Heart of the Matter Broadcast Update
Live from the Mecca of Mormonism and the Factory in Salt Lake City, Utah, this is Heart of the Matter, where biblical Christianity meets American Evangelicalism face to face. I’m Shawn McCraney, your host.
And so the questions continue (in all probability because of my inability to make matters clear). The following is representative of the dozens we receive: “Shawn, are you going to be able to post your NRB shows here or where can I watch? Maybe u tube?” Because EVERYTHING changed when we got kicked off the television here in Utah the reorganization has taken some time –both to implement and to get used to. Let me try and explain, again, what is what – okay?
First, all of the programs we filmed in the past, before we got kicked off the air, are being replayed on the NRB Network every week – Fridays and Tuesdays – through Direct TV only. Through the NRB Network (available on Direct TV, SkyAngel, and Roku) we are able to reach 26 million potential viewers with the facts about Mormonism AGAIN which are taken from our previously recorded programs. Remember, ALL programs seen on the NRB network are AVAILABLE in our ARCHIVES at www.HOTM.tv. Got that? Okay.
New Program Access
Then, every week, BRAND NEW Heart of the Matter programs are being taped and streamed out live to the world. This is what you are watching right now if you are online and watching the show through hotm.tv. We WILL archive these programs on our website – I PROMISE . . . but it is taking some time as our site is being revamped. In the meanwhile YOU CAN access some of these shows through our YouTube channel by going to Youtube and typing in.
Finally, we are also working on getting our verse by verse studies through Matthew and Romans up and archived on our site at www.c-a-m-p-u-s.com. When you are constantly juggling resources and manpower to stay afloat these things takes an enormous amount of time for reasons few understand – so again, pray for us and grant us your patience.
Expansion and Outreach
Now, just as an FYI, the Holy Spirit, according to Jesus, moves like the wind and He is impossible to direct. Like the prophets of old and the Nation of Israel, ministry is constantly subject to having to pull up stakes and move. This is a trying and challenging experience if you are not used to it. We were very content airing on TV20 alone. Frankly, we did not see any reason to try and reach out any further. But God had other plans. And now, instead of reaching a hundred and fifty thousand potential households we are reaching a potential audience, through the NRB alone . . . 26 million. This doesn’t include the streaming, new archives, or any other outreach we do. Soooooo . . . We thank, and praise, and give Him all praise and adoration for the work He does and for allowing us to be apart.
In a bit of good news, we’ve been told that two churches in the Salt Lake area (churches of size and substance) have from the pulpit announced and admitted to having gotten off tract in terms of how they were conducting church – whether in their failure to teach the Word or in the presentation of their worship music. We praise the living God for the humility these pastors for changing some of their focus and for taking steps to do more to make the church experience they provide their flock more, shall we say, substantive. I know my person – my boldness and passion – is not easy to take – especially if you are a pastor – so for pastors to hear our rebuke and actually respond says something about their love for our King, their flock, and character. We hope and pray more and more pastors will turn from “the show” of present in modern Evangelicalism and toward more biblical expressions of New Testament gathering.
Upcoming Developments
LISTEN – we are going to be taking calls as soon as we can get a piece of equipment in our hands – which we hope will be next week. MORE patience!
Had the blessing of speaking at the Concerned Christians Conference this past weekend in Phoenix Arizona. Really had a great time as many people attended who were full of desire to seek and serve the true and living God. Thank you Andy and Bob.
Exploring Mormonism and Its Practices
and everybody else at Concerned Christians out in Mesa Arizona. In case you are not aware, Andy Polland hosts a radio show where he interviews people who have left Mormonism and it is very effective. Go to www.concernedchristians.com for more information.
Our good friend Wendy forwarded this interesting website to me: http://www.fullerconsideration.com/templenameoracle.php. This is a place online where you provide the date and new name you received in an LDS temple and the data is compared and correlated to others (who went to an LDS temple on the same day) in an effort to see if the new name given on every given day is the same worldwide. I can tell you right now they are. But it’s still an interesting project and might contribute to someone thinking outside of the Mormon box for a minute . . . and then climbing out of it and . . . walking away from it all together.
The Impact of LDS Missionary Service Pressure
What I am about to report on breaks my heart. There’s an online obituary company called ObitsUtah (who claim to run obituraries cheaper than what you can get through the newspaper). Anyway “ObitsUtah” ran this obituary last week: What makes this obituary so sad is this young man killed himself. We are very sorry to the family for this horrible loss.
Why would this young man take his own life? Our sources tell us that it was because he didn’t want to serve an LDS mission (which he was scheduled to depart for the next day). Instead of standing up to the immense pressure placed on these young men, he chose, instead, to end his life. This is just another example of the Mormon machine chewing up and spitting out anyone who cannot, will not, or does not conform to its relentless demands. This is not an isolated case and I would suspect that since the Mormon church has LOWERED the age of missionary service to 18 we are going to see more and more tragedies like this.
Think about this, folks. A person KILLING themselves over duty to a church! The whole concept is antithetical to the freedom and peace that ought to exist in the heart of any who serve the King. There is something MAJORLY wrong with this picture and I don’t understand why the members of the Mormon church don’t rise up against it.
Before you criticize me for reporting on the story of this family’s loss, ask yourselves – “How do you explain this death?” Do you put the blame on him? Do you label him as weak? Do you blame Satan, his family, or do you have the guts to place the blame right where it belongs – on a religious powerhouse that demands performance?
Why can’t the LDS Prophet say something from General Conference like this, “You know, full time missions are really great but they’re not for everyone. If you feel led to serve, we’re here to help. But if you are not so inclined, I, as the prophet, seer and revelator of this church, bless you in your life – go forward and prosper.” (Or something like that?).
Faith Healing and Belief
Here on last week’s show we spent some time exploring Fundamentalist Faith Healing. The topic – or my coverage of it – brought on a number of, shall I say, supports and . . . complaints. Faithful viewer Steve A. wrote in and said:
Shawn, On your Tuesday 4/9/13 live episode, you seemed to be strongly suggesting that we as believers don’t have healing powers or authority over unclean spirits. You stated that these powers were only given to the apostles that were disciplined directly by Jesus incarnate. I have to disagree. I have to strongly disagree.
I have to bring to light Mark 16:16-18. (which says) 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” The writer continues, saying:
These verses clearly state that power over unclean spirits and healing and gifts are given to those that believe on Him – not exclusively to the original twelve. Correct the wrongs, but please don’t sow seeds of doubt for us who hang onto everyone of His promises. He said all things are possible to those
Faith and Healing
who believe – faith is our everything! Please don’t work to destroy that.
Sincerely in the Lord,
Steve
I appreciate Steve’s comments because they give me a chance to clarify a few things. First of all, and like I said last week, I believe in Divine Healings. I believe all healings are divine – whether the result of prayer or medical professionals. But God chooses to heal or not. We go to Him in faith and we trust in the outcome completely – whether a person is healed or not. In my opinion, THIS is faith in God.
Scriptural Context
Last week I mentioned that I believe many of the passages pulled from Jesus in the New Testament about faith-healing were specifically given to His eleven disciples (Twelve if you count Paul) and that they served a specific purpose. According to Steve, the passages he supplied us with say all believers are equipped with the power to heal, handle poisonous snakes, etc. But the context of these passages (Mark 16:16-18) reveal my point. Go back to verse 14. This is what it says:
“Afterward Jesus appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.”
The context is Jesus WAS, in fact, meeting and teaching His disciples here. And He was upbraiding THEM for their unbelief… THEN WE READ THE PASSAGES STEVE SENT, WHERE JESUS SAYS:
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
In my opinion, these passages support my understanding of the place and purpose of the faith healing Jesus twelve disciples did – to prove He was the Messiah and to serve as a source of proof for the masses that they were who they said they were. To use these verses on believers today is errant because it places the onus of healing on Man. But our faith is on HIM to do His will – whether it be to heal or not. I’m not undermining the importance of faith, I just think the faith needs to be appropriately focused – on HIM and Him alone to do what He will – not to have our will done.
The Role of Faith Healers
Another disappointed viewer wrote, bothered that I “named names” when talking about many of today’s Faith Healers. She said:
Dear Shawn,
I was in full support of looking at ourselves, but when you basically “named names” and held all faith healers up as fakes and false teachers, my heart sank. When I was a little girl, my family would sit around watching Kathryn Khulman and make fun of her, now I love her and realized she was used of God. Such awesome miracles. Kenneth Hagin was healed off his death bed having learned what God’s word said. God has used him mightily and many healed as well. I could go on, but the point is, we are supposed to spread the gospel message and healings should naturally follow.
I know you said God still heals today, but you seemed antagonistic to those He uses. Sure there are some who are in it for the money, but I don’t think many are on the lists you gave.
First of all, somehow we have embraced this idea of “not naming names” or errant pastors and people is the Christian thing to do. What happens then is something far worse – everyone wanders around making conjecture on whom I am talking about. We’re not talking about innocent private people. We’re talking about public figures on television who make claims in Jesus name. If I find their methods and manner untenable, I’m going to name names – Paul did, in his epistles (which became scripture) so why shouldn’t we?
Naming Names
So Laura said “Sure there are some who are in it for the money, but I don’t think many on the lists you gave would qualify.” (Or are like Peter Popoff, who I used as an example last week). So let’s look at the people I named: Oral Roberts. Read an article in the Presbyterian Outlook in 1955 by Carol R Stegall, pastor.
Examination of Faith Healing Claims
Aimee Semple McPherson? Come on. Let me out it to you this way, there is an off-broadway play out about her life. Its title? Scandalous. Kathryn Kulman? www.spiritual-research-network.com
Marjoe Gortman? Full documentary expose’.
Peter Popoff – Benny Hinn – really need I say more? Ok – www.deceptioninthechurch.com
Kenneth Hagin (who died in 2003) most noted for the growing leg trick. Rod Parsley? W.V. Grant (also an appropriately named leg pulling expert) And Kenneth Copeland?
In her email, Laura actually said, in relation to the names she named, the following supportive statements: Kathryn Kuhlman – as having done “such wonderful miracles” and Kenneth Hagin who, she said – “God has used mightily and healed many.” I have to admit great intrigue when otherwise sound believers make statements like this. Have they actually witnessed a miracle by one of these faith healers or are they just regurgitating rhetoric based in hope and spiritual naivete?
Investigating Faith-Healing Miracles
And when I say have they actually witnessed an actual “faith-healing” miracle, what I mean by this is a person is actually proven to have an illness, they are brought to the faith healer, the faith healer acts in God’s name, and the person is cured for life? This type of investigation is just as important for a Christian to do into their faith as the investigations we have prompted the LDS to take into their faith. Lies and deceptions and fraud all originate from the same source, and just because someone says they are a Christian does not exempt their claims from scrutiny – and exposure if they are proven fraudulent.
Interestingly enough, last week before I did the show on Faith Healing, I received a voicemail from a man who lives here in SLC. Because of time constraints I did not listen to the voicemail until Wednesday or Thursday of last week. When I did this man said he really wanted me to meet a traveling pastor brother who, he said, maintains similar views of modern evangelicalism as myself. Intrigued, I called him on Thursday and he explained this man, named Charles, was from Kanab and was going to be in SLC preaching.
For some reason the Spirit prompted this brother to try and get me and this brother together. For some reason I asked, “Is this man a faith healer?” There was a pause and then he said, “Yes, yes he is.” I was told he would be speaking in town at a couple of different locations, one on Friday night. I called another friend of mine, who believes in faith healing, and invited him to go with me. He knew of the meeting and agreed to go.
A Faith-Healing Event
So there we were. The event was held in a retirement type of home and the room contained about twelve elderly people sitting around the room, a half dozen young adults, and maybe ten other people – some sitting alone others in pairs. Charles the faith healer from Kanab Utah started in. He was preaching about the mysteries in the word of God, about order and meaning relative to numbers used in scripture and the like. The teaching was sort of like a machine gunning out of a number of topics, highly kinetic in tone, connected in an odd sort of way, but disjointed.
I was intent on hearing what the man was saying. He had the ability to recite scripture rather well, and we were all over the place in his use of them as they peppered the message he attempted to give. He used the terms, “And what most people don’t know,” and “What you need to know is,” on several occasions throughout the first fifty minutes of his preaching. I could sense a build up coming however, and noticed his references to scripture beginning to wane as he drew the audience closer to the purpose of his being there . . . to heal. Then, at some point, he sequed into healing. And for a solid fifteen to twenty minutes, he prepped us with information relative to the healing he was able to do for
Faith Healing in the Latter Rain Movement
Much of his rhetoric orbited around his experience in the faith healing movement known as the Latter Rain Movement, which is a term used extensively by Pentecostals. Apparently, Charles cut his teeth on his “dadday,” and others (he threw out names like Aimess Semple and Oral Roberts to lend credibility to his experiences) and learned all about faith healing first hand from these people. He also emphasized and re-emphasized how “many stories he could tell” about healings he’d either seen or ones he personally officiated over. Then he started to get specific. And between each amazing story he would reiterate, “how many stories he could tell.”
The pump was being primed. A young woman from the back said, “tell the story about the African boy who raised the dead!” And he repeated a story that reflected her description. People “ooohed and ahhed.” This is part of the process. Let me explain how it works. If you hear over the radio that a comedian is coming to town, and the comments are the comedian is funny, funny – you are more prepared to laugh when sitting in the audience than if you had just come upon the person on the street. The setting up of the environment lends to the desired results. So it is with “faith healing.” People come expecting to see or experience a miracle. The audience is heightened and open and ready to see and feel a healing. And they often do.
Qualifiers for True Healing
The question is, IS the healing of God? I would say the healing is of God IF all these factors exist. First, the person has a legitimate medical ailment or illness. They have cancer as determined by biopsy. They are blind. Or deaf. They are missing a leg. To say someone has been depressed or has a pain in their leg or is even hard of hearing, in my opinion, fails because all of these things are understood in relative terms and all of them can be alleviated or even removed through touch and/or words of encouragement. I throw addiction in the same boat. Demon possession too. We note that Jesus and his disciples' healings were of people who were KNOWN to be diseased, blind (from birth) deaf, mute, with leprosy, or possessing a withered limb. We know they were dead or had a history of being and living and acting like a demon-possessed person – breaking chains and cutting themselves with rocks etc. So the first qualifier is, are they truly ill or defective.
The Nature of Healing
The second qualifier is, “have they truly been healed.” What I mean by this is, if someone was truly blind can they now truly see? Someone without a functioning limb (you know, one that’s all crippled) is it restored whole. (And by the way, no leg lengthening BS. That’s just a carnival trick). Finally, does their healing stick? God does not heal partially. If they are blind, they will see. And I would guess God would give them 20/20 vision while He’s at it. Got all that? Those are my qualifiers. I’d add in the query how money is involved in the whole shebang but I don’t think that’s necessary. Just the three – Are they truly ill or diseased or broken? Are they healed from the ailment? Does the healing stay or stick completely?
Amidst the Charles schtick, he told a story about a woman named Laura who was on her death bed and in a coma. He said that he was called to come to the hospital where all the family and friends were gathered around her when he walked in. I can’t recall all the details but long story short she was on her way out for sure – and everyone was there to say their final goodbyes. So old Charles, in the name of Jesus, calls her to rise from her sick bed and lo and behold, she does! Right out of that darned old coma! At this point I could not contain myself, so I raised my hand. “I really appreciate your focus on the importance of the word of God Charles, but as a believer we are commanded to test ALL things and to hold fast to what is good. I am a cynic of cynics when it comes to stuff like this, and so what I’d like to ask of you is relative to your story about Laura, that you would prove it.” Boy there was a long pause in the air that night. “Of course, I can prove it,” Charles said. “No problem. I have the documentation on my desk right at home.” “Okay
The Topic of Faith Healing
“So you are going to prove that Laura was on her death bed in a coma and you raised her to full health.” “I didn’t raise anyone,” he replied. “Oh, right,” I said, “the Lord then raised . . .” And he looked at the rest of the audience and began talking about people thinking he did the healing but that is never the case.
I jumped back in the conversation, echoing his correction, “yeah, yeah, yeah, Charles, my mistake. What I meant to say is she was truly in a coma and Jesus raised her up through you. You can prove this?” “I can prove thousands of stories like that,” he said. “No, I don’t want proof of thousands. Just the proof that Laura was on her death bed, in a total coma, and you . . .” He interrupted me again, “I don’t know why you keep saying that Shawn, I can’t heal anyone.” “Okay, okay, Jesus healed Laura through you. You can prove this to me.” “Yes,” he replied.
I said, “now all of you heard this. You have heard Charles say he could and would provide medical evidence that Laura was in a coma and that he THROUGH JESUS raised her to full health?” I turned back to Charles. “If you prove this to me, Charles, I will go on our program and websites and repent for my faithlessness, and call you a true faith healer, and admit that my stance on this stuff has been wrong.” Charles and members of the audience took off on my faithlessness, and many in the audience were getting ready to lynch me. They talked openly about their own healings (none of which met with the criteria I’ve presented) and others talked about God not being able to do anything when a person is critical or faithless. But they were missing the point and were only pointing their fingers at me forgetting that I was talking about a healing that HAD supposedly taken place! I wanted proof of something long done!
Audience Reactions
Charles then moved into the actual healing phase of his service and asked: Is anyone here struggling with a tingling foot, or a foot that has pain? I raised my hand. My foot has been known to tingle a time or two. Charles hesitantly called me forward and had me sit down. He went on to other targets. Woman with a bad back. Woman with an issue of pharmekea dependence on substances. She seems to have been a follower of Charles as she and her friend appeared to know him personally.
In the midst of these healings, Charles blurts out: “Shawn, I can give you my cell phone right now and you can call a woman out in Texas and she’ll verify that Laura was healed the way I said.” “I’m not calling anyone, Charles. I want proof that you said you can provide. I want to see that this woman is healed.” “Well that’s gonna be hard because she’s gone now – it was fourteen years ago” he said. “So you can’t prove it to me?” I asked? “I can prove all sorts of things to you! The Lord healed TWO BLIND WOMEN HERE JUST LAST YEAR!” I would suggest that Charles was resorting to a few tricks of cons – overwhelm the questioner with an even greater claim as a means to sway and impress the audience.
Claims of Miraculous Healings
“You mean two blind men were healed right here in this room?” I asked. He looked at the audience and laughed, “Not here in this room, Shawn” (the audience laughed with him) “Oh,” I said, “you mean here in Salt Lake City? Last year?” “That’s right,” he said. “Okay. Forget Laura. I’ll take the TWO blind guys.” “Women, Shawn,” he said, “they were women.” “Fine. You prove to me that there were two women who were blind, as determined by a medical professional, and after meeting with you, they received their sight. Can you prove this to me.” “I can prove that and thousands of others!” he exclaimed. “Charles, Charles, Charles . . . I don’t want or need thousands . . . just one. Just the blind women. Deal?” “Alright, Shawn,” he replied.
The subject of contention came up (and I was again the focus). And then I watched as a poor old man who lived there in the complex get up to leave. I had been introduced to him as a former pilot who had had a stroke.
Faith and Reality
Myth and fables – even if meant to increase and support faith in our Lord, if not true, do NOTHING but harm the reality of Christ. In more ways than we can count. It produces what William called Bad Faith. I’ve had enough bad faith in my life. And I LOVE the fact that we are to pursue God with all of our heart and MIND, that we are to prove all things, that our faith is established in reality, not myth, mysticism, and the deceptions of Man. Again, I believe in miracles and I lay all of them at the feet of our God. But faith healing is based on an erroneous premise with failing and ailing biblical supports to justify it. If there is someone out there who was healed by a faith healer and their game, prove it to me, please, so I too can join in the group of millions who have, with their own eyes, seen one.
Emails from Viewers
From: Dana A
I am a faithful member of the L.D.S. church. I have watched your show a few times on YouTube, my daughter watches regularly and has for some time. All our family are L.D.S. As a result of watching, this has caused huge arguments between my daughter and her husband. The marriage is reaching crisis point and I fear the outcome as her husband says the devil's got her because she watches Shawn Mccraney on Heart of the Matter. I'm starting to see that what my daughter is saying about Jesus may be correct and perhaps what we have been taught by our church leaders may be wrong. I would please ask you to pray for my daughter and her family. She has 4 small children and I fear for her health. This crisis has taken its toll on her as she is now on anti-depressants. Please pray for her well-being and that her husband would be at least willing to listen objectively at some of the things Heart of the Matter tells us about the church's early history and Joseph Smith, but especially what Shawn says about Jesus and who he really is. My husband and I have only listened in a few times but your program has raised sufficient doubt in our minds that we would like to learn more. We also wish to support your show financially, please tell me how I can do that. Thank you and God bless you.
The NRB Network received this email in reaction to them carrying Heart on their Network:
Message from: Richard
Are you seriously taking Shawn Mccreany and his message of hate into your broadcast line up? Are you aware of his arrogant and bombastic nature? Shawn is good at exposing Mormonism and its cult-like nature and falsehoods. Are you aware that he anointed himself the judge and jury over what is correct in Christianity? Last winter he took a break from his regular broadcast schedule on TV 20 in SLC, UT. After his break, he announced his new agenda, to go after certain evangelical Christian groups in Utah. Over his break, he visited some churches. He concluded that they were in error and he anointed himself as the new gatekeeper of all that is right in Christendom. He announced formally that Mormonism was no longer his focus. He was now going to expose all that was wrong in Christianity… according to Shawn. If you doubt this report, take a look at his final broadcast of Heart of the Matter. I am a loyal NRB watcher. I am an EX Mormon… who has now come to Christ. I loathe Mormonism… but Shawn Mccreany??? I hope you will dig a little deeper into this man’s character, history and agenda. I watched his last broadcast of HOTM on SLC TV 20… I was horrified by what he said and how arrogantly he said it.
In Memory
Luke Samuel Sellers
March 4, 1994 ~ April 9, 2013
Luke Sellers passed away on April 9, 2013, in Ogden.
In Memory of Luke
Luke passed away peacefully in Utah with his family by his side. He was born on March 4, 1994. He graduated from Bonneville High School and LDS Seminary. He worked at Fresh Market on 40th Street and then for Spartan Mechanical as an apprentice HVAC Technician. He enjoyed his co-workers and developed a close relationship with his boss, Dave Terry. Luke was called to serve in the Boston Massachusetts LDS Mission at the time of his death. He was a joy in his family and will be remembered for his kindness to all, his gratitude for small favors, and his quick wit that brightened people’s lives.
Family and Friends
Luke is survived by his parents, Bart and Lori; brothers, Ben, Blake, and Scott; grandparents, Don Larson and Keith and Louise Sellers; and other friends and family.
Funeral Services
Funeral services will be held on Saturday, April 13, 2013 at 1 p.m. at the Burch Creek 5th Ward Chapel, 4955 Adams Ave. Friends may visit with family on Saturday from 11:30 a.m. to 12:30 a.m. at the church. Arrangements entrusted to Lindquist’s Ogden Mortuary.
