John 12:25 Bible Teaching

Welcome, welcome – whether you are in our live congregation and are tuning in through live streaming or in the archives – thanks for joining with us.

If you haven’t been here before this is Church “deconstructed?” What the heck does that mean. In the end it means we endorse a very subjective approach to religion and that being the case we pray, we sing the word of God set to music, we study the Word of God verse by verse – and we leave application (end even interpretation solely in your hands).

So let’s begin with prayer, then we’ll sing the Word of God set to music.

Afterward we sit for a minute in silent reflection and then when we come back we’ll continue in John chapter 12.

Okay, we left off last week with Jesus making His triumphal entry into Jerusalem.

Afterward John tells us that some “hellenists” (of an unknown identity with an unknown question or reason) who came to Philip and desired an audience with the Lord.

All we have is a response Jesus gives to them where He says that He, as the Son of Man, was about to be glorified.

We commented on the fact that He was telling them that He, as THE SON of MAN . . . (not that “He, as THE SON OF GOD) but He, as the Son of MAN . . . was about to be glorified.

In 1st Timothy 2:5 we read a supportive passage to this concept which helps us understand this better. It says:

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus.”

This is NOT saying that Jesus wasn’t God in His flesh. It is simply telling us the means by which God saved us . . . God took on flesh, condescended below all things, and paid for our crimes through obedience to God’s will.

Again 1st Timothy gives us more insight into this saying (in 3:16):

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

In those two basic passages from 1st Timothy we are presented with an extremely healthy understanding of Our Lord and King Jesus Christ –

First,

“There is one God . . . and there is one mediator between God and Man – the Man Jesus Christ.”

And what was the identity of the Man Jesus Christ? The other passage says clearly that He was

“God manifest in the flesh.”

So, in that paradoxical combination of “God in Flesh,” by what means did the flesh of Jesus, the Man Jesus BECOME glorified?

Well, after telling the visiting Greeks that He, the Son of Man was about to be glorified, He then goes on and from what He says we learn how He became glorified. He says:

John 12.25
August 10th 2014
Milk
John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Last week we talked about his passage and both how it applied to Jesus redeeming the World AND then how it applies to those of us who follow Him.

Today, Jesus continues on this thought, and adding to it delivers our text, saying:

25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Okay, back to 25

Before we read it I want to let you in on what happens to me generally as I prepare.

There are times when I struggle greatly with the text and spend weeks trying to comprehend what it is saying. And often my ultimate assessment is faulty.

There are other times when the whole of scripture opens up and I am able to processionally piece the message together with a sound biblical foundation.

Occasionally there are times when I ramble out and on and just flow with information and insights. This is usually in the face of misunderstood passages. And this is what occurred in preparing for today.

So please, bear with me.

The next passage in the King James is so easy to misunderstand that many, many people have misunderstood it.

So let’s see if we can make some reasonable sense of it today.

Let’s start by pointing out that while the world we live in is difficult, and rife with trials and troubles and sickness and stressors, it is a world that God made for our benefit and enjoyment.

I mean God could have had the world fall into utter physical darkness as well as spiritual as a result of the fall but we still have beautiful babies, Hawaiian beaches, and many, many wonderful things around us – amidst the suffering.

As believers we certainly do not make this world the primary focus of our efforts and attentions but life is a blessing, it is purposeful – even amidst the suffering and absurdities.

I mean looking to our Lord we know from scripture that He Himself said that He came to “give life and to give it more abundantly,” didn’t He?

In that passage (taken from John 10:10) the word for life (in that Jesus gives life and gives it MORE abundantly) is the Greek word “Zoe” which is a general term for life here and in the hereafter.

In addition to that passage we are also paradoxically met with some interesting facts about our Lord.

First, where the Jews called John the Baptist an ascetic (because he came neither eating (anything but locusts and honey) nor drinking (alcohol) we read that the Lord Jesus came “eating and drinking” which caused the Jews to call Him “a glutton and a winebibber” (or a winedrinker).

So on the one hand we know that Jesus came to bring abundant living (not redundant living) and He Himself enjoyed life here on earth with a liberality that is often lost in religious applications today but now we are met with this verse which appears to be in contradiction to all I have just said.

Jesus has entered into Jerusalem and (in my opinion) was being received and seen by the people as an actual, literal King who was there to save physical Israel.

He lets these Greek inquisitors know that this is not the case, but that He, like a grain of wheat, needs to die in order to be glorified and to produce fruit for God.

And then He adds this misunderstood line:

25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Because of the way the King James translates the verse many well-meaning and devoted believers have taken these words and applied them to their physical lives.

Some have taken vows of poverty, refused to enjoy the earth God has given them, and had even had an extremely dower attitude which is telegraphed through their faces.

Some have gone to such extremes that they have beaten themselves in an effort to mortify the flesh (thorns on stage) or have adhered to ascetic lifestyles that disallow alcohol, tobacco, or “other stimulants.”

Anyone can make up rules on how to make life miserable, right? If you are looking for some see me afterward.

So let’s look at this verse and the context of what it is saying relative to the rest of the Bible AND the original language.

By consulting the Greek we will quickly see that the way the King James translates the passage is the primary reason why it has been so misunderstood.

Jesus said:

25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

“He that loveth his life . . .”
We know there are several words in the Greek for love and they all have a different connotation or meaning – agape, philos, storgay, eros.

Here the Greek word here for love is Philos – friendly love, brotherly love – “He who has brotherly love,” is the way to understand it.

Brotherly love for his life? That’s sort of odd, isn’t it? Odd as it is it does allow us to sort of conjure up an image of “pal-ing up with our life and just hanging out with it on the street corner, right?”

Then, as mentioned, the Greek also has some basic terms for life (with the biggest) being Zoe.

Interestingly enough Zoe is not the Greek word here. Instead the word is . . . psuche, the Greek word for soul.

SO what the passage says really saying is:

“He that is friends with his soul will lose it” (meaning his soul). Since we know that the Greeks defined psuche (or soul) as “the mind, will, and emotions” of man, we could understand this passage as saying:

“He that loves his own mind, will and emotion will lose it.”

That is a VERY different meaning than “He who loves his life will lose it,” isn’t it?

And by it we have a much clearer and more reasonable view of the Lord and Him saying that “He came to bring Zoe life MORE abundantly, right?

From this I think we can say that while the Lord seemed to appreciate a good party, and friends, and wine, and good food . . . I think we can readily and rightly assume

“that Jesus did NOT love His own mind, will, and emotion . . .” in fact, He actually must have “hated His mind will and emotion in this world.”

And of course with Him being our king, we can supposed that true believers will come to the same conclusion over time, right?

What is the difference between not loving our lives and not loving our souls?

It all boils down to intent, priorities, and focus. It all boils down to our hearts, where our minds are focused, and what we want relative to our will or God’s.

See, the Son of Man could not have had “preferential treatment” (did not have brotherly love) for His own mind, will, and emotion – He was preferential to His Father’s will – so much so He was not only willing to lay His life down and die but He was (FROM birth) willing to lay down all of His desires, all of His mind, all of His will, all of His emotions and He would not befriend them – His love and devotion to God reigned.

But interestingly enough we also know that the Lord actually lived a life. He was a carpenter – had a trade, made money, ate real food, drink real wine. He partook in the blessings God gave us all. But when it came to His will (beat) He did NOT love or befriend it.

And because He perfectly renounced His will and loved ONLY the Father’s, He – the Son of Man – is our mediator before the invisible God of Consuming Fire.

It’s interesting because we can look at the life He lived, the things He actually did, His attitudes, and His actions and note that though He was in total harmony with God’s will and NEVER His own, He enjoyed life.

The religious rulers tried to condemn Him for the way He approached life, they wanted outward conformity to things that appeared holy.

But Jesus was inwardly holy, which made the outward enjoyments good and right.

Paradoxically, He was the man of sorrows, acquainted with grief, but that was all in relation to His constant dying to self and to the selfish will and ways that resided in His flesh.

But that sorrow was a completely different matter which is totally separate from enjoying life and living.

Admittedly the line is so thin it is easily crossed and confused.

When a believer has “not loved His soul” it does not mean they cannot love life and others. Quite the contrary, it is by and through not befriending our own soul that we are introduced to life and life more abundantly.

So we paradoxically find that those who have NOT befriended and loved their own soul are often the most social and happy people on earth because they are filled with abundant living due to Him in their person.

This is why in the life of Jesus we are presented with paradoxical things – He was a man of sorrows but one who could provide abundant living.

(beat)

Sometimes we come across people who believe themselves to be good. They might even say things like:

“We’ll I’ve lived a pretty good life and tried to do well and if that isn’t good enough for God, well He can decide what to do with me.”

Listen closely – for any of us to live a life that would be considered acceptable to God we (like Jesus, the Son of Man did) would have to have NEVER given preferential treatment to our mind, will and emotions – but to always have chosen His.

Some of us might do really well or maube we only fail once a day but the ONLY one that has ever lived entirely according to the will of God is the Glorified Son of Man, Jesus, Lord and King.

And not only did He accomplish this (without exception) His MOTIVES for accomplishing it were perfect – out of love for the Father and For us – the two great commandments.

This is why and how The Son of Man is our Lord and King “to whom we look to for salvation,” “in whom we trust,” “the only name whereby we can be saved” – by and through His life lived and His blood shed – not our life lived or our own offerings to God pledged for atonement.

With this knowledge of Jesus we then (as professing Christians) either seek to do the will of our King or we seek love our souls more.

I have a man I have counseled with (almost daily) for years – none of you know him.

He has a battle with the flesh like few I have ever encountered – we are talking a daily life of rollercoaster living to the point of it appearing like spiritual schizophrenia.

His “said” intentions to do God’s will are tearful and remarkably convincing but he has always returned to a brotherly love for his own soul in the end.

This past month I have challenged him to try and replace some of his flesh with some things of the Spirit by rising early and greeting the day by reading the Bible.

The rising early is especially good because for him it would mean going to bed early (which would mean not getting drunk and turning to prostitutes or porn or other things late at night).

We had a goal of one month set. Agreed upon. Prayers said, commitments to God made. After two days of semi success (instead of getting up early he took his bible to work and read there) he failed. Admittedly I grew impatient with him (it’s been nearly a decade since we have been talking) and I simply said:

“It’s okay. It’s up to you and I have never been in a place to change that. But just understand, clearly, that what you are saying, time and time and time again.”

“What am I saying?’ he asked.

“you are saying that you love your mind, will, and emotion more than anything else in the world.”

“No I don’t!” he screamed, “that’s the problem! I don’t! I love God more.”

“But you don’t,” I replied, “but listen – that is the position all of us are in and so all of us are without excuse.”

I could sense his agitation. “Well when will I love Him more than myself,” he cried.

“I don’t know the time and place,” I replied, “but I can say it will happen every time (and anytime) you die to your own will, and your own mind – and choose His mind and will for your life. That is what proves our love for God – or anyone else for that matter – not what we feel, not what we say, what we do . . . for Him.”

There was a long pause.

“Well when will I be able to choose to do His will over my own?” he asked.

“Probably,” I said, thinking at the same time that his questions were really good, “probably when you love Him more than you love yourself. And that will happen when you are able to clearly and honestly see who He is (relative to you) and what He has done on your behalf. When that is clearly known and understood, a person can’t help but to love Him more.”

There was silence. And I purposefully added:

“Unless they are so totally self-absorbed nothing can reach through to them.”

“You mean like me?”

“That’s for you to decide.” I said.

He turned into a child.

“But I want to be saved. I don’t want to go to hell.”

I replied sternly:

“We have gone over this a thousand times. We are saved by grace through our faith in Him. Such faith will always result in fruit. Always. And the fruit is first, LOVE for God, and second, LOVE for others. Love for self takes third.”

And I left it at that.
(beat)

It is not a mistake that the creed of Satanism, authored by Anton Le Vay, is “Do what thy will.”

It is the basis and clarion call of this world.

Look back to the Lord being tempted in the wilderness. Every one of Satan’s temptations were focused on Jesus embracing His own will for His own reward.

Of course He responded to every challenge or temptation with,
“It is written, it is written, it is written,” meaning, “I will do what God has said NOT what I think or want or will.”

And Satan left Him.

But in very short order (from where we are in John’s narrative) Satan will return and attempt to get the Son of Man to befriend His own soul one more time – and to refuse the cross.

In Matthew we read about the Son of Man facing this temptation in the garden.
It says:

(Matthew 26:39) “And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: (beat) nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”

And then He proceeded to an experience of utter torture – for us.

True Christianity says, “God’s will,” while the rest of the world says, “Man’s will.” At the end of it all – I truly believe that the very content of our individual lives will be weighed on this scale – with our will amounting to self love, and His will amounting to selfless love.

And so the Lord has warned us here that those who are “loving brothers to their own souls” will lose those souls.

This idea is echoed by the Lord in another way in Mark (8:36) when He asked:

“For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”

“What value could possessing “all the kingdoms of the world,” or turning “all the rocks turned to bread,” or having “all power over every living thing” if in the end the man (who possesses such things) will actually lose his mind, lose his will, and lose his emotion” . . . essentially forfeiting his eternal identity as the price?

In this light we know the reason why Jesus says here in John 12:25:

25 He that loveth his soul shall lose it.

I am more than personally convinced that God has reconciled the entire world to Himself by the shed blood of His Son.

The victory has been won by Him and neither Man or Satan will thwart it and that because of it all human kind will be reconciled to God in some fashion or another.

I am equally convinced that there are those who will be saved from the second death (by faith on His Son) and will reap unto themselves life eternal.

For these I believe the reward will be (in part) the retaining their own souls – their own minds, wills and emotions.

I am further convinced that those who do not escape the second death after this life will enter into a process where they lose all of their mind, will, and emotion that was not turned over to the will of God while here.

Truly, what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul?

So . . . (beat) . . . we know that Jesus did not love his life (or befriend His own soul).

In the very next line of verse 25 He adds:

“and he that hateth his life (in this world) shall keep it unto life eternal.”

It would be really easy to apply this line from the King James to the “physical elements and circumstances” of our lives.

The kids today have a line they frequently use when circumstances get tough – they say: “I hate my life.”

“I hate the circumstances of my life – that I am poor, or short, or fat, or not as smart as others or don’t have a future” – whatever the physical circumstances are, right?

This is NOT what Jesus is saying here. Again, we know this from the Greek because once again the word for life is NOT zoe but psuche – soul!

What He is really saying is:

“And He who hates his soul in this world.”
(his mind, his will, and his emotion) . . . shall KEEP it (his mind, will, and emotion) unto life eternal.”

The word for hate here is “miseo” and it means to “detest.” In a more specific sense it really means, “to detest something to the point that you persecute it.”

From this I have a few notions – you may have more.

First, we know from Hebrews that it was through “suffering” that Jesus learned obedience.

The suffering was the fact that He detested His own “fleshly mind, will, and emotion” so much that “He persecuted them.”

I would suggest that this is how we view Christian suffering and our “hating” life.

Again, we know that Jesus would not allow His soul to rule (over the will of God) but we also know that He outwardly “came eating and drinking.”

In other words, where men have a tendency to take verse 25 and apply it to physical suffering (like self-flaggelation, extreme asceticism, or vows of poverty) this is not the primary meaning.

Of course, if the mind will and emotion of a person are “detested to the point of persecution” he or she may (MAY) wind up in poverty or some level of asceticism may result, but the true primary meaning of hating the soul is first “a detestation of “the carnal mind, will, and emotions of a person” NOT the physical elements that follow in thereafter.

How does a believer “persecute” (hate) their own “mind, and will, and emotion?”

Well first, let’s reiterate that we are talking about persecuting the natural “mind, will and emotion” we all possess at birth.

And then we must admit that the only effective (eternally applicable) way to overcome it is by and through the presence of the Holy Spirit to offset its effects.

For Christ, scripture tells us that the presence of the Holy Spirit was with Him fully and was NOT given to Him incrementatlly from birth. So He was able to detest “His fleshly soul to the persecution of it” by and through relinquishing it over to its influences from birth.

In our case we know that we have to be born-again and filled with God’s “mind, will, and emotion” (which comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit) as a means to even initiate true . . . detestation.

Then, over time, regenerated believers learn (just as Jesus learned obedience by the things He suffered) we learn to let, “to allow” God to operate in and through us which works toward victory over the will and ultimate persecution of it.

It is truly a partnership, one that may be described as all of us being asked to dance with God, but with Him always taking the lead and our decision to follow Him . . . or to resist and pull the direction we want to dance.

We might imagine it this in another way:

When we are born physically our natures begin to mesh with our nurture. In time we are handed the keys to a brand new vehicle and told to drive down the road of life.

Some people, due to their temperament and nurture, are extremely cautious drivers and they rarely break the law – and if they do it is often inadvertently.

Other drivers – due to temperament and nurture – are devils behind the wheel and do more breaking of the law than keeping it as they drive life’s highways.

Whether people are law abiding drivers or horrible law breaking drivers – all (unlike Jesus Christ) have broken the law and fall short of the glory of God.

And all are condemned.

So that’s the human situation.

When a person comes to understand who Jesus is and what He has done and is born-again by His Spirit he or she have been forgiven of all the law-breaking they have done (and will certainly do in the future) whether their law braking was big and purposeful or small and inadvertent.

In other words in Christ everyone’s driving record is perfect and cleared of all infractions.

Hopefully we get this. So whenever the car crashes and we are injured or killed, we are secure in this total reprieve of guilt.

But here’s the application to what Jesus has been saying here in John:

Just because a person has been forgiven of all their infractions behind the wheel (past present and future) DOES not mean that as Christians they then forfeit driving the road of life.

They still have to get behind the wheel and proceed – hopefully where God directs them.

As people forgiven we are now, as drivers, faced with two factors relative to our lives as believers –

Where to go AND how to conduct ourselves as we journey toward the destination.

“Under where to go” do we love our own minds, wills, and emotions or His becomes the question?

Do we pull a Jonah or an Noah?

And then as we operate the vehicle along our journey we are again forced to ask:

Do we listen to our soul or His will when confronted by bad road conditions, bad drivers, bad weather and the like.

Well, we all know that when we are new Christians (babe’s in Christ) we are in a place where a lot of old driving habits need to be replaced with new.

Some of those old man habits linger a long, long time – and sometimes (when we think we have gotten rid of them) they return upon us without our even realizing it.

Thank God for His grace as we learn to drive where He wants us to go, right?

I would suggest this is what Jesus is generally speaking to here.

Are we off-roading and flipping off the world on a major self-willed joyride in our Christian walk or are we proceeding in the direction He wants us to go and operating according to His will and ways along the way?

Those committed to Him will take His directions and drive according to His will and not their own.

Of course the Old man is constantly trying to take the journey (and the wheel) back over – He wants to drive, right? He wants to take control – all the time.

Jesus is saying that we need to persecute him and his desires – hate him so much we’ll choose (out of love for god and Man) to put him in the trunk . . . and Jesus adds, “in so doing we will have life eternal.”

In closing, let me simmer it all back down to two basic biblical ideas:

Those who live by (love) their natural “mind, will and emotion” in this life will lose it.

And those who despise and persecute their natural mind will and emotion will (by submitting to the mind and will of the Spirit) save their soul unto life eternal.

We’ll stop here for today.

Questions?