The Heart of Christian Faith
Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity
SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH – This is Heart of the Matter, where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity, face to face.
Show 38 368 Five Point Calvinism Part V
November 19th, 2013
And I’m your host Shawn McCraney
We praise the True and Living God for allowing us to participate in this ministry. May He be with you (and us) tonight.
Challenges in Ministry
We received this email from Cathy, a devoted follower of HOTM and Alathea Ministries saying:
“I think it is apparent that there has been a dark cloud hovering around Shawn for a few weeks….His temperament, another new direction apparently regarding Hell and obviously the things that come with running a ministry in Utah and his determination to stand up for the Lord against the 'stiff necked' Mormons… We are hanging in there with Shawn. I just hope he is not getting off track again. We pray for the ministry and for Shawn's stability. With the utmost Love and Prayers.”
Thank you Cathy for “still hanging in with me.” Unfortunately, sadly, if history proves anything, I don’t think it will be for long. You all would be amazed at the number of brothers and sisters and friends who have turned – but I suppose this makes those of you who continue all the more appreciated.
Maintaining Faithful Belief
How about a thought for your consideration –
“Christians do not get to make up what they believe – everything must be couched in the solid context of the biblical view. This being said, we are certainly NOT obligated to kow-tow to the ideas of man, no matter how traditional, popular or appealing they are to the senses, masses, or even the historical church.” – Jacqui Assimov
RUN GRAPHIC OF QUOTE
You know, I’d like to pause a minute and publicly thank God. I thank Him for life, breath, opportunity, and the unconditional love He bestows upon all of His creations. I praise Him for His Only Begotten Son, who saved a wretch like us. For His spirit that sanctifies us. Along with most of you, I seek to worship Him in Spirit and Truth – not by “my flesh and in Error” – but in Spirit and in Truth.
Those who seek to do the same – and I would lump most viewers of our programming as truth seekers – know that in order to honestly worship God in Spirit and in Truth, nothing else can come between us and Him and His will – nothing can take precedence. Most Christians increasingly understand this concept in stages and over the course of time.
Spiritual Maturity
I mean we understand pretty early on in our walk that as believers we ought to put away our obvious false Gods. It’s kind of a given, right? Can’t worship the Living God and a little tin idol on the mantle, can we? Then we start to see that in order to really worship Him we have to (by His Spirit) put some distance between our lives of fleshly living and our lives as His. So then “by and through His spirit” we become more empowered and equipped to set aside the deeds of the flesh which were so present in our former lives. But again, these things are just the beginning of a truly devoted and sold-out Christian walk.
A Lesson from the Rich Young Ruler
Remember the rich young ruler who came to Christ one day? He approached the Lord and said:
“Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” And Jesus said unto him, “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” He saith unto him, “Which?” Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” The young man saith unto him, “All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?” Jesus said unto him, “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.”
(Matthew 19:16-22)
The story is full of tremendous spiritual implications but for our purposes tonight we can see that this man had progressed in his religious attempts to reaching God, and by the time he was
Perceptions of Relationship with God
Conversing with the Lord he seems to have most of it together. But we note that he knew something was missing—he, like all of us, “could tell.” He knew He was selling His relationship with God short. So he came to the Lord and said, “What do I need to do? What else?”
Notice that even though he had lived an apparently good life since his youth that the Lord did not let him off the hook. No, God is constantly seeking to move each and every one of us closer to Him—and so Jesus told the young man of the remaining thing that was working as an impediment between him and life eternal.
This story illustrates a major issue Christians have with Mormonism. Not only does the LDS church not eliminate the obstacles that get in between man and God but it actually produces and reinforces them. For the typical LDS member, family, culture, occupation, politics (and of course a sold-out devotion and allegiance to their own church and its leaders) frequently get right in between them and worshipping God in spirit and truth.
And so we strive ardently to get LDS members to realize or see this about themselves and their relationship to Him. Where many critics of our ministry believe that we are out to “destroy lives” the reality is we are striving to help them experience real life—rich and abundant eternal life through the unhindered, direct, unencumbered worship of God in Spirit and Truth.
Challenges in Religious Institutions
I would be unfair if I suggested, however, that the LDS stand alone as a religion institution which places obstacles between God and Man. Many non-LDS churches and their leadership are no better as they seek to maintain and grow what they have started rather than pursue the truth.
I suppose what I am trying to point out is the fact that none of us—LDS and not—can or should allow any precepts or construct of Man to get in between us and our direct relationship to God. Take it for what it’s worth.
And with that, how about a moment from the Word?
Run “From the Word” here
You may or may not have noticed that since assuming our own studio we have taken a small step toward being more friendly than when we were on local television here in Utah. Maybe you long for the days of rants and raves with LDS callers. Maybe you appreciated Heart of the Matter because I served as a voice for you and your frustrations with Mormonitiousness and their ugly Twistianity.
Admittedly, the approach served a purpose and remains available to any and all who are interested in this form of Christian dialogue. Whether you realize this or not, I have literally grown up as a believer in the public eye. You may fault me for this but you can take your complaints to God.
In fact, while I attended Calvary Chapel School of Ministry, and was required to serve there in the church, I have not attended more than 15 Christian Church services in all my life. I left Mormonism officially in 2001. Never went to a full Christian service until I entered Calvary Chapel in 2004, wrote Born-Again Mormon, and in 2006, while still in school, was offered to host my own show.
Reflections on Personal Journey
In terms of experience in the Body I was unquestionably a babe. Yes, I knew the Bible fairly well and Mormonism even better, and looking back, I am now able to see how the Lord has brought me along. It was not conventional—but NOTHING in my life has ever been.
See I started, as a Latter-day Saint, no different than a Jew steeped in the “Law.” The “musts,” and “must nots,” of religiosity. Like many of you I tried to please God by doing right as a Latter-Day Saint—but their law only made me an arrogant bastard (because I conformed) or filled me with shame (because I failed to conform.
Little did I realize what God was doing in my life as a Mormon—He was showing me, first hand, what Roman 3:20 says:
“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
The LDS say, do this, do that and you will be pleasing to God, not realizing that the presence of the Law will always work to make men sinful not better. No law, no sin.
Journey in the Christian Faith
The next phase of my Christian walk—liberty—afforded to me by the grace of God through the shed blood of His only begotten Son. I blossomed in this phase of my faith and walk right on live television each and every week, relishing in the freedom and liberty there was and is in Christ Jesus. I mean after forty years of being under the burden of LDS law, which (again) only served to make me ashamed or proud (as the Law is meant to do), I stepped onto a live television stage and was able to proclaim Jesus as the way, truth, and life!
The liberty I discovered in Him resonated through almost every program we taped. It allowed me to speak from the heart, to express myself openly, to question anything and everything under the sun, and to reject those things which present themselves as a danger to this phase in the Christian walk. Jesus hit on what drove me during those years, saying in John 8:36:
“If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
Paul added in Romans 8:2:
“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
And as a warning to not go backward to elements of the law, Paul said in Galatians 5:1:
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.”
The Liberation of Christ
Stepping back, the Jews, when they were under the law, looked around at the rest of the world (the great unwashed, in their opinion) and had a very difficult time believing that any other peoples could be pleasing to God but themselves (and their approach to Him through the Law). But then along comes Jesus and His chosen twelve and suddenly the Gentile world of believers are exposed to this tremendous liberty that comes only in and through Jesus Christ!
Many, many people (Jews, Mormons, and a number of Christians) get stuck on the first “L”—the Law, and continue to believe that only those who are obedient to its demands are acceptable to God. But many who either were under the yoke of the law or of sin (it’s really the same thing), having come to know Christ, rejoice in the liberty which He can only provide—and they relish in this liberty.
In my life experience as a Christian, such amazing liberty paradoxically arrives with an ardent devotion to doctrine. Having been so greatly liberated and freed by Him, recipients of His grace tend to zealously defend anything that seeks to thwart, challenge, or counterfeit His free and wonderful gift.
From Law to Liberty
It was from this state, in this second phase of liberty, that I hosted Heart of the Matter on TV 20. And I did it with all I had, all my heart, all I up to that point embraced and believed and was taught to be true. Like fans of early Beatle music, many of our fans really want me to remain where I was—free from Law and ardently fighting for the Liberty we all experience in Christ when we come to know Him. But is there more? Another phase?
Is God bent on taking all people out from under law and into the zealous liberty in Christ only to keep us there? I would strongly suggest that the answer to this is no—He is not. There is another phase awaiting…LAW, the LIBERTY…and finally…LOVE.
1st John 3:23 says:
“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”
The Final Phase: Love
In the next chapter we read:
1st John 4:7-8 “Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.”
Yes, to share the truth (stripped of all deception) is loving. But in my phase of “Jesus liberty,” I, like many of my brothers and sisters who remain there, became a “stumbling block to them that are weak.” So certainly, where “the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty,” but as Paul adds, “only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.”
Many of you have had the unfortunate experience of having to watch me mature in Christ, going from
From LAW to
LIBERTY, (and now to)
LOVE.
I pray that as we
Understanding Protestant Soteriology
Progress forward, I will have greater love and understanding for the Jews, Mormons, and Christians who presently believe that by the Law they are Worthy, that I will patiently bear with the many who revel in Christ Jesus and His liberating grace, and that you will try and bear with me as I believe I have stepped into a biblically mandated phase of love. Whatever occurs, thank you for your patience and forbearance.
And with that, how about a Word of prayer?
PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER
PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER
Alright then. Thus far we’ve tackled several points of the acronym assigned to Calvin’s massive theological summary of Protestant Soteriology known as T.U.L.I.P.
A Closer Look at TULIP
In light of what we have covered thus far (over the past few weeks) which include teachings on:
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election, and
Limited Atonement
We received the following email from a viewer (Kevin) who said (in part):
“I've been watching your TULIP episodes with great interest, as I am a Protestant who believes in the doctrines presented in TULIP. I wanted to provide you with a few thoughts so far (as it seems your series is soon to be wrapping up). First, your disgust with hyper-Calvinism is legitimate. It's non-confessional (Dort, WCF, BCF, FCF, ETC). It's not taught by John Calvin himself. I want to celebrate your denunciation of it. However, I cannot celebrate at times where you seem to muddle the lines and claim that it is Calvinism. As I'm sure you know hyper-Calvinism starts to rise up 300 years after John Calvin. You have at times cited R.C. Sproul during the series. R.C. Sproul goes as far in his OWN writings to call the "controlling" or automaton Calvinism you're describing and identifying with Calvinists as "Anti-Calvinist".
(That's a good sign – of which I wasn’t aware)
Here is a short article where he does this very thing:
(SHOW LINK GRAPHIC)
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/double-predestination/
I understand you might have limited time to read the article, but the subtitles The Double-Predestination Distortion and The Reformed View of Predestination would be a cliff notes version of his larger point. Ultimately, I think TULIP is best understood using the "Thy will be done" framework. Those who “are elect” will (through the work of the Holy Spirit) want the Lord's Will to be done. Those “non-elect” will always have the same desires of the very first sin in the Garden… In the final analysis, they want to be their own God.
Actually, as a Calvinist, I completely agree in your confidence of allowing those who have come to Christ to leave the Mormon Church in their own good pleasure. And he goes on with some other insights.
5.5 k
[text/html]
Considering Different Perspectives
So thank you, Kevin. Let me make a few things clear in light of your email – If I am blurring the lines between “Hyper-Calvinism” and “Five Point Calvinism” it is done in ignorance and I apologize. I am not nearly as adept in these waters as others and can and will make errant assumptions along the way. And while I will never embrace either the Reformed view (nor especially the Hyper-Calvinist view of soteriology) I readily acknowledge that embracing the views do not exclude anyone from the throne of Grace.
I have never believed that a “peculiar ideology” can save or damn an individual – even many LDS ideologies. But I do think they can be damaging (hindrances) to the full Christian walk. We are exploring Five Point Calvinism as a means to help viewers understand what Joseph Smith understood Calvinism to be (and I think for the most part we’ve been able to articulate a pretty clear view of how he most likely viewed its tenets). And yes, along the way, I am openly asking if there is not a better or alternative way in thinking about these things as Bible believers (which I suggest there is and will unveil it in a few weeks). Nevertheless, this is NOT a wholesale indictment on Five Pointers and their faith and reliance and trust in God.
In fact, I find the temperament and adoration for God that flows from men like RC Sproul, James White, and John Piper truly devotional – and I do not judge their Christianity in any way – in fact, I try not to judge ANY individuals Christianity – like Kevin, I leave that completely up to God. But in light of scripture, I have a very difficult time accepting the idea that while being sovereign (which I do accept) that a God of love would author such a system. The tenets are incongruent to me.
Alright, so T.U.L.”I.”P.
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement and now, “Irresistible Grace.”
Irresistible Grace in Calvinism
The letters of the Tulip, “Irresistable Grace” is tied directly to the other points before and after it. In other words, if a Sovereign God unconditionally elects certain depraved souls to life eternal, and Jesus atones for their sins alone (and not those of the rest of the world), then the grace He extends to His chosen elect (being sovereign) will be received. In other words, to the Calvinist, God is all-powerful, and his intentions will be realized so therefore nothing happens that He has not decreed.
In light of this, Calvinists say that the elect will be elected, they will not refuse election, and in the end, they will remain faithful to the election – because God has determined this to be so from the foundation of the world due to His own good will and pleasure. Calvinist E. Palmer wrote something interesting, saying: “Do not misunderstand the word irresistible. To some, it may give the meaning of causing someone to do what he does not want to do. . . . All that irresistible grace means is that God sends his Holy Spirit to work in the lives of people so that they will definitely and certainly be changed from evil to good people. It means that the Holy Spirit will certainly—without any and’s, if’s and but’s—cause everyone whom God has chosen from eternity and for whom Christ died to believe in Jesus.”
Perspectives on Irresistible Grace
I have an issue with this statement because it opens with saying we are not to misunderstand “irresistible” to mean that “the Holy Spirit causes someone to do what they don’t want to do,” but then says, it just means that the Holy Spirit “. . . without any and’s, if’s and but’s—cause everyone whom God has chosen from eternity and for whom Christ died to believe in Jesus.” My pea brain can’t tell the difference. But another Calvinist named Timothy George says something that rings far truer to me, saying:
(Irresistible Grace . . .) “means simply that God is able to accomplish what He has determined to do in the salvation of lost men and women. Arminians are right to protest the notions of mechanical necessity and impersonal determinism suggested (and sadly sometimes taught) under the banner of irresistible grace. God created human beings with free moral agency, and He does not violate this even in the supernatural work of regeneration. Christ does not rudely bludgeon His way into the human heart. He does not abrogate his creaturely freedom. No, He beckons and woos. He pleads and pursues, He waits and wins.”
Alright, I get that – not in harmony with the other three points already discussed but all alone I agree. It seems like the picture of irresistible grace the Calvinist presents is one of the Good Shepherd going after the lost sheep and pursuing it until it has been collected (or redeemed).
Personal Reflections on Calvinistic Thought
Bottom line, God will bring/entice/lead his elect to salvation. It is my opinion (and it is based solely on conjecture) but in my opinion Joseph Smith had such disdain for Calvinistic thought that he naturally provided another view when it comes to Irresistible grace.
You know, we are about 2000 emails behind but we want you all to know we do get them, do read them, and take everything you say into account. Sometimes your words are perfectly timed to our needs in ministry. For example, this recent email from Patty encouraged us greatly as it said:
Ah, Mr. McCraney, I have a love/hate relationship with you. Actually, a hate/love relationship. Your show was instrumental in my leaving the LDS church and finding a relationship with Jesus. My husband started to question the religion first and would watch your show. I HATED it. I’d hear your voice on the TV and my blood would boil. Just walking into the room and hearing your voice would bring out such anger in me. I had to find out for myself if what you, and my husband were saying was true. I’m blessed to have a job that allows me to listen to whatever so I’d listen to your shows at work and was blown away. I was a convert, my husband, and I married.
Testimony and Ministry Reflections
In the temple. It caused a lot of problems in our marriage for a year or so while we were each led separately to the Truth.
I recently listened to you give your testimony at a conference, I believe in Arizona. I am amazed at the wild ride you and your family have been on and I thank God that he called you to this, and thank you that you answered. I can only imagine how difficult ministry can be for you at times and wanted you to know of the “fruit” of your efforts. In the tiny bit of evangelism I’ve done, it gets real discouraging, real fast. Not only was I led to a saving relationship with Jesus, God drew my agnostic dad to Himself and he began a relationship with Jesus thirteen days before he passed into eternity. I am so thankful that God put me in the path of solid, Bible preaching men. I’m so glad I wasn’t led out of the LDS church into atheism, or to another false system. I was fully behind you spending a year on the evangelical church. I won’t go too in depth but I think you nailed it on the head when you said the LDS does “church” right. I enjoy my pastor’s teaching, but find myself missing the LDS’ church “model”.
Personal Reflections
Hopefully that makes sense. (I wish the Christian church would address modesty! That’s one thing I am thankful to the LDS church for.)
Thank you so much for answering God’s call. I pray that Heart of the Matter is able to broadcast on TV20 again soon. Your show being on local TV was instrumental in us being saved.
Closing Wishes
With love for you and your family–
Patty
