Understanding the State of Souls Before Christ

“The greatest enemy of any one of our truths may be the rest of our truths.”

• William James

“The truth was obscure, too plain and too pure. To live it you had to explode.”

• Bob Dylan

Introductory Thoughts

Show 42 417 Has Jesus Returned – part XI
October 21st 2014

Live from the Mecca of Mormonism, this is HEART OF THE MATTERTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. where Institutionalized Religion Meets Jesus Christ Face to Face. And I’m your host, Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion..

If you are down, lost, misunderstood, alienated, full of evil, or confused about the meaning of life… If you bear burdens, need direction, or want truth that does not fail… go to God. Ask Him (straight up) to save you, to reveal Himself to you, to change your heart. To show you truth. He will.

The Condition of Pre-Christ Souls

Last week we got a call from Matt who asked a great question which this idiot didn’t understand. He asked: “What is the state of all the people who died before Jesus came?” I’m going to give a truncated answer that I hope will best answer Matt’s question. Everybody before Jesus came and saved the world, when they died, went to hell. It was called sheol by the Hebrews and contained a good place – (paradise or Abraham’s bosom) and a bad place, also known as prison.

Just like believers today are saved by grace through faith so it was before Jesus came and died. Anyone who had faith in the revealed promises of God, when they died, went to Paradise. Anyone who did not walk by faith in the revelations of God went to prison. When Jesus died and his physical body laid in the tomb, He went to the spirits that were in the prison part of hell.

1st Peter 3:18-20 says:

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”

I would suggest that this was, in part, a fulfillment of a prophecy found in Isaiah 61:1, which says:

“The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.”

Got all that?

After Jesus' Ascension

Then, when Jesus ascended to the Father it is believed the Paradise part of sheol went to heaven with Him and those who remained in prison remained there awaiting judgment.

I would suggest in 70 AD, when Jesus returned in the clouds with judgment that at this time all who were in the prison part of hell stood before the Great White Throne of God to determine if their names were written in the Lamb’s book of Life, and those whose names were not included were cast into the lake of fire.

That was the state of all who died before Christ and went to the prison part of sheol. As an aside, I would suggest that with everything being wrapped up with the house of Israel in 70 AD – including God dealing with those in prison, that now all people individually process through a similar system after life. Believers go straight to Paradise by His grace through faith. And those who die without faith go to hell (for a period of time) they are released and judged by the Lamb’s book of life and some escape experiencing the Lake of Fire but others do not, and again, this all occurs on a case by case basis.

Hope this helps brother Matthias!

Addressing Revelation’s Timeline

Last week we had a call from Gail in Vernal who suggested that the whole preterist premise fails because the book of RevelationA symbolic prophecy fulfilled in 70 A.D.—not a prediction of future global events. was written (according to her sources) after 70 AD . . . (and more like around 90-95 AD).

In response we received an interesting email from Adnan out in Moreno Valley, California. This is what he writes:

“Hey Shawn! I wanted to address a question one of the callers presented you about the book of Revelation being written in 90ish A.D.

You responded to her inquiry by saying that there is not enough proof it was…

Discussion on the Dating of Revelation

Written in the 90s A.D. and that there is not enough proof it was written in 50-60ish A.D. I think that there is some proof that it was written pre-70 A.D. and here it the best of it:

In Revelation 13:18 John writes: "This calls for wisdom: let anyone with understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person. Its number is six hundred sixty-six." Many Jewish, Christian, and secular scholars and mathematicians have come to interpret the number 666 as describing Emperor Nero. In other words, John was warning the readers of the evils that Nero will bring upon the early Jewish-Christians. John couldn’t use Nero’s name in his letter, so he used the Jewish numerology system to spell out Nero’s imperial name. The Jews reading it would easily be able to "calculate" (as John puts it) the number 666 and transcribe it as being Caesar Nero.

It was the perfect way to warn the Jews about Nero, without actually having to use Nero’s name; which is important, being that all of John’s activity was being monitored by the Romans. Where the Romans could never have deciphered the coded language John used to describe Nero, the Jews could.

Implications of Nero's Reign on Revelation's Dating

So what does this have to do with the dating of Revelation? Historians have pretty accurately dated Nero’s reign being from 13 October 54 – 9 June 68 A.D. This means that Revelations could NOT have been written later than 68 A.D.! John was warning early Jewish Christians about the evils to come by Nero’s hands; therefore to believe that Revelations was written in 90 A.D., negates the warning and the numerology written by John to warn the early Christians of him. I think this is the most substantial proof that hints at when revelations was written.” And I think that is really an insightful approach, Adnan. Thank you for taking the time to contribute, my brother.

And with that, let’s have a word of prayer.

Addressing Millennium and Other Questions

Okay, so we have a couple more shows left where we are answering the question: “When does the Bible say Jesus will return?” Tonight I want to try and answer a few automatic questions that pop out of people’s mouths almost immediately after they hear the suggestion that Jesus returned in 70AD. These questions are almost always prefaced with the word THEN . . . “Then . . . why . . . does the Bible say this or that?” “Then . . . what does the Bible mean when it says . . .?” Then . . . how do you explain (this and that) . . Then . . . when was this fulfilled? Etc. You get the picture. Two of the biggest knee-jerk responses that come flying have to do with questions about “the Millenium” and the references to the 144,000 in the Book of Revelation.

Examination of Millennial Doctrine

Let me try and address these two specific points. Millions of Christians around the world assume that the doctrine of the MillenniumA symbolic period of Christ’s reign—fulfilled by 70 A.D., not a future thousand-year timeline. More has tremendous support in scripture and is almost a central tenet to the faith. Churches like Calvary Chapel have distinctives that state that acceptance of specific Millennial teachings must exist before a church can call itself a Calvary Chapel. Many church denominations will present Dispensational system as THE biblical teaching and nothing else is deemed acceptable. DispensationalismA view that divides history into “ages” with separate plans—TGNN teaches Christ fulfilled all in 70 A.D. More says that Jesus return would be in two phases – the first phase would be the raptureA misinterpreted concept—biblical “rapture” language was fulfilled in 70 A.D., not a future escape event. More of the church, and the second phase of the Second ComingChrist’s return, fulfilled in 70 A.D., ending the old covenant—not the world. would be when Christ would return to earth to establish His earthly Kingdom for a thousand years (the millennium). Dozens of Bible teachers, “prophecy book authors” and end-time devotees have speculated on what the Millennium would be like.

I remember being in the doctor's office as a kid and looking at these colorful magazines that showed really clean-cut people sitting with lions and tigers amidst lambs in this peaceful utopia (I realize now those magazines were printed by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The idea of a thousand years of a peaceful reign of Christ on earth is certainly inviting but when we examine the doctrine of the Millennium the first thing we notice is that the term, like Trinity, does NOT appear in Scripture. I know, I know, there are other words we use to capture scriptural concepts (like omnipotent) that aren’t in scripture so in and of itself this is no reason to question the term millennium. Using the example of omnipotence we…

The Millennium in Biblical Texts

Do find passages that speak of God as, “the first and the last, the Almighty, the Lord of Hosts, and the like which can be summarized in terms outside of the biblical text. So what happens when we look at the term, “the Millennium" to find support?

The entire case for this period – being a literal 1,000 years – is built upon one 7-verse section in the Book of Revelation. This is what it says:

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

The Concept of a Thousand Years

Six references to this thousand years, in the apocalyptic book called Revelation, and it is a standard doctrine assumed to be understood by millions. Many scholars see this period of time predicted in the Old Testament in passages like:

Isaiah 11:6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.”
Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Or Hosea 2:18 which says (again, in very symbolic language): “And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.”

Interestingly enough, the idea of a Thousand years of actual peace was around in the early church. You see, in all the verses just cited in Revelation 20, the Greek word for thousand years is Kil-ee-oi. Some early church fathers such as early as the second century (including Irenaeus and Justin Martyr) were what was termed Killiasts. Interestingly enough, there is documentation that some Jews were chiliastic 200 years before Christ!

Debates Surrounding Chiliasm

When some early Christians began to incorporate chilism into Christianity it was condemned by many as selectively using scripture while avoiding others. For instance, scripture clearly states that the kingdom of GodGod’s spiritual reign—fulfilled and present, not political or future. would have no end (Luke 1:33) and would certainly not be limited to a thousand years.

In the 4th century chiliasm regained some popularity. Once again it was utterly condemned by a Church Council at Augsburg. Again in the 16th century one of my favorite Christian characters John Calvin also condemned the teaching (Institutes 3.25.5) and described the chiliasts as believers who “limited the reign of Christ to a thousand years.” Now, I realize that most millennialists do not limit Christ’s reign to a thousand years but this is just one example of grand misinterpretation of scripture – which leads to heresy.

Understanding Biblical Language

The major problem I have with all the emphasis on Millennialism begins with how we understand the biblical language today – especially language contained in the extremely esoteric book of Revelation. If you go with me to the very first verse of the Revelation. There is a very important phrase here that is often overlooked. This is what John says:

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,

Symbolism and the Kingdom

To shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: That line, “and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John,” is important because from the Greek (eshmanen) this means he indicated the revelation by signs and symbols. In other words, it properly refers to some sign, signal, or token by which something is made known. It is not by mistake this word is used because it was in this manner that John received the events referred to in the book – I mean the whole book is made up from signs and symbols. I would suppose that God, communicating through his angel, taught John through some expressive signs or symbols. Due to the very nature of the book's origins we have to be extremely careful when we go about interpreting what these things actually mean.

Interpreting Numbers in Scripture

It is really easy to take selected passages of scripture or series of scripture and translate them through our wooden or literal models to make things fit. Since the term “a thousand years” is used only in three places outside of these verses in chapter 20 of Revelation (psalm 90:40; ecclesiastes 6:6, and 2nd Peter 3:8 which we will address in a minute) I think it is important to try and get a sound understanding of the use of the term thousand by the Hebrew writers of scripture. First of all we know that numbers are often symbolic in scripture – especially in apocalyptic revelation. When it comes to the term thousand we need to know that it is used to represent a maximum or total number for the Hebrew writer. We might say a jillion in the US to represent such a number and so the best way to understand the use of thousand is to say it means the “total amount or number of a thing. Again, instead of using jillion the Jews used a thousand. LISTEN – it's a number that's not meant to be counted.

We see this played out in verses like Psalm 50:10 which says: “For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.” (Zealous Bible literalists would probably claim that we have to take this literally and if they didn’t we would have to ask how they have the right to pick and choose) But the line, “God owns the cattle on a thousand hills does not mean that cattle on all the hills over a thousand are not His, right?) Christ shall reign for a thousand years does not mean that Christ's kingdom will have this limited time. Quite the contrary! It means His kingdom will exist in numbers that were never meant to be counted.

When we read language like Isaiah that describes a time when the wolf and lamb will lay down side by side (and the lion and wolf will eat grass and cause no harm) we need to understand the Biblical use of metaphor and contrast. Literalist (like the illustrators for the colorful magazines I used to look at in my doctor's office) love to paint (and take) these expressions literally and use them to describe a future utopia but in reality they are merely word-pictures that denote the difference that Christ and the New Covenant can make in the lives of individuals and this world.

The Timeless Kingdom

Rather than fantasizing about some kind of Christianised utopia to come, we have to remember that Christ prayed to the Father that “His” would not be taken out of this world, but that we would be distinct from it. It is in and through these distinctions that we salt the earth, make it better, and contribute to the established Kingdom Christ rules and reigns over that is NOT of this world. The parables of the Kingdom teach advancement of the Kingdom through prayer, and preaching and persuasion which have occurred over the past 2000 years and will continue for who knows how long.

The “Millennium” is not about a future 1,000 year utopia but a present “timeless” reality where Christ rules and reigns in the hearts of people. There's no need to wait for a Millennium for Christ to reign. He reigns in the hearts of His people now. Interestingly enough, what Peter says in 2nd Peter 3:8 is often used to try and suggest that the idea of literal thousand year reign is a biblical reality. In actuality, Peter’s words support my position.

Representative Nature of Time

that a thousand years is representative not literal.

Listen to what Peter says:

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” This verse says NOTHING to support the idea of a literal millennium, though believers often resort to it to prove it does.

Here Peter uses the term 1000 years to represent all years, all time, and not literally a thousand years. And he uses extremes to prove that all measurements of time are irrelevant to how God relates to them. SO he writes “that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day,” so when people try to speak of a literal 1000 years as literal we have to ask them, could it really only be one day?

(beat)

The 144,000 in Revelation

Okay, let’s look at the 144,000 question. Revelation chapter 6 talks about the seven-sealed scroll. John separates the 1 through 6th seal from the 7th by inserting a “gracious interlude” into his narrative. This interlude is described in Revelation 7:1-8 and again, provides for a period of rest between the 6th and 7th seal. It is in this interlude that we read about “four angels” who temporarily hold back the “winds” and defer the destruction of the four destroying horsemen (Revelation 6:1–8).

Then another angel appears (Revelation 7:2) and commands: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads” (Revelation 7:3). The next verse, speaking of those who were sealed in this peaceful interlude between the sixth and seventh seal, says: “And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.” (Revelation 7:4) And of course this passage is fodder for every eschatological stance on earth, right?

Who are they? First of all, the space of peace between the sixth and seventh seal serves as an angelic interruption that pauses God’s judgment on Israel. The pause is NOT there for God to help Israel. Instead it was a brief period of time (a gap or space) where God allowed Jewish Christians to flee from Jerusalem while Vespasian is attending other matters (including the death of Nero and Roman Civil wars). Got all that?

Josephus, eyewitness and historian of the Jewish War with Rome reveals that a pause in the military operations did (in fact) occur. (Josephus, J.W. 4:9:2; 4:11:5). And when it did the “sealed” Christians trapped in Jerusalem had an opportunity to flee. Guess the number of Christians who escaped? WE DON'T KNOW!

Symbolism and The 144,000

But the number of 12 (as in twelve tribes of Israel) squared times the symbolic number of 1000 in scripture represents them. Support for this comes in the fact that we know

• the number 144,000 relates to the House of Israel (Revelation 7:4-8)
• That John calls them “the first-fruits” (in Revelation 14:4 – meaning the first-fruits of Christ’s church)
• That Christianity’s first converts come from Israel (the true remnant).
• That they are distinguished by John from “the great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues” (Revelation 7:9).
• That the Old Testament source (from which John draws his imagery) is Ezekiel 9:4, which clearly specifies they are from Jerusalem:

“The LORD said to him, ‘Go through the midst of the city, even through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations which are being committed in its midst.’”

• God protects them in “the Land” which is being judged (Revelation 7:1 and 14:3).
• It fits with Jesus telling his followers to flee Jerusalem before its overthrow and that those who are His will be protected (Matthew 24 and Luke 21) and finally, that the book of Revelation says (both at the beginning of the book and the end) that the events of it are to “shortly, quickly come to pass” including the saving of the significantly symbolic 144,000.

Let’s open up the phone lines: (801)

While the black ops are clearing your calls, please consider the following:

Swedish Fascination with Religion

Nice one, too. I am glad you have such a great impression of Sweden. I must say I like my country too. 🙂

If you would like my reasoning about why you have many Swedish fans, here is a quick and a spontaneous one. Sweden is a very secular society but there is yet a strong tradition of Protestant Christianity. Many people marry in the Swedish church (earlier state religion) and bury their loved ones in the church not necessarily believing in God.

Religious Curiosity in Sweden

Yet, most people have some idea about LDS people and JW because you see them at your door every now and then. And if you meet them somewhere else, you most often remember it, because it's just so unfamiliar, to most people in general. For me, and I would say for some others too, it became obvious and a more current issue with the last US election and Romney. That is so strange to me and I would say many other Swedes. Also with the latest Olympic Winter Games, where it was all filmed and such by a company owned by the LDS. There is a Christian party who barely made the 4% needed to be in the Swedish parliament, but they are regarded more as a conservative party than a religious one, at least by the people not voting for them.

I would say that many Swedes are fascinated about religion, especially the ones that have "strange" and conservative doctrines, since the Swedish church is very liberal with gay marriage, divorce and remarriage, openly gay people in gay relationships can be ordained and so on, and present and the last archbishop of the Swedish church is a woman.

I have, which most people do not do in Sweden, been talking (studying, JW would say I guess) to JW, inviting them into my home and been to a meeting (unfortunately I left the building with stronger opinions of brainwashing than I had before – the discussions in my home were really interesting). I had always planned that, since I am interested in religion and what I regard as cults, not because I wanted to join the congregation. And I have always said that I wanted to visit an LDS-church too, with the same purpose. So I am looking into it more in detail, which was when I found you on YouTube! 🙂 Since I am curious and fascinated, I study it in order to be able to see more details, in order to get a more wholesome impression and knowledge. I live in a town called Umeå (about 125,000 people including a large university with 30,000 students) and there is an LDS-church just a couple of kilometers away.

Personal Beliefs and Perspective

Myself, I do believe in what I regard as the foundation values of the Bible, like doing onto others …, not doing harm, being honest to myself and others, forgiving myself and others. I try to practice those values with awareness. But I do not do it because I feel a belief in God. But, I tend to say often in religious discussions, that if you are to believe in (a) God, you shouldn't believe she or he is an idiot. Many of the LDS and JW doctrines are as if God were stupid I think. It is not logical. And what is not logical according to and not in line with the foundation values (as I see it) is most often stupid I think.

Well, I hope you have enjoyed reading this. Maybe it gave a perspective on why many Swedes like your show. 🙂 Have a nice day! And if you, your family, or your staff would ever come to Umeå (elected European Capital of Culture 2014 amongst other nice things about the city), I would be glad to show you around! The work you have done with the show is a favor to me, and I would be most happy to return it. Since I do not feel a belief in God, I think I would say something like: may the teachings of Jesus give you joy in life. 🙂 Instead of God bless, I mean.

Hi Shawn,

I currently have been listening to your "Has Jesus returned?" series here and there at work. I find it really fascinating and am leaning very much so in the same position because it sounds very appealing to truth. (makes sense) You have a very respectable approach while teaching, and your loving heart is palpable. So I did a little research. Long story short, came across a word/title: Preterist

Questions:

1. Do you agree w/ PreterismThe belief that all biblical prophecy—especially “end times”—was fulfilled by 70 A.D. More to the fullest?

2. Has the Prophecies from Holy Bible that you and I both read (66 books) been fulfilled?

Through my research, I stumbled upon…

Exploring Beliefs in Eschatology

A debate "Futurist vs Preterist"
2 Christian Pastors dukin' it out w/ eschatologyStudy of “last things”—TGNN teaches all biblical eschatology was fulfilled in 70 A.D. More

We'll call the futurist: PASTOR F. and the preterist: PASTOR P. I agreed whole heartedly w/ PASTOR P's position UNTILL it came to the questioning portion of the debate. Where both opposing sides get to question each other (you know how a debate works). Pastor F. asked Pastor P. simple questions, and this is where a HUGE curve ball was thrown at me… Not only did it curve but it spiraled up, down, left, and right. Kind turning my mind into mush.

Questions About Today’s Existence of Demons and Jews

Pastor F. had asked Pastor P. I'm paraphrasing Are there demons today? does Lucifer still exist? Pastor P. answered NO – they are all destroyed. I found that answer to be strange, HUH???? Are they really all destroyed? so evils only been existing through man since 75AD? There has been NO demonic possessions since 80AD?

Then Pastor F. asked Pastor P.: Are there Jews today? Pastor P. answered NO they are just people who claim to be Jewish. PLEASE HELP ME SHAWN! My mind STILL feels like mush…Maybe with your answers we can make it solid again. THANK YOU Love you brother, MIKHAIL

Questions on Biblical Narratives and Afterlife

Hi Shawn,

I love the show and the information you keep bringing each week. Thanks for your research! I have a question for you:

In 1 Samuel 28, Saul seeks out a medium at Endor so he can get advice from Samuel who was dead at that time. The medium brought Samuel to Saul as a ghost. This has confused me a little bit because of the words that Samuel says, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" If Samuel was dead, wouldn't he have gone to heaven?

Something else that makes me wonder about this is how many instances in scripture it says that we are asleep when we die, or passages likening death to sleep. Other passages make note of being asleep in Christ. In light of the 70AD rapture view, I understood that all people before this rapture were asleep, waiting to be judged, but then again, some people teach that you go to heaven right after you die. Ugh, I'm getting confused explaining it.

What do you make of this?

Thanks, Aaron in Japan

Hi Shawn. On show episode 414 part 9 you quote that the only thing that came true in the list of end time prophecies was what Jesus said in Matthew 16:28

"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

In one way I guess you could think that Jesus must have had his 2nd coming before those who he was speaking to died. But when I read it again I can't help but wonder that Jesus is talking about his ascension to heaven and before they died they saw that happen.

Love your show and would like your thoughts.

James

Personal Journey and Faith Transition

From: Cindy

Subject: I know Jesus

Message Body:

Dear Shawn,

I wrote you awhile back and you replied. I had a question to ask you but in the meantime God has answered it. I just want you to know that I have learned so much through your program. Thank you for your great work. My good friend told me about you, so I have been watching and praying about what you have been saying. I just sent in my resignation letter to Salt Lake LDS headquarters. I just recieved the certified mail receipt today so SLS did receive it two days ago.

I have had doubts about the LDS church for 1 1/2 years, but just kind of ignored the promptings until recently. It all started up again when the LDS leaders would not allow women into the Priesthood session at conference and to become part of the priesthood. That lead to my next question about why LDS church had a ban on blacks not given priesthood for over 100 years. Then that lead to another question after question after question. I spent many long hours on my knees and to make a long story short I finely gave my everything up to The Lord and asked him to take over my life. I consider myself a born again Christian and I love my Lord. The Lord lead me to another church here in a Vegas. I am new as I have only lived here for 15 months. I was lead to a wonderful Lutheran church called Community Lutheran Church and I've watched the service live stream on Sundays for a year and now attend in person. I know this is long, but I just felt prompted to share with you my story. Many ex-mormons have witnessed to me through the internet like Lynn wilder and family, Lee Baker, Earl Erksin and…

The Concept of Dual Fulfillment in Prophecy

his wife, and you. Please keep me in your prayers Shawn as the Mormons in my ward here have no idea that I have left the fold. I was very active in the ward here until recently. Many Thanks.

P.S. I was told I would never be happy if I left LDS. Well, that's not true because I am very happy and at peace. God is so good isn't he?

Cindy Willoughby

Timing of Prophetic Fulfillment

Hey Shawn,

In many prophecies, there is a dual fulfillment. Neither Preterists nor Futurists seem to understand this. Some things prophesied in Matt. 24 and 25 were to take place in the near future, in THAT generation. Jesus was crucified somewhere in the 30s AD and Jerusalem was indeed destroyed by 70 AD. However, when Jesus said that "THIS generation" in Matt. 24:34, He did not mean "THAT generation" living at that time. Notice the words a few verses before: "So likewise ye [whoever the 'ye' will be when these things happen], when ye shall see ALL THESE THINGS, know that it is near, even at the doors" (Verse 33).

WHAT are "all THESE things?" Why all the things that he mentioned leading up to this point. And included are the "Sign of the Son of man in heaven," and the resurrection and gathering of the saints, etc. (Verse 30). Now THAT did not happen back in the first century AD. It is yet future. But the future generation who sees "ALL these things," that generation living at THAT time, shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled, including the coming of our Lord.

Signs of His Return

Notice that Jesus said there would be many things happening before He would return: Signs in the sun and moon (Matt 24:29); the sign of the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven (Ver. 30); angels gathering the elect at the sound of the trumpet (Ver. 31); the parable of the fig tree (Ver. 32). Now then, WHAT generation would not pass until our Lord Returns? The generation that Jesus was talking to in Matt. 24? NO. "THIS" generation–the generation that would see,

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, WHEN YE shall see ALL THESE THINGS, know that it is near, even at the doors.

It would be the generation that would "see ALL these things" mentioned in the previous verses, THAT would be the generation that will not pass until our Lord comes.

The word "this" in this verse is from the following words and notice how it can be translated:

G3778

???????, ???????, ??????, ???????

houtos houtoi haute? hautai

hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee

Including the nominative masculine plural (second form), nominative feminine singular (third form), and the nominative feminine plural, (fourth form). From the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), that is, this or THAT (often with the article repeated): – he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.

Ongoing Learning of Righteousness

I do not know Greek, but possibly Matt. 24:34 could be translated "THAT generation." Which generation? THAT one–the one which sees "ALL THESE THINGS," and no generation has yet seen "all of these things" come to pass. I think "THAT generation" would fit better due to the things that have not come to pass yet.

And lastly, if God's judgments already happened on the earth, then why haven't the inhabitants (all mankind) learned righteousness?

Isaiah 26:9-With my soul have I desired Thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek Thee early; for when Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

I think we both can agree that all mankind have not learned righteousness yet. God's Judgment begins with the believers:

1 Peter 4:17-For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Then when this evil age comes to an end, the elect/believers will judge the world of the unbelievers!:

1 Corinthians 6:2-Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Then the consummation:

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 – 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Understanding Grace for All

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God is going to be ALL in ALL! God bless you Shawn! Check out bible-truths.com!

God's Peace,
Jordan from Carlsbad, CA

Questions about Christ's Universality

How do we know that Christ's / God's gift of grace is for all and not just the Jews? As the Bible is a book of, for, and by the Jews. It seems even the second coming, and the great destruction of life surrounding it was only for the Jews.

Thanks,
Thomas

Perspectives on Faith and Scripture

From: Jessica Walker

Subject: Some questions about the Bible and Jesus

Message Body:

I left Mormonism about 2 years ago. Before I left, I was having experiences with a different Jesus than was being taught to me in Mormonism and it was causing me confusion. I definitely loved this other Jesus much more than the Mormon Jesus, because He loved me and my husband unconditionally. So, when I finally came upon the historical and scientific problems with Mormonism it was easy to leave, especially since my husband had been ready for a long time. Once I left the Mormon church I had to question everything, including the Bible and Jesus himself. I really want to think that Jesus is really what the Bible claims him to be, but when I see how many scientific problems there are with the Bible, I see no real physical, Bible-like miracles in the world (like people being raised from the dead after being completely dead for 3 days or the splitting of the Red Sea, etc) and then I listened to people confessing that God told them another religion like Islam was His one true path, not Christianity and Muslims have their Bible-like book too. I then lost faith in the Bible. I'm saying these things with pure hearted intentions. Are there good answers for these questions of mine?

I also don't understand a God that would throw people away because they didn't confess faith in Him. Doesn't he care more about the intentions of their hearts, not their beliefs? If I am a good person that believes in Christian principles, but doesn’t know if Jesus is really the one true God, is God, according to the Bible, going to send me to Hell? This makes no sense to me. Because isn’t God all loving? If he sent a good person to hell, doesn’t this contradict him being a loving God? I guess I would just like to hear someone’s thoughts on these questions. I mean no ill will. I am asking these questions with honest intentions. I just want to hear the view of a true Christian on these matters.

If anyone has the time to respond to these questions, I would love to hear from them. I have never had a chance to hear from a true Christian before and would like to hear their perspective.

Sincerely,
Jessica Walker

Musical Inspiration and Witnessing

From: Kenny Oliver

Subject: Music used as intro

Message Body:

Love your show! I also really like the intros to your videos. Can you send me the name and musician and song you play? A little admission here: When I watch your show especially the intro, it makes me want to leave everything and walk the country with a stack of Gospel tracts and my KJV Bible till the Lord takes me. Seriously! I get a good twinge in my heart!

The next time I drive through the "Mecca of Mormonism" on my way to Wyo to whack a critter I hope to schedule time to do a Gospel tract walk for a couple of miles while there.

Yesterday, I was at one of my hideouts here in Ca (Middle Bar Bridge, Amador/Calaveras Co.) when two carloads of young teenaged men pulled up and got out to go for a hike. The leader, an older man, was in Boy Scout uniform but several of the youngsters had LDS name badges on. I stand on the bridge and play my shofar and they liked that. I also referred to the Bible and "trumpets" to explain my shofar. I was friendly only, and answered questions. I have learned how to witness to LDS by you, especially with the mission kids and those on the bridge yesterday. In times past I may have gotten into an argument with them or been…

Reflection on Grace

Instead I have been kind, and an example hopefully for one of those souls one day to remember back to when they met the crazy dude on the bridge with a bible and a horn and how much fun he was and the apparent grace he must enjoy…… :)…. I did leave some Gospel tracts on their cars when I left…….. 🙂

Words of Gratitude

Love you guys, God bless you, and thank you for your ministry.

Signature

Kenny Oliver

Lodi Ca