The Intersection of Mormonism and Biblical Christianity

Where Faiths Meet

“LIVE FROM THE MECCA OF MORMONISM”
• SALT LAKE CITY UTAH –

This is Heart of the Matter, where Mormonism meets Biblical Christianity, face to face. Show 10 BOM 40 Harvest E
March 6th 2012

And I’m Shawn McCraney, your host. We praise the True and Living God for allowing us to participate in this ministry. May He be with you (and us) tonight.

Ministry and Music

SUNDAYS? 10am and 2:30 we hold church. Milk at 10 am, Meat at 2:30 pm. Join us. Go to www.c-a-m-p-u-s.com for more information.

One of the things that makes CAMPUS unique is our music. No, it is NOT hyper appealing. No, it does not come with a light show, major amplification, or human beings standing before you to admire. It’s just the Word of God put to music. We have a sampling prepared for you:

(PLAY PROMO VIDEO OF “In His Words” HERE)

Now, there’s nothing wrong with Christian music – it’s often a wonderful artistic expression of people’s hearts toward the Lord and inspires many in their reflections on Him, but at CAMPUS we are ALL about the Word – learning it, hearing it, thinking upon it. If you would like to learn the Word (at least seventeen verses of it) that has been put to music – go to www.hotm.tv and pick up a CD.

Alright… Also on Sundays Heart of the Matter replays on AM 820 The Truth. So tune in.

Upcoming Events

Okay, this coming Saturday (March 10th) we are holding our annual Open Water Baptism. Where? 9am in Logan at the Alpine Church, 12pm in Riverdale at the Alpine Church, 3pm in Salt Lake City at the Adventure Church, 6pm in Provo at the Provo Baptist Church. Bring a towel, a change of clothes, and a desire to publicly commit your life to the Lord.

Friday Nights at 8pm right here on TV20 tune in as Bishop Earl interviews people who were once LDS and are now born-again Christians. The name of the show? The Ex-Files. Want to be interviewed? Email Bishop Earl at www.mormonexfiles.tv

And this coming Summer we are going to try and reach out to any place in the Nation that wants to hear the facts about the Mormon/Christian debate. Now grab a paper and pen and take note of when we will be in your part of the country. Ready? Let er run! (SHOW CLIP of New and Improved Clip here)

Now this is a “grass roots” outreach so we need your help in getting before the body. If you have the time and inclination of the Lord, go tell the pastors in your area that we’re a coming and let’s see if we can help equip the churches in your area with the truth of Mormonism.

Been invited to be on Doris Hanson’s program this week to talk about our newest book: “Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity Face to Face: An A to Z Doctrinal Comparative.” Doris Hanson, Polygamy: What Love is This? This Thursday Night LIVE – right here on KTMW TV 20.

If you want to get the new hardback copy, dust-covered, re-edited copy of “Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity Face to Face,” you can obtain one at: Lifeway Christian bookstores, Berean Bookstores, and Family Christian Bookstores around the nation. You can also pick one up from UTLM.org or by going online and ordering one from us directly at www.hotm.tv

Finally, you can also go to Amazon.com and order a soft back through them. We praise God for making this book available in so many places at this important time in the Mormon/Christian debate.

From the Word

In John Chapter 4 there is an account of Jesus healing a certain nobleman’s son.

47 And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum. When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son: for he was at the point of death. Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe. The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die. Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way. We know from the rest of the scripture…

Mormonism and Methods of Healing

What does this have to do with the Mormon/Christian debate? It relates to methods of healing. You see, men and their religious – especially proprietary religions like Mormonism which claims a priesthood – well, they have established systems by which God operates through men. These systems or methods are often applied to things like: How to pray (the LDS say there is a proper order of prayer that comes in the use of a proper and acceptable form of speaking – King’s English. They say there is a set prayer for certain things like their communion, and they say there is a method or system in which their priesthood functions best – like when attempting to heal someone.

Where Jesus employed all manner of deliveries for healings and was not about to be boxed in to specific religious rituals, man-made religions today love to resort to “pro-forma” applications to healing, giving blessings, saying prayers and the like. Years ago when I was active a good friend of our family was diagnosed with stage five brain cancer. I decided to invite a bunch of LDS friends over to his home to gather around him and pray for healing. Prior to the prayer being offered, the Bishop of the ward said, out loud to all who came (and there was about twenty people who showed up) the Bishops actually said: “He’s already had a priesthood blessing so I’m really not sure what this will accomplish outside of that.”

You see, when a religion can simmer all the nuance and intricacies of human beings reaching out to God to a few rituals, the direct relationship, guided by the Holy Spirit is pretty much lost. Here with the certain nobleman Jesus simply tells him his son was healed. And He was. No laying on of hands. No oil. No touching (in this case). Just the petition of a man to God.

Finally, last week, as I sat on an exercise bike at a gym here in Salt Lake City trying to fight the ever difficult battle of staying healthy, a woman there in the club dislocated her shoulder while working with some weights. By the volume of her screams she was in serious pain. Her screaming escalated as a guy endeavored (and apparently succeeded after a while) in putting her shoulder back in place. All around me I could hear the comments of the local Relief Society ladies who gather there in the gym every morning. All of them seemed to agree that in no way would any of them allow their shoulder to be put back in place UNLESS they were knocked out – completely. In other words, anesthetized so as to feel no pain whatsoever.

A Protected World

After months of watching and taking mental notes of these Relief Society gals, I realized, hearing their thoughts on experiencing pain, that they exist in a very protected world. It is a world of I want as little conflict as possible. A life where any and all emotional or spiritual upheaval is kept to a minimum and if upheaval occurs it must be dialed down so as not to impede on their trek toward exaltation. “Don’t confuse me with anything – even the facts,” they all seem to say, “let me live in my world of delusion and I will let you live in whatever world you wish.”

Listening to the women I was so tempted to point out that while it certainly is painful to put things like shoulders and doctrine in their proper place, the rewards of inhabiting a sound body and spiritual mind are not only well worth the adjustments but require a willingness to face painful uncertainty, unrelenting truth, and simply put – God – as He is and not as we want Him to be. But experience told me my words would have fallen on deaf ears – ears that are deaf because the sound of truth is just too threatening to them . . . too costly, too painful. And so they, like many LDS, remain willfully anesthesized.

The Heart of the People

There is a reason Jesus, in reference to the lost, said . . .

“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

And with that, let’s have a word of prayer.

Prayer PRAYER Prayer PRAYER

Prayer

Examination of Book of Mormon Claims

So we’re going to just keep on adding onto the pile of difficulties a thinking person would discover merely opening an original copy of Joseph Smith’s Book of Mormonion. Including all we have mentioned in the past four programs, let’s add these things to the pile (just for fun).

The book of Mormon mentions the following things (we have yet to discuss) in its imaginative pages.

• The presence of silk (Alma 1:29)
• Chariots (Alma 18:9) (where are the wheels)
• A seven-day week (Mosiah 13:18) (not known to Ancient Americans)
• Cimeters (Old-World two-handed steel blades) Mosiah 9:16
• Bellows (1 Nephi 17:11) huh?
• Brass and iron (2 Nephi 5:15)
• Breast Plates & Copper (Mosiah 8:10)
• Gold and Silver currency (Alma 11)
• Silver (Jarom 1:8)
• Steel Swords (Ether 7:9, 2 Nephi 5:14)

All of these are the subject of extreme spin when explained by LDS apologists for having been around in Pre-Colombian America.

The Object Called "The Liahona"

But the thing I want to talk about most tonight is an object in the Book of Mormon Joseph calls…

“The Liahona.”

I tend to think of Joseph’s Liahona no differently than his fictional word for the planet closest to God (which he called “Kolob”) or the impromptu name he assigned to a supposed Lamanite warrior whose bones were unearthed in the prophet's presence (Joseph called him “Zelph”).

When you’re a member of the Church and you hear these names enough, you start to think of them as normal. It’s only when you step away from the group and really begin to think about this stuff that you find yourself REALLY embarrassed you ever bought into it all. But anyway, in the Book of Mormon, this object called “the Liahona” is introduced.

Introduction of the Liahona

Several LDS sources have suggested that the Liahona was included in the stone box Joseph found on his hill Cumorah (along with the Golden Plates, and Urim and Thummim), but no official Church announcement has stated this was so. So what about this thing?

The Liahona first appears in the first book called Nephi in the Book of Mormon. And this is how Joseph says it shows up:
9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness. From verse nine we know that the first patriarch of the Book of Mormon Lehi was directed to take his group and travel. This is the pretext to the arrival of the Liahona.
(verse 10)
10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground “a round ball of curious workmanship”; and it was of “fine brass.” And within the ball were two spindles; and (Listen) the one pointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

Now, remembering that Lehi was commanded to travel, and then this Liahona pops up and “pointed” (with the arms of two spindles) “the way whither they should go in the wilderness,”

Functionality of the Liahona

What would you think this thing called the Liahona was?

That’s right, a compass. And by the description, you’d think it described a magnetic compass. When I was a kid, that’s what our scout leaders used to say the Liahona was – a compass like the ones we would use out on hikes.

Verse 16 of chapter 16 gives more insights into the ball's ability (it has yet to be identified by the Liahona name in the narrative). Verse 16 says:

16 And we did follow the directions of the ball,

The Significance of the Liahona

Which led us “in the more fertile parts of the wilderness. So this compass was more than just a director, but it possessed the power to lead the group “to the more fertile parts of the wilderness.” In other words, it was somewhat magical in its abilities leading people to locations of material prosperity.

The brass ball also possessed other capabilities. It would deliver messages which would (somehow) appear on the sides of it. In the same chapter, the group experiences a period of time when they ran out of food. Well Nephis Father Lehi starts a complaining and verse 26-27 says:

26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

Now the impressive power of this brass ball is really manifesting itself! I mean, this thing is supremely powerful, an object of great value to these wandering families.

Nephi's Faith in the Liahona

Well, after receiving a stern written warning written somehow on the ball, Lehi’s son Nephi, who is always a strong, worthy man (and who is merely a characterization of how Joseph Smith saw himself) he takes a gander at the ball of brass (verse 28-29)

28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.

It is at this point that the worthy and faithful Nephi locates food for the family, because he was faithful in believing the directives of the ball.

When we look back to the history of Joseph Smith Jr. (who claimed to be a seer and prophet with amazing skills at “seeing” things) and compare it to his own father (who was a failed seer and constantly out of the way because of wine) we detect an almost autobiographical side to these early chapters of Joseph’s Book of Mormon. (But more on these themes later).

Alma's Revelation

Anyway, later on in the Book of Mormon narrative, a Book of Mormon hero named Alma reveals the name of the brass ball of curious workmanship, saying hundreds of years later:

38 And now, my son, I have somewhat to say concerning the thing which our fathers call a ball, or director—or our fathers called it Liahona, which is, being interpreted, a compass; and the Lord prepared it.

Now critics of the Book of Mormon charge that the description of the Liahona as a "compass" is totally anachronistic because as we said the magnetic compass was not known in 600 B.C.

In defense of this, Mormon apologist group “FAIRS” (which stands for “Freaking Asinine Insights Relative to Scripture) anyway, FAIRS says that the term “compass” merely refers to the Liahona being round NOT because it was a compass that gave directional insight. I swear. This is their defense. I mean, the thing POINTS in specific directions for people traveling or hunting for food AND the Book of Mormon itself calls it a COMPASS . . . BUT BECAUSE it has been proven that the compasses did not exist in the world at this time FAIRS defends the Liahona being called a COMPASS by saying all compass means is it was round. They justify this idiocy by saying: “In every case, it is clear that, at least in Jacobean England, the word compass was regularly treated as meaning either a round object, or something which moved in a curved fashion."

But here’s the problem: neither Joseph Smith nor the Nephites nor any of us has ever lived in Jacobean England! Good grief can the Mormon spin doctors get any more ridiculous? I guess they can and will. But see this is the way Mormon apologists defend all the strange anachronistic stuff in the book of

Examination of the Liahona's Role in Mormonism

Mormon – they pretty much say that it is the questioner who fails to understand the text NEVER the text itself. The Book of Mormon calls the Liahona a director, uses it in the sense of guiding people, calls it a compass, leads people to specific places but since it couldn’t have been a compass like we understand compasses, FAIR idiots say it was called a compass because it was round! This is why they call horses in the Book of Mormon “tapirs” (because it has been proven that horse couldn’t have existed in the Americas at the time), and have redefined Book of Mormon “steel” (which was used for swords and bows and which couldn’t have existed at that time either), as “volcanic glass,” and Book of Mormon coins (none of which having ever been found) as not being of gold or silver (even though the Book of Mormon says they are!) Unbelievable.

Properties of the Liahona

But looking back at the Liahona, I think it’s important to also consider it in other lights (outside of whether it was supposed to be a compass or not). Notice several things about how the Book of Mormon describes the Liahona. First of all, the brass ball of curious workmanship shows up magically outside the tent door of the BOM character Lehi. Secondly, the ball works to give mystical and magical directions. By believing in it, that it will work, the ball’s spindles move and point the direction the bearer or holder should travel. And it points to places of prosperity (to the more fertile parts of land).

Sound like similar properties Joseph claimed his peepstones possessed when he was digging for money? Then, the curious brass ball also has the ability to deliver written messages on its surface, in one situation, even scaring Father Lehi nearly to death the message was so menacing. Didn’t Joseph similarly receive revelations – even written messages before his eyes – from his peepstone? He did. Then Smith describes the ball as having the power to give “understanding.” Hmmmmmm.

Connections and Cultural Impact

Given Joseph Smith’s long and proven background in the occult, with diving rods, magic peepstones, and other methods of scrying in order to find direction, understanding, and the locations of material blessings,” does the presence of this magic ball in the most correct book on the face of the earth surprise anyone?

As we have long said on this program, “from the seed comes the tree, and from the tree comes the fruit, and from the fruit another seed, and so on, and so on, and so on.” Today, the Liahona continues to play a role in the Mormon mindset and culture. The LDS Church publishes a monthly magazine titled “the Liahona” which they send out into the world. Here in Utah there are private schools called Liahona, and missionary retail stores of the same name. There’s the “Liahona Children’s Foundation,” and even in Texas there’s a Mormon run “Liahona Venture’s” which claims to be an investment firm.

Having been LDS forty years the magical and mythical nature behind the thing called the Liahona is one thing but having been a stockbroker for 13 years I had to look up the mindset of an investment group who would actually call itself, “Liahona Ventures.”

So I looked these “capital managers” up on line. Listen to how Liahona Ventures describes itself online:

“Here at Liahona Ventures, we believe in doing well by doing good. We are dedicated to adding value to those we work with and making our community a better place. Beyond monetary contribution, we pledge time and resources to supporting youth opportunity, family advocacy, cultural arts, consumer education and debt reduction.” Then under the subtitle “What we do:” it reads (and this is verbatim – spelling and grammar correct) “We are a nimble boutique investment fund that does not use portfolio theory or other commonplace approach to generate return on investment. Simply put, we make hands-on investments with principals we respect, in the consumer space, in areas that we have domain expertise. Since we invest our own money and are entrepreneurs ourselves the first thing you will notice is a strong deviation from the adversarial and undifferentiated approach of most investment funds. We prefer to get involved early roll up our sleeves and carry a capital efficient business through to exit. Occasionally, for more capital intensive opportunities, we fill the seed round and position our investment for institutional partnership with a larger fund.”

Beat – Long beat – long beat with a face.

It is not AT ALL surprising that Utah – a state with the highest number of

Financial Scams and Religious Influence

People who actually believe in magical mythical tools like a Liahona is also the state with the HIGHEST number of financial scams in the nation – which was also the driving force behind Joseph forming his “church” and continues to remain the driving force behind its existence today.

Industry Behind the Church

Let’s open up the phone lines: (801) 973-8820 (801) 973-TV20 First time callers, please. LDS callers preferred. Hey! If the Lord – the Lord – not me or anyone else – leads you to support this ministry through prayer, volunteerism, or financially, please consider the following.

Open Water Baptisms

Remember, this Saturday, March 10th, join us at the following locations for our Open Water Baptisms: If not, we’ll see you next week here on HOTM! Show graphic again.