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Okay, at chapter 18, 19 and 20 we enter back into the “wild world of Old Testament events” and the content of them brings for some issues that are taken in a variety of ways – some that work and make biblical sense and others that fail but appear to make sense too.
We are going to actually read through chapter 18-19 because they present to us the story of Sodom and Gomorrah and in the telling of it we discover a number of different topics that need addressing. These topics include
Sarah laughing (vs Abraham)
Sodom and Gomorrah (which introduces a whole bunch of topics
“Bargaining with God”
Lot? (I mean, LOT?) what the heck is that boy doing?
Lots wife turning back and experiencing a mighty change
And a third bad decision made thus far in the text where desperate souls make rash choices that ultimately wind up coming back to bite them – and to bite them really hard.
However, before we can get into all of this, I think we need to take a moment and hit a subject head-on as a means to confront the ideas of Man relative to biblical proofs – and that is in discussing the nature of the three angels that appear in chapter 18.
Trust me, looking out to next weeks teaching we need to get this both under our belts and behind us.
To do this, and to set the stage for our study of the other six topics I just mentioned, let’s take a moment and actually read though the entire text of chapter 18-19 together.
Ready?
1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favor in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
9 And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
15 Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
23 Then Abraham drew near, and said, “Wilt thou indeed destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24 Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; wilt thou then destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous who are in it?
25 Far be it from thee to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from thee! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 And the LORD said, “If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”
27 Abraham answered, “Behold, I have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes.
28 Suppose five of the fifty righteous are lacking? Wilt thou destroy the whole city for lack of five?” And he said, “I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there.”
29 Again he spoke to him, and said, “Suppose forty are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of forty I will not do it.”
30 Then he said, “Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak. Suppose thirty are found there.” He answered, “I will not do it, if I find thirty there.”
31 He said, “Behold, I have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord. Suppose twenty are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of twenty I will not destroy it.”
32 Then he said, “Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of ten I will not destroy it.”
33 And the LORD went his way, when he had finished speaking to Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place.
Then to Chapter 19
Genesis 19:1 The two angels came to Sodom in the evening; and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed himself with his face to the earth,
2 and said, “My lords, turn aside, I pray you, to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise up early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the street.”
3 But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house;
5 and they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.”
6 Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him,
7 and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly.
8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.”
9 But they said, “Stand back!” And they said, “This fellow came to sojourn, and he would play the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them.” Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and drew near to break the door.
10 But the men put forth their hands and brought Lot into the house to them, and shut the door.
11 And they struck with blindness the men who were at the door of the house, both small and great, so that they wearied themselves groping for the door.
12 Then the men said to Lot, “Have you any one else here? Sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or any one you have in the city, bring them out of the place;
13 for we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it.”
14 So Lot went out and said to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, “Up, get out of this place; for the LORD is about to destroy the city.” But he seemed to his sons-in-law to be jesting.
15 When morning dawned, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Arise, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the punishment of the city.”
16 But he lingered; so the men seized him and his wife and his two daughters by the hand, the LORD being merciful to him, and they brought him forth and set him outside the city.
17 And when they had brought them forth, they said, “Flee for your life; do not look back or stop anywhere in the valley; flee to the hills, lest you be consumed.”
18 And Lot said to them, “Oh, no, my lords;
19 behold, your servant has found favor in your sight, and you have shown me great kindness in saving my life; but I cannot flee to the hills, lest the disaster overtake me, and I die.
20 Behold, yonder city is near enough to flee to, and it is a little one. Let me escape there–is it not a little one? –and my life will be saved!”
21 He said to him, “Behold, I grant you this favor also, that I will not overthrow the city of which you have spoken.
22 Make haste, escape there; for I can do nothing till you arrive there.” Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23 The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar.
24 Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 and he overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.
26 But Lot’s wife behind him looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.
27 And Abraham went early in the morning to the place where he had stood before the LORD;
28 and he looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and toward all the land of the valley, and beheld, and lo, the smoke of the land went up like the smoke of a furnace.
29 So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley, God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in which Lot dwelt.
30 Now Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the hills with his two daughters, for he was afraid to dwell in Zoar; so he dwelt in a cave with his two daughters.
31 And the first-born said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of all the earth.
32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring through our father.”
33 So they made their father drink wine that night; and the first-born went in, and lay with her father; he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.
34 And on the next day, the first-born said to the younger, “Behold, I lay last night with my father; let us make him drink wine tonight also; then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve offspring through our father.”
35 So they made their father drink wine that night also; and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.
36 Thus both the daughters of Lot were with child by their father.
37 The first-born bore a son, and called his name Moab; he is the father of the Moabites to this day.
38 The younger also bore a son, and called his name Benammi; he is the father of the Ammonites to this day.
Okay, let’s go back to chapter 18 verse 1 and work forward. After all the talk and acts of circumcision we now move on to another event, and verses 1-3 read
1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he (Abraham) sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favor in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
Interestingly, and confusingly, we have yet another set of passages where the scripture plainly states
“And the LORD (YHWH) appeared unto Abraham.”
I mean come on! No man has seen YHWH according to Jesus so what is going on??
Notice too that three men appeared to Abram but when He speaks He only refers to singular Lord and not Lords!
So what is going on?
The answer is super simple, folks, but it gets complicated by men who want to make it fit their respective views of things.
Listen – I am going to put it plainly as I can, to a Hebrew, messengers of God (called angels but they are messengers, heavenly and earthly) are seen as God himself – whether there is a thousand angels or three men.
Again, to a Hebrew, messengers of God are YHWH himself
Remember this! Why? Living today we have some devout men – scholarly and influential men, who use this very story to illustrate what they believe is the reality of the man-made creed called, The Trinity.
Their argument goes like this:
No one has ever seen God at anytime (which they say means, no one has ever seen God the Father at anytime therefore since we read that God visited Abraham here then it MUST be a visitation of the pre-incarnate Jesus.
This is the leap our brothers James White takes and Michael Brown take.
Please my friends, because we seek to worship God in spirit and truth, please think about the reasoning.
And let’s asks ourselves a few questions, like, “why do the visits in the Old Testament of God to man always have to be preincarnate Jesus” (who is the second person of the Holy Trinity and a spirit in that day) and NOT the Holy Spirit, (who is the THIRD PERSON of the Holy Trinity and a spirit also in that day (and still today?)
I don’t know why it couldn’t be the Holy Spirit but ALL Trinitarians teach that ALL the Old Testament visits of God to Man must be Jesus!
If we just stop and think about it, Jesus of Nazareth, who hadn’t incarnated yet, is up in heaven with two other persons that make the One God but He is always the one to come down and be seen but the other two cannot?
So, we have God the Father, God
the Son and God the Holy Spirit who are
quote, co-equal, co-eternal, uncreated persons as separate as the Manny Moe and Jack, but we read Exodus 33 where the living God says to Moses
You cannot not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
But they decide that in the Old Testament that God is SEEN but only in preincarnate visits by the Son. Not the Father. Not the Holy Spirit. Only the Son.
This is their choice of which person visits. And it makes sense to us, sort of naturally because the Son, who we see as coming from above before birth, became flesh. And so this is taught but without any merit or support other than their logic and need to sustain the eternality of the Son in person form.
But ask yourself – Why do Trinitarians think you can see the pre-incarnate Jesus and live, who is co-equal to the Father . . . co equal! but they can’t see God the Father in live? Or that this isn’t the Holy Spirit?
Is Jesus somehow inferior in some weird
kind of way even though God the
Father and God the Son are supposed to
be co-equal and have all the same
qualities that makes the one God “God?”
It’s game playing folks, pure and simple, and it is not supported by scripture. I’ll show you how in a minute.
So I want to challenge the way you have been formatted to think and to let your mind conform to the word which plainly tells us that it was God in Jesus of Nazareth reconciling the World to Himself, that it was His very Word that was in Jesus of Nazareth born of a woman and that His very Word became incarnate, and that it is CONTRARY to scripture for these Old Testament depictions given us by Trinitarians to be a pre-incarnate picture of Jesus.
Turn to Hebrews 1:1-2 and think. Ready?
Let’s read it together.
1 In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
If God had been speaking to us in the Old Testament through His Son the writer of Hebrews couldn’t and wouldn’t say this, would He? In fact, I think the writer would have clearly said something like,
In days past and today God spoke to us by His Son – but no! That is not what we read at all.
But standard Christian fare in passages like what we are reading here in Genesis 18 continue to claim that it was Jesus on the mountain speaking to Abraham when he was offering up Isaac, that it was Jesus giving the Law to Moses on Mount Sinai, that it was Jesus speaking to Moses in Exodus 33 and that it was Jesus here in Genesis 18 standing with Abraham (along with two others).
Hebrews 1:1 completely rules all of those options out and every rational and honest person knows the Hebrews writer would have no reason to write this IF Jesus was a second person in His preincarnate state speaking to Abraham and the Nation of Israel and its prophets.
Worse yet, the first two passages in Hebrews would be considered wrong.
And again, there is a great problem if we admit that Exodus 33 is true and nobody can see God and live but the preincarnate person called the Son, who trinitarians claim has all the qualities of God, is co-equal to His Father can.
In Genesis 18 (and 19, which contains the story of Sodom and Gomorrah) we have to see what is described as a Hebrew would see the world and its relationship to the living, invisible, incomprehensible fire we call God.
And it is not Jesus manifesting himself which is contrary to logic and scripture but is just the basic fact that messengers of God, often called angels, were seen as direct and fully authoritative representations of Him.
Simple as that. When they were seen, people saw YHWH. When they spoke, YHWH spoke.
And in this vein we have no need to play any other games to justify these appearances as the preincarnate second person of the man-made Trinity.
So, re-read the first three passages with me with this in mind:
1 And the LORD (YHWH here) appeared unto him (Abraham) in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; (How did YHWH who cannot be seen by any man and live appear to Abraham? – verse 2)
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, (not YHWH but my master, a common greeting to humans in that day of others) if now I have found favor in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
James White and Michael Brown conveniently and romantically say that one of these three visitors is Jesus! And people pass it along not caring about knowing them in spirit and truth with is life eternal.
What does Abraham do in response to seeing these three men? Let’s read verses 3-8
3 And (Abraham) said, My Lord, (Adonai) if now I have found favor in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
Now, because Abraham says, My Lord, (singular) it is proposed that of the three He was speaking only to preincarnate Jesus, but we can see as we read that he is speaking to all three of the messengers. Notice too what he offers them – water, food, rest, foot washing – all things a person would offer messengers, even human messengers, and not things that we would offer a God or persons of God.
4 Let a little water, I pray you, (again, seems singular) be fetched, and wash your feet, (but then he says) and rest yourselves (plural) under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort you your hearts; (plural) after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant.
Because of this we can see that he was addressing all of them as one, that the three were in human form, as heavenly messengers are capable of assuming, and Abraham was being hospitable to them. Last line of five
And they said, “So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a good and tender calf and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
Two things – first, how did they eat? If human or angelic messengers appearing as human, I guess they could eat. As God himself, in one or all three of His forms, can’t say – I guess they could eat too.
Second, you might be tempted to believe that these men were literally the persons of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, disguised as men – that is more reasonable than to game play it only being the preincarnate Jesus – but the rules still apply – nobody can see God and live, and so these representations, these messengers, even these angels, bore all the authority of God, and represented Him but were NOT Him in EITHER FATHER SON OR HOLY SPIRIT.
Now listen to verses 9 and 10 – which at first run can be confusing as to who is speaking – ready?
9 And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he (Abraham) said, Behold, in the tent.
10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
Why the difference in plurals and singularities?
I suggest that in verse 9, they (the men messengers) were conversing as men, eating and asking questions but in verse 10, YHWH is speaking in and through them authoritatively and as if He was there in person. And the messengers continue to speak authoritatively here, as Moses writes
11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”
13 And the LORD (YHWH – through the authorized messengers) said unto Abraham, “Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.”
Apparently, Sarah, who was in the tent either called out or stepped out and (verse 15)
15 Then Sarah denied, saying, “I laughed not;” for she was afraid. And he said, “Nay; but thou didst laugh.”
We will cover this laughter next week but the fact of the matter was, these messengers, representing invisible YHWH, possessed the capacity to read hearts, and this terrified Sarah.
Verse 16-22 – let’s read and I will comment as we go:
16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
Now, in contradistinction from the men we read
17 And the LORD (YHWH) said, (apparently to himself or through the men between each other as they walked) Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Then YHWH speaks at verse 20
20 And the LORD said, (YHWH now out-loud through the messengers, and we know this because Abraham will then engage with the Lord to try and mitigate the circumstance – and the LORD said,) “Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
22 And the men (messengers/angels) turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
We can easily get conflicted by all of this because we have the men walking, YHWH talking, the men changing course, and then YHWH saying that “He was now going to go down,” and then Abraham standing still before YHWH after the men turned toward Sodom!
Admittedly, the whole thing gets pretty confusing. But its really not. If you simply remember how the Jews saw YHWH relative to the messengers of YHWH.
To add to the complexity, we now read a division of the three messengers -with two of the men (or messengers or angels) going on to Sodom but one of them, who AGAIN ALSO – AGAIN ALSO – represented YHWH, remaining behind.
All three represented YHWH – which we will prove – the two that went to Sodom and the one that remained behind, but this division causes White and Brown to say that the one that remained behind was again, the preincarnate Jesus.
This is called, “eisegesis” in theological terms meaning that they read into the text of what they want to see instead of reading out of the text what it says.
I have been and can be guilty of it too as it is very natural for humans to do this.
But where on earth do they justifiably assume all of this and teach that of the three it was preincarnate Jesus that remained behind?
Tradition followed by confirmational bias.
In any case, White and Brown now say “but one stayed behind with Abraham and that it’s Jesus because it reads that Abraham was still standing before Yahweh and since nobody can see YHWH and live it must be Him.”
And then we read that YHWH said the outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah is indeed
great and their sin is exceedingly grave and that He would now go down.
Listen, Sodom is along the Dead Sea the lowest point on the face of the earth and the saying, “to go down to Sodom” is as ubiquitous in scripture as people saying that they would “go up to Jerusalem.”
So how does that happen? How does YHWH going down to Sodom? It happens when the men turned away from there and went towards Sodom! In other words, Yahweh going down to Sodom is equal to the two men/messengers/angels going down to Sodom and Lot meeting them at the gate.
Again, speaking the Words of YHWH to a Jew was equal to YHWH speaking!
Remember what Jesus said about the things that he said? He said, “my words aren’t my own. I only speak what the Father gives me to say. My words are not my own but He who sent me.” In other words, my words are not from myself. Neither were the words of the messengers of themselves. They were YHWH speaking.
Jesus meant the same thing when He said, “If you have seen me you have seen the Father!”
Same with other messengers in the Old Testament – to see them WAS to a JEW to see YHWH. To hear them speak was to hear YHWH speak.
Before the father spoke through Jesus He, does the same thing through these angels/messengers/men. Again, to a Jewish mind they are more than just a representative of Yahweh they ARE YHWH representing the character, mind and will of Him – and this is why messengers in the Old Testament are literally referred to as the LORD (all caps).
When we see the word “angels” we can’t forget that this word means
messenger and they’re Yahweh’s
messengers who represented him.
And when Yahweh says, “I will go down now,” the way that is played out is that these two men on behalf of YHWH go down to Sodom.
So, we can say, “YHWH went going to Sodom as two messengers and also, YHWH, the other messenger, remained with Abraham.
We can say that the two messenger that went to Sodom were YHWH because in Genesis 19:13-14 we read THEM say
For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city.
Again, verse 14 has Lot say that YHWH would destroy the city but in verse 13 the angel/messenger/men say that they would. This perfectly supports the way a Jew would see things.
So, when we come to verse 24, where it says,
24 Then YHWH rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from YHWH out of heaven;
We have a conflict with verse 13 if we are literalists, right, because the two messengers said that THEY would destroy Sodom but verse 24 says that YHWH would!!
Again, while it reads that YHWH rained on Sodom and Gomorrah Trinitarians ignore that it was the angels that did it and that the Jews saw this AS YHWH himself.
It is really that simple.
So it is very clear at Genesis 18:22 (where it says Abraham was still standing before YHWH) that Abraham is still standing before one of these three men/messengers/angels identified as Yahweh just like the two are seen by Lot as YHWH too!
And we had to get all of this in place before we go back next week and revisit the contents of chapters 18 and 19 and 20 verse by verse.
Questions/Comments
PRAYER
Genesis 18.1-22
November 20th 2022
