Dialectical Ontology

Heart of the Matter Live

Live from the Mecca of Mormonism, this is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. where we are getting together and learning how to live as Christians in the Age of Fulfilment. And I’m your host Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion.. Show 21B Live Show Dialectical Ontology. Taped May 12th, 2020.

Well, we have got some really cool stuff coming out for you in the near future that you are gonna be pretty stoked about and one of them, which I hope you will appreciate, is the TVAR version of the Synoptic Gospels – Matthew, Mark, and Luke. I am just wrapping the first run through and Michael will take the manuscript, format it, and get it ready for you to peruse. If you have been a supporter of us, we will send this segment to you freely – so be ready. But if not, you can get it through online resources which we will explain in the near future. Just wanted to whet your appetite as the process has been absolutely incredible and taxing – but I think the end result will bless the lives of seekers. I will address this more in two weeks but I just wanted to let you know.

Surprises and Blessings

We also have a number of other “surprises” that are headed your way that I guarantee with be a blessing to you in the name of our Lord and King – so stay tuned for them as well.

You know that I have been gnawing on the Trinity for years now trying to get my mind around it. I have begged God to reveal it to me, read scripture, debated it, argued against it, and had numerous discussions with people about it. Wednesday morning, May 6th, 2020 – the light came on. And I am reasonably satisfied with how I see the make-up of God today – 6 days later. So Wednesday Morning – I was sitting at my desk overlooking 400 west in Salt Lake City. And it all came into view. This was not a revelation of “new information” but it was a new understanding in my mind of known information relative to God and His makeup. And I want to share it with you tonight.

It is not exhaustive or complete, I’m sure, as God is not knowable completely. But it is where I stand today and I will probably not shift from it in any major way for the rest of my life. It is natural for Man, especially in religious realms, to seek for concreteness in our comprehension of things. Perfection. As humans we want to KNOW (or to be told) when to be baptized and how to be baptized, who to pray to, and honestly what to believe. Its part of our carnal nature to have CERTAINTY because certainty brings us comfort and peace, freeing us up to focus on other things not so certain.

The Search for Certainty

We see this innate human need clearly by looking at the history and development of western philosophy. In a very simplified form, and for argument's sake, let’s just say that Greek philosophy sort-of started off with two guys warring with each other – each proposing a theory they claimed to be “the one.” One described “permanence (or stasis)” in the world as the norm of life (his name was Parmenides) and the other promoted change or flux in the world as the norm (and his name was Heraclitus). Some people sided with Parmenides in their view of the world and others sided with Heraclitus.

Right off the bat, we can see the presentation of the make-up of God in these two presentations with Parmenides authoring the Trinity – a fixed concrete unmovable make-up of God and what I am going to propose to you tonight in the presentation of Heraclitus, who coined the phrase, “you cannot ever step in the same river twice.” Borrowing from this model, I want to speak to you all tonight about

A Timeline of God Among Men

Quickly looking back, Plato comes along and introduces us to Socrates and “the unexamined life,” and then Aristotle comes along and systematizes all sorts of stuff and we sort of roll out through the ages with men and women presenting new “concrete views” on life – with all hoping to arrive at THE answer. Years unfold with new concrete philosophies from great minds like Descartes/Kant, Hume, and a whole bunch of others – all proposing to have captured “the truth.”

But along comes this guy named Hegel and he suggests that Philosophers have been going about it…

The Dialectic Process and Understanding God

All wrong – that there is no one concrete way or Truth coined and owned by an individual that remains forever immovable, but instead there is a “process at work in the world” which he calls the dialectic. Now Hegel’s insights lead to Marx and Engels who worked the dialectic into their construction of Marxist social evolutionary theories – but this is not what I am talking about – I am simply using the basis of Hegel’s thought about concrete ideas to illustrate a shift in western philosophy from relying on one person or group coming up with a concrete “unassailable truth” to all views working toward creating others when it comes to understanding the make-up of God.

Somebody took Hegel’s process of philosophy and labeled them “thesis, antithesis, synthesis.” In other words, one philosophy stepping forward and claiming supremacy to all others (thesis) is challenged by another (antithesis) and that challenge creates a synthesis of the two – which leads to further exploration and challenge.

The Process of Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis

Let me illustrate: A thesis statement is made: All men are good. To this thesis comes an Antithesis: All men are bad. And these two battle it out until they arrive at a Synthesis of the two thoughts which might say: “Some men are good and some men are bad.” Cool, people say. That makes more sense than the black and white thinking of the thesis and antithesis. But later someone comes along and challenges the Synthesis, which has becomes the new Thesis, which is “Some men are good and some men are bad.” And someone presents a new antithesis to this saying: “Some men are both good and bad.” Which leads to the Synthesis: “All men are good and bad.” And so on.

Approaching the Concept of God

My point in all of this is to show that historically people have approached “the make-up of God” by claiming that “one view” is best and wanting certainty demand that this must be received by all. Which is the standard line of the Trinitarians who created the view of God some 400 years after Christ and demanded that this is GOD going back to the beginning of time out to the present. It was Parmenides all over again.

And this is what dawned on me last Wednesday morning – we can either continue to promote and argue for a “single right way” and demand that everyone fall in line with this theory OR perhaps, we can see the make-up of God as a continued revelation who at times represents Monotheism, at other times Trinitarianism, and at other times Modalism. And we see this happening in what I am calling “A timeline of God among Men.”

Before you disregard this perspective, let me go to the white board and try and illustrate what I am personally convinced is a better way to understand the Make-up or ontology of God than the demanded stasis that has gone before.

Looking to the Bible, specifically the Old Testament, God is described in the Beginning as:

This God of “consuming fire” could NOT dwell in the hearts of human beings – we were fallen and we were incapable of bearing His presence and the result, it seems, would have been annihilation. So, he fathered a nation, consisting of the Children of Israel, and gave them the Law, and promised to be their God as they were His people. And his Holy Spirit (pneuma) rested upon his prophets.

He was not called The Father, (with the definitive article “The” or a capital “F”) but the Nation of Israel did speak of Him as their Father in a couple of places. For instance in

Isaiah 64:8 we read “But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

The ONLY time in fact that “The Father” is used in the Old Testament is in respect and application to the Son prophetically, as mentioned last week, in Isaiah 9:6 where we read the utterance:

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

Understanding God's Evolution

But “God” was not known as “THE FATHER” until Jesus day – and for good reason – he wasn’t The Father until he had an actual Son.

Was this God of the Old Testament “a trinity” as the Trinitarians fully describe Him to be from the beginning and from everlasting to

The Evolution of God's Revelation

Everlasting. Not in the least. That is why the Old Testament doesn’t support trinitarian doctrine. It wasn’t applicable to God then. He had words that he spoke and breath that he breathed—yes, but the concrete version of the Trinity was not known or seen then and it is one reason why I have long had issues with it. But (listen) God was about to become a close semblance of the Trinity—out of His love for the world.

Change and the Incarnation

Now people say, God does NOT change! Really? “Was Jesus of Nazareth, the babe born in the manger a change?” He certainly was. So while God’s character certainly doesn’t change, his forms do, can and will—and have over the course of human history! So this change would begin at the incarnation of His only Human Son.

Let’s go to the board again. Write these words on the far end of the board: “I cause to appear, to bring to light; to show, to uncover, to reveal, to make known, disclose, to show forth, expound, to shine, to give light, to come into being, to come about.”

• Spirit (Genesis 1:2)
• And as “speaking” (Genesis 1:3)

Move out to Deuteronomy he is described as…

• One YHWH (Deut. 6:4)
• A consuming Fire (Deut. 4:24)
• A Jealous God
• Merciful (Deut. 4:21)
• Terrible, God of Gods (Deut.10:17)
• Gracious (2nd Chron. 30:9)
• Greater than Man (Job 33:12)
• Mighty (Job 36:5)
• Angry every day (Psalm 7:11)
• Generous with the righteous (Psalm 14:5)

The Trinity and the Incarnation

We note that at the incarnation, the Spirit or Pnuema of the ONE God overshadowed Mary and the Word of God was made flesh. This was the ONE God entering into “time and space and flesh” and relating or engaging directly with the human race through Jesus of Nazareth. In this expression, the One God was able to be with humans without destroying them. This was the beginning of the Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth. When He was made. Prior to this what was in Jesus was with God as his Logos. Here in flesh Jesus referred to YHWH as “the Father,” as “His Father” and taught his disciples to pray to Him as, “Our Father.” At the incarnation of the Son, the One God became The Father (capitals), and we have two persons of the Trinity in place.

FATHER AND SON (add to illustration)

• After Jesus' perfect life and deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. and resurrection, he promised to send the Pneuma of God to be with the world. This spirit is also called the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9). This was a special expression of the Father and the Son—the Father’s Holy Spirit and the Spirit of the

The Manifestation of God Post-Resurrection

Son combining in a third expression called “the Comforter,” or the Spirit of Christ.

This was different from the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit had been on the earth since the beginning, and was on the earth at the time of Jesus and the apostles causing people to see, prophesy and know Christ before Pentecost. But Jesus said he had to leave before he could send the Comforter. More on the Spirit next week.

So that is the personal manifestation of God which is reflected and described in the Apostolic Record.

Authority Given to Jesus

After his resurrection Jesus said to his disciples in Matthew 28:18:

“All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

Paul describing Jesus post-resurrection wrote in Ephesians 1:21 that he was:

Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

In Matthew 11:27 Jesus said:

All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; And no one knows the Son except the Father; Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Paul, again speaking of the Victorious Jesus said in Philippians 2:9:

For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

Speaking of Christ in Colossians 2:10 we read:

and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Peter, speaking of Him after his ascension wrote in 1st Peter 3:22:

who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

Ephesians 1:20, after speaking of what God the Father did in Jesus, wrote:

which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

These things make great sense now when we read Thomas, post the resurrection, worshipping Jesus as God and Jesus did not stop him.

It’s why Paul wrote in Philippians 2:10:

so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

And why Matthew 26:64 reads Jesus saying:

“You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Understanding the Nature of God

However – stay with me – and do not make the mistake of thinking that just because we see God in a certain model in the New Testament that this model is forever more. That THAT is the static unmovable concrete definition of the Make-up of God. According to scripture this is NOT so.

And we come to yet another view of the ONE God that scripture presents – the post-resurrection, post-ascension, post-return of Jesus (to his own) with reward and judgment, along with the post state of things after the end of that age. And the following is how I see the One God appearing to be to us today.

Father in center, Son and Holy Spirit.

The Resurrection and the End of the Age

In his epistle to the Church at Corinth, Paul is describing the resurrection in chapter 15 – which would begin at his return. And he says the following things which are really, really, really important to what things look like after He has come for his own and initiated the Resurrection. Ready?

1st Corinthians 15:23: But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, (the end of what? That former age. So when he returned the resurrection would commence, and then comes the End of that former age) when he (Jesus) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, (Jesus) until he (God) hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death (which is why I believe that the second death is no longer).

27 For he (God) hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he (God) is excepted, which did put all things under him (Jesus).

28 And when all

God as an Age-Related Phainien

things shall be subdued unto him, (Jesus) then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

In my estimation, God is now all in all – having had victory over all things in and through the Son.

Jesus our Lord and Savior, King of Kings, God with us, becoming the only begotten Son of the Father at his resurrection, was at the right hand of God, as described, but that was until God put all things under His feet, meaning principalities and powers and authorities and death and hell and Satan – as He overcame all of these principalities on behalf of the Human race. And once this was done, Jesus also Himself subjected himself back under God, that God would be all in all. To me, God now looks like this (see the side)

The Concept of Phainien

And from all of this I see God in the beginning as a completely monotheist would, and in the incarnation as a form of a Trinity of One God in different expressions and even persons and today as complete Modalist, with God Himself manifesting in father, son and holy Spirit. The view I have of God and his expressions and manifestations to us over the ages is captured in the Greek term, Phainien (WRITE ON BOARD) which is the plural form of the Greek Word Faino, which means: cause to appear, to bring to light; to show, to uncover, to reveal, to make known, reveal, disclose , to show forth, expound, to shine, to give light, to come into being, to come about.

This is to me the best description of God and His make-up. God is Faino – not only monotheist, not only trinitarian, not only modalist – but he reveals, shines forth, and discloses relative to the age at hand – God is “an age related faino.” And on this I am finally at complete rest, realizing that if there are ages to come, he may adapt to it too – all by and through the finished work of His Son. I realize that most if not all will not accept or even understand this, but I will go to my grave with this view of the make-up of God – He is not singular and static in the sense of Parmenides but is in flux, therefore never being fully understood by human beings.

Comments from Listeners

I promised to get to your comments from nearly two weeks ago when we ran out of time last week. So here they are:

M H Learned more again from you. I was looking more at this topic this past weekend and found a lecture by a guy named Michael Heiser (my youtube name M H isn't Michael Heiser btw, we just have the same initials). Anyways, I thought he made a convincing argument using the Bible, Targums, Philo, and pre 2nd century AD Jewish sources that there could have been Jews walking around thinking of a "tri-partate" Godhead before Jesus even showed up. Not saying he's right or wrong, or trying to argue pro or anti trinity, but I think you might find it interesting. If you want to hear him out search youtube for "the jewish trinity heiser". His presentation on youtube is the first time a guy explanaining the idea of trinity really made much sense to me personally. If I could ever get to a "trinity" myself, it would likely be this route. Thankfully Jesus doesn't say no one can come to the father except by me …as long as they have a correct view concerning what some will later call the trinity… Those who put their entire hope, and forgiveness of sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace., integrating no merit of their own, on the work of Christ on the cross – they're believers right? I don't see why they can't be called brothers regardless of their view on the "trinity". Thanks for the teaching tonight. I imagine putting all that history together into the concise way you presented it took some time and effort! Peace 🙂

3 Itty Bitty Piggies Story Time Yes, religion changes, morphs, evolves and evolves more, always has and always will. It does so right in the bible too, old and new T. Religious evolution is why endless religions and sects of Christianity develop, and why some are so stringent, even violently trying to prevent evolution through declarations, while still evolving….

Stephanie Smith I get confused when I read in the 1st chapter of Hebrews (NLT version): Specifically verse 2: And now in these final days, he has

Exploring the Trinity and Pre-existence of Jesus

spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe. (Does this identify the pre-existence of Jesus? Your thoughts?)

Remember, when the writers of the New Testament cannon wrote, Jesus was ascended and at the right hand of the Father. So when they wrote of Jesus preincarnate state, they used his earthly given name and referred to him – Jesus as the Son. God certainly created everything through who would BECOME his Son at his birth and resurrection, but God created everything by speaking it all into existence. That LOGOS became His Son, Jesus of Nazareth.

Verse 8: But to the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. You rule with a scepter of justice. (How do you read this? It's confusing to me, as God is calling Jesus God?)
Verse 9: You love justice and hate evil. Therefore, O God, your God has anointed you, pouring out the oil of joy on you more than anyone else". (Same thing here)?
And then, verse 10: He also says to the Son, "In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth and made the heavens with your hands". (??)

Just truth seeking. In many other verses, God refers to Jesus as his son, and some seem to refer to Jesus as creating in the beginning? Well, it confuses me and not sure I quite understand.

Growing in Faith

I was always a little confused about the "Trinity", just accepted it blindly when I was young in the faith. Growing in the faith truly is a process, and I never want to stop seeking truth and growing, but always loving with God's love along the way. Thank you for all your time, energy and your passion for truth seeking in the love of Christ.

Community Thoughts

Madison Coon @9:00 "I Choose to Trust…"

Jack Dawson With all the great content lately Shawn I’m curious if you’ve ever seen the documentary Jesus Camp… If you have seen it or eventually watch it… I’d love at some point to hear your thoughts on it. Or if you have already commented on that documentary at some point on HOTM, I’d appreciate on where to find you talking about it.

Madison Coon @2:40… Powerful

Dean Medcalf Great presentation on the subject. Simple logical sense to balance Rome in addition to previous infighting with people that want to take the faith and turn it into a mystery school, which diverts away from the key points taught by Jesus and past on to selected individuals to publish.

The Interpretation of 'Logos'

daome2012 Since idolaters believe that god= 1 person… And John 1:1 is clear that the Word is God … Can idolaters explain how the Word isn't a person prior to incarnation and more to the point can idolaters explain how Jesus isn't the incarnate Father?

J7 T8 I think we need to remember that the NT was written entirely in Greek by Greek speaking believer gentiles. Logos "word" in John 1:1 doesn't hold the same exact meaning as OT theology or modern English assumptions. It's a philosophical greek descriptor. It basically means Devine Reason and is actually the root of the English word logic. Not "word" meaning speach in writing, or even often extend further to even mean the Bible.

Reflections from Past Discussions

David Paulk Hey Shawn! I enjoyed watching again. I appreciate your respectful tone when referencing me and the questions I had regarding the scriptures I offered to support some of the reasons I think the Trinity is Biblical. I wish we could verbally dialogue, but I know you're a busy guy. While you haven't yet changed my perspective on these passages, you definitely gave me some things to consider and I appreciate that. I tried to call in towards the end but nobody answered. All good though. Thank you again for your peaceful and respectful manner in discussing this topic on your show. Feels kind of cool to be a part of the Heart of the Matter show's history. I hope to meet you someday. God bless you Shawn!

Madison Coon 7:55… very powerful thought

Shamoa Krasieski I learned something new today, the Johannine Comma. Thank you Shawn.

MyMagicman21 Also shawn I can't see how when Jesus says my father does the works n the words u hear are not mine but he who sent me, To me he talking about himself as the father but though

Exploring Theological Perspectives

the son in the foram of a man. The Father dwelt among his people no one else.

Open-Mindedness in Dialogue

Shawn, I really like how good-natured and open you are to criticism and discussion. I truly believe the ability to agree to disagree agreeably is what keeps us a civilized society. So many are still choosing to shut out rational dialectic and mental exercise. Those minds will continue to atrophy, be weak, fragile, and sometimes lash out in violence in absence of compassion and intellect.

"It is customary to blame secular science and anti-religious philosophy for the eclipse of religion in modern society. It would be more honest to blame religion for its own defeats. Religion declined not because it was refuted, but because it became irrelevant, dull, oppressive, insipid. When faith is completely replaced by creed, worship by discipline, love by habit; when the crisis of today is ignored because of the splendor of the past; when faith becomes an heirloom rather than a living fountain; when religion speaks only in the name of authority rather than with the voice of compassion—its message becomes meaningless."

Abraham Joshua Heschel, God in Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism

Keep up the good work Shawn…

Understanding Jesus and God

Ramon Cruz wrote: I think the collection of ancient Jewish writings called the "Bible" is a unified story that leads us to Jesus (not to God directly). Since we cannot directly relate to God (YHVH), the more we understand who Jesus really is, the more we may understand who God is.

Let us see the "truths" of the Bible through spiritual lenses and grow in it; let His Spirit reign!

“Our thoughts, opinions, doctrines, tradition, and feelings are all obstacles to the truth.” Darrell Scott

Perspective on Oneness and Trinity

MyMagicman21 commented: Hey Shawn, just wanted to say I'm more of a oneness view because I see it as the same person. Sorry if you disagree, I love everyone who disagrees with me—even you. But to say the words spoken out of the mouth of God is not God, in regards to the Father, that's where you and I are different. It makes more sense, hope you can shed some light on what I'm meaning.

C Whitener expressed gratitude: Thank you very much for introducing me to the "Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7-8)." I have already inserted a footnote into my Bible. It seems very credible and my NLT eluded to the fact that it was used in only later texts. Thanks!!!

People of the Free Gift questioned: If Jesus was God's "word" become flesh, how is God "speaking" from heaven at Jesus' baptism, transfiguration? How can Jesus say, "I only do what the father 'tells' me to do?"

M H shared: I'm looking forward to your view next week. I think I like where I think you're going so far. I like your take on "the word." But about "elohim"— "elohim" is used to refer to:

• The one true God of Israel (thousands of times—e.g., Gen. 2:4–5; Deut. 4:35)
• The members of the one true God's council (Psa. 82:1, 6)
• Gods and goddesses of other nations (Judg. 11:24; 1 Kgs. 11:33)
• Demons (Hebrew: shedim—Deut. 32:17)
• The deceased Samuel (1 Sam. 28:13)
• Angels or the Angel of the one true God (Gen. 35:7)

That doesn't mean all of those referenced are on our God's level (not polytheism).

People of the Free Gift inquired: If God is Spirit according to Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, then how is the Holy Spirit distinct from the Father according to Shawn's view?

Shawn, can you please explain two things in relation to your view of the trinity: 1) How were Jesus and the Spirit part of creation without being separate persons? 2) How can you say that God is love prior to the creation of angels or humans? In other words, if God is one and only one, who was the object of his love prior to creation?

Joseph Smyth stated: I love, and I don't need Christ, or any other invisible god. I left faith and found love.

Randy Albalate shared: I would love to see you and James White in a debate about Trinity.

Mun Moon added: Better debate James White.

RESPONSE Heart of the Matter: “been there, done that”

daome2012 wrote: Since god= 1 person and the Word is God, the Word= 1 person. So the Word is either a separate person, given the Word was with God, or the Word is the Father. No wiggle room for idolaters.

Finally, on last night's show called, Jesus in a Burka, we received the following comments:

Dean wrote: Love this video, no pun intended. God would not be reconciling heaven and earth with…

Reconciliation in Christianity

Some sort of faction wars between everything. As you say it would be “us” doing that part.

Thanks, Dean. Simply put, the show presents the biblical fact that God through Christ has been reconciled to the world – and it is now up to each individual if they will be reconciled to God.

Check it out. It’s important.

Truth in Our Hearts

Finally, Kris See wrote: Because God writes Truth on our hearts, He sees the Truth in our hearts, when we let it in, and when we let it in it shows in the way we live and in the way we feel and grow.