The Holy Spirit and More

Live from the Mecca of Mormonism, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH

This is HOTM where we try to encourage all people to walk toward His love.

Show 15B: The Holy Spirit and more
November 12th 2019

I want to kick off tonight by saying something I believe with all of my heart and I hope you will take it with the same seriousness as I give it and test the heck out of it – if you are so inclined.

The Apostolic Record

The Apostolic Record – what has erroneously been called the New Testament by men – describes a church and a people in very strict and legalistic terms . . . we cannot get around this and anyone who reads the text and does not see this is reading it myopically and with prejudice. The Apostles were VERY very clear (and so was Jesus) that there were expectations for actual genuine holy living on the believers in that day.

Expectations for Christian Living

We are teaching through the Epistle to the Ephesians at CAMPUS and in chapters 4 and 5 Paul lays out the following expectations he has for the Christians in that day and age:

Listen to a quick summary of what the Apostle to the Gentiles said to them/then:

• “put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.”
• “put away falsehood, let every one speak the truth with his neighbor”
• “If you get angry do not sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace.”
• “do not let the sun go down on your anger”
• “give no opportunity to the devil.”
• “Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his hands, so that he may be able to give to those in need.”
• “Let no evil talk come out of your mouths,”
• “Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God
• “Let all bitterness, Wrath, Anger, clamor, slander and all malice go.
• Be kind to one another,
• Tenderhearted
• forgiving one another,

Most of that is pretty reasonable and applicable to believers even today – except maybe the “doing honest work with his hands” which appears to mean something other than what it actually and literally says.

Additional Instructions in Ephesians 5

Then in Chapter five Paul adds to the list, saying:

• Therefore, be imitators of God, as beloved children. (that’s a pretty bold demand)
• And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
• But fornication and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints.
• Let there be no filthiness,
• no silly talk
• nor levity (which are not fitting)
• but instead let there be thanksgiving.

Christian Conduct and the Consequences of Disobedience

covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Therefore, do not associate with them, walk as children of light, and take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness but instead expose them. It is a shame even to speak of the things that they do in secret.

AND THEN HE CONTINUES AND SAYS AT VERSE 15

Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of the time. Therefore, do not be foolish but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, always and for everything giving thanks in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father.

Apostolic Teachings on Conformity

These words, plus a thousand others included in the letters of the apostles to the Church in that day, paint a VERY clear picture to the Saints in those days – “conform completely” – or you will not be part of the Kingdom of Heaven. Listen – even Jesus, in speaking to the seven churches of Asia minor, was direct about their failures and insisted on repentance from most of them, repeatedly telling them that if they don’t they would not be saved. For instance, to the Church at Ephesus, whom He compliments greatly for their labors He also says:

Re 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Messages to the Churches in Revelation

To the church at Pergamos, he said from heaven:

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice immorality. 15 So you also have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent then. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.

To the church at Thyatira (which was a real church with real people existing then) he said:

Revelation 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. (sounds good, right? But then he says) 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulationA real historical event fulfilled in 70 A.D.—not a future apocalyptic crisis. More, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God.; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Listen to what he says to the actual literal church at Sardis in Revelation 3:1:

“And unto the angel of the church in

The Call to Holiness

Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Church Messages

To the actual real literal believer filled church at Philadelphia in that day Jesus promised them: “Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.”

And to Laodicea He said most soberly:

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Apostolic Counsel and Warnings

2nd Corinthians Paul wrote 7:1 “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

Chapter 3 of 1st Thessalonians ends with Paul saying:

11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you. 12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you: 13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.”

Why all of this (and I have omitted hundreds of other passages just as powerful on the actions and behaviors of the Apostolic Church?

Because IF Jesus has NOT come back and taken His pure righteous Holy Bride, and He is still coming back to take her, the Body needs to change – radically.

Let me say this another way:

If I am wrong about my eschatologyStudy of “last things”—TGNN teaches all biblical eschatology was fulfilled in 70 A.D. More, and Jesus is coming back to take his bride as she has been instructed in the Apostolic Record, I am truly a most deadly teacher and you should run like hell from me and my views.

Frankly, you ought to run from any and every teacher who focuses on Grace or hyper-grace, and find a church or pastor who preaches and teaches holiness, and righteousness, and complicity to EVERYTHING that is written in the New Testament. They would be correct in this. Let me put it to you another way, If I was not convinced that Jesus has come AND taken His righteous and pure bride I would become a very very different pastor – I would demand righteousness, holy living and would, in fact, discipline anyone and everyone who claimed to be Christian as a means to get them to repent before His arrival.

Commitment to Scriptural Faithfulness

The point is we cannot play half-ass with the faith. We can’t take some of the Word, and call it truth but disregard the rest. It either is for us – of it was for them.

To put it another way – If I am wrong, then Jason Wallace and his approach, from what I can tell, is right – and you should follow Him or the likes of Him and His views because the only thing really off about Jason is His chronology and application, not what the New Testament demands.

I think its really important for you all to truly understand this – If Jesus is coming back for His bride she (YOU/ME/WE) must be holy, must be righteous in word and deed as we are going to create the New

Heavenly Jerusalem as the Special Bride

Now, in a message of hope and encouragement, I see the faith like this:

One Man, One Nation, SECOND ADAM, ONE BRIDE, ONE BODY

ADAM ISRAEL Jesus Culled from His own Believers thereafter . . .
(Failed) (Failed) (Succeeded) (Succeeded) (the world is set)
C O R P O R A T E INDIVIDUAL CORPORATE INDIVIDUAL

Hope that makes some sense. So last night I illustrated some information about the Holy Spirit on the white board as a means to address the LDS views of such.

Feedback on Teachings

We received the following comments from that show:

r desilva
Wow! Thanks for explaining that so well.

M H
This is a really clear teaching. What brings a believer to turn from some wrong direction they may have headed in if the Holy Spirit leaves the minute that believer commits an infraction to a code? I think it's the Holy Spirit within believers that remind them about God, or the Word, and that pulls on them to stop before making a choice, or to change course, or to choose one way over another, etc. And He's there until you blaspheme Him or kick him out basically. Sure it grieves the Holy Spirit if you're oblivious to Him but I don't think God quits on people. Some people it takes letting them run until they hit rock bottom before they'll turn back to Him. But I think He's going to be trying to help guide you to avoid wrong choices, and towards the ways that are best for you from an eternal viewpoint as long as there's still a chance you'll listen. Not leave you. And if you feed on the Word you give Him an amplifier. Prose complete 🙂

Believers' Experiences and Perspectives

3 Itty Bitty Piggies Story Time
When you're on "the hamster wheel of death" you're not with Jesus. "Walk towards my love."

Contact 360
Good morning! First of all, I feel really confused! Maybe it's just me. When I got baptized, I received what we call The gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands through the holy priesthood. Regardless of that ordinance and teaching, I have always felt I've had the Holy Spirit with me, not because of anything I have done but because of what my savior has done on my behalf. In my darkest hours, I have felt his influence and presence with me. But I believe this is more because of their tender mercies upon me rather than anything else. The Holy Ghost is a true companion of spirit! He is my friend, my teacher, comforter, the spirit of truth. I appreciate him so much and the role he plays under the direction of The Father and my Savior, Jesus Christ. Thank you, Shawn, your program is so valuable! Especially for all those who are searching for the truth. As a member of the church, I find your teachings enlightening. They enable me to search further into my own beliefs and heart, which I believe is a good thing. Thank you Shawn! Be blessed. Moira From England.

Scott Weinmann
Good News indeed Shawn Thank you

Dawn Zimmerman
An excellent and

Understanding the Holy Spirit

Clear understanding of the Holy Spirit taking up residence in us.

Jump rope stairs
Can there be THE Holy Spirit if there are more than one God.

Personal Reflections and Interpretations

C Whitener
Loved the show. I tell people that God lives in me. He created me for the purpose of relationship. Though the baptism of the Spirit, I have been restored, remade, given new life (born again). Through the Jesus lens, God sees me as holy and made in His image. It's not what I have done; it's what was done for me. I love the following passages of the Bible:

2 Corinthians 5:17 New Living Translation (NLT): "This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!"

Ephesians 2:10 NLT: "For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago."

Titus 3:4-7 (NLT): "When God our Savior revealed his kindness and love, he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit. He generously poured out the Spirit upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior. Because of his grace he made us right in his sight and gave us confidence that we will inherit eternal life."

Stephanie Smith
I love the simplicity of your presentation. I know Mormons say the Bible is true as long as it's interpreted correctly, so how do they interpret scripture that actually tells us God's spirit lives within us?

Teddygalbis
Awesome Shawn. You are a blessing. And right on, brother. Which is why I am no longer Mormon. Keep on keeping on. Peace.

Mary Christensen
Excellent!

Diverging Views on Doctrine

J. Huff Humble
I agree with you Shawn somewhat but not totally – We both are over 50 I stayed LDS you left We both have families We love Christ, Both former missionaries, etc “That we may always have his spirit to be with us.” We disagree on this not because I think you're wrong but because you seem to have forgotten the general meaning of our doctrine! I am a sinner Filthy rags Not saved by works Saved by faith through grace and the blood of Jesus Christ His life and death and resurrection 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. But if I go out and commit adulterous acts or murder someone or lie and steal, the spirit DOES withdraw itself because It will not dwell in unholy temples! I get what you're saying And I respect that But the Holy Ghost will leave someone if they become reprobate or willingly turn away from God, that’s a fact. The way you described LDS… ehhhh yes and no.

The squares would describe your analogy, the Molly Mormons that never question anything. But I’m LDS too… and I’m not a nice guy, I am the prodigal son… I am the rebel of the church… when we say those words in sacrament we mean it in general. The word “MAY” meaning The spirit will be with you but you do have to live righteously – the spirit doesn’t just hang out in us because Jesus died – he stays with us because he testifies of Christ and gives us truth – But I can’t just be born again and go back to the party??! That’s where we disagree. If I go back to the party knowing what I know and what you know – and we both know Christ is real? Well then we just became hypocrites and deny the faith!!! A true Christian changes and grows and may slip but we have to try. That’s why the prayer says “May” meaning – it will be with you and stay with you, it’s a gift from God!!! But it’s also contingent on your Christian behavior – otherwise there would be no meaning to the term Holy Ghost. The spirit doesn’t always strive with man. The natural man has always been an enemy to God. It will withdraw if that man’s Christian behavior mutates counteractive to his knowledge of Christ!!! That’s why we say “MAY” in the sacrament prayer because it’s a gift from God. Love ya Shawn Ttyl ??