidates to just two men. All of this occurred by their own will and prior to the arrival of the holy spirit. God had another idea – Paul – who He called later on.

Finally, there is no continuing office of apostle as Timothy gives us no qualifications for the position, as he does for a bishop, deacon, an elder, etc. Are you beginning to see the mockery of Mormonism’s continuing “revolving” door of apostles? Can you see what an insult these men are to the twelve who lost their everything for the cause.

Apostleship in Context

My friends, the twelve of Jesus ate the dust of the earth. They were mistreated, they suffered, and they gave their all – even their very lives – to share Jesus with the world. In the narrow sense (or, the “office of Apostle,”) they were hand chosen by Jesus Christ, were witnesses of Him, and performed great miracles in His name. The LDS apostles meet none of these conditions for apostleship either.

Now, I mentioned that there is a wider sense of the word, apostle, and it means “one sent.” There were many ones “sent” in the Word who were known as “apostles” like Barnabus, Andronicus, Junia, etc. But they did not fill the office of apostle. I could be considered an apostle in the broader sense of the word as I have been sent, by God, to Utah. Get it?

Examination of LDS Apostleship Claims

There is another issue to consider with the so-called restored gospel and apostles. The first thing Jesus did at the start of His ministry was to call His apostles – so they could witness all things. The LDS Church was established in 1830. It wasn’t until five years later that Joseph had the idea to add apostles to his foundation. So what was the true Church founded on for those five years when they were without apostles? Was it the true church then?

Finally, in relation to apostles, why do you suppose no “Bible-believing, Bible studying, truth-seeking Christians” have ever established twelve apostles in one of their churches? There are some of the world’s greatest scholars who understand biblical exegesis and interpretation who have never said: “We need twelve apostles! We need twelve apostles!” Why? Because they know what being an apostle means, what their purposes were, and the narrow and broad context in which the word is used in the Bible today.

The Claim of Twelve Living Apostles

But the LDS church sends tens of thousands of young clean cut representatives out into the world everyday who arrogantly and ignorantly claim they represent the Lord’s one and only true church by asking: “How many other churches do you know that have twelve living apostles.” Unsuspecting people respond, “Uhhh, none, I guess.” “Exactly,” the missionaries reply. And another convert steps into the waters of Mormonism.

You know, the New Testament speaks about false apostles too. In 2nd Corinthians 11:13 it describes them: “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.” I guess in a similar but opposite vein we Christians should start asking: “Where on earth is there a Church that has men who claim to have been “transformed into apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ?”

(beat)

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