Heart of the Matter Episode 18
Live from the "Mecca of Mormonism", Salt Lake City, Utah
This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. where Mormonism meets Biblical Christianity face to face. I’m your host, Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion..
If you have family or friends who cannot get Heart through television, give them a call and tell them to go to WWW.HOTM.TV and they can watch through streaming video from anywhere in the world!
I Was a Born-Again Mormon
The manuscript is available online through a downloadable PDF. Go to www.hotm.tv and you can have the book in your hands within minutes.
How about joining a weekly verse by verseTGNN’s Bible teaching series—book-by-book, through the lens of fulfillment and spiritual liberty. never denominational Bible Study? Join us at CAMPUS every Sunday at either Utah State in Logan or at the U of U in Salt Lake City. Go to www.calvarycampus.com for more information like times and directions.
You know, all through my life as a Latter-day Saint I was taught never to play with what they called "face cards", meaning cards that people use to play things like poker that have “faces on them” like the Jack, Queen, and King. They were evil. As a kid, I was always intrigued by this. "Face cards?" I used to ask. "What do those strangely drawn faces have to do with anything?" "They are not of God!" I would be reminded, "they are of man… and the debil!"
Recently, someone was shopping in a store here in Utah. Now for those of you who don’t live in the state, most grocery stores have these LDS sections where you find games and books and cards specifically catering to the Mormon culture. I mean you can walk into a national chain and there smack dab in the middle is an area teeming with a whole bunch of Mormon products – bright and sparkly for the kids, scrubbed and modest for the teens, Stepford for the women-folk, and professionally polished for the men.
Well, it was brought to my attention that the LDS are providing their own form of face-cards to their members. They are called…
And with that, let’s have a prayer.
The Nature of Faith
Our topic tonight is faith. It’s not a simple one, especially as it relates to the Mormon/Christian comparative. The reason for this is because faith comes in many forms and purities which make defining and understanding it more difficult than most other topics. I would suggest that perhaps one of the best ways to understand the general, overarching topic of faith is to look at it like we would look at types of water.
God has provided the world with the very essential element of water. We could look at the formula of H2O and liken it to faith because H2O is found in so many different ways – different purities, if you will. Walk into any supermarket today and you will find rows of bottled water all claiming to be superior or different in one way or another. Additionally, we have natural spring water, ocean water, geyser water, distilled water, tap water, pond water, and at the top of the heap what Jesus called, “Living water.”
So it is with faith. Like water, faith is a general term which presents itself in a number of different forms and purities. General faith is available to all human beings and is used by all to some extent or another. Like the essential element of water, faith is foundational to the sustenance and growth of human life.
Faith in Everyday Life
It is by faith that we take our first steps, try to shoot a basket, attend college – believing the acts will benefit our lives and someday prove successful. It is by faith that athletes train, architects draw, people get married, and save money. Intellectual and economic progress would be impossible without faith. Who would anyone get in a plane to visit a country they have not seen before if it weren’t for general faith that such a place existed? Who would go to sleep not having a foundational faith that they will wake in the morning to a new day? I have never seen my brain matter but by faith, I trust that it will allow me to solve problems and examine information now and in the future.
So life on earth is sustained by faith – even for the atheists who ignorantly and arrogantly mock its very name. However, like water, some faith is good and some faith is bad. And, like water, some faith is capable of sustaining…
Good or Living Faith
Life, and some faith is very limited in its ability to do any good for us at all. For this reason, and in this context of our discussion between Mormonism and Christianity, I am going to take the general category of faith and break it into two specific categories – “Bad or Dead Faith” and “Good or Living Faith.”
Now, just for tonight, allow me the luxury of taking any and all faith that does NOT save a person's soul and place it in the “Bad or Dead Faith” bin. I am doing this so that we can better understand “Good or Living Faith.” Obviously, having faith that tells us we can reach our goals in business is not bad in and of itself – any more than tap water is bad in and of itself – but this type of faith is not lasting – therefore, tonight, I am placing it in the bad faith category.
Thomas Browne said: “To believe only possibilities is not faith, but merely philosophy.” It is on this basis that I am placing any and all faith that exists outside of faith in God in the Bad Faith file.
Bad Faith vs. Good Faith
One of the problems we face when it comes to understanding Good or Living Faith is that it is as different from general faith as pond water is from the living water Jesus offered the woman at the well. Human life is filled with purveyors and promoters of this faith that never lasts and is therefore by comparison to faith that lasts, bad. For evidences just listen-in on any Monday morning sales rally, any Positive Mental Attitude seminar, or to almost any motivational speaker or guru. They are all promoting water, but it is water where you will thirst again. Hence, again – and just for tonight – I am going to put all faith that cannot be defined as living or lasting faith into the “Bad Faith” file.
So what is the best definition of Good Faith? Of faith that bears eternal fruit and consequences? (Ready?) Taking God at His Word. (beat) When God says, “In the beginning, God. . .” and you decide in your mind AND heart to assent to this, to believe in this, and to embrace and incorporate it into your existence, you are taking God at His word, and are in possession of Good Faith – lasting faith – living faith. Good and Living Faith is an assent of the mind AND the heart and often, I have discovered, it is nothing more than a personal choice to believe and take God at His Word.
Evans said: “Faith is not a sense, nor sight, nor reason, but taking God at His Word.” REMEMBER THIS DEFINITION! I am blessed to meet soooooo many people and many of them do not really understand the properties of Good Faith. Many of them get confused and think that faith is this “magical state of mind” wherein the individual does not really have to think or make a choice, but that God steps in and sort of places a spell over their minds and hearts and they automatically and easily accept and believe.
The Reality of Good Faith
And while this does describe one aspect of Good faith – saving faith – which we will discuss in a minute, this is often not the case in other areas where Good Faith operates. What is more the reality when it comes to possessing good faith is that even in the face of doubt, difficulty, and sometimes against all logic, people of faith choose to take God at His Word. And this pleases Him. In fact, it is impossible to please Him in any other way! Remember Hebrews 11:6
“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
Now, under the general category of Good Faith, we might create some sub-categories. The first category under Good Faith we will call “Saving Faith.”
Here is the first place where the Mormons and Christians differ as Christians take God at His Word and Latter-day Saints do not. What does the Bible say about saving faith? Well, first it says it comes by taking God at His Word about His Son.
John 1:1-2 says
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ALL things were made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made.”
Later, in verse 14 it tells us about this “Word,” saying:
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.”
The Concept of Faith and Salvation
is Yeshua. All things – all things – were made by Him. He is God.
John 3:17 says:
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
1st John 4:14 says:
“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.”
Jesus Himself said:
“I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6
So, do you take God at His Word?
The LDS do not. They say that while Jesus came to earth and made salvation possible, He alone is not the way – there are additional paths and requirements required to come to the Father. Secondly, God says definitively that faith and faith alone on His Son is enough to be eternally saved from sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace., deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. and hell.
Faith and Justification
Speaking to a gathering of Jews, Paul said in Acts 13:38-39:
“Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man (Jesus) is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
Galatians 2:16 says:
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
Salvation by Faith Alone
This “living, saving faith” in Christ is the sole means of salvation. It is not received meritoriously (meaning it is not received by our works) but instrumentally, meaning God holds out to us His Son and desires all to grasp hold of Him. Those who actually do have simply decided to “take God at His Word.”
Such saving faith cannot be forced. It is not a struggle to maintain. It is not earned by squinting and praying really, really hard. It is more so a giving up, a relinquishment of the will, and waving of the white flag and simply receiving God’s solution – His Son, how? That’s right, “by taking Him at His Word that He is who He is and that faith in Him is sufficient.”
Now the LDS state plainly that saving faith is not given or offered by God freely…but is earned. Mormon President Joseph F. Smith was quoted as saying in “Teachings of the Presidents of the Church,” page 53:
“It is said that faith is a gift of God, and so it is; but faith does not come without works; faith does not come without obedience to the commandments of God.”
Where Christians believe saving faith is offered to all unmeritoriously and without any qualifications other than a humble willingness to receive it, Mormons tell us faith is earned through obedience to the commandments of God!
In the LDS Bible Dictionary under the topic of faith, it says:
“…strong faith is developed by obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ (meaning Mormonism); in other words, faith comes by righteousness.”
Biblical Figures and Faith
Where Jesus says, come as you are, come unto me all ye that are heavy laden (with sin, with trials, with ugliness) and I will give you rest, Mormonism teaches that you must clean yourself up to be worthy of faith, to earn faith, and to possess saving faith.
What is really interesting about the unique LDS stance that “faith comes by righteousness and obedience” is that when we look at the men and women listed in Hebrews chapter 11 which is often called, the Faith Hall of Fame, we find some interesting people listed who in terms of their personal righteousness would be considered faithless by LDS standards today.
I mean, the Bible hails Noah as an icon of faith. But didn’t he get drunk? Noah couldn’t get a temple recommend from the LDS – and here in Hebrews 11, he is listed as one of the most faithful in the Bible!
Sarah, Abraham’s wife is listed. Didn’t she go all evil on Hagar and kick her and her son Ishmael out into the desert to die? Yes, she did. But she believed God. Who else is listed as being a beacon of faith there in Hebrews? Oh, that’s right…
Comparatively and humanistically speaking, Jacob was a sneaky little punk and Esau his brother was more of a real man. But
Faith in Biblical Figures
Jacob was a man of faith, who took God at His Word! Moses? He failed in His duties as a husband, he killed a man in anger. But what a man of faith! What a man who took God at His word! And then there’s old Rahab? I mean the writer of Hebrews refers to her as “Rahab the Harlot!” The harlot! But she is mentioned here as a female icon of faith! Hebrews mentions Gideon and Barak, of whom scripture states that, “Out of weakness they were made strong.” They were NOT strong men except strong by FAITH! The writer adds Samson! Who possessed great weakness toward women. But listed as a man of faith! David is listed! An adulterer and a murderer, but a man after God’s own heart. A man who took God at His Word. A man of faith.
Saving Faith vs. Living Faith
You see the LDS have it all wrong when it comes to faith and its origins. Faith is NOT produced by righteousness and obedience, but ultimately, righteousness and obedience follow those who possess faith. Get it? It’s like the question: “Are you happy because you are good or are you good because you are happy?” The LDS operate off the premise: “We are happy because we are good.” Christians operate off the premise: “We are good because we are happy – in Christ.” Get the difference.
The LDS say: “I have faith because I have been obedient and righteous.” Where the Christian says: “I am obedience and righteous because I have faith.” So that is “saving faith.” It opens the door of heaven to all who embrace it, it comes without a price but to humbly acquiesce ourselves to God. Well, saving faith opens the door to new life. And in this new life, as new creatures in Christ, we begin to operate for another type of Good Faith – what we’ll call “living faith.”
Characteristics of Living Faith
Where saving faith is immediate, Living Faith is processional. It grows and brings with it some amazing factors to the true Christian life. Let’s discuss these factors. First, there is new vision – the seeing of the world from God’s perspective and not man’s. C.S. Lewis said, “I believe in Christ like I believe in the sun, not just because I see it, but because by it I can see everything else.” Lewis’s quote explains why people who experience true faith become “Jesus freaks” so to speak. It is because everything they see now relates to Him. By and through Him, life is completely altered. Keller summarized this sight with some beautiful prose, saying: “Dark as my path may seem to others, I carry a magic light in my heart. Faith, the spiritual strong searchlight illuminates the way, and although sinister doubts lurk in the shadow, I walk unafraid toward the Enchanted Wood where the foliage is always green, where joy abides, where nightingales nest and sing and where life and death are one in the presence of the Lord.”
In addition to a new, fresh, and living sight, this “living faith” – if allowed to thrive – can serve to help reduce, if not eliminate fear, tension, and the anxieties of life. Someone profound once said: “To me, faith means not worrying.” How can there be worry if our faith is placed in the hands of the living God? Here again, Mormon faith fails. To them, all assurances are placed squarely on the shoulders of the individual, not on Jesus, which tacitly makes life tenuous, and often amounts in the end to stress, fear, and worry. This is one of the burdens we hope to alleviate from off the backs of millions of LDS believers – the burden of not being assured in Christ’s shed blood. Of not knowing that you are absolutely lovely and accepted by God because of your faith – and nothing more.
Mahatma Gandhi said: “You cannot have faith and tension at the same time.” In the realm of Good Faith, the fears, worries, and tensions are all placed – NOT in our own hands, NOT in a positive mental attitude and NOT in our works and righteousness – but in the Hands of the living God and His righteousness. This is part of what separates Good Faith from Bad – where the actual faith itself is aimed and placed.
This brings us to another divergence of faith that exists between the LDS and the biblical Christian. Bible-believing Christians ought to place all of their faith and hope in Jesus Christ – on and in God – and to trust Him at His Word. But the LDS are commanded to place their faith in a variety of other man-made institutions, especially…
Good Faith and Mormonism
In what they call, “the Church” itself. This is why they made face cards that uphold and promote mere men of lust, flesh, and blood. Past LDS president Gordon B. Hinckley said:
(QUOTE from page 265)
In the LDS magazine the Ensign, Mormon (ahem) Apostle James Faust listed four absolutes to the Mormon faith:
(Quote on page 266 – 267)
LDS faithful are told to place faith and trust in their local leaders, the priesthood, in any and every decision passed down to them from Salt Lake and even in their own feelings. But God says, Trust me and me alone.
Good Faith versus Personal Works
Finally, we come to another factor found in “Living Faith” – it leads to doing the works and commandments of God. Just as a glass of cold refreshing water energizes the weary into new life, so will Good Faith energize and move a believer to new life and action. But take note: “It is not faith and works, nor is it faith or works, but it is faith that works.” This is the final result and effect of Good Faith, manifesting itself after saving faith has worked its wonders, and once living faith begins to take root.
This is yet another place where Mormonism and biblical Christianity part ways . . . too. STOP. Remember, to the LDS, personal works, personal righteousness, and personal obedience not only precede faith, they produce it! I would suggest that this is a perfect description of bad faith and not good. In essence, the rub between the LDS and biblical Christians is from whence and what saving faith originates.
Where the Christian cries in desperate faith, “Lord, save me!” the Latter-day Saint expects the Lord to reward them – for their efforts and lives lived. The question stands: “Is it faith that fuels obedience or is it obedience that fuels faith?” Christianity emphatically states that it is by faith in Jesus and Jesus alone that they are saved and it is by faith in Jesus alone that they walk. Latter-day Saints state that because they are obedient they are blessed with faith – and more faith. The first Christian premise places the onus upon faith in Jesus alone while the second LDS premise puts it squarely on the back of the Mormon member.
Living Faith
This leads us to a second subcategory of Good Faith – which I call Living Faith. Taking the whole definition of Good Faith in hand, the thinker Redhead wrote: “The Faith that saves is the total response of the whole self to the will of God. It is the response of the mind in belief, the heart in trust, and the will in conduct. It is to accept the fact that God goes all out for us, and then to be willing to go all out for God.”
In Hebrews 11:1, the writer of the book defines faith, saying: “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Let’s talk about this verse for a minute. When it reads, “Faith is the substance of things hoped for” we
Defining Faith
Good faith, bad faith. Dead faith, live faith. The substance, the evidence. Cannot please God without it. We love always. We have faith in God only. We trust His Word completely. We hope for others especially. We do not have faith in angels, that the sun will rise, that the car will start, that we will be victorious. We have faith – total sold out faith in Him; that he will send His angels, that He will send the sun up, that He will start the car, and that He will lead us to victory. Focus is on HIM!
Faith includes trusting amidst our doubts, sins, failures, and evidence to the contrary (the less doubt, the more faith), waiting, and works of love. Importance of faith? 1st Corinthians 13!
Faith and Works
(GRAPHIC):
Good Faith
Saving Faith
Living Faith
new vision for truth and hope
peace and loss of fear
(GRAPHIC):
Good Faith
Saving Faith
Living Faith
new vision for truth and hope
peace and loss of fear
Leads to works of God
(GRAPHIC):
“It is not faith and works nor is it faith or works, but it is faith that works.”
Definition and Nature of Faith
FAITH
The assent of the understanding to any truth. Religious faith is assent to the truth of divine revelation and of the events and doctrines contained in it. This may be merely historical, without producing any effect on our lives and conversation; and it is then a dead faith, such as even the devils have. But a living or saving faith not only believes the great doctrines of religion as true, but embraces them with the heart and affections; and is thus the source of sincere obedience to the divine will, exhibited in the life and conversation. Faith in Christ is a grace wrought in the heart by the Holy Spirit, whereby we receive Christ as our Savior, our Prophet, Priest, and King, and love and obey him as such. This living faith in Christ is the means of salvation—not meritoriously, but instrumentally. Without it there can be no forgiveness of sins, and no holiness of life; and they who are justified by faith, live and walk by faith, Mr 16:16; Joh 3:15,16; Ac 16:31; 1Jo 5:10.
Essential Grace of True Faith
True faith is an essential grace, and a mainspring of Christian life. By it the Christian overcomes the world, the flesh, and the devil, and receives the crown of righteousness, 1Ti 4:7-8. In virtue of it, worthy men of old wrought great wonders, Heb 11:1-40; Ac 14:9; 1Co 13:2, being sustained by Omnipotence in doing whatever God enjoined, Mt 17:20; Mr 9:23; 11:23-24. In Ro 1:8, faith is put for the exhibition of faith, in the practice of all the duties implied in a profession of faith.
