Show 11A and Show 11B

Paul Gee Part II
October 14th and 15th, 2019

Live from the Mecca of Mormonism, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH, this is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology., where we try and get all people to walk toward the love of Jesus Christ. And I am Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host. Let’s have a prayer.

Denver Snuffer Interview

So, you may remember that last week we announced that we spent some time interviewing a man named Denver Snuffer. I will read from Wikipedia’s explanation of who Denver is for those of you who aren’t familiar with him.

Denver Carlos Snuffer Jr. [5] is a Utah lawyer, an author of Restorationist devotional books, a lecturer, a speculative theologian, and a revelator to fellowships of the remnants movement, a spiritual movement in schism with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). The movement has a few thousand adherents, many of them members or former members of the mainstream LDS Church. [6] He was excommunicated by the LDS Church in 2013 for refusing to cease publication of his 2011 book, Passing the Heavenly Gift which challenges many points of LDS orthodoxy. He subsequently has been identified as a prophet by many, and several of his teachings have been canonized as scripture. [7]

A number of Denver’s followers were here for the interview we did last week and in that interview he explained that he has had visitations both from angels and from the Lord Jesus Christ. In essence, Denver represents a modern, perhaps most recent break-off from Mormonism (there have been well over a hundred of them over the years) and has a considerable following today.

We are going to air our interviews with him in three parts – The first on Thursday of this week, the second on Saturday of this week, and the third on Monday of next week – and then we will use Tuesday of next week to open up the phone lines and review your comments on the content of those three interviews then.

Interview Dynamics

Now, I want to warn you all – Denver and I came into the interview cold – he did not know me and I did not know him. And though this is often the case with our guests, Denver was naturally reserved and very careful with controlling his words and what he revealed – in part I – where I asked about his upbringing, parents, siblings and the rest. Quite frankly, the interview was boring except for some interesting tales from his younger days.

The real value of the first interview is that is allows you to see Denver (who is creating doctrine, having revelations and seeing heavenly beings including Christ – first-hand in a situation where he is not entirely comfortable with what is happening. The second interview begins much the same way until I break the ice and explain to Denver that the approach he has been taking is not going to work. And then he began to speak a little more freely – a little. The third interview is perhaps the most informative as he frankly shares with us his ideas and opinions on matters. So anyway, long story short, the Denver Snuffer interviews will begin to be released this week, beginning Thursday night, then Saturday night, with the final being our Monday night show next week.

If you have ever wondered what it is like to sit with a man who leads a group claiming revelation and visions, this will be your chance to do it. Because of this new release schedule, we will address the charges publicly made against me, using some of my own words, beginning Monday Night, October 28th, 2019.

TVAR Developments and Announcements

Now, take a look at this: SPOT FOR TALKING TO MORMONS HERE. A few other updates before we get to the responses from last night's show.

I am working on the TVAR – which stands for the Transversional Apostolic Record. What it is is a “footnoted, end-noted, color-coded New Testament that will assist readers in their overall comprehension of the text.” I’ve been criticized for it and will address these criticisms in the weeks to come but know this: It is in the works, it is going to be a reality, and it is going to radically bless the lives of those who use it to learn the New Testament.

Additionally, I have been housebound for the past number of weeks due to a couple of procedures on my broken frame, and that has given me the opportunity to put two more of our books to audio version – “Born-Again Mormon” and “If my Kingdom were of this world then my servants would fight.” Seth is working to…

Free Audio Books for Global Audience

Get them edited and Michael will get them up on the newly revamped site (yet to be revealed) in the coming weeks. This will make three full books available to you from us not only free of charge but worth your while. So, you Europeans, you South Americans, you Africans, you Russians and Eastern Blockians, you Asians, and Australians – and every other beautiful country who tunes in – get online and take advantage of these audio books – we did them for you. Stay tuned and we will let you know when they are ready for the taking.

Discussion with Street Preachers

So last night we watched part II of Interview with a street preacher Paul Gee. In part one we sort of got to know each other but in part II I was able to sort of open my heart to Paul about things I have long resented about street preaching. In some ways, he opened my eyes – which I appreciated about him. I think that Paul and his friend who joined us toward the end of the show and was gifted with healing were eager to serve the Lord, and fair and loving in the face of some of my challenges to them. I purposely challenged them a little to see what kind of street preachers that they were, and I was really impressed with their decorum, and love – and I trust that this decorum is carried out into the streets as they strive to reach others. To me they were a breath of fresh air compared to the obnoxious, amped-up attackers that were once so popular at public events.

Examining the Concept of Hell

Nevertheless, we did encounter a couple of themes that bear repeating – both from Paul and my discussion and then with his friend and then based on some of your online comments – which I will get to in a minute. But between Paul and I hell was a proper subject – and I want to explain something that is at times lost on some in our audience: I believe that sheol or the covered place, and Satan were certainly part of the Old Testament and even New Testament narrative – that they once had an actual purpose and place in scripture. It is my understanding of end-times that causes me to believe that they have been overcome by Jesus efficacious work when He walked the earth, overcame sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. and deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. by the cross, and ultimately, after Satan was allowed to reign down on believers, he had victory over it completely.

If I am wrong about this – though the preponderance of evidence both biblical and secular suggest strongly that I am not – then Paul IS correct, and all who die without Jesus will go to the covered place where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. And Satan is still reigning, and Jesus is losing souls to his wiles. So, my resistance to hell and Satan are not based in denying their existence – I deny the modern application of them based, again, on scripture and on secular histories.

It is also REALLY important to know – to understand – that at this point in my life and in light of my understanding of scripture that if I was not convinced of everything having ended nearly 2000 years ago and that we are fully ensconced in an age that has left material religionA fulfilled system of temples, rituals, and laws—replaced by direct spiritual relationship. behind, I would be a radical zealot for all that the New Testament contains because I would believe that Jesus was coming back to take His bride and that we needed to get ready for it. In that scenario I would be ardently pushing for church communities to gather in brick and mortar buildings, to follow the New Testament with exactness, to excommunicate, and vet leadership, and do every single thing that the apostles endorsed when they were over the church. Know this. It is that clear in scripture.

What is ironic about this is I don’t see ANY churches today doing everything that we read about in the New Testament from the mouth of the Apostles. But understand, I would establish an altogether different approach to the faith than what we do at CAMPUS. Because, like Paul Gee believes, the scripture says that when he comes back he is coming to take a pure bride/church, one that is under leadership and authority, and had better live up to all that the apostles said. Another thing about our time together was healings – which Paul’s friend claimed to do in Jesus.

Water Baptism

The Holy Spirit

We also read the following in the online chat during the show.

One of the debates going on was about water baptism. So I want to say the following:

I also want to share something that was indirectly brought up about the Holy Spirit:

And then we also received the following comments:

Viewer Comments

indigochild7915 hours ago
So the wages of sin is death…we all die physically so…yeah we are ALL sinners…proof right there. Gay people, straight well we ALL die eventually… It's kind of hard for me to explain my point fully in English. The thing is gay people must have the right to believe in Christ the same way a straight person would and isn't it the belief on Yashua that saves according to him? I don't really get the street preachers (well God according to him) "healing" gay people. My best friend is gay and he prayed for years to be turned straight (didn't work), why would this only work sometimes I wonder….. same with different disease, it only works sometimes it seems. Do God favor some and not others? Weird .. Show less 2

Kingdom of the Son of God15 hours ago
The trinity is a false doctrine and going from Mormonism to trinitarianism is going from one false religion to another.

adnan albeitawi5 hours ago
Props to Shawn for asking those hard questions about eternal punishment conflicting with God's will that "none should perish," and for putting Calvinism on the spot for the insane doctrine that it really is. I don't think questions like that are often discussed among pastors and teachers because it really is hard to reconcile the illogical conclusions that are assumed IF CHRIST HAS NOT RETURNED. Anyways, I thought the street preacher was very cool, respectful, and honest with his answers; his love for God is genuine, and I don't think he is doing it to boast about "how many people I saved!" I thought the Street healer Segway was a good idea for another interview! Good stuff brother!

3 Itty Bitty Piggies Story Time16 hours ago (edited)
Thank goodness/God for this kind of thoughtful FHE. Sorry, but hell and Satan were added into evolving religion. Hell just intensified in "christianity" over time. Jews don't have hell or Satan, so, that was added like so much more? Jesus said His/our Father IS the ultimate good, loving, giving, forgiving parent. Oh, but that god is going to burn us in hell, forevvver, but He loves us? That god must be what Jesus called the father of the Pharisees. That sounds like the parent who would throw their kids in the oven and lock the door (forever) for disobeying or making too many mistakes or not choosing the proper religion that everyone adamantly digresses on, because He knows His sheep already and that only a few of could jump through all the hoops to get it right? How many thousands of arguing Christian denominations, not to mention all the other religions and their countless denominations? No wonder so many waking Mormons say, "Let me off that roller coaster!" Show less 2