Introducing Heart of the Matter

Live from the Mecca of Mormonism, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH. This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology., where we try and get all people to walk toward the love of Jesus Christ. And I am Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host. Let’s have a prayer.

Tonight, the fourth and final part of Hear Me Out – Next week we will get into our direct discussions about the Mormon institution and the people thereof.

Listen – Seth has put the audio version of our book, Knife to a Gunfight, on Youtube in segments by chapter. If you really want to understand the mass of thought behind the philosophy and thinking behind Subjective ChristianityA direct, personal relationship with God—free from institutional authority, guided by personal relationship, faith and agape love., take a few minutes and listen to this book. Some chapters take as long as 20 plus minutes and some are short as four or five minutes, but give it a go. It’s free, informative, and I am personally really proud of the information and insights the book brings to seekers of God through Christ.

Knife to a Gunfight – in AUDIO form – chapter by chapter – just go to Heart of the Matter with Shawn McCraney on YouTube. And while you are there, take the time to subscribe to our channel. We are going to start to unleash new interviews mid-week in addition to our Tuesday Night live programs and by subscribing you will get immediate notification of their release.

Staying Connected

Finally, check us out on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. And join us on Sunday – Live or anytime through our archives – as we teach through the Bible Verse by VerseTGNN’s Bible teaching series—book-by-book, through the lens of fulfillment and spiritual liberty.. Again – all free, easily accessible – and informative. Finally, this coming Sunday at the HOTM Church/Studio here in Murray Utah, we are having our annual Open water Baptism at 11:30 (after our Milk gathering). Come one come all.

Again, in this very verse, we discover that when it comes to “the living God” there exists a difference between the masses who have been saved from sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. and deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. – from hell to heaven – by the finished work of His Son and those that choose to look to that same Son and believe on him.

Exploring Salvation

Its a massive difference which begins here in this life and continues on forevermore into the next. God LOVES all. God blesses all. God took care of all by removing the effects of Sin and Death through the works of His only Son. But the freedom, and light, and love and power, and liberation He gives to those who choose a relationship with Him here, and carries on there at the other side??? Like I said, the differences are “night and day.”

So, the salvation part of the world is complete – salvation from hell – all of God’s creations are beneficiaries of that in that all receive a resurrected spiritual body at death given them by God according to His own good pleasure and enter the heavenly realms. We proved that through scripture last week. But amidst the inhabitants of this world, God by the Spirit, through the finished work of His Son, is seeking for those who choose to seek Him in Spirit and Truth. These are His family and they are very different beings in the heart from merely being His creations.

They are of all races and creeds, both genders, all lifestyles and personal make-ups. They sort of sink to the bottom of the glass of humanity due to humility and selflessness. They yearn and talk to God from wherever they are at. They’re genuine, never feigning or hypocritical, and they operate by His love. Some are trapped in the shackles of religious bondage from their youth, others have ideas about God that are errant. Some have sinful thorns in their sides. But boy are they people of faith, and people who love. These are the grand realization of God’s purpose in saving the human race – to have some freely choose to find Him and live according His ways over their own.

I’ve seen them in the Mormon church. And in orthodoxy. I know them by their fruit as Catholics, and as Hindu’s and Muslims – all won by Christ – all people of light and love. These are the folks the Heart of the Matter ministry exists for because they are the Sons and Daughters of God. Oh, I’ve met you religionists out there. You dogmatists, you orthodox demanders of conformity, you judges of men. And I receive you as you choose to be – that is required.

But from what I can tell you are not Sons or Daughters.

The Distinction Between Babes and Sons and Daughters

You love yourselves, you love your religions, you love this world and all that comes with it – but you don’t love others. You have yet to let the power of God overwhelm your will and ways and to drop your biased opinions of the rest of the world in the sand.

Sons and Daughters love – it is by this love that they are known. So, let me wrap tonight up by touching on some biblical presentations about Son’s and Daughters of God – as a means to set the stage for the remainder of our shows for the year.

First of all, there is a major difference both in scripture (and in the Greek mindset) between a babe and a Son or Daughter. Paul alludes to this in Galatians 4 when he writes:

1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child (or a babe, and infant) differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all (in terms of his future calling);
2 But (he or she) is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children (still immature babes), were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Maturing Through Spiritual Growth

The idea here is that “until God the father appoints the time,” those who are infants and babes will remain in bondage to the things of this world, but when we receive the adoption of Sons and Daughters, we are freed as heirs and Sons and Daughters of God through Christ.

To receive Christ by faith places all believers in the category of babes, so while certainly Kingdom bound, we have not matured and are therefore incapable of bearing fruit the same way a new branch on a fruit tree is incapable of bearing fruit. It requires spiritual maturity which comes by faith and love for God.

God’s overall goal, for His babes and children, for all of His Son’s and Daughters, is for them to mature to the point where they bear fruit, and that fruit is Agape loveSelfless love marked by patience, mercy, and humility—central to living in spiritual liberty. in all of its biblical descriptions. Conversion alone, while the first step in that direction, is not the goal, anymore than the goal of a human life is to experience birth – it is only the first, albeit an important one, in the phases of human development.

The Power of Becoming Sons and Daughters

This is why John, speaking of becoming Son’s and Daughters – becoming – writes, and speaking of Jesus, says (John 1:11-13):

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, (there is the faith part) to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

See, unlike all those in the world who have been saved from sin and death, believers are given “the power” to become the Son’s and Daughters of God. It’s a choice whether they use and appeal to that power or not and it is a process that the unregenerated “creatures of God” do not undergo – but one that all of His Son’s and Daughters do and will.

This process, not by any stretch of the imagination is comfortable or conforming to the ways and will of the flesh. It is insufferable, an alienation from the world, and wars against human will and flesh at every turn. Therefore, it is only received and embraced by believers who honestly love God and want Him in their lives and His Son as LORD. Those who from the heart of hearts don’t will not endure the trials and pains that what God has for all of His Son’s and Daughters – guaranteed. It’s just too much to bear, too demanding, for someone who isn’t truly dedicated from the heart to Him.

For this reason, and as an extension of this, another thing we can say about Son’s and Daughters is that God chastens (corrects – allows…

Understanding Suffering and Chastening

The writer of Hebrews expresses this really well in chapter 12 saying:

Hebrew 12:5 And have ye forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to children, "My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

This chastening is likened to suffering in scriptures. See, Son’s and Daughters of God, like God’s only begotten Son, suffer in this world. They willingly submit themselves to suffering here.

Differences Among God's Creations

This is why Paul wrote in Romans 8:17:

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Are you beginning to see the difference between those in and of the world whom God saved from hell to heaven through His Son and those who choose to be His Son’s and Daughters by faith? The latter are given the power by God TO BECOME something those saved from hell are not – literal members of God’s Family who will dwell with Him. And as a means to help His children grow God chastens them, and they suffer in this life.

In this verse, we discover that when it comes to “the living God” there exists a difference between the masses who have been saved from sin and death – from hell to heaven – and those that believe on him. A massive difference which begins here in this life and continues on forevermore into the next.

The Select Few

God LOVES all. God blesses all. God took care of all by removing the effects of Sin and Death through the works of His only Son. But the freedom, and light, and love and power, and liberation He gives to those who choose a relationship with Him here, and carries on there at the other side??? Like I said, “night and day.”

So, the salvation part of the world is complete – salvation from hell – all of God’s creations are beneficiaries of that in that all receive a resurrected spiritual body at death given them by God according to His own good pleasure and enter the heavenly realms. We proved that through scripture last week.

But amidst the inhabitants of this world, God by the Spirit, through the finished work of His Son, is seeking for those who seek Him in Spirit and Truth. These are His and they are very different beings in the heart from His creations. They are of all races and creeds, both genders, all lifestyles and personal make-ups. They sort of sink to the bottom of the glass in humility and selflessness. They yearn and talk to God from wherever they are at. They’re genuine, never feigning or hypocritical, and they long and do love.

Some are trapped in the shackles of religious bondage from their youth, others have ideas about God that are errant. But they are people of faith, and definitely people who love like Jesus loved. They are the grand realization of God’s purpose in saving the human race – to have some choose Him and His ways over their own.

I’ve seen them in the Mormon church. And in orthodoxy. I know them by their fruit as Catholics, and as Hindus and Muslims. The light and love of God emanates from their very person.

These are the folks Heart of the Matter exists for. We will continue to interview people about their lives and troubles and causes – but we do that to illustrate how to engage with the world as Children of God. We will focus on the LDS institution and the ways it burdens its membership, placing them in bondage. But in the end, we are seeking to know and speak to those of you out there who are

Sons and Daughters of God

His – God’s – in Spirit, and Truth, and in love – irrespective of religion.

Oh, I’ve met you religionists out there. You dogmatists, you orthodox demanders of conformity, you judges of men. I embrace you as you are – but from what I can tell you are not Sons or Daughters – you just don’t love. You have yet to let the power of God overwhelm your will and ways and to drop your biased opinions of the rest of the world. Sons and Daughters have and do. See, it’s by this love that they are known.

So, let me wrap tonight up by touching on some biblical presentations about Son’s and Daughters of God – as a means to set the stage for the remainder of our shows for the year. First of all, there is a major difference both in scripture and in Greek between a babe in Christ, and a Son or Daughter.

Paul alludes to this in Galatians 4 when he writes:

1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child (or a babe, and infant) differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all (in terms of his future calling); 2 But (he or she) is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children (still immature), were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

The idea there is that until God the father appoints the time those who are his infants and babes remain in bondage to the things of this world, but when we receive the adoption of Sons and Daughters, we are freed as heirs and Sons and Daughters of God through Christ.

The Journey to Maturity

To receive Christ by faith places all believers in the category of babes, so while certainly Kingdom bound, we have not matured and are therefore incapable of bearing fruit the same way a new branch on a fruit tree is incapable of bearing fruit. God’s overall goal, for His children, His Son’s and Daughters, is for us to mature to the point where we bear fruit, and that fruit is Agape love in all of its descriptions.

Conversion alone, while the first step in that direction, is not the goal, anymore than the goal of human development is birth – it is only the first, albeit important one. This is why John, speaking of becoming Son’s and Daughters – becoming – writes, speaking of Jesus: (John 1:11-13):

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

See unlike all those in the world saved from sin and death, Sons and Daughters of God are given “the power” to become the Son’s and Daughters of God. That’s a process that the creatures of God do not undergo – but His Son’s and Daughters do. And it is not, by any stretch of the imagination comfortable or conforming to the ways and will of the flesh.

Commitment from the Heart

It is only the result of people who honestly love God and want Him in their lives and His Son as LORD. Those who do not from the heart will not endure what God has for His Son’s and Daughters – guaranteed. Its too much to bear in the life of someone who isn’t dedicated from the heart to Him.

For this reason, another thing we can say about Son’s and Daughters is God chastens (corrects -allows them) to undergo suffering. The writer of Hebrews expresses this really well in chapter 12 saying:

Hebrew 12:5 And have ye forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to children, ”My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.”

God's Chastening and Suffering

"Ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby."

This chastening is likened to suffering in scriptures. See, Son’s and Daughters of God, like God’s only begotten Son, suffer in this world. They submit themselves to suffering here.

Romans 8:13-17

This is why Paul wrote in Romans 8:13-17:

"Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 ¶ And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

Are you beginning to see the difference between God’s creations (whom He saved from hell to heaven through His Son) and those who choose to be His Son’s and Daughters by faith?

The latter are given the power by God to become something those saved from hell are not – literal members of God’s Family who will dwell with Him in His Kingdom above. And as a means to help His children grow so as to bear fruit, God chastens them, and they endure suffering in this life.

The Suffering of God's Children

Suffer what? Injustices – which they forgive. Enemies. Whom they love. Worldly impoverishments. Which they trade for treasures above. Longsuffering. Which they exchange for impatience. Humility which they trade in for hubris and pride. The Spirit – over the flesh. God’s will over self-will.

And the list goes on and on and on but essentially, we can size the things the children of God embrace to the ways of God’s only begotten Son – they live like Him, love like Him, and place their will on the altar as He did. That only makes sense, right? If God’s only human Son lived a certain way, then the Son’s and Daughters of God would follow right on in behind Him.

This suffering is summarized in 2nd Corinthians 6:17 where Paul writes:

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

Led by the Spirit

We know that Sons and daughters are led by the Spirit of God, as Romans 8:14 says: “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”

And what is the fruit of that Spirit? Love. I mean, doesn’t scripture say about him that “he learned obedience by the things he suffered?” It does. Hebrews 5:8.

So God seeks for all who are His – His Sons and Daughters – to love (as He is love). The children of this world love themselves, they love the world, they love all that is in it. But God’s children personally suffer in pursuit of loving Him and others ahead of themselves.

In this, we see that God does not just call people to believe. There is a purpose, shall we say, “a hope” that God even has in calling people to receive and believe on His Son.

In Ephesians 1:18 Paul tells the believers that he has been praying for them that the eyes of their understanding would be…

Sons and Daughters of God

"Illuminated – to what end?" He adds, “that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.” There is no inheritance from God for non-family – for the people who die and have not become His Sons or Daughters. There is a place for them that our loving God has prepared for them and their will, just like he prepared a place for all people here, but it’s not an inheritance from him. That is reserved for those who love Him. Get it?

So how else are Son’s and Daughters different from God’s creations or even from babes in Christ according to scripture? Oh, I know! They stop acting and thinking like babies and infants, dividing over everything under the sun, and they move on in Christian maturity to sharing, accepting, to putting away attitudes that create divisions between others.

Growth in Christian Maturity

In 1st Corinthians Paul wrote to the church there and said:

1st Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for presently there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Go back to our illustration on the board from week two which depicted apparent lovers of Christ bickering with each other in the name of God and Goodness.

Role of Spiritual Maturity

In Hebrews chapter five the writer mentions a character named Melchisedec, then adds the following:

11 Of whom we have many things to say, that are hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Got all that? Then in chapter 6 the writer continues and says (ready?)

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, (as a result of everything I have said in chapter five before) leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Can you see what the writer of Hebrews is suggesting? It’s astounding! He first tells them that they are milk-drinking babes unable to use the word rightfully and he tells them to learn to ingest strong meat, and then he says: Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

What perfection is he telling people to go on to? The perfection of love! What James calls the Royal Law. Leave the doctrines and principles behind, milk drinking toddlers and GO ON TO PERFECT law of love.

This will ONLY happen – only – when we embrace the way God’s has set up his Kingdom while rejecting what men have designed via denoms and doctrines and divisions. They are the product of mild drinkers. They encourage infighting. Sons and Daughters rise above the din of material religionA fulfilled system of temples, rituals, and laws—replaced by direct spiritual relationship. – and extend love and acceptance to all people, all the time.

Identity of Sons and Daughters

Two more insights to the make-up of Sons and Daughters. We know that, according to Philippians 2:15, they are lights to the world, as it says: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

And finally, we know that as Son’s and Daughters we are rarely known or observed by the world – the world has little need for what they offer. This caused John

Love and Identity in His Teachings

to write in 1st John 3:1

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Its what caused Paul to add in 2nd Corinthians 6:17

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Engaging with Different Faiths

From here we move out to talk with our brothers and sisters that practice Mormonism. Its not to malign them, or ridicule them, or tell them that they are going to hell. Our ambition toward them – as it is our ambition toward all people on earth – is to

First, help inform all who are interested in truth of the Good News (which is by and through faith in His Son, the world has been saved and that by faith in Him, they can become Son’s and Daughter’s of God. Second, to help emancipate all people (but especially the LDS) from the chains of religious, spiritual and material bondage. And Third, to support, encourage, educate and illuminate Son’s and Daughters everywhere in their walk with God.

Communication and Participation

I hope this makes some sense.

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