Deconstruction

The Study of End Times

Live from Salt Lake City, Utah, this is Heart of the Matter, where we do all we can to try and worship God in Spirit and in Truth. I’m your host, Shawn McCraney.

Show 35 461
September 1st, 2015

Well folks, it’s September 1st, 2015 – the beginning of the end for many folks. Books have been sold, hype has flooded the airlines – something big is gonna happen – mostly due to the convergence of the Jewish holidays and motions in the stars. Is it the end of the world? Is Jesus coming back? What does the Bible actually say?

We have invited Dr. Don K. Preston to join us on Friday, Sept 11 from 7-9 PM and Saturday morning Sept 12th from 9-11 AM to answer this. Dr. Don is one of the world’s foremost experts in the study of end times. He can answer the hard questions relative to end times, like: Well what about the Millennium? What about the two who will lay dead in the streets? What about the new temple? What about the anti-Christ?

I don’t care one bit about what is happening in the world – the world is going to ebb and flow – and it is quite possible we could destroy ourselves. It is certainly possible the United States will experience total economic decline – we have before! But the real question is, “When does the Bible say Jesus would return and when the end of the age would be.” Why is this so important? Because if believers can clear all the mania away surrounding futurist or dispensationalist claims we can start focusing on being what the Body should be. More on this in a minute.

Dr. Don K. Preston, September 11 and 12th. Go to www.hotm.tv for more information.

Subjective Christianity in Philippians

We are working our way through books of the New Testament for passages that support Subjective Christianity. We’re in Philippians this morning.

Unity in Believers

Let’s start with chapter 1 verse 6: Philippians 1:6 “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” Who will perform the good work in us? God. Not man. Not us. Him. His Spirit.

Speaking of the unity, not the division that should exist in believers, Paul writes Philippians 1:27-28 “Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel.” The ONLY way for there to be this unity is for us to adopt the Subjective approach to the faith which will put away division.

Speaking again of unity:

The Mind of Christ

Philippians 2:1-11 “If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Again . . . Philippians 2:14-15 “Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” And finally, Philippians 4:2 “I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.” That mind is based on faith in him, and love and not on divisionary doctrinal disputes.

Spiritual Insights and Personal Reflections

Prior to my venture into Christianity or really truly caring about Jesus or truth, I was a self-taught student of thought. I’m not the smartest tool in the shed but I have been blessed by God – again by God, it is not my own goodness – that has always been able to see grand themes in the presence of the sum of its parts. I’m really quite horrible at management of things or at running a business or ministry. It’s not my forte. But present me a historical narrative, a body of teachings, or a collection of ideas and I will show you the interconnectedness, the universal theme, and even the flaws of the collective. I’m not always right – in fact sometimes what I believe is a gift is nothing more than finding meaning in things where there is none – but if given the time to take in the facts of a people or history or narrative I typically will discover the zeitgeist of the subject – and the flaws. I think the ability is spiritual – which automatically lends it to scrutiny by the scientific, anti-mystical world.

Understanding the Cracks in Religious Institutions

When I was in my early twenties I read Thoreau. Civil Disobedience and Waldon. He provided me with some great lines that summarized the gift God gave me as a child, notably: “There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.“ Let me give you some examples of how this view has operated in my religious life. When I was LDS and was trained to see the church as the Only True Religion on the Face of the Earth, I bought it from the heart, but began, at an early age, to see cracks in the foundation of this claim. These cracks weren’t based on challenges to doctrine or condemnatory information I later learned about Mormon history. The cracks appeared in my head upon witnessing disconnects between the institutions truth claims and the realities surrounding it.

I remember hearing as a child that “the Church is true” but knowing something was wrong with the idea of shaking hands with spirits to determine their origin. “The church is true,” I would hear as a teen, but I couldn’t understand this true church pushing us to converge on Saturday nights at dances that played music in an environment that totally appealed to my youthful lusts. “The Church is true,” I tearfully taught as a missionary in Pennsylvania, but how come they treat our work among the people like a business. And why are they pushing me to baptize?

Of course, I ultimately left Mormonism, seeing it for what it was – an institution that worships Man by using a feigned worship of God to achieve its means. When I left this system (which was full of people and memories that I actually loved, by the way) I promised that I would always strive to be one who hacks at the root of a problem rather than join the thousands hacking at the leaves.

Reflections on Christianity and Ministry

So, in comes Christ and with Him what I thought would be Christianity. I dove in. I went to school. I served in ministry to a Calvary Chapel. I listened through every tape of Chuck Smith teaching the entire Bible verse by verse. Took me a three hours a day, every day, for more than a year. I heard and learned great things – wonderful insights on the Bible which, by the way, that holds up perfectly to the spiritual litmus test for continuity. But in the teachings, and in the years of service, the cracks began to appear.

“I’m a Christian,” I would say, but I can’t understand why Chuck keeps saying not only that the end has got to be just around the corner but that he hopes it is! “Chuck,” I would cry from my heart, “why do you want the end to come!? My family doesn’t know the Lord! Don’t you want God to give everyone as many chances as possible to receive Him?” Time went on. I steeped myself in the Word – preached it, taught it, read it (and it alone) cover to cover – the Old Testament twice and the New Testament at least ten times through. “I’m a Christian but why don’t I, God, from a Biblical perspective, understand creedal Trinitarianism as

Understanding Christianity Today

“I’m a Christian, God, from the heart, so how come the Bible clearly presents a picture, from the Greek, that hell is not what my brothers and sisters say it is?” “Lord God in heaven – Jesus – I love and believe in you completely and want to serve to and yours in sold out love . . . but why does the Bible contextually show that everything has been accomplished? That it’s a history of your dealing with the House of Israel and that time is over?”

So, I went from Mormonism (which claims to be a Restoration of the Church Jesus established) to coming to know Jesus from the Spirit and embracing a religious product Protestant and Protestant offshoots call the “Reformation of the Church” to sitting here, looking at the camera, and trying to convey to any and all who will hear how I see the grand theme of Christianity today.

Questions About Faith

Is Jesus Lord? Is he Savior? Is He King? Unquestionably. He is my God and King and presents me justified and sanctified by His grace through faith. Is the Bible the Word of God? Without a doubt. When read with the Spirit it is perfectly composed, in whatever translation or language considered, to sanctify the hearts of all who are His. I trust it, I rely on it to move me to understanding Him and His ways – which is its purpose.

But what do we see, amidst the grand themes of the faith past and present, as it stands facing the future here and now? The absolute need to go from Reformation (and all Restorational attempts) to a total and relentless Deconstruction.

Reformation (fail) Restoration (fail) DECONSTRUCTION

Deconstruction of Faith

Let me explain why. IF we take the Bible, and we errantly allow ourselves to believe that it was not only written to us – in this day – but continues to have application to us in our day relative to prophecy, we are allowing ourselves to make a serious error in judgement which has led to the state we are in today and the state we have been in since Constantine – Our thinking that Jesus has a literal brick and mortar church that He built and the Bible is the literal material instructions for this institution.

But, IF we allow ourselves to let go of our egos, and IF we allow ourselves to believe that the Bible IS God’s word which has a tremendous purpose for us today but its all spiritually derived and NOT a manual for continuing to do physical church, we will, as a people of faith, be in a position to let all that has been created DECONSTRUCT upon itself, freeing us to be Christians that we are meant to be.

So let me support this through the way I understand the grand narrative of the Bible. When Jesus walked the earth, He we read Jesus say:

Matthew 16:18-19 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Later, Jesus speaks of the same power being placed in the hands of all of the Apostles who then built out of the House of Israel what Jesus called my CHURCH. Were gentiles part of this Church that the twelve apostles culled from the area? Certainly, and through faith they became Israelites by adoption. Jesus called Paul specifically to reach them – and us. In my estimation, what Jesus said to Matthew was true and the gates of hell did not prevail against that Church that He assigned His apostles to build.

And under APOSTOLIC direction the gates of hell could not touch it. And then Jesus, as promised, came and took that Church in 70AD and that the body of believers were saved as the Apostles throughout the New Testament promised they would. Again, in the New Testament the believers were His Church and the gates of hell did not prevail against it and just when things got really, really ugly He came and took His church leaving the rest of Jerusalem to be utterly wasted –

The Body of Christ

ending their world, ending temples, ending genealogies, ending all promises to the Nation of Israel. Since then there is no difference between Jew or Gentile, male or female, bond or free in Christ. This was His Churches reward for remaining Christians in the face of all the persecution and trial that came with being believers in that age. Once Jesus came to Jerusalem and took that apostolic Church away – I would humbly suggest that the gates of Hell have certainly prevailed against what people have tried to say and build and create as His Church. The examples are so heinous and vast its impossible to articulate them all even if we talked non-stop for a year – partly because they continue to occur even as we speak!

The Role of the Holy Spirit

What HAS certainly continued on from the destruction of Israel and His saving His church is His BODY of unfettered, unaltered, unchanged, unaffected and pure believers – His perfect Body – made up of members from the heart, constructed and put together by the Spirit of God, with His laws written on their hearts, and not by the hands and ways of Man. Take notice of what has happened at the day of Pentecost. There was a gathering of people who, touched by the Holy Spirit earlier chose to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. They had gathered together and then, SUDDENLY and due to nothing that they had done, the Holy Spirit fell upon them and then filled them. This exact same thing is happening today. The Holy Spirit is the one calling the shots moving into people who have received the Holy Spirits invitation to believe on Jesus Christ. Churches don’t do the converting. The three thousand souls at Pentecost converted and left. And God then, and even unto today, continues to harvest those who are his.

Physical Institutions vs. Spiritual Belief

Attempts at continuing a physical brick and mortar institution to replicate the singular recorded apostolic model have been remarkable FAIL since 70 AD. We can begin with Constantine and flow all the way down to the LDS claims at restoring the true brick and mortar physical institution (and beyond). None of them represent the Body of Christ perfectly but at best represent only a small fraction of it. But believers, who from the heart serve the true and living God (in and out of the physical religions) are what continue to thrive and shine light into the dark world. For Him. In this day, which is really not unlike the days of yore, we need to take all that has morphed into present day institutional religion and purposely work to deconstruct what we have built. See, when we allow ourselves to believe that Jesus has a brick and mortar on earth that has continued since this day of Pentecost we are forced to fabricate material evidences to support the claim –

“Look how much good our church has done!” is one of them. And then the churches embrace doing good rather than leaving that to the Body of real believers. “Look how many people belong to our church,” is another. And so the churches embrace business models and modes to build the churches and make them sustainable. “Look at the lifestyle of the members of our church compared to yours” and the churches institute rules and regulations as a means to produce such members, forgetting again the Gospel. “Look at how wealthy our church is,” is a fourth, and the church does all it can to gather more and more money so that it can do more and more good, so that it can reach more and more people, none of which fits the gospel of the heart of Jesus Christ which is –

The Gospel of the Heart

Few be there that find it . . . The poor not the rich in the world. . . The sinners strong in faith not the saints strong in self. . . All of these things appeal to physical church – they are the only way to quantify them. But look at the factual first Christian church that Jesus came and took – all they were doing was surviving – and barely so – waiting for Him to save them from destruction. In the meanwhile they grew in faith and love for each other amidst the trials and hope for His return. This model is not one bit different for us believers today. We are not powerful, we are not wealthy. We are bound in faith and love and we are waiting for Him to

The Concept of Deconstructing Christianity

Come and take us individually – to save us from destruction for those who die without Him. Since the end of the physical economy of His Church in 70AD Christ has reigned in the hearts of believers, has written his laws upon our hearts, has certainly used the man-made attempts to gather and produce people of faith but in the end, God does not live in a temple made with hands, but in those with a truly contrite heart and broken Spirit.

Deconstruction Now – of all that has been accepted and erected in the name of religious institutions! Just try and imagine it. All the pastors and reverends in America come together. They agree. They say, this is what we will do. First, we will teach the Word of God every Sunday to people who want to gather to hear it and to the best of our ability. We will let all people grow and hear as they are lead and let the Spirit lead. We will sell off our buildings and downside our massive overheads. We will get rid of staffs – they are not needed in the least since all we are doing is gathering to hear the Word taught. Because our overhead is lower we will stop passing plates and demanding tithes. And we will take all the money we gather in excess of our needs to literally support this same model being planted and set up in other areas of the world.

Challenges of Deconstruction

Look what we could do – if all pastors would deconstruct for the common good of Christ Jesus AND His people – downsize, reduce overhead, programs, shows, concerts, elaborate business models, trips to Israel . . . and just taught the word. Why won’t this work? Several reasons. First, all the pastors would never agree to this. Why would they? They have a good thing going – why would they sacrifice it? But even if they all did, someone would look around and say, “You know, I can do church BETTER. Sure we’ll teach the Bible but we could do this, and that . . . And guess what happens next? The people – who tire of the Word and want more comfort, and entertainment etc – start flocking from the deconstructed houses and into the houses of Reconstruction. And I would bet that the person who chose to reconstruct the deconstructed would honestly allow himself to believe He was doing a good thing, “I mean,” he would someday say, “look around at how many people come here. Look how much good we do. Look at how wealthy we are,” and even, “look how reputable our members look compared to yours.”

A Call for Deconstruction

I push and pray for the total deconstruction of all of Christianity today. I push and pray that pastors of the sheep will embrace Subjective Christian ways over the fails of traditional Objectified faith. I push and pray for the watching world to look in on believers today and for them to see us as people of kind faith, of devotion to God which translates in their minds to love and goodness. I push and pray for divisions and the monster brick and mortar Christianity has become to dissolve. I hope you will join me in this. Let’s open up the phone lines

Before we get to the calls and emails consider this new piece from Cassidy.

Viewer Feedback

From: Dan

Subject: Your Show

Message Body:

Shawn, I just happened upon your You Tube, which I found out to be pretty interesting/entertaining. I just recently found out about the hidden history of the church. You don’t have to fast, ponder and pray to know that the church isn’t true. All you have to do is read. I’ve only seen a few of your clips, so maybe you have already approached it in the manner that I would like to suggest. I think it would be more effective if you concentrated on the First Vision and the Book of Mormon. As you know The Book of Mormon is the keystone to the LDS religion. So is the First Vision. You’re attacking polygamy and about Jesus being a God, but as I can see on your clips, that is not effective. LDS don’t know about the first version of the First Vision. LDS don’t know that the golden plates were preserved for almost two thousand years so Joseph could translate them by not even looking at them and just by sticking his head in a hat with a stone. LDS don’t know about the View of

Understanding Mormonism and Its Challenges

The Hebrews, The Late War of 1812 (striplings 2,000 brave men), The First Book of Napoleon. They don’t know that Lehi’s dreams were Joseph’s father’s dreams. Once you get by that point, you can tell them that Warren Jeffs married 12-year-old girls and women that were married. Ask them what they think about that. If they say he is a pervert and obviously not a prophet, why don’t you ask why they give Joseph a pass even though he did the same things. Tell them they can verify his wives on familysearch.org. They can also verify on an approved church website, lds.org/josephsmithpapers regarding the different versions of the first version and of Joseph's polygamy/polyandry. I think you will have better luck with the above approach.

Sincerely,

Dan

The reason I read this email is to illustrate a couple of things. First, it’s really important before we seek to direct people we make sure we have observed the whole story, right? What caused Dan to write this to me before looking at all we do? He’s zealous. Why is he zealous. Because he has come to know the truth of Mormonism and is filled with a desire to share. This is why I read this email. I believe that all those who have come out of Mormonism in the past – due to the work of Sandra Tanner and others – are coming together as a new generation of apologists – and the former guard ought to help equip them and let them run with it. I say this because there is a tendency when you are involved in apologetics (long time) to lose track of the real purpose behind the work you do, and you can become blind to the fact that, in the case of the LDS, that they are human beings with families and children they love and are often very devout souls. When ministries roll along for decades focused on the same group there’s a tendency toward bitterness, anger, and like any religion, doing anything to ensure that the ministry remains viable and financially secure. Like governments, ministries ought to do their work for a decade or so and then pass the thing off to younger, fresher hands. It is not easy to do. But I have learned first-hand how rewarding, liberating, and revealing such a move can do for the soul and the ministry itself.

Covenant Eschatology and Its Implications

From: Gene H in Canada

Subject: covenant eschatology and mormonism

Message Body:

Hey Bro! My mind is exploding! I have been enjoying your videos for some time (as I lived awhile in Utah, and many family members are devout LDS). I came to understand fulfilled eschatology maybe 15/16 yrs ago just through Bible study. I was thrilled to eventually find others of like mind on “Pal Talk.” I have studied some of Don Preston’s books and could not believe he will visit you!! I wish I could come but live in B.C. Canada. Great things ahead!! p.s. Our family lived in Murray UT. 1963, the year JFK was assassinated. Historical note: In the early 1970's, Ted Bundy picked up a girl in Murray, (she was the only one to escape) Take care, keep up the great work, and as Don says “We’ll see ya on the flip side.”

Preterism and LDS Eschatology

Gene here points out something really really important. One of the main reasons I believe God opened my eyes to Preterism is because of our work with the LDS. See, if the churches could see the error of their ways on futurism and abandon dispensationalist views we could look to LDS people and their eschatology and prove them not only way off, but liberate them from the traps contained in futurism.

We are going to take a solid step in this direction by having Dr. Don Preston here on September 11 and 12th. This is a great opportunity for the state of Utah and we invite all challengers of Preterism to show up and ask their questions.

From: Adam N

Subject: How Subjective can it be?

Message Body:

Hi Shawn!

I have been watching your videos for several years. I want to start by saying that everything I ask here is a sincere question, and at times, I think you may be on to something. However, Faith in Christ is THE most essential thing in this life, which is why I must question everything that comes my way.

The Nature of Subjective Christianity

I grew up in church, and I’m not “sold” on any one church having all the answers or being perfect, although I do attend and serve in one church regularly. Some of what you say about “Subjective Christianity” confuses me. Certainly, the main thing is that a person believes that Jesus is God and that we are saved by grace. MUCH of the rest of doctrine is flexible. However, how can we say we both believe in the same God if one believes in eternal hell and another does not? Or one believes that Jesus already came and another believes He is coming soon? Or in the distant future? If someone says they know ME, and one says I like mushrooms, and another says I don’t like mushrooms, then really only one can be correct, yes?

And if they both claim that I TOLD them that I am coming to their house tomorrow at noon, only ONE can be correct, and the other did not really speak to me, right (or I lied, which is where the metaphor breaks down)? So, how can people have faith in one Jesus who both IS and IS NOT coming again? Who both CONDEMNS ETERNALLY and UNIVERSALLY RECONCILES people? Who both CHOOSES who will be saved (TULIP-style) and LETS US COME TO HIM? It seems to me that one of each of those pairs must be mistaken, and therefore not truly in fellowship with Christ. Thanks for your time!

Objectivity and Subjectivity in Understanding God

First let me say this – God and Jesus Christ and the Gospel are NOT subjective in and of themselves. Instead they are wholly OBJECTIVE and offer and stand upon unchanging eternal truth. What is Subjective is our limited human understanding and comprehension of them. And because this is the case our only approach to them as human beings is subjective as none of us comprehend anything about them completely – anything.

Adam’s examples are good – they are what have created the vast number of denominations around the world because all of them believe that there must be a single truth out there (relative to the topics Adam mentioned plus many more) and have sought to find and teach and demand them. But let me try and show that while there ARE answers and truths established by God on each of these topics (Calvinism vs Arminianism, universal reconciliation or eternal punishment, etc) we cannot be certain with the information that we have what they are – and God Himself has made it this way.

The Example of Diverse Perspectives

Suppose I am the father of four children – spread out with five years between each of them. Not only that, I am a noted public figure, an avid martial artist, and a student of philosophy. And I die. And all four children attend the funeral and so do my friends from martial arts and philosophy and a couple hundred from the public eye who were fans. And all were allowed to speak at this obscenely long funeral. And just for example's sake let’s say that all four of my children delivered very different views of me as their dad. Is this possible? Certainly. They all related to me at different stages of my life and all saw me through their own lens. But let’s also say they all agreed in their report that I was loving. That is the common thread. Are their respective reports wrong? Not in the least – in fact they are all right even though they are all different. Of course the public fans will do the same, as will those I trained with in martial arts and those with whom I studied philosophy. And this is just talking about one man!

Accepting Divine Mystery

Now we are talking about God for goodness sakes. Our interpretations of doctrine will certainly describe and define who He is and how we individually see Him but these are only our views of Him – and they are certainly not exhaustive nor will they ever be exhaustive while we remain in flesh. I think God allows for this and this paradox because in this comes the opportunity for knowing more of Him, for growth, and for a death to dogma. I think that when we get to the end of this road we reach a sign that says GOD. And we accept Him and any and all things this could possibly mean. We resign. We trust. And most importantly, we love.

So while your questions seem reasonable and rational,

Understanding the Nature of God

I would have to say that when applied to human beings the approach is impossible – we will never agree as people who love and believe in Him. So we have to approach the whole matter subjectively. Hope this helps.

Hi Shawn, It's your Aussie mate Rob Sonnet back again. I watched the seven God episodes you produced. I admired your courage to discuss so many aspects of God that most other teachers would avoid. I can see that you're not afraid of the truth and that you admit that you could be wrong. I am not afraid of truth and I also admit that I can be wrong. I enjoy the challenge of exchanging beliefs and ideas with you. There's so many things we could discuss. That's why I thought the nature of God to be the most important to start with. I believe that the nature of the Godhead is a very simple thing to understand. That man has complicated the nature of God. I strongly feel that the L.D.S view to be the most logical and biblically correct. An example is the truth of Jesus being the son of God. If Jesus and God the father were one and the same person, then Jesus would be the son of himself. He would have prayed to himself in the garden before his death and on the cross. It would have made Jesus a liar if he were the son of himself. I think the most relyable source in the bible is when Jesus is speaking in the first person. He prayes to his father so often. He tells his followers that he came from and was sent and will return to his father. He even taught his disciples how he and his father are one. John 17:21-22. This whole chapter in John is beautifully showing Jesus praying to his father and how they are one in purpose but seperate in body. Verses 21-22 proves that with out a doubt. So if any other part of the bible appears to contradict this, then it's obviously been taken out of context. Isaiah 44:6 tells there is two Lords. Anyway Shawn, I'm a lousy typist. It's a challenge for me to do all this typing. I enjoy your TV shows and I'm amazed at your faith and courage. You and I both share a common passion for the truth even though we differ in opinions. Thanks again bro for your respect. Regards from Rob.

Questions on Baptism and Faith

Hi Shawn,

I just wondered if you have advice about being baptized, having been baptized at 8 in a LdS church. We have a couple local Christian churches we attend. But I didn't know if it's okay to be baptized again (but in a real Church of Christ) if I've already been baptized Mormon. I am no longer Mormon, for the past few years (praise Jesus for saving me!) Amen brother, thank you.

Hi Shawn, We've emailed before. I was a jw before I became LDS and left the church a year ago. I'm having a hard time just wanting to read the Bible. I think I'm so used to having it interpreted for me that I'm scared of misinterpreting the scriptures. So I have stayed away from it. I don't know how to look at the Bible with fresh eyes. God Bless your show and ministry! With much appreciation and Christian Love, Stephanie Sunderland Bremerton, WA

A Young Seeker's Dilemma

Dear Shawn,

I am 15 years old, and have recently left Mormonism after looking at it from the outside. Your show has played a big part in helping me learn more about the flaws of Mormonism, and I would like to thank you a lot for that. However, I am not entirely convinced yet of joining Christianity. The reason why I originally left Mormonism is because of a simple question that I had been asking myself ever since I was young in the church, and had previously rejected because Mormonism just seemed too convincing to not be true at the time. Here's the question: Is it a selfish thing in order to go to heaven? To explain what I mean by this, I would like to give you a simple riddle, one that I have played repeatedly in my mind at a young age. Imagine that, at the pearly gates, you are told by God that you are going to heaven, for whatever requirements there are. If you choose to enter, you will be accepted and saved eternally, and live in paradise. However, you are also given the choice to go to Hell, and suffer for as long as what

Exploring the Concept of Salvation and Trinity in Christianity

The "Wrath of god" will. But here's the catch: If you choose to go to Hell, the person behind you, a sinner like you who did not do the things needed to go to heaven (However simple those requirements may be), will go to Heaven in your place while you suffer for him or her. Which is the right decision to make? Most people I ask agree that it would be a better thing to suffer for the sinner. It's the same ultimate act of love that Jesus did for all of us under the condition that we accept him as our Lord and Savior. And in this case, it would most likely be considered a selfish decision to go to heaven, while a person who has sinned as much as you (or maybe even less than you) will go to hell.

The Dilemma of Salvation and Selfishness

And though this hypothetical model of Heaven is not the same as what the Bible teaches, the same principle is the reason why I haven't moved into Christianity from Mormonism. To me, it would seem selfish for an elect few, who were lucky enough to belong to the correct faith, to go to heaven while the rest (And you should know, 45% of people don't believe in the monotheistic Abrahamic God, and 68% of people don't believe in Jesus Christ as God's son) will suffer in Hell, whether it be temporary or not. So my question to you is the same I asked myself when I left Mormonism. Why should I, or anybody else, join Christianity, when only a "lucky few" will be saved? I personally would rather suffer with those who do good works, but don't believe in Christ. And if it's not a selfish thing to go to heaven, in the case that 100% of people, or extremely close to that are going to heaven, then why should I join Christianity in the first place?

God bless you (If he exists),
Johnathan Sherbert

Understanding Trinitarian Theology

From: Trevor

Subject: you say subjective…But I say …most reactive…

Brother! Love your show..while subjective is a challenging word to combine with Christianity, I get it….

Full Preterist…not sold but considering, maybe after upcoming show …

Total Reconciliation….SOLD!…

Now…for the reactionary Christianity….I believe you have succumbed to this religion. The reactionary Christian, reacts overboard to certain doctrines…like John Macarther to the gifts…..Calvary Chapels to Calvinism…Calvary Chapels to Roman Catholic…Calvary Chapels to organized church while creating their own Super Sect…etc…

Where did this happen to you….:)…Trinity….in your reaction to the Church's dogmatic doctrines on many issues…and rightly so…I think you added trinity to the reaction to CHURCH….I ask and pray that you take a hard look…not at the word trinity…who cares, not in the bible….but in the fact that an eternal relational God must have a relationship eternally, as images of God, we are relational… created as relational beings….so for a self existent God, eternally, to be complete without need of creation…Father Son Spirit makes perfect sense….and I believe it's biblical…persons is our language so I don't like it, and like God, unexplainable….but..relationship, and the biblical language supports, eternal Father, eternal Son, Eternal Spirit…One Being of Spirit…three relationships….

Questions on Trinitarian Study

As a viewer, supporter and somebody who loves what you do, can you answer me these two questions?

Have you studied, in depth, trinitarian theology?

Have you read, James Whites, "The Forgotten Trinity"?
http://www.amazon.com/The-Forgotten-Trinity-James-White/dp/1556617259

And/or fellow "universalist" Robin Parry,
http://www.amazon.com/Worshipping-Trinity-Second-Edition-Worship/dp/1620321718

Your stance seems strong and I'm wondering if you've only studied anti trinitarians in reaction to Mormon and Calvary Chapel doctrines, or have you studied in