Heart of the Matter: Where Mormonism Meets Christianity

LIVE! From the “Mecca of Mormonism”
SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH
This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology.!
“Where Mormonism Meets Christianity Face to Face.”
Show 36 Seventeen Points – Part XVII
“By Their fruits” – Part III

And I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.

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Prominence of Joseph Smith in LDS Church

One of my children received this in the mail from a faithful member of the LDS Church – thought we’d share it with you tonight.

(Show insert of Joseph Smith deal)

At the bottom it reads:

“Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it.”
D&C 135:5

Aside from the obvious heinousness this thing represents to Christians, have you ever wondered why the LDS Church believes it’s necessary to constantly promote Joseph Smith in this manner? Why do they relentlessly make people accept his stuff? Isn’t Jesus enough? Wasn’t Jesus Christ able to deliver a gospel that could withstand the corruption of men? Or did Joseph have to do it?

I ask this because there is a very good point in the questioning. I mean, I suppose we can accept an occasional recognition or mention of a man who helped start a religious movement. But this weekly drip, drip, drip even to the exclusion of Jesus, is nothing short of diabolical.

This quote, included in the LDS scripture known as the Doctrine and Covenants was inflated enough. But compared to Joseph Smith’s own self-description, it anemic! Listen to what Joseph said about Himself:

“I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”
(From History of the Church, Volume 6., page 408-409)

These very words could have easily been spoken by David Koresh, Jim Jones, Sun Yun Moon, L. Ron Hubbard or Poe – but ask yourself, would the Apostle Paul have ever said such a thing? Peter? John?

How about . . .
Vernon McGee?
John Macathur
Swindol?
Chuck Smith?
Billy Graham?

When will you wake up, open your eyes, and ears, and heart, and see what your paying allegiance too, my friends?

Examining an Old Testament Verse

All right, before we get to our message, we’re going to take a minute and

SET THINGS STRAIGHT!
(BIG GRAPHIC HERE)

Today’s verse is going to be from the Old Testament and it’s a verse the LDS have long used to biblically support the Book of Mormon: Two weeks ago we mentioned that in the LDS King James Version of the Bible, the preface to these verses said:

So let’s go to our trusty white board and break this verse down, shall we?

Ezekiel 37:15 ¶ The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in

Examining Revelations and Scriptural Substantiation

We’ve been talking on the “Seventeen Points” that the LDS claim are signs of the true church and the seventeenth point states:
“By their fruits ye shall know them.”

Two weeks ago we spoke about the first fruits of Joseph Smith – deception. Remember, if any ANY of the fruits of a prophet (that he suggests come from the LORD) are bad, then he is a bad prophet. Tonight, I want to introduce you to another fruit Joseph Smith introduced to the world – and Mormonism today still operates upon it:
“Revelation without scriptural substantiation” or in other words, the idea of getting people to rely on “their own feelings to determine truth” instead of reason, facts, and the Word of God.

The Book of Mormon Challenge

Mormon missionaries from all over the world give what is called the Book of Mormon Challenge. Missionaries throw this challenge out to people as a means to test whether the Book of Mormon is true. Joseph Smith actually included the premise in the Book of Mormon itself when he had the fictional character Moroni write:
“And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.”

The LDS believe that this manifestation will come to the heart of a sincere seeker of faith by way of feelings and emotional responses. This test or challenge is nothing but a carnival trick. When a person is challenged, the only “acceptable result” would be to claim to have received the witness of the truth of it because the qualifications required to know the truth about it are that you must “ask with real intentions and sincerity and with faith in Jesus Christ” in order to get the confirmation that it is a true book! Therefore, if you don’t get the confirmation, whose fault is it?

It’s YOURS! You lack the faith, YOU lack the sincerity, YOU lack real intention. “Now, get back in there, Ma’am and really really bear down hard – squint your eyes, sister, and sincerely ask if the book is not true!” Again, the onus for veracity falls upon your ability to be genuine and real and sincere and faith-filled. You see, to the LDS, it is not possible for the book to be wrong. Therefore, YOU must be wrong.

There are few more entertaining things around than when a Latter-day Saint asks you if you read the book of Mormon and prayed about it to say: “Yes, I did.” And what was the answer. “That it was untrue.” “But, that can’t be.” “No, Elder, it be.” “But you must not have really prayed.” “Oh, let me tell you, I prayed.” “But, did you understand the promise? Were you sincere.” “I was Elder. The book is false.” “But . . . but the challenge promises, promises . . . promises!”

Examining the Challenge with Biblical Standards

The whole enchilada is faulty from the start. First, let's look at the challenge itself. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever ask you to pray to know the Bible is true. Why? Because the Bible stands on its own merits. It has a real history. From real places and people. (Show book)

SO while we are requested to go to God for “wisdom” – which is knowledge applied, listen to what God says in the Word about finding truth:

1st John 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2nd Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Speaking of the Berean’s, Luke wrote that they: “received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” We have a manual of God’s Word, and by it we test and compare and research all things. This book is frankly out of this world. And in it, the apostles of Jesus Christ – who were trained and made clean by His Word, recorded the Word of God for the body of Christ.

Don’t ever forget Galatians 1:6-8 which says:
Galatians 1:6-8 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ

Evaluating Beliefs Under the Lens of Scripture

Unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Ask ANY knowledgeable Bible teacher, scholar or believer who also understands Mormonism if Mormonism is “another gospel” and without equivocation they will say “without question.”

2nd Corinthians 11:13-15 reiterates

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Testing Beliefs

It is not biblical to pray if a Book is True, one must test what it has to say! If it contradicts what has already been said, it fails. God is NOT a God of contradiction. Now many people will say, “they know the Church or the Book of Mormon is true because they really, really feel that it is.”

Should we pray whether it is right to follow Anton Levey’s Satanic Bible? How do we know that we won’t suddenly feel that it is correct too? No, we DON’T pray over Anton Levey’s Satanic Bible because God has already spoken against Satanist philosophy, therefore to pray about it, no matter how much we WANT it to be true, is counter-intuitive! To “accept” or “believe” in something because you really feel it is right cannot make the thing true. Instead, you set yourself up to be deceived.

The Role of Emotionalism in Belief

Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen. I’ve mentioned this before, but one of Hitler’s henchmen said something to the effect that you cannot understand Hitler by reason, you can only understand him by feeling. Hitler manipulated millions of people – hard-working, industrious, moral people – to heinous action through emotionalism.

Otto Dietrich, Head of Hitler’s Press Service once said: “By nature Hitler was a bohemian. He allowed himself to be guided almost exclusively by emotional considerations.” Emotionalism is dangerous in ANY form of belief delivery system. We are all aware that to win over a crowd we can resort to tears, laughter, guilt, and anger to move them any way we want.

Revelation without scriptural substantiation was a hallmark trait of Joseph Smith. He could conjure up an answer to just about anything and they present it with such feeling and emotion that all would follow. This spirit lives on today. Attend a fast a testimony meeting at an LDS Church if you want to witness it. Even easier, go to YouTube and search out these self-appointed LDS defenders of the faith and listen to their messages – especially pay attention to their use of music – when it starts to play:

The True Gospel

We have a manual that includes the only True Gospel of Jesus Christ. People of all Christian faiths and sects use it, turn to it, trust it. When you want truth, turn to the manual, and run as fast as you can from these sugary sweet emotionalists who pander to the heart strings instead of to the facts.

We’re going to conclude with a Youtude clip of a woman telling us how she came to know that Mormonism is “true." Understand, her method of determining truth is exactly what all mad-men have used to sway people into their lurid visions of truth.

And with that, let’s go to the phones:

(801) 973-8820
(801) 973-TV20

LDS callers, please
First time callers, please.
Turn off the television
Keep your question short.

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CONCLUSION

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God bless you, we’ll see you next week, here on HOTM!