Mormonism and Biblical Christianity

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This is Heart of the Matter, where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity, face to face.

Show 36 366
November 5th 2013

And I’m your host Shawn McCraney. We praise the True and Living God for allowing us to participate in this ministry. May He be with you (and us) tonight.

Hey, I want to thank all of you for your support – in whatever way you are lead and willing to give it. This ministry is unique in that our primary objective is to teach and seek truth – no matter where or what it is. Being unrestricted by the demands of men, while liberating, is also quite taxing on remaining sustainable because sustainability is often based, in this world, on pleasing men – not ticking them off. So for those of you who have understood our purpose and approach, and have chosen to remain supportive, we really do thank you – for any and every sacrifice made.

Understanding Jesus' Role in Judgment

And with that, how about a moment from the Word?

One of the immeasurable beauties found in the true Gospel of Jesus Christ is the fact that true believers in true Jesus are:

• Known by Him.
• Forgiven by Him.
• Are mediated by Him.
• And are judged by Him.

He is well aware of those who are His and those who are not.

“Well,” you may ask, “what happens to those who have not believed on Him, or who have embraced another gospel or philosophy or promised way of entering heaven? Will Jesus judge them?” We know the Father has placed all judgment into the hands of the Son – after all, the Son paid for its vast sin, right? But we might wonder, what will Jesus judge us by if we have never really known or received Him? Will non believers in Christ be judged by the Law? What if they have never received the Law? Will they be judged by the rules of the philosophies they have embraced?

The Role of Moses in Judgment

In John 5:45 Jesus says something interesting to the Jews about judgment. He said:

“Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.” John 5:45

I take this to mean, in the case of the Jews who rejected Jesus, His Gospel, and the Grace it affords, that they will be judged by the Law of Moses, which they preferred to Him. I would also be so bold (and may be wrong) but I would think that those who have embraced the tenets of Islam to reach God, and those who have chosen to follow Mohammed to reach God, and those who have had nothing but their own consciences to follow will all be “accused” by the system they embraced – failures and all.

When it comes to the Latter-day Saints, my heart breaks in light of this idea for several reasons.

Grace versus Works

First, unlike what the LDS propose, there is no system of Grace and Works in true Christianity. It is one or the other. Romans 11:6 says it well:

“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

The LDS have tried to meld the two – making the Good News not so good after all. Now, of late they are publicly claiming that salvation is all “grace, grace, grace” and then exaltation is “works, works, works.” But this is an obfuscation of their own doctrine for even their doctrine of salvation is tied to receiving works like the LDS baptism.

Listen – either Jesus is the way and truth, and we will be judged and mediated by Him . . . or not. Simple as that. Taking all of this into account, the LDS are now guilty of having chosen to follow Joseph Smith and His views rather than Christ’s – forcing us to sadly suggest that they will therefore be judged by Smith’s teachings they believed and received. What makes this most heart-breaking is that having accepted (and therefore tried to live by) the Mormon doctrine of “grace and works” they can only be found wanting.

Why? Because the Law Mormonism promotes in their counterfeit Gospel will condemn them. Galatians 3:10 says it well:

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

From their baptismal covenants,

The Concept of Righteousness and Judgment

To the temple endowments, to the words of their living prophets and apostles, they are constantly guilty of failing to obey. It is these failures – because they have appealed to the law to justify themselves before God – that they will be found guilty. In simpler terms, if a person believes that they are righteous before God because they obey a law of Chastity, Tithing, or Sabbath-day, by God they had better live those laws . . . perfectly. Because it is those very laws they will be judged by.

When a person looks to Jesus Christ as the author AND finisher of their faith, as everything being completed by Him, and they trust upon His works or righteousness to reconcile them ENTIRELY before God there is no condemnation – because reconciliation is entirely based on His obedience to the Law and righteous life – and not their own.

And with that, let’s have a word of prayer.

Calvinism vs. Mormonism

We have been covering and comparing a summary of Jean Calvin’s “system of Christian doctrines of salvation” to those of Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon church. Calvin’s expansive explanation has been boiled down to the acronym T.U.L.I.P. which stands for:

• TOTAL DEPRAVITY (which we covered two weeks ago)
• UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
• LIMITED ATONEMENT
• IRRESISTIBLE GRACE, and
• PERSEVERANCE of the SAINTS

So let’s talk about the Calvinist teaching summarized by the term “Unconditional Election” and then explore Mormonism view of the same.

Unconditional Election

The Apostle Paul clearly explained that “all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” With this being the case none of us deserve salvation as we have all chosen darkness over light – to some extent or another. This state hearkens back to the first premise of Five Point Calvinism – Total Depravity. With human beings being incapable of choosing God on their own, the whole of us, says Calvin, are totally depraved, meaning we will choose our will over His. And in this state of depravity we all have sinned.

Calvin paradoxically taught that God “loves all of his creations” and desires that all “might be saved,” (he had to teach this – it’s biblical) but for some reason in Calvin’s mind, this God of love determined that most would not be redeemed. However, in order to “save some” (and again, according to scripture, that number would be few) God, being sovereign, elected “a group” of us reprobates to salvation, by His own good will and pleasure and well before any of us were even physical realities.

In electing some, God also chose, of His own good will and pleasure, to place the remainder in hell (and/or the lake of fire) where they will burn forever and ever and ever. Now, just in case those who have been elected by God start to think they were elected to salvation because they somehow earned it, the Westminster Confession clearly explains that the elect are chosen, not for any “act or goodness” present in themselves but solely because it was God’s will.

God's Sovereignty in Predestination

Calvin suggests that God saving some is a tremendous example of His mercy – since we all deserved hell-fire to begin with. If we sort of work it backward, NOT one of us deserves God’s love and mercy (which I agree is true) but to show His great mercy and love, He decided to save some of us reprobates while leaving the rest of us to become eternal kindling for the fires of the lake. This perspective teaches that the unsaved reprobates are unconditionally damned to hell for eternity while the “unconditionally elected” (our second point tonight) have been the “elect” from the beginning to life.

Another way this point is presented is that the elect have been predestined to salvation while the damned have been predestined to destruction. Now the basis for this perspective – in fact the basis for all five points of Calvinism – lie securely planted in the fact that God is sovereign. If you want to understand Calvinism it is vital to first come to terms with His Sovereignty – or the teaching that His will is always done to the exclusion of anything men and woman do or say or think or believe. In the doctrine of predestination, Five Point Calvinism affirms God’s Sovereignty and states that it is His perfect will (unaffected or moved by any deeds of humankind) which decides that He will save some and that the rest will burn eternally.

The fact that God predestines some to eternal life and others…

The Critique of Double Predestination

To eternal death is known as “Double Predestination.”

(beat – smile – long beat . . . )

Bahahahahahahahaha. I mean, I have never heard a bigger pile of garbage in all of my life. In terms of ridiculousness it runs right up alongside Joseph Smith’s King Follet Sermon that tells us God was once a man. (Okay, okay. I’ll remain professional so as to try and impress – through my genteel articulation – how right I am).

With double predestination souring the palate of many thinking Five Point Calvinists today there tends to be a massaging of this stance which has allowed another less heinous view to come into play which says: Something to the effect that all of Man’s choices are God-driven. But the depraved choose not to accept these directives from on high and therefore prove (or demonstrate) why they merit hell. That’s getting a little better. Nevertheless, in his explanation of Unconditional Election, RC Sproul, a modern Five Point Calvinist scholar said the following:

(now listen closely to the word choice in this quote)

“Our final destination, heaven or hell, is decided by God, not only before we get here, but before we are even born. It teaches that our ultimate destiny is in the hands of God. Another way of saying it is this: From all eternity, before we ever live, God decided to save some members of the human race and to let the rest of the human race perish. God made a choice—he chose some individuals to be saved unto everlasting blessedness in heaven and others he chose to pass over, to allow them to follow the consequences of their sins into eternal torment in hell.” (R. C. Sproul, Chosen by God: Know God’s Perfect Plan for His Glory and His Children (Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House, 1986), 22, 26.

Perspectives on Five Point Calvinism

What has always intrigued me is the mindset of those who tend to embrace and LOVE Five Point Calvinism. First of all, the people who love it are never the ones who are on the eternal burning end of the doctrine – it's always the elect. That’s kind of funny isn’t it? Then, in light of the command to love, I cannot for the life of me understand anyone who is comfortable with the notion that while they have been chosen, trillions of other people are going to suffer eternally, burning alive in the flames of the second death, by no choice of their own.

What seems to truly comfort those who maintain the Five Point mindset is the fact that since God has elected them, their ability to muck up His election is virtually impossible – which ends up gives them this sort of smug ability to rest in Him. From a biblical point of view I understand this perspective. But what comes attached to it is frankly unconscionable.

These unconscionable tenets attached to eternal security were unconscionable to Joseph Smith too. See, there is no free will in Five Point Calvinism. God not only manages everything and has managed everything from the beginning, He micro-manages every last detail in the scope of the great all. Being Sovereign, He made me do this (hand up) . . . and He made me do that (hands wide) . . . His is a master of puppets, pulling all the strings and forcing His will upon a human race of choiceless drones.

The Calvinistic View on Predestination

To the Calvinist His management is by and through cut and dry, black and white decisions that end up placing most human beings in the lake of fire. The result, in their mind, is that all of us, (before we ever drew a single breath) are either saved or damned – there is no in-between. We’ll Joseph Smith’s Juniors father (and I believe his paternal grandfather as well) were not fond of this idiotic take on a loving God and how He works to redeem Man. Can we blame them?

In their opinion God, being sovereign and love, would work His ways to somehow bring all of his creations to heaven. We would call this universalism today, which properly defined, means all roads lead to heaven, Jesus is not the only way, and traditionally it means there is no hell or afterlife suffering. From the early writings of Joseph Smith it seems he was more of an Arminianist than a universalist or a Calvinist.

Arminians downplay the Sovereignty of God (to some extent) and make free will a major factor in the salvation of Man – as well.

Understanding Perspectives on Salvation

as their own works of righteousness. Theologians call the Arminianist view of salvation “synergistic” – meaning it is a work of God working with the free will of Man to bring about salvation. Calvinism would therefore be seen as monergistic, meaning all decisions are from a single direction – from God to Man, and that man has no say or play in the results.

Instead of presenting a viable, biblical (let me say that again . . . instead of presenting a viable BIBLICAL) answer to Calvin’s Five Points, Smith, as he was wont to do, came up with explanations straight out of his own imagination. From them he was able to appeal to some of the biblical notions of a sovereign God, while retaining His justice, mercy, and love. Additionally, he was able to make his father and grandfather happy by giving everyone a chance to experience some sort of redemption, all the while honoring the Arminiast constructs of human free will and the command to do good works to ensure salvation.

Smith was able to get this idea off the ground by introducing the Hellenist thought (or the Swedenborgian idea) that we all came from a pre-mortal existence. See, if Man existed (before coming to this earth) and acting as free agents was able to establish ourselves as either Good, lukewarm, or evil, a fair but sovereign God could then “foreordain” each of us to certain capacities relative to our own free will choices before ever coming to earth.

The Concept of Pre-Mortal Existence

Now, the idea is wholly without biblical merit – in fact, Jesus actually teaches against the thought – but it does work to solve a number of these unconscionable Calvinistic traditions. With Smith’s plan, God would use the free will choices of all (made in his fictional pre-existence) to then rule and reign as a “Sovereign loving manager,” over the human race, if you will.

But Smith took the Arminianist constructs farther. Just because someone was foreordained in the pre-mortal existence does NOT mean they are forced to live up to or comply with what they earned in their pre-mortal life. Free will still reigns. It is in this light that the LDS are fond of saying: “Many are called but few are chosen.” What they mean by this is many people were called to do great things from the pre-mortal existence, but few live up to the calling – due to sin, self-will, blindness, Satan, whatever.

Smith, in my estimation, hated restrictions, and leaned far closer to the Arminiast view of Salvation because it appeals so plainly to freedom of the human will, a concept anathematic to five Point Calvinists. Additionally, Smith rejected the idea that God would ever predestine anyone to eternal hell, but maintained that Man has the ability to alter and change His course by and through His own choices, thus ignoring Five Point Calvinism’s first premise of Total Depravity.

LDS Perspective on Salvation

Said an LDS prophet: “Every soul coming into this world came here with the promise that through obedience he would receive the blessings of salvation. No person was foreordained or appointed to sin or to perform a mission of evil. No person is ever predestined to salvation or damnation. Every person has free agency. Cain was promised by the Lord that if he would do well, he would be accepted. Judas had his agency and acted upon it; no pressure was brought to bear on him to cause him to betray the Lord, but he was led by Lucifer. If men were appointed to sin and betray their brethren, then justice could not demand that they be punished for sin and betrayal when they are guilty.” (Joseph Fielding Smith)

LDS founder Joseph Smith tried to pour water on Five Point Calvinism in and through his Book of Mormon. Yes, the work does contain some references to total depravity and the like, but in the end, the book was primarily an Arminianist response to the ugly Chimera Calvinism introduced into the world at the time of the Reformation. Unfortunately, from the Book of Mormon myth, Smith continued to step outside the pale of Biblical supports to refute Calvin’s ideas, when, if he had taken the time, and would have reigned in his proud imagination, he could have torn the thing apart from an authentic text instead of through personally compiled pseudopigrapha.

1. In the face of Calvin’s Five Points and Arminianist Free Will, is there a common ground of biblical reason to be had?

2. Is it possible, using only the Bible, to prove that
   • God is wholly and completely sovereign,
   • that Jesus is the only way,

The Mystery of God's Election and Human Free Will

• that God does elect some to life and others to death
• while allowing the free will of humans to exist in the company of His unending and undying love?

Is it possible for a loving God to allow for a hell of darkness and pain, for a lake of fire to exist? Is it possible for wholly depraved humankind to be unconditionally elected (by holy) God to life? Yes, it is – to all of it. And it all ONLY happens in and through His Son.

More on this next week. Let's open up the phone lines: (801)

While the operators are clearing your calls, please consider the following:

T.U.L.I.P.

TOTAL DEPRAVITY
UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
LIMITED ATONEMENT
IRRESISTIBLE GRACE
PERSEVERANCE of the SAINTS

Viewer Feedback and Inquiries

FROM DALE M in North Reading MASS
I've been watching the temple videos and you asked for impressions of the video from LDS and non LDS. I am not LDS and to me it's like a Disney World exhibit. It's really so sad that people think this is real. And scary. God Bless you Shawn. You and your ministry rock!

RESPONSE

Hi Sean-
The best way to gauge the accuracy of anyone's faith as a Christian faith is their adherence to the Nicene Creed. Arguments have been made over many centuries dating to the time of Christ over who is and who is not a Christian. There have been many sects with views step in step with Mormonism that were condemned in the exclusively Catholic era of Christianity. See groups such as the Arians and Donatists – the former of whom believed Christ was a creation, and the latter of whom thought they could earn their way to heaven, a viewpoint which Catholics condemned at the time and have almost always condemned.

Thanks for your time,
Richard

Hi Shawn-
Thank you for all that you have done and continue to do in this Ministry. I have been a fan and praying for "Heart of the Matter" since you began back in 2006. I must say that your show from May 25th, 2010, Episode 217: Free Masonry, makes you seem "Prophetic". More "Prophetic" than any of the LDS prophets from Jo Smith through Thom/Tom Monson.

I do have a question for you…..and I ask you because I know that you are a man who loves, trusts, respects and teaches from the Bible. Who is Jesus referring to when he tells us to "Love our neighbor?" Who is my neighbor? There are scriptures being used to support the view that the "unborn child" is our neighbor. Are there any scriptures to denounce this belief? Please respond via email…..supporting your response with Scripture.

Thank you~
Blessings~

Linda B

RESPONSE

Shawn,
I have spent the last couple hours watching your interviews and we are so brothers from other mothers. Your story is mine almost word for word. We even have the same build/look a bit. I see you struggled with weight. I am there. I want what you talked about in the last 5 minutes of the first video. How do I give up the fight and let him take over? Surrender isn’t what men do. I have been out for 6 years and yet I can't seem to release. I know everything in my life is being sabotaged through the head games I play. I have had some of my lowest lows over the past 4-6 years. I live in a bit of a bubble due to success in Network Marketing and am estranged from most of my family due to my separation from the church as well as my new 6-year-old business. I am sure their opinion is that between taking a self-awareness course and network marketing, I have opened myself up to chasing money/allowing false doctrine to dissuade me, etc. The truth is that I gave it 37 years and was so freaking empty. I have a word picture I use to describe it. I was this incredible Battleship that is so powerful and yet when you get close you see that it's in a harbor with no opening to the ocean. As you approach the ship, you start to notice that the paint looks faded and as you get even closer you see that it’s just a rusted out façade with paint haphazardly slopped all over it. The engines have been removed and the inside has been completely gutted. I have watched my siblings tear themselves apart due to their sin and the lack of Mormon repentance process. They are all killing themselves in their own ways. Drugs, obesity, depression… Can I come see you? I am in Eagle Idaho outside of Boise.

Adam Junior
801-842-9780

RESPONSE

Thoughts on Tattoos

Thank you, Brandon and Heather, for your comment and for watching the show. I'm glad to know you enjoy it and hope you get to see another one soon.

Yes, the cross on my hand is indeed a tattoo. I did think long and hard about getting it. The decision was personal and meaningful to me. It's a symbol of my faith and a constant reminder of what I believe.

Tattoos and The Bible

Regarding what the Bible says about tattoos, there are varied interpretations. Some people might point to Leviticus 19:28, which states, "Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord." This was a command given to the Israelites during a specific historical context.

Personal Interpretations

Others might view tattoos as a form of personal expression that can honor God. It's important to consider the intention and personal conviction behind getting a tattoo. As with any decision, seeking guidance through prayer and personal reflection is important.

Thank you again for reaching out, and I appreciate your interest in both the show and my tattoo!