Heart of the Matter ESPRESSO
Live from Salt Lake City, Utah, this is Heart of the Matter ESPRESSO! where we do all we can to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. I’m Shawn McCraney, your host.
Show 18 547
Larry Norris
April 25th 2017
Reflections on Bryce's Interview
Lots of response from last week's guest, Bryce:
From: Charlie
Shawn last weeks guest, was the first time since I've watched your episode, I got my panties in a knot, could you please read for your audience first John 4:1-5. And then talk about it.
1st John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
COMMENT
The Search for Truth
Lots from Adnan of which I can only share a part tonight – but it's very good.
From: Adnan A.
Hello Shawn, I just finished watching the episode with the interview with Bryce Blankenagel and thoroughly enjoyed the discussion. I think Bryce is on his way to discovering that truth that I assume he is seeking for, and I am just writing to point out a few things I think you may find interesting…. or may not.
First, I found it contradictory for Bryce to build an entire belief system based only in logic and tangible evidence because he has beliefs in illogical ideas. His belief in a second death is in NO way logical. When I die, my dead, decaying, body will not know whether the living are still speaking my name and therefore preventing my inevitable "second death." Neither does my decaying body even know what life I had lived; whether I was Ghandi, Al Capone, or an aborted fetus…
I think Bryce is wise enough to understand the fact that in true atheism there is no logic in the belief of good and bad. In atheism, good and bad can only logically be explained as the subjective opinion of the individual. For example, a man holds another man at gunpoint to rob him of his cash. After a struggle, the robber kills the man, and takes his cash… On the surface, we might say the robber is a bad man, but then we find out that the robber has gone 2 days without food, society has shunned him because he can't hold a job, and he is literally starving to death in the streets. He killed a man, but in that scenario, he only acted on his nature to preserve his life and feed himself… Can that be considered evil?
The Logic of Atheism
A human prioritizing his own life or well being over everything else, including the lives of other humans, is simply human nature. In nature, it is survival of the fittest, and quite frankly survival at all costs, even if it means killing, cheating, abusing, or destroying the world and/or people around you.
I am not disputing the fact that an atheist can be an atheist and still love others, do good things, and put the lives of others above their own, what I am saying is, where is the LOGIC in putting the life of a stranger, over your own life? Where is the LOGIC in loving someone who hates you? If you live by a belief system that is built ONLY on logic, then you must know there is no logic in loving others above yourself. Nature is not built that way. It is easy for you to be a good person, yes; because you have food on your table, a roof over your head, income, good education, and overall life is going good for you; But for the person whom life has taken a sh*t on, that person may not find it as motivating to be a "good atheist." Someone impoverished, hungry, or otherwise desiring more, will LOGICALLY put his life, and/or the life of his family, FIRST, even if it means killing, cheating, or otherwise destroying those around him.
In atheism, It is completely ILLOGICAL for anyone…
The Struggle with Religious Identity
to value the life of another over their own life and/or the life of their family member
Adnan Albeitawi
From E Christian
Just watched your show with Bryce B. Good kid, sadly he traded in his Mormon faith for atheistic skepticism, not even rational debate, but full on antagonistic thinking. He's been wooed by the atheists and they are his new gods; MEN!-JUST LIKE JOSEPH SMITH WAS! He's traded man worship of a fraud to man worship of moral nihilists. A common folly for Millennials is the assumption that their arbitrary desires somehow equate to validation. It's why they need safe spaces. It's also a good reason why raising kids to think they should all get medals or awards is foolish because it sets up the mentality that merely being present warrants EQUAL merit as those who worked hard to achieve a victory. It's all or nothing for Bryce. Because some Christians pervert the Christian message he therefore must equate ALL of Christianity as flawed. He is unable to separate the acts of wayward individuals from the moral message of God's love and goodness. IE, if Timothy McVeigh killed all those people, and he is "Christian", then it must be that Christianity holds that killing is sacrosanct. Bryce has still not left the rationalism that defines Mormonism, it's just that the hat is a different color.
The Debate Over Orthodoxy
Well, they’ve come out from the wood work to sink their teeth into a man the once regarded as a brother – Hank Hannegraff – the Bible Answerman. Again, I don’t necessarily agree with Greek Orthodoxy, but who gives his attackers the right to think everything THEY believe is correct. This is kind of the problem folks – when someone believes that they actually possess a perfect knowledge – of almost ANYTHING – humility, kindness, love fades and arrogance, mean-spiritedness, and even hate rise. I’m not going to mention names but I do want to read to you one comment posted and sent to me in the attack on Hannegraff – it says: “Hank Hanegraff’s conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy illustrates the importance – (LISTEN TO THIS) – illustrates the importance of . . .
Reformed Theology
That’s also known as Five Point Calvinism! This apologist is suggesting that Hanegraff would have been saved from his “apparent downfall” by embracing Calvinism, which he adds, “for the preservation of true orthodoxy, the Biblical Faith, and the Gospel. Listen to this as he adds: “The pillars of the Reformation, the Doctrines of Grace, and the Reformed Confessions ALL act as guardrails to protect the clear teaching of the Scriptures and to keep us grounded in Biblical Christianity!” Now, I am seeking all of God to guide my mouth because at the root of these words lay the very problem with the faith today. This apologist actually thinks his views, seen through the glass of Calvinism, are superior to the Bible AnswerMan’s views – and says that had Hanegraff embraced this lens he would have had guardrails to keep him in harmony with “clear teaching of the scripture.”
My God. This is what every Mormon leader says to every Mormon Congregate – the Church and its views are guardrails to keep people in harmony with (even) clear biblical teachings. I understand that this writer is in all probability sincere in his promotion of the tenets of Calvinism – just as Hanegraff is sincere in his tacit promotion of Eastern Orthodoxy. But note the irony – Hanegraf has embraced one “orthodoxy” while this critic refers to Calvinism as “true orthodoxy!”
I almost can’t take it – almost . . . want to just bleed all over this chair and die to put an end to this. Oh, wait! Someone already did this – and a trillion times more effectively – for all of us! Remember? And His commandment to us? To love. Where is the love. All we hear are statements on how right everyone is. Where is the love? The fruit of the Spirit? The long suffering? The patience? The trusting in God to be the judge and jury? Why can’t Calvinists be Calvinists – and just unconditionally love. Why must there be competing orthodoxies? Competing Jesus’s? Competing ministries all out to capture the throne of right-dom?
We have a woman who has attended CAMPUS and is a supporter of Heart for years on end. She is young, married, with a young adult son. She loves the Lord. She is not orthodox, she is not judgmental of other faiths, she just looks to the cross and the empty tomb for her hope. And she is dying. I met with her for
Love vs. Doctrine
The last time of her short life on Sunday. She is about to leave this place forever. What to say? What matters? Her doctrine or her love? Her church or her love? Calvin, Eastern Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Evangelicalism . . . or her love? The message we can all take from these hollow, meaningless examples of infighting and character assassination? Let us – error on the side of Love. In His power and in His name. By this will all men know that WE are his disciples.
Reflections on Modern Belief
Before we get to our special guest tonight – my brother and friend Larry Norris – I want to take a minute as a follow up to our guest last week, Bryce from Naked Mormonism. I personally thought the exchange was beneficial on a number of fronts but especially for all of us believers to hear first hand from a person of the younger generation and the way they are thinking these days. They are uniquely realistic and appeal greatly to what the scientific method – applied to all things – supports. Right or wrong this is the reality. And while we might sit back and point a finger at these kids and suggest that they are lacking or failing or somehow defective, I lay much of the blame for their state on what the churches have allowed to exist in Jesus name for centuries.
The Church's Responsibility
How are the leaders of the faith at fault? Let me count the ways: First of all we have either not taught the word reasonably and contextually but have instead presented it dogmatically OR we have not taught it at all thereby creating a generation of believers who have no idea what it really means, what it is really saying as a whole, or how it is supposed to apply to believers today. In the realms of dogma we have relied on traditions of interpretation spoon fed to us from a bowl of a 2000 year old history of Man and insist on preaching idiocies NOT supported by the Bible, like there was a world wide flood and an ark full of all species of animals floating around atop of it. That God created the heavens and the earth is six literal 24 hour periods. The idea that most of the world’s inhabitants are going to burn in literal flames of fire for an eternity – and God knew this – even likes it. And that Jesus is coming back at any minute to wipe out the world and rapture the few. We have allowed ourselves to use the Bible as a word perfect manual which will tell us how to do everything perfectly only to disagree with each other on almost every point of doctrine, and we have allowed religious institutions (and the men and women who run them) to insert themselves between us and God by granting them authority to speak for Him.
Modern Rejection of Tradition
The new generation – not so much their parents – but the Bryce’s of this world – seeing God through their fleshly minds, have looked around at all of this and said, “no way.” With modern technology their bailiwick, they not only say, “No way” to all things God, they publish their views for other tech-minded kids to read. We have been so ridiculously willful in maintaining superfluous traditions of our flesh we are losing millions – perhaps billions – of souls to the ways of this world.
Secondly, we have offered them emotional experiences as a means to fill in the gaps. Seekers will only be satisfied so long by emotional appeals and in time will turn down the music, or walk from the hour long worship services, or tune out our rhetoric and enter an online library. Finally, we are failing these young folks in refusing to hear them speak. Whether atheists, or homosexuals, or liberals, or intellectuals, it is incumbent on US to help them be heard – and to love them, love them, love them in return.
I know there are lots of you out there who watch me just out of morbid curiosity. A good portion of you are in ministry and you will never admit you watch. But take these things to heart and start engaging with your flocks and the people in your circle of influence with these things in mind. You don’t have to like me to know that what I am saying is true. Now is the time to change the course of institutional Christian religion before we lose more fine young men like Bryce.
Youth and Religiosity
However, not all youth wander into abject humanism. In fact our next guest is a young man who has my utmost admiration – for reasons that will become apparent as he speaks.
Introduction of Larry Norris
So let me introduce to you my friend and brother in the faith, Larry Norris.
