Exploring Faith and Religious Discussions
Our special guest tonight is Brother James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. James will take the stage first and address us for no more than 45 minutes. He will open up with prayer on our behalf prior to his clock starting. After James, we will take a 5-minute bathroom break, and then I will have no more than 45 minutes to speak as well. We will then take 15 minutes (or so) to learn a little bit about James White and his religious experience—something we do with all guests in HOTM 2.0. James and I will then enter into a conversation, presumably about the doctrine of the Trinity. In that conversation, we will open ourselves up to questions. After an hour, we will take another 5-minute break, and when we come back from that, we will open up the microphones and phones for on-air questions from our viewing audience. At 10:55, we will wrap things up with me delivering a final short message, and then Brother James will have the last word for the evening. Following that, we will wrap the night up.
James White's Religious Background
For the few who may not know you well (and that includes me), will you do us a favor and tell us about yourself, especially your religious background? Alright, I figure the best way to approach our conversation together might be for us to start off and openly allow for questions to be asked of each other. James—take thirty minutes and ask whatever you wish. Then I will do the same. When we come back, I will have the opportunity to ask James some questions—so stay tuned. And check out these spots while you wait.
Understanding the Doctrine
It is a limited attempt to explain God. It is therefore not true in the truest sense. To me, a plain reading of the Old Testament consistently describes one God (without a Son and Father). The New Testament says that Jesus and the Holy Spirit came from God. John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou.
The Trinity and Scriptural Interpretations
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. Luke 4:34 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.
If the Creedal Explanation of the Trinity is true, and the Holy Spirit is a person separate from God but is co-equal, co-eternal with God, why is “He” ignored in every single introduction of Paul’s epistles, namely? Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans, 1st and 2nd Corinthians Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, 1st and 2nd Timothy, Titus, Philemon.
1st Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
Scriptural References and the Holy Spirit
1st Peter 1:2 is the only one who mentions the Spirit in his introduction but not in terms of a salutation from him or it, but simple says: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 1st John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. Finally, Jude writes: Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
My views seem to be clearly made in scripture. Acts 3:26 “Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.” Romans 15:6 “That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” 1st Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Philippians 2:11 “And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
The Trinity as a Human Construct
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 1st Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 1st John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
If Occam’s Razor has any merit, the Trinitarian view appears to fail the test. When I look around I see that the Trinity has become a THING in itself that is worshipped which takes away from our one God (described as the Father). For example, take a look at a promotional Jason Wallace put out to describe your visit: No matter how much the concept is defended and supported, and no matter how much the people who reject or resist it are called heretics, the Trinity remains a product of Man and most of the men who contributed to
The Trinity in Christianity
The Trinity must be taught. Proving again it to be the product of Man. A simple reading of the Bible will not produce in people all the elements of the Trinity that create it. Just because men decided to codify the teachings as a means to resist heresy does not mean the tool should have ever become the idol that it is. I stand with scripture and what it clearly says, not with what men say it says.
My final point, after all of this is said and done, is perhaps the most important and the most pertinent to the purposes of this church and ministry: There are those who hold true to the Trinity but maintain what I believe are far more reprehensible views of God. In other words, what’s more heretical, to disagree with some elements of the Trinity or to believe that God created a world of humans knowing He would not elect to save them. Not because they are evil or unworthy or less savable, just because He doesn’t want to save them. And in this, He knew that those He would not choose would burn in a literal insufferable hell forever and ever. All because He would not choose them to be saved!
Understanding God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit
I believe the scripture describes the nature of God the Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit. I believe that scripture is clear – there is One God. I believe that scripture is clear – that this God is called the Father. I believe that scripture most often refers to God’s Only Human Son as Lord and Savior. I therefore believe and teach in One God the Father and One Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I believe that Jesus Christ was God’s Words made flesh. I reject the idea that Jesus was a separate person (like a Father has a Son) before the world but that Jesus was God’s living eternal co-equal Word – that was made flesh. I do not know how to explain that mystery.
I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the One God. That when the One True God speaks, His words are sent forth by His breath (pneuma/ruach) or Holy Spirit. I admit that the Holy Spirit has a separate mind but this does not make it a he or person just as I believe that Jesus had a separate mind as the Word of God but was not a person prior to incarnation.
Light as an Analogy for the Trinity
Ultraviolet light can’t be seen or felt. (God) Visible light can be seen and felt. (as the Son reveals the Father) Infrared light can be felt, but not seen. (Holy Ghost) Is ultraviolet light different from visible light? Yes. Is visible light different from infrared light? Yes. Is infrared different from visible light? Yes. But they all come from the same sun and when we look to the sky we do not see three, we see one. One God. Not three. One. One God is impossible for us to tease apart because if we did we would cease to have the Sun, and therefore the light, and therefore heat. All are from the One Sun, but they are not separate from the One Sun. The One Sun is God, and that which comes from the One Sun is God, not three persons coexisting that make up the One Sun. The One Sun simply is and manifests itself in a variety of ways.
Essential Beliefs for Salvation
What beliefs are absolutely essential for someone to escape hell or be saved? Is it required to know or say Jesus' name? Is belief in the Trinity necessary? Does water baptism play a part? What about repentance? And is it essential to not be a practicing member of any banned churches? These questions prompt a deeper exploration into the core beliefs necessary for salvation.
The Concept of Hell
Tell me about hell. Is it still in effect? Is it literal burning? Is it eternal? Would you suggest that most of the world's population is going to hell? Did God know that this was their destiny before creating them? Do they go to hell because God does not choose or elect them?
Do you fully understand God? Are there gaps in the picture or assessment of Him? Is it possible that some of those gaps open us up to additional information that is currently rejected?
Christian Attributes in Challenging Scenarios
I’m going to give you three Christian characteristics and a scenario. You are stranded at sea on a boat for the rest of your life. There are two thousand people on that boat and plenty of food, water, and medicine for everybody. God will grant you one Christian attribute on the boat – either Faith in God, Knowledge of God, or Love of God – knowing they are very much related, but that you are still limited to just one trait, which would you receive from God as a means to your on-boat survival?
I want to reiterate that I accept and respect your right to believe as you see fit. That your beliefs are between you and God, and as your brother, I support you as a brother though I do not agree with your opinions.
The Spirit Versus the Letter
2nd Corinthians 3:6 Paul says: “Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 2nd Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Reconciliation
2nd Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 1st John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The New Age
1st Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are.
Understanding the Last Time
1st John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Hebrews 8:10-12 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Voice of God
Hebrews 12:26-29 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.
James 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
The Role of the Spirit
10 But God has revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1st John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1st John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 1st Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 1st Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. James 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
