John 8.21
Milk
March 9th 2014
Okay. We are in John chapter 8 beginning at verse 12-13.
Last week we launched off into a discussion based off Jesus, who was standing in the temple, saying:
“I am the light of the World.”
We’ll continue on through to verse 30 this morning but first we have our prayer being offered by ______________ and the sermonette being given by . . ?????
Okay, we remember from last week, Jesus is there in the temple and says (in verse 12)
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
Alright, referring to His pre-incarnate state made flesh Jesus says plainly:
12 “I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
(verse 13)
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
Of course we learned from John 5:31 that the law required two witnesses to be present in courts of law but apparently, at this time in history, they were using the two or more person witness plan as the measurement of all claims and not just those that were criminal.
So the Pharisees that were present let Jesus know that they did not consider His assertion of being “the light of the world” true because He was witnessing of Himself. Jesus responds and what I think is interesting validates His witness, saying:
14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
In common life, in courts, and in mere human transactions, it was true that a man ought not to give evidence in his own case, yet in this instance, Jesus seems to say that “though I obviously bear witness of myself” my witness is true.
In other words, what I am saying may not fit your expectations of a legal witness but it doesn’t change the validity of my testimony in the least.
He validates this by saying:
“For I know where I came (from), and whither I (am) going.”
Here we are given another distinguishing characteristic of Jesus from the rest of Human Kind – He knew where He came from and who sent Him.
I don’t think any other human being can honestly say this – first, because all of us came – as it were – from the contributing components of our parents, with the breath of life at some point in time of this conception giving us being.
Only Jesus came from above – and knew His origins.
And knowing His origins He also knew His purpose and mission.
Now, a clarification on this – which ties into a concept we have been discussing of late.
Hebrews 13:8 says plainly:
“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
Upon hearing this it is easy to think and TEACH that Jesus was the same eternally.
That He – Jesus Christ – existed from the foundations of the world with the Father AS (listen now) Jesus Christ.
We KNOW that the Word – a mysterious composition of light, spirit, love, and fire – has been from the beginning – but when we read this passage in Hebrews 13:8 we tend to think it means Jesus Christ was present and existing there.
Not so.
We can say this for a number of reasons.
First, IF Jesus Christ has been “the same yesterday, today and forever” then He had to have been flesh from the foundation of the world.
If He was not flesh from the foundation of the world, and then became flesh, He was NOT the same “today, yesterday and forever.” Get it?
Additionally, we know that Jesus Christ did not become Jesus Christ (or was not named Yeshua) until He took on flesh – which was the beginning point of Jesus Christ’s (not the Word’s, but Jesus Christ’s) existence.
From these things we can then agree with Hebrews 13:8 as saying that the physical being Jesus Christ, born of a woman, died on a cross, and was raised on the third day is the same “yesterday, today and forever” . . . and that the passage is speaking of God incarnate only because Jesus Christ did not exist (as a man) until the incarnation.
Having become Man or flesh, we can rest assured (and now say) that He, “Jesus the Messiah, is the same today, and yesterday and forever.”
One of the arguments the LDS use to defend their teaching that there is a pre-mortal existence for all human beings is a logic that says:
“Something does not begin but then continue on forever and ever. If there is an eternity waiting for all of us going outward or forward, it is illogical to believe that our existence did not extend forever backward.”
This verse, if we allow ourselves to read it properly, shuts the door on this argument as it says that Jesus Christ (who as God in the flesh), began at birth (or from a beginning) but is now the same “ yesterday, today and forever.”
Here in the temple, clothed in flesh, Jesus (Christ, as it were) informs those who are listening to Him that while they rejected His witness of being “the Light of the World,” His witness was true none-the-less – because He knew where He came from.
They were looking at Him in flesh. They knew He was from Galilee and a carpenter’s Son. But He is telling them He came from and was sent from a place of which they were entirely ignorant.
“For I know whence I came from and where I am going.”
The only Man in flesh and blood who could ever say this honestly was there in the temple saying it. This is a preamble to Him saying He was the I am (which we’ll read about in another 45 verses or so.
Remember, Jesus is constantly telling the Jews that He did not come of himself or to do His own will. We’ve already read in John 6:38 where He says:
“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”
This was a plain revelation of where He came from and whose will He came to do – none of it was by Him or of His own will.
While on earth He ALWAYS speaks of being sent by the Father and doing the will of the Father. The majority of these verses of Him being sent and doing the will of Him who sent Him are found in the Gospel of John.
Back in chapter five verse thirty we read Jesus say:
“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”
In the incarnation of God, when God became “with us,” we have something absolutely mysterious – though men have tried to make it make sense.
The mystery I am speaking of is that while Jesus walked the earth He was able to reveal and present and speak for the Father (the invisible God) for a few key reasons:
First, He came and was sent by the invisible God and so He came “as a witness of those things which he had seen and known.”
Recall what Jesus said in John 3:
John 3:31-32 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
That, in and of itself, is mysterious. But there’s more when it comes to Jesus relationship with the Father.
We also know that the fullness of God dwelled in Jesus while He was on earth.
This is a great mystery.
But still Colossians 2:9 says it plainly:
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
Going back to last week, we know then that the fullness of God could, from what scripture says, be described as Spirit, consuming fire, Agape Love, and Light.
Finally, we know that Jesus purpose for being sent was to reveal the Father, who none of us have seen or can see.
John wrote posthumously of Christ, saying in John 1:18:
“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
Speaking of Christ Paul wrote in 1st Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.
John 1:14 says “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
So since Jesus came from heaven, witnessed the Father, was sent by the Father, knew the Father’s will and only did the Father’s will, He felt pretty sure (to put it mildly) that His witness was trustworthy.
Jesus adds (remember the context):
15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Here they were looking at Him – what did they see?
Nothing impressive (despite some of the artistic renditions of Jesus sold in Christian book stores).
Nope, they saw (with their eyes and their hearts) a man that offered nothing that others would envy (according to Isaiah) and they, as Jesus puts it, “judged after the flesh.”
Which in all probability contributed to the spiritual blindness they already naturally possessed.
We are made this way, in our flesh by the way – to look at each other “after the flesh.” In fact, it’s a fact supported in the Bible.
All the way back in 1st Samual we have an interesting and rather applicable story going on.
The prophet Samuel was taking his time to find a replacement King for Saul.
In chapter 16 the Lord says to Samuel (the prophet)
1 How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons.
2 And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the LORD said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the LORD.
3 And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will shew thee what thou shalt do: and thou shalt anoint unto me him whom I name unto thee.
16:4 And Samuel did that which the LORD spake, and came to Bethlehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said, Comest thou peaceably?
5 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice.
6 And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD’S anointed is before him.
7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
Now, while it is all together natural for men and women to look upon the appearance of others and to judge.
I would qualify this by saying that as believers we have to learn to not see things with natural eyes.
1st Corinthians 2:14 says:
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
We recall that Jesus has already said in chapter 7:
“Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”
The word judge is best defined as condemn or relegate to inferior especially for the Kingdom of God.
So Jesus tells these guys that while they are looking on Him they judge by appearance (and are unable to discern the eternal glory present within Him) but that He “judges no man.”
Where the spirit of the day was for religious leaders to judge the heck out of everybody – especially off appearances – Jesus, according to John 3:17, did not come to judge the world but to save it.
So far from our study of John we know that Jesus will judge all things. In fact John 5:22 says:
“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.”
But we are talking about at a later date and time – 70 AD for the Jews and upon death for the rest of us, receiving (at His hand) entrance into His rest or a place in hell).
But while walking on the earth in His mission to teach and save it, He judges no man.
He adds:
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
They had accused Him of testifying of Himself, and by the law His witness is not valid.
So He tells them that He judges no man (while on that present mission) but adds,
“Yet, if I do, my judgment is true!” (or reliable). WHY would His judgment be true? Relative to the “law of witness,” He explains, saying:
“For I am NOT alone, but I and the Father that sent me,” or, in a clearer way (other than the King James) He says
“Even if I do judge, my judgment is just; for I am not alone, but the Father who sent me is with me.”
Here we have yet another mystery – “While in human flesh the Father was with Him (or, another way) “The fullness of the Godhead dwelled within Him bodily.”
So throughout His earthly existence He had the Father and Holy Spirit fully accompanying His every move.
He walked and worked and spoke and moved by their complete and total companionship. They were inseperable (though He had taken on a tabernacle of flesh).
Of course we realize that the only point in time (and eternity) where He – the Word, the Son, the Man Jesus Christ – was NOT in the constant, full presence of the Father and Holy Spirit was on the cross when He cried out:
“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” There, due to our sin, He was abandoned for a time . . . and left alone to the darkest depths of despair.
(beat)
People today wonder if we worship or pray to Jesus.
As man Jesus prayed to the invisible God whom He revealed. He taught His disciples to pray to the Father.
But since becoming our intercessor, and mediator, and Savior who has wholly overcome the flesh out of love for the Father and Man, to pray to Jesus is to pray to God. To pray to the Father is to pray to God. To pray to the Holy Spirit is to pray to God.
One God.
“Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one LORD.”
We are monotheists who know God has revealed Himself through His Son, who reveals the Son by and through the testifying of His Holy Spirit.
Jesus adds (verse 17)
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Then to justify His saying, “I am the Light of the World,” He adds:
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
What Jesus does here is He introduces to them something that is going to end up inciting them to taking His life.
He says, “Yes, I have bore witness of myself (in saying that “I am the light of the world”) and,” He adds, “and the Father that sent . . . me bears witness of me.”
We know that the Father has bore witness of Him at His water baptism (in Matthew 3:17) and then through the miracles that He performed.
I think we can also say that the Father bore witness of Him by and through the fulfillment of prophesy from the Old Testament.
But, as we have noted in the past, the Jews did not read the word Father assigned to God throughout the entire Old Testament. The major exception to this is Isaiah 9:6 that says:
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
So to the faithful Jew, calling God their Father (capital F) was unheard of – He was to them Jehovah (a name they did not speak), the Lord God.
So for Jesus to refer to Him as “His Father” was, as far as I can tell, a common or known practice in the Old Testament.
In response to this the Jews ask him (verse 19) “Where is thy Father?”
I am convinced they were mocking Him here, possibly looking about and saying, “Where’s your Father? Father, father, father, father, father?!!!”
I say this because Jesus has previously let them know that when He says “My Father,” he means God and they were aware He took this position. So I think they were messing with Him here.
And . . . Jesus answered, “Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.”
Passages like this really trouble me – you know ones where jesus says “If you have seen me you have seen the father,” or “if you had known me you would know the Father.”
Growing up LDS, of course has not helped the confusion as they are inclined to interpret passage like this in a very literal and humanistic manner.
“We’ll,” the missionaries will say, “I look an awful lot like my Dad – a chip off the old block, people would say. And if you knew me you would discover that I’m the splittin’ image of good old Dad. I think this is what Jesus is saying here – me and my pappy are really very much identical. To look at me is to see Him . . . .” etc. etc.
Of course, we can’t read it this way.
First of all, Jesus says (here) to the Jews “if you had known me you should have known my Father also.”
The Word known is used in the past tense so what Jesus is saying is: “Had you known God prior to my coming to you, you would also know (recognize, see, receive) me.”
In other words KNOWING Him would prove that they also KNEW the Father before Him.
But because they rejected Him it proves that they have never known the Father.
When Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father Jesus replied:
“Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
And the word for “seen” here is the same as perceived (not the Greek blepo for actually seen) (IOW) “had you perceived me Philip you would have perceived the Father.”
We have of late had a LOT of discussion about the make-up of the Father, Jesus incarnate and pre-creation, even the Holy Spirit.
Each of them are distinct in the person of God, as Theos, Logos, and Pneuma or Ruach of God.
But while distinct, I would suggest that they are indistinguishable from each other.
I mean, I am a mere man, full of sin, covered in flesh, and can anyone really distinguish between my body, my soul, and my spirit?
Applying this to an all-consuming fire of light and love and spirit manifested as theos, logos, and pneuma is an impossible task.
Which is why Jesus can clearly say that to know Him IS to know the Father – and distinctions of ontology are literally impossible for us.
So in describing God I would suggest we say . . . (beat) . . . God.
Father God
Jesus God
Holy Spirit God.
And let’s move on from there.
Based on the next verse it seems possible that Jesus rallied these men up against Him because John writes in (verse 21)
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
In other words it appears they wanted to take Him (by force) and carry Him off or hurt Him but it was not His time so this was not possible.
Sensing their desire to take Him (and in all probability their desire to kill Him – verse 21)
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, “I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.”
We’ve talked about this before but Jesus was there revealing Himself to HIS people.
In response they wanted to kill Him. He sensed this. And He informs them that He (indeed) is going to go His Way (back to where He came from). Then He adds:
“And you shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: where I go, you cannot come.”
The immediate application is physical. Jesus was going to disappear from them physically in short order, and there would be a time that the Jews would be stridently seeking Him, and would not find Him, but would die in their sins. And as a result, be prohibited from going where He would go.
This is true of all humankind.
The time will come for every single non-believer, every “rejecter of Christ in this life,” when they will seek Him – they may even long to go or be where He has gone, but it will be too late. Why?
They will have died in their sins.
Again, in the midst of much misinterpretation and speaking without all the facts, there is a LOT of talk going on today about yours truly and hell.
I want to say for the record that I believe hell is a reality. That it is a place NOBODY who has ever drawn breath wants to go – even for a minute.
It is a place devoid of spiritual light, a place of pressure, of turbulent solitude, and one where gnashing of teeth out of remorse is present.
There is a way to escape hell and a way to enter it – the absence or presence of one key factor . . . ready?
Did a person die in their sins or not.
That is it.
To die “in our sins” is to go to hell after this life – I don’t care how great a life you have lived or what wonderful things you have done. Die in your sins (which means exit this world with sins – great or small – on your account) and hell is your destination.
Those who have received God’s solution for human sin – the life and death and resurrection of His Son – are SAVED from this place.
They are not saved from hell from the good deeds they have done nor ANY OTHER thing but faith in Jesus Christ.
Die without such faith, die in your sins.
Die in your sins, go to hell.
End of story.
How long non-believers remain there? Unknown. But hell does give up its dead.
And those who were captive there then stand before the Great White Throne and are judged, according to their works, and those whose names are NOT written in the Lambs book of life are then thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is in the presence of the Lamb and the Holy Angels and was prepared for Satan and His angels.
Those who do NOT die in their sins have also been saved from this most uncomfortable situation.
What it means and what it entails, how long it lasts and its exact purposes we do not know.
But it is a place of eternal fire (which I would say is God’s fire) and whatever is happening there is known as the Second Death.
Again, not a place ANYONE would ever want to go.
And again, the sole solution to avoiding it – to NOT . . . NOT die in your sins.
Here Jesus tells the Jews that they will seek Him (the Messiah) they will desire his coming, but the Messiah that they have been expecting and hoping for will not come – because they have rejected Him.
I cannot help but believe the same exact picture can be applied to any and all who reject the Messiah today.
They will seek Him, they will desire to go where He is, but they will not be able.
Because they have died “unpardoned.”
(beat)
From this let me wrap today up with some thoughts.
1st. All those who reject God’s solution to human sin – the Lord Jesus Christ – will die unforgiven. There is no way of pardon but by him.
In Acts 4:12 Peter and John are preaching and say this (speaking of Jesus):
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
We call upon His name here and He immediately responds or we call on His name there and He may not – at least not until hell gives up her dead.
Where He went we want to go. There is no person in their right mind who would want to go to hell or the lake of fire over going to where he went.
But we go there only by faith – faith in Him, as the way, the truth, the life who came to open the way.
May we all use our time and lives to help people escape that which He gave His life to save us from.
