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Luke 16.24-end
March 8th 2020
Meat
Alright, so we left off last week with the rich man being in sheol and the poor man being in Abraham’s bosom. We talked all about this. Let’s read the rest of the story.
24 And he (the rich man) cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Alright back to verse
24 And he (the rich man) cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
This is a story of a flip around – a story of contrasts. In life the rich man could have fed the poor man; in life the rich man was in luxury and comfort, and in life the poor man laid at the rich man’s gate (a place of inferiority compared to where the rich man lived) but here, in death, the rich man (who we notice still has consciousness) is in the inferior place (he was looking up to Lazarus) who was in comfort (while the rich man was in misery) and the rich man was now begging for Lazarus to give him a drop of water.
What a contrast!
Like the parable of the unjust steward we have to wonder if there are holes in the story that are not mentioned.
I mean, is this the result for simply living sumptuously and the result of simply living in poverty – on is afterlife suffering and one is afterlife luxury or comfort.
This could not be – based on these factors alone. Implicit to the story behind each character must be that (and I say this relative to the content of other passages in the Word)
The rich man loved his riches more than anything else in life –
That they were his priority, not the care of others (as evidenced by the contents of this tale)
And that he therefore was a slave to mammon and not to God.
Conversely, we must admit that the poor man, base on other passages of scripture:
Must have been a man of faith
Must have been a bondservant to God first
And as a result of these things suffered in the world
I cannot just teach the parable as it stands as reason for one going to paradise and one going to prison any more than the scripture as a whole does.
So, we know that Jesus is just telling the end story of the two, not the whole story, and that the end story represents the facts of the whole story, which Jesus did not include.
Bottom line, however, we have a man who lived in purple and linen and sumptuousness in sheol and the beggar Lazarus in paradise.
The fact that Jesus has them seeing each other in these places seems to be a convenience of the parable rather than a reality but some literalists would ardently oppose this view. Anyway
24 And the rich man cried and said, “Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
Interestingly the rich man, who was certainly a Jew, still considered Abraham his father and even though he was in misery he was respectful enough to address him as such.
Additionally, the Jewish rabbinical writings suggest that departed spirits would know and talk with each other and it appears that Jesus conforms the story to that prevailing opinion.
Is this depiction the way things are in the afterlife – especially for them then? Who can say. But it seems to me that Jesus was adapting the story to the common beliefs of the day rather than teaching about the realities of the afterlife environment.
Could be wrong on this admittedly.
All we know from Jesus words was the destination of these two men and what they were experiencing there.
And so, the rich man cries out, “Have mercy on me.” And the mercy he requests was not to be released, not for God to forgive him, not to be admitted into Abrahams care – but to instead have his thirst quenched.
To me this appears – and I emphasize this word, appears – it appears that the rich man:
Knew he deserved his location.
Did not want to repent of why he was there
Did not want to go to Abrahams bosom
But just wanted his discomfort met with a merciful touch of water
And who does the man request to bring him the water – none other than Lazarus.
The point of the parable, at least in this portion is to illustrate that even the poorest souls on earth who have God will ultimately be in comforts and the most comforted souls on earth, without him, will not.
The favor the rich man begged was the smallest of favors to ask – just dip the tip of your finger and cool my tongue. Not bring me a pitcher of water – just the smallest of relief. “Because,” he says, “I am tormented. I am in anguish in this flame.”
And this is one of the reasons why so many people associate hades/sheol with fire and flame – this very parable or story.
Mark 9:43-44 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
These words are clearly borrowed by the Lord from Isaiah 66:24.
In describing the great prosperity of the kingdom of the Messiah, Isaiah says, that the people of God shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of men who have transgressed against God. Their enemies Shall be overcome. They shall be slain. The people of God shall triumph.
The figure is taken from heaps of the dead slain in battle; and the prophet says, that the number shall be so great, that their worm–the worm feeding on the dead–shall not die, shall live long–as long as there are carcasses to be devoured; and that the fire which was used to burn the bodies of the dead shall continue on a long time and shall not be extinguished till they are consumed.
The figure, therefore, describes great misery, and certain and terrible destruction.
In these verses it is applied to the state beyond the grave and is intended to describe that the destruction of the wicked will be awful, wide-spread, and eternal.
But it does not mean that there will be any real worms in hell or material fire.
Nor does it clearly tell us what is meant by these terms when applied to the departed who die in sin.
It could have innumerable applications and to focus on the certainty of a literal one is not sound in my estimation.
The imagery for hell (sheol) here is an image that is dreadful. And I must add it was applied to them/then in that age.
And we know that Gehenna, in the Valley of Hinnom, was filled with putrefaction and filthy at the end of that age, with maggots eating away through the bodies tossed there amidst the flames that never went out, and so there could be something to this imagery as well.
(verse 25)
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
The rich man called Abraham Father, Abraham called the rich man son – still a descendent, still a Jew, but one receiving what was due.
To me this phrasing would have added to the sorrow being felt by the rich man. And speaking of adding to the heat and sorrow of the situation Jesus has Abraham use a word that is a crusher – I think – especially in the spectrum of the eternities . . . “REMEMBER”
Apparently, at least from the very words Jesus uses in the tale, we are able to remember the elements of our lives in the afterlife.
REMEMBER –
I am hoping that the Good Lord will strip from the memory of those who are his the evil that we have done. I get to entertain this hope because we have the poor man saying nothing here.
Unfortunately, the Lord does have the rich man in hades remembering things about his former life, and perhaps that is what lends to the torments he is experiencing. So Abraham says to him:
Son, remember that in your lifetime you receivedst your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented
Interestingly enough, Jesus has Abraham call the things that the rich man received GOOD – and the things that the poor man received as EVIL or bad.
This tells us that even in the heavens that nice things, comforts and wealth are considered Good things to have had when on earth, and that sores and poverty and social contempt were considered bad and evil.
So, we know from this that in and of themselves wealth and comforts and riches cannot be considered bad or evil – but of course it is what we do with them relative to our hearts for God and Man.
Like Jesus said, we will always have the poor with us – and so it is incumbent on those blessed with good things to assist those without.
And then after reminding the rich man of his earthly status he seems to say:
But now how things have changed.
The life of Lazarus, after all things said and done, was one of good things and the life of the rich man one of bad!
So the ultimate point is how much better is poverty and the friendship of God in life (and beyond) to wealth and the absence of God in life (and beyond).
And this teaching is all over the words of Jesus in the Gospels with treasures in heaven instead of on earth, etc etc.
(verse 26)
26 And beside all this, (Abraham adds) between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
The word translated gulf means chasm, or a “broad, yawning space” between two elevated objects.
This depiction is tied to paradise and prison – that there was a gulf between the two.
Abraham calls it a Great gulf fixed – and some suggest that this means it will NEVER be bridged.
Perhaps in that day, among the Jews, this was true. But when Revelation says that hell would be cast into the Lake of Fire, it seems to me that the fixed gulf ended.
Perhaps there is a barrier that exists in the New Jerusalem, like a mote of some sort that does not enable access to the throne of God but I speak in jest because the gates on the N/E/S/W of the city are open day and night.
This makes my estimation of the barrier the light of God, his brilliance, His fire, and those resurrected bodies of the unjust cannot bear it – so to me that it what keeps them from Him.
Nevertheless in that age, when all the departed Jews died and went to sheol – Paradise or prison, there was a fixed gulf between the two.
Notice that Abraham says that the gulf made it so that
they (in paradise) which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they (those in prison) pass to us, that would come from thence.
Meaning, there was no mingling between the two – the faithful and the unfaithful. The fixed gulf will not allow it.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
In the reality that he was not going to get any water from the tip of Lazarus’s finger, the rich man, in a act of love from beyond the grave for his brothers, makes the request for Lazarus to go to his fathers house and testify to his five brothers “LESS they ALSO come to this place of torment.”
I find this addition really remarkable. That while in torment the rich man expresses some selfless love for his brothers who apparently were in jeopardy of going to the same place at death – and he knew it – so he makes a request of Father Abraham to send Lazarus to testify to them of what was coming their way.
He did not ask that he go to them – so again, it appears that he was fully aware of his status and condition.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Abrahams response (of course from Jesus mouths ) says, well, a mouthful:
They have Moses (meaning the first five books of the Bible called the Pentateuch) and the Prophets (meaning the rest of the Tanakh) to consult and understand what was required of them as Jews to escape the prison and to go to paradise – which was all that the law and the prophets demanded.
Those things were theirs for 1500 years. They had rabbis and synagogues, and all that was necessary to keep them from that state. But the rich man knew that this was not going to fly with his brothers.
They were not ones to take or interpret the import of those messages to heart. And so the rich man was hoping for something more exciting to happen in his brothers lives – like a sign, like a visit from a ghost. (Verse 30)
30 And he (the rich man said), Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
The rich man here reveals that the reason that he was in prison was that he had not repented.
He had not turned his mind from the ways of the world and looked to the Law and the Prophets, perhaps even to the Messiah that was promised to Him via the law and the prophets.
And neither had his brothers. Knowing that repentance was required for anuy and all to escape his condition, he sought to whatever would shake his brothers from their lazy or rebellious state – if Abraham would send one from the dead to them! That would work!
Abraham clears this assumption up right away, saying:
31 If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
We learn so much from this parable, if we take what is actually said in it and do not impute our own wishes upon it.
First, we see from the mouth of Jesus that the souls of human beings do not die with their bodies. We go on. There is an afterlife, where we appear to retain our personalities and even mindsets that walked on earth.
We also learn that even in that day and age the soul is conscious after death, that it does not sleep as Ellen G White suggested till the morning of the resurrection. But we, even then, they, went from this state of consciousness to another state of consciousness.
That even in that day, when the covered place still reigned over the state of departed Man, the righteous went to a place of comfort and joy and the wicked were consigned at once to a place of misery (which again, has been overcome by Jesus today).
That wealth and luxury of this world does not pass with us after death, nor does poverty and pain – only the material affectations of them, pride or humility.
That while people on this earth without God appear to really live that such living ends and those who choose to have an abiding relationship with God here, dying to self and the world daily, really live there.
That the wise man builds his or her house upon the Rock aiming at an inheritance that cannot be corrupted.
That God gives all people in this age of the Spirit, and the witnesses of His word, sufficient choices in our walk toward death.
He has sent his Word, his servants, the prophets, his Son, the apostles, the Testament and most importantly, His spirit to entreat and invite all people to turn and receive what He has to offer.
And finally, if these things will not reach into the hearts of people nothing will.
Everyone wants a sign, a vision, a visit from a relative telling us that there is no need for faith – all we have to do is remember the visitation and we will follow.
But from the words Jesus has Abraham say, I am not so sure it works that way.
Faith by the Spirit in hearing the Word is the most powerful source of truth on earth, and angels and the rest, in the end, do not seem to carry the same weight.
So, appeals to ghosts and apparitions and signs and wonders are subpar to what God has given the World – His Son and His Spirit – look and listen to them through the word – and live.
And so we are now entering chapter 17 – let’s read at verse 1-6.
Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
Okay back to verse 1
Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
He was speaking to his disciples in chapter 16 and he continues to speak to them here.
The line he opens with here in intriguing – “It is impossible BUT that offenses will come.”
They are going to be here in this world. Jesus says, its impossible to stop them.
Offenses appear to refer to sin, evil, selfishness, and anything else that is an offence to God and others.
In fact, in Matthew’s account Jesus says,
“It must needs be that offenses come,” meaning that such is the depravity of man, that there will be always some attempting to make others sin; some men of wickedness endeavoring to lead others astray, and even rejoicing when they have succeeded in causing them to fall.
This is the case and standard of this world – and they are going to happen.
But then Jesus adds: “Woe to that man by whom the offence cometh.”
And again we have a direct scriptural example of freewill existing in the hearts and minds of human beings – either that, or God causes men to sin and do evil and then punishes them for it – which is the philosophy of some brothers out there.
It is one thing to sin and privately deal with issues – it is an entirely different matter when people strive to draw others into sin and evil. Jesus says, “Woe to them.”
And then he adds:
2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Now, again, I have no idea why Luke has Jesus say these things which seem so out of the blue, but this doesn’t make what he says less true – just more disjointed.
In Matthews account he called some children unto him and taught and this was the context of him saying this – but here we have no little ones called or even referred to in the chapter before.
All we can do is look at Matthew and suggest that that is the context or that Jesus just wanted his audience to know that there are brutal consequences for those who harm little children in any manner and do not repent.
Then speaking of harm and sin and bad being done to others, Luke has Jesus now say:
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
If someone does something against us, here it reads, trespass against thee, “rebuke him.”
The word rebuke means to correct him by explaining his fault to him and in going to him seeking to understand why the insult or crime.
In this we acquaint our attacker with the facts over which at times he or she may never even understand that there was a crime done.
Go to them and frankly, gently, state your feelings. Jesus adds the words,
“And IF he repents forgive him.”
That’s a big statement folks that we have to address because it leads us to the question: Are we to only forgive those who repent for their crimes against us?
To just round this out, Jesus adds (which was a response to Peter’s question in Matthew)
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
So again, twice here, to the Jews by the way, Jesus predicates endless forgiveness on repentance of the offending party.
I consulted a number of Bible commentators on this and the vast majority concluded that Christians do NOT forgive unless the person who has offended them repents – which means changes their minds (to some) and changes their ways) to others (and then changes both to even more.
Some of them suggest that the best way to love offenders is to demand that they make account for their crimes against us and repent for them because by doing this we bring them into reconciliation with ourselves and with God.
The conversation must begin with the word forgive and what it means.
The Greek word translated forgive is “af ee-amee and it is an intensitve form of eimei which means, “to go,” “to send forth” and or “to follow.”
Taking the literal meaning of this word, then I think it is safe to say that there is no need to forgive others who have not repented because it would be unwise to follow or send forth oneself to them who have sinned and are not sorry for it.
In this approach, this literal physical sense I suggest that a person does not forgive the unrepentant (does not follow them or go forth to them) if they remain unrepentant for their crimes.
HOWEVER . . . this does not speak to the command to love them, to do good to them, and to, from the heart, forgive them.
That is another approach. A man molests you and does not repent. While it is incumbent of Christians to forgive all people all the time, in the physical application of forgiveness it is NOT recommended that a person follow after the unrepentant – but in their heart, to give them and all the hard feelings and animus, up to God.
To be sure, God forgives the repentant, those who have remorse and a change of mind for their crimes.
Forgiveness is part of justification. In pardoning sin, God absolves the sinner from the condemnation of the law, and does this on account of the work of Christ – there is no continued guilt on the soul as they have been forgiven by God.
All sins are forgiven freely (Acts 5:31; 13:38; 1st John 1:6-9) which is the prerogative of God himself. Because He forgives our sins we too are challenged to forgive the sins of others – but I maintain that this forgiveness is meted out in two ways – one is physical and of this world and the other is from the heart.
If a person is unrepentant, there is no requirement to physically forgive them with our presence and fellowship.
But all Christians are to forgive from the heart, meaning we do not hold animus even if they refuse to repent themselves.
Jesus said in Matthew 6:14-15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
I am convinced this speaks to forgiveness from the heart, and not always in the physical sense.
We remember another set of passages that offset us a bit. Its when Jesus said in Luke 6:27-31
27 I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
We recall Matthew 18:35 where Jesus says
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
In 1st Thessalonians 3:12 Paul wrote:
And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
Then in 1st Thessalonians 5:14-15 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
Titus 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
The Lord’s prayer
Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
And on this point we will end for today.
Questions/Comments
Prayer
