Fear & Trembling

Heart of the Matter

Live from Salt Lake City, this is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology., where we do all we can to worship God in Spirit and in truth . . . And I’m your host, Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion.. Let’s begin with a prayer.

PRAYER

You know something kind of interesting? When I came out of Mormonism I landed and even was trained by Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa. And when I was in the midst of school there I was offered the opportunity to create and host this show on live television here in Utah and parts of Idaho and Wyoming. And after we were on the air for a couple months a group of esteemed men at Calvary Chapel critiqued the show and do you know what their first bit of advice for me was . . .?? Don’t take the time to pray. Just get right into it. Pray before but don’t pray with the audience watching.

I’ve gotta tell you that advice went into my heart like a chicken bone would go down the throat – and I realized very early on I had to make decisions myself on how to do things. Why? It was the only way to retain personal integrity with God. I think there have been two or three shows were we have failed to pray – and I believe God has honored the practice by giving us insights into content that would not otherwise have. Anyway, just an insight from the past.

The Absence of a Christian Church Consumer Reports

Have you ever heard of a magazine called, Consumer Reports? It is an American Magazine that has been published since 1936 that is dedicated to unbiased product testing, consumer oriented research, public education and advocacy. The circulation is over 3 and half million and people around the world check in with them when it comes to hearing what they have to say about thousands upon thousands of products and services. It’s really pretty cool, has taken a lot of time, money and energy to produce and its primarily focused on . . . products and services. We have similar ratings and ranking companies for Colleges and Universities, businesses themselves, publicly traded companies, and civil liberties and the like.

I’ve gotta question for you? Where is the Christian church consumer reports? I mean, people dedicate so much of their time, energy, focus and support to these religious institutions – and there isn’t any external third-party watchdog group out there that takes these guys to task. Listen – I am giving some enterprising person a billion dollar idea here that would actually do some good along the way.

Don’t think I haven’t considered doing it myself. In fact, that is what I pretty much am – a reporter for the Christian Church Consumer Reports as I look around, read the Bible, and narc out the predators out there who are in the game of religious chicanery. Years ago I bought the rights to a website called Check my Church, but I was never free enough to develop it. And I’m frankly not sure I ever will be with my hands in the production of a new Apostolic Record. But one of you could do it.

An Open Call

I realized this recently when a brother, a former Mormon who created his own branding of Youtube approach against the LDS church (and is therefore somewhat a popular figure among former Mormons) started really pushing his allegiance for YET ANOTHER organized, man-made, chest crossing, Mary praying, insense burning, ornate building making, robe wearing religion.

I have zero problem with him personally joining this faith but when he takes his publicly established influence among former Mormons and campaigns for them to now join him in yet another Man-made faith, it was too much – and it was time to call the Christian Church Consumer Reports . . . but there was none to call. So how about it, you guys and gals. Anyone out there want to create a web-based consumer group that vets all Christ-claiming churches?

Like my friend Michael said, it would be like a Trip Advisor for Hotels or a Yelp for restaurants . . . but much much more. And the way to monetize it will play right into the heart of these religionists. Someday, if I live long enough, I’ll do it. But I welcome anyone else to step up and do it themselves because this WORLD needs it. Email me if you are inclined – shawn@alatheamedia.com and we can talk. But it must be neutral and based solely on facts – which is what will make it reliable . . . and really dangerous.

Paul's Concern for the Corinthians

to those preying on others in the name of Jesus.

In any case, I am totally tied up in the production and creation of the TVAR and I can’t tell you how much we appreciate your support. And if you ARE a supporter and have not yet received a first run sample copy of the Gospel of Mark, write me and tell me so. We will get one out to you ASAP.

We'll I’m going to share a bit of a deep concept with you tonight – it’s a challenging concept and one that requires some real introspection as a Christian. It’s gonna take me a minute to set up, so here we go.

In 2nd Corinthians 7, Paul has been worried about the church at Corinth because of his earlier instructions to them (found in 1st Corinthians) and how they were to treat a man involved with his dad’s wife. Meeting Titus in Macedonia, Paul was informed that the believers at Corinth took his instructions to heart. And this pleased Paul, and among other things, he writes at verse 8 what initially sounds like a kind of confusing admission, saying:

8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle had made you sorry, though it were but for a season.

Understanding Repentance

Let’s look at the words repent here. The word for “changing the mind” about a matter in the Greek is “metano-eh-o.” The word used here is a form of it, and it is “met-am-el-omahee” and it best means “to care later” and/or “to regret.” This word is only used four times in the Apostolic Record whereas metano-eh-o is used repeatedly.

I say this because I think we can change the KJV verbiage to read “regret” here and not only be correct but make comprehension easier. So . . .

8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not regret it, (it was the proper instruction that the bride at Corinth needed, painful as it was) though I did regret it: (because I hated to cause you pain, and he adds) “for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.”

Make sense? Isn’t this how it is in ministry? You are required by the Spirit of Truth to speak truth, even though we know the truth can be painful to hear, and this pains us, but we know that sharing the truth is good and right and that the pain inflicted will only last for a season.

The ability to speak painful truths to others and NOT lose their respect is greatly enhanced when the recipient knows you love them – which is why I think Paul is continually reminding them that they are loved by him.

The Importance of Love and Correction

But it’s almost a guarantee that if a person does not feel loved by a critic, the criticism will fall on hard ground. Paul was in this position of having to be an apostle of the “Lord of Love” to them, and while trying to ensure that they knew he loved them, correct them at the same time. So it seems that after he wrote them 1st Corinthians (and chided them for some failures) and then went to Macedonia, he worried in his heart that what he had written had caused them to hate him.

And since he really did love them and care for them, this greatly troubled him – internally. The arrival of Titus and the news he gave him greatly alleviated his fears – and this seems to be what he is saying here. And so he adds – at verse 9:

9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

Herein lies the big difference in Christian counseling – will it just make people sorry (that they heard it in the first place or even went to the pastor) or does the counsel received cause them to have what Paul calls, “sorrow unto repentance, unto the change of mind, or as Paul says completely,

“for ye were made sorry after a Godly manner, that ye (or causing you) to not receive any sort of damage from us?

And this introduces us to a really vital point all of us have to learn which Paul now summarizes in verse

Godly Sorrow vs. Worldly Sorrow

10, saying:

10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God..

I’ve written this on the board because it is really a vital topic for Christian parents, youth leaders, and pastors. Let’s consider how some other translations present this passage:

(BBE) For the sorrow which God gives is the cause of salvation through a change of heart, in which there is no reason for grief: but the sorrow of the world is a cause of death.

(DBY) For grief according to God works repentance to salvation, never to be regretted; but the grief of the world works death.

(MNT) For your pain came from God, and so you took no harm from me. For the pain which is from God works repentance leading to salvation, a repentance never to be regretted. But the world's pain works death.

These translational reiterations give us some perspective and clarity on the verse. From it, we can assume a few principles:

Characteristics of Godly Sorrow

(ON BOARD):

• When SORROW is from God

• The result is a repentance

• That leads to salvation.

• Which is never regretted over.

• But there is a certain result

• off sorrow that is from, in, or by the World

• It’s death.

Personally, this passage is extremely important and meaningful as I have had a life of people bringing me sorrow that has only led to death – death of respect, of hope, of relationships, of religious associations – but I have also had the great blessing to have repented countless times due to the sorrow from God, and for which I have never had regret.

The Fine Line Between Godly and Worldly Sorrow

Not only this, and much more regrettably, I have been greatly guilty of using worldly ways on people and creating worldly sorrow in them too, which has also led to death in them. What is the difference between Godly sorrow and worldly sorrow? It can be such a fine, fine, fine line, and because so it is fine, well-meaning humans often cross over it – and make a mess of things.

So let’s first discuss the first five principles here that Paul offers:

• When SORROW is from God
• The result is a repentance
• That leads to salvation.
• Which is never regretted over.

Let’s say that we are on a path of stealing hubcaps from cars at night. No let’s make it more salacious, we are sleeping with our neighbor's wife. One evening, as we are skulking away from the house, the Spirit of God moves in on us and explains in detail how offensive this is to God, to His light, His Goodness, to fairness, and to his neighbors – including her, their children, and her husband. It reveals to us that if we get caught, our reputations in the community, and with our children, will be tarnished too. And it also reveals that these crimes do have ripple effects that can play out badly for decades and even centuries to come.

We are also reminded by the Spirit that amidst such criminality God still loves us, that He will never leave us, and that we remain His – even in the presence of our sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace.. And then we ignore all. A keep the relationship sexually vibrant. The Spirit returns. We may even get found out. But the message and the delivery is the same – kind, peaceable, gentle . . . because it is in the hands of God through His Spirit.

In time, it will in many cases be the love and longsuffering of God – the goodness of God – that leads to repentance, which leads to salvation, which, because it is from the heart, is never regretted. This sample is just one of millions and I have made the case egregious – but the principles remain – the gentle, loving, peaceable, kind, longsuffering sorrow from God leads to repentance which never leads to regret.

This is the Christian sorrow that comes from God and because it comes from Him by His Spirit it can eventually produce Godly sorrow, leading, as Paul says, to Salvation, and will never be regretted but instead will be rejoiced in and over, with gratitude that God took the time to correct us, guide us, and wait to gently move us to change our minds. The fact that Paul says that such sorrow results in repentance, which leads salvation should not be a surprise.

Implications of Unrepented Sin

Remember, Paul is writing to believers. So the implication is that unrepented of sin can lead to a loss of salvation. Contextually speaking, it is not the specific sin that leads to such a loss, but it is…

The Concept of Godly Sorrow

The specific sin that can lead to a loss of faith wherein salvation would be lost. Cannot forget this caveat and nuance. But the point is, when God, by the Spirit, causes the sorrow in us, this is fantastic sorrow, and it results in actual repentance, or change, which is from the heart, and leads to salvation, and nobody experiencing such can regret it. This is the sorrow that leads to life, and therefore it is a wonderful thing.

Paul here were in the position of delivering instructions to the church at Corinth which caused them sorrow, which he did not regret – but then did – because he feared that it would cause in them a sorrow unto death – the death of their relationship with him, perhaps with each other, and worst of all with Christ, and therefore God – which would be the ultimate form of death.

In other words, Paul worried that his approach to bringing them sorrow was the kind the world gives – which are summarized with its results in the last three points:

• But the certain result
• of sorrow from or in or by the World . . .
• Is death.

The Worldly Sorrow and Its Results

That the believers at Corinth did, in fact, receive his advice proves that God was in it and that He did work in and through Paul’s efforts to redirect them. Most of us have been on both the receiving end, and on the giving end, of the kind of “sorrow that comes from, in or by the World.” Unlike the longsuffering love and kind gentleness that patiently comes from God, the sorrow that comes from the world is of course the opposite: It is harsh, attacking, condemnatory, rude, impetuous, personal, guilt and fear laden, and at times extremely severe and manipulative.

Some of it can work in producing immediate results – and this is what our penal system is built upon. But if God is not working hand in hand with the worldly tactics, the result is often death, just like Paul says – which could mean the death of the soul, the death of the heart, or the death of faith, hope and love in the recipient. Unfortunately, some religious approaches to the sins of the flesh, meted out by religious men and women, appeal to the sorrow that the world gives – and the end result is that this approach kills the recipient.

I remember being chided one too many times by religious leaders as a youth. One was particularly mean-spirited and condemnatory of me throughout my teen years. I saw right through him pretty quickly and was not in the least interested in hearing what he had to say. Ever. In the end, the result of his worldly religious tactics was death – between us and his own death which I played out over and over in my mind. This is what happens when we use the ways and tools of the world on others in our fleshly attempts to make them experience sorrow.

“Just look what you’ve done.” “What do you think God thinks of you?” “How could you do that?” And on and on – with most of it aimed at making them feel bad. But the end result, as Paul promises, will be the death . . .

Between parents and children People and the law Congregates and preachers. Humans and church.

The Fruit of the Spirit and Godly Love

The goal is to learn to help use the fruit of the Spirit and all that it entails in our efforts to direct people back to the ways of God without creating “the sorrow that leads to death.” Again, this comes first by and through them KNOWING that we love them. If there is any inking that love is lacking, there will be a much higher failure rate, of real sorrow or real repentance . . . and the only real thing will be the death of something.

It’s not a mistake that the first word in describing the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE. By going to Paul’s description then of love, in 1st Corinthians 13, we are provided with a template on what our interactions, directives, advices, and conversations with others – our fellow Christian, our family, our neighbors – ought to look like, IF (or since) we want to create in them a Godly sorrow and not a worldly one.

For this reason alone I am backing way away from disgracebook – it does not allow for “the flourishment and promotion of Godly sorrow” in people but only worldly – which leads to death (or in the case of Disgracebook) blocking and

Godly Sorrow Versus Worldly Sorrow

Unfriending.

Okay. Got all of that? It’s important stuff even today. But now at verse 11, Paul begins to talk about how the Corinthians received his instructions by God, and that this is evidenced in their response to it, saying:

11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter. I mean, he seems to say, just look at your own example! He states. “That you sorrowed in the Godly way. And then in a somewhat poetic fashion he describes the way that Godly way was manifested in them, saying:

• what carefulness it wrought in you, yea,
• what clearing of yourselves, yea,
• what indignation, yea,
• what fear, yea,
• what vehement desire, yea,
• what zeal, yea,
• what revenge!

This is really interesting – I hope you caught it. In verse 10 he writes of Godly sorrow leading to repentance and then salvation but adds that the sorrow induced by the world only leads to death, right?

The Paradox of Godly Sorrow

But here he tells the believers at Corinth that in their example of following his advice it produced Indignation? Fear? Zeal and Revenge? What the heck is this all about? The implications are in direct conflict with the principles of Godly sorrow described in verse ten and frankly sound more like the tools of the world and flesh that he is applauding in them – So let’s work through these words/statements carefully (but quickly). He begins by saying “For behold or look at this selfsame thing – at the working of Godly Sorrow in your lives, and he adds, “that ye sorrowed after a godly sort!” and not the sort of the world. And then he exclaims (referring to them) what carefulness EAGERNESS what clearing of yourselves, <apologia) ANSWER IN SELF-DEFENSE what indignation, INDIGNATION (resentment, anger, discontent) what fear, Yes, FEAR! what vehement desire, LONGING FOR what zeal, FERVENT HEAT what revenge ! VINDICATION. RETRIBUTION. PUNISHMENT

In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter. These paradoxical passages blow my mind. I mean, what is Paul saying or trying to make? Do these things he just mentioned lead to Godly sorrow? Or are we missing something – is it lost in translation? We are left today with a decision to make folks.

The Example of the Corinthians

First of all, in verse 10, Paul seems to speak of the type of sorrow that works to repentance – and in accordance with the Holy Spirit we know that such sorrow is the result, since it is Godly, of love and all of its manifestation. But then in verse 11, his praise for them and their response to his directives sounds like praise for worldly approaches and reactions, including punishment, revenge, fear and indignation! WHAT THE WHAT?

Are we supposed to seek to help bring Godly sorrow to others that will lead to repentance and salvation in their lives by love or are we to respond to others and their problems with hearts set on these lesser characteristics. And are these extremely exacting words (which, by the way, have little room for reinterpretation) supposed to be at work in the individual believers and pastors and churches around the world today like they obviously were in the believers at the church at Corinth?

Are we supposed to embrace . . .

“EAGERNESS, SELF-DEFENSE, INDIGNATION, A FEAR OF GOD, A LONGING FOR, WITH FERVENT HEAT, VINDICATION, RETRIBUTION and PUNISHMENT? (obviously of others)?

Now, there are plenty of people who do, in fact, approach the faith and others in it this way. They are all over the place and they live the faith in these very attitudes – from the extremes of the Westboro Baptists and in the lesser realms of the regular old fundamentalists.

First of all, these things are in the Bible. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles did write them and we do read them today. Because of this they trouble me personally to no end (initially) because I would rather, by the Spirit in me, die then live my life in the faith through such attitudes. But, they are here and they must be taken into consideration.

So wherein lies the solution? I would suggest that in that day, that these attitudes that Paul is praising, were in fact what caused the man in question (who was sleeping with his dad's wife) to repentance.

The Role of Godly Sorrow and Repentance

With Godly Sorrow but today they would not work the same way. Let me explain by asking:

“Why were they effectual? And why did they work in him to Godly sorrow and therefore repentance, and therefore salvation? But such things OFTEN work in opposition to such things in people today, only creating death in relationships and the like?

Remember the age, what was coming their way (as promised), what was required to be saved from what was coming as promised, and the fact that they expected that the bride of Christ that was to be taken, that Paul was called to guide and protect them, and that they were supposed to listen to him.

Take all of this and put it in play in the life of the reprobate who did repent unto salvation by their approach. He was in that age, that economy, that time when the end was headed their way and they (the believers) ALL knew it. He knew what was required to be saved from the coming destruction; he had felt the pain in being excommunicated, and that all of the friends and the fellowship of that community would be lost if he didn’t soften his heart and ways to God in a time when the Spirit was abundantly pulling him back.

The Context of Paul's Time

This makes sense, and justifies Paul’s use of terms like indignant, revenge, and the like. But today, if a man is in adultery he can wander into any church on earth and receive fellowship. And while he may worry about the second comingChrist’s return, fulfilled in 70 A.D., ending the old covenant—not the world. to take the church up, he shouldn’t be. So we can’t use a pressing eschatological stance to move him.

See, this is why these words, while very emphatic to them/then, cannot be applicable to us now – though zealous Christians for a thousand years have tried to apply them.

Application in Modern Times

And I say this with some trepidation. I don’t want to be out of sorts with the Lord and His ways, and I believe that if we are, in fact, really waiting to be rescued by Him at His return, we ought to practice in attitude what Paul describes here. And we should be indignant at sin, and we should seek revenge, and we should be zealous and all these other things.

But the caveat is in sound eschatologyStudy of “last things”—TGNN teaches all biblical eschatology was fulfilled in 70 A.D. More. So I now believe that every believer is to allow the Holy Spirit and its fruit to move others to sorrow that leads to repentance, and that when we get in the way with what Paul endorses here in the believers then and then, we will be appealing to the ways of the world, which will only lead to death . . . in relationship, and perhaps in the heart of the individual toward God.

This should not be.

(beat) We’ll see you next week . . . here on HOTM.

Show 3 Godly Worldly Sorrow
January 15th 2019