Introduction

“LIVE FROM THE MECCA OF MORMONISM”

• SALT LAKE CITY UTAH –

This is Heart of the Matter, where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity, face to face. Show 4 BOM 34 – Cultivation B January 24th 2012

And I’m your host, Shawn McCraney

We praise the True and Living God for allowing us to participate in this ministry. May He be with you (and us) tonight.

Heart of the Matter can be seen right now from anywhere in the world via streaming video. You can also go to our archives and watch ANY past program. All of this is available by going to www.hotm.tv

Community Support

Join us as we seek to support the Salt Lake Rescue Mission who feeds and clothes the homeless. How can you help? Bring new socks (the ones still wrapped in the bags) and new or “nearly new” winter coats for males or females here to the station between 9am and 3pm M-F and we will take them in bulk over to the mission. So far we have had great success with a number of people even going out and buying new coats for the less fortunate. Praise Him.

Hey, we hold church deconstructed every Sunday (God willing) at 10 am in a Gathering called MILK and at 2:30 pm in a Gathering we call MEAT. Child-care is available at the 10 am gathering only. Expect the teaching to be at the Milk and the Meat level. Want more info? Go to www.c-a-m-p-u-s.com

Also on Sundays you can hear replays of Heart of the Matter on AM 820 the Truth! An excellent Christian radio station here in Utah. AM 820 Da Trut!

New Initiatives and Announcements

We’re also producing a brand new television program called “the Ex-Files.” It’s hosted by Bishop Earl and will begin to air in February of 2012. Take a look (show Ex-Files clip here). We need people who were once LDS, and are now Christian, to come on air and share your story. Interested? Go to www.exmormonfiles.tv and sign up. We’ll be in touch. That’s . . . www.exmormonfiles.tv

Recently we’ve had some complaints about there being too “many announcements” at the beginning of each show – one woman said that this reminded her of an LDS sacrament meeting. Please try and remember, this is a television program NOT a church service. One purpose for our existence is to let our viewers in on things that may assist them in their exit from Mormonism. These things include church services, ambassadors living near them, new shows and even products. Simultaneously, these things also serve to support the ministry. Okay?

Reflections from the Word

Alright, how about a moment, “From the Word?”

Last week we read in John 3:1-3 where Nicodemus came to Jesus by night and the Lord said to him, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” We pointed out some themes about the need to be born-again, the LDS myth of a pre-mortal existence, and the fact that birth is always a singular event, not one that takes a lifetime. We’ll let’s read on and hear Nicodemus’ response:

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? See, Nicodemus took Jesus imperative and related it to physical things – the literal birth of a man from his mother. So he says to Jesus, “How can I be born-again? Crawl back into the womb and then come back out?”

I think there are two important things to consider from this:

First, Nicodemus likened the Lord’s teaching to something physical, something natural, like literally being born-again through a birth-mother again.

Secondly, Jesus was speaking of a non-material birth – a spiritual birth – which did not involve the impossibility (and impracticality) of another PHYSICAL birth. Why is this important? Because the Lord likens spiritual rebirth to natural birth.

Now listen to how Jesus responds to Nicodemus’ thinking rebirth was material rebirth:

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Why does Jesus list two births here – “unless a man be born of water” (one) “and of the Spirit” (two) when he said a man must be born again, referring to only one rebirth? Hmmmm?

There are a number of factors that make a clear understanding of what Jesus is saying here difficult if they are not understood.

First, Jesus earthly ministry was first to the House of Israel (Jews) and would only go to non-Jews after Acts chapter 10 and long after He Himself ascended.

The Teachings of Jesus to Nicodemus

Secondly, the Lord was speaking to a Jew of Jews – a Pharisee. And His response was fitted both to His earthly mission to the house of Israel AND to the man to whom He was speaking – a Jew. Third, Jesus came and fulfilled the Law and the prophets. Everything He said would be in compliance to it, in reference to it, and in His fulfillment of it. Got all that background?

To pick these passages up, as the LDS are wont to do, read them in the English, and state they mean a person must be baptized in water to be born-again is like walking into the Pacific Ocean, going under water, opening your eyes, and seeing nothing but sand and water, coming out and claiming “no fish live in the sea!” There is FAR more information to the story-line that needs to be considered.

Finally, because Jesus is the master teacher, he is addressing all parties involved – both the Jews in front of Him and us, the Gentiles, who will read His words later. His teachings therefore incorporate aspects that amazingly apply to all men equally. Okay? So, first, let’s see what Jesus is saying here to Nicodemus, a Jew of Jews.

The Symbolism of Water in the Old Testament

The emblematic symbol for the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament was washing of water. It was a picture of the Spirit of God cleansing a person seeking to live the Law of God. When someone in the Old Testament was washed or baptized in water they were making a solemn promise to renounce idolatry, to take the God of Israel as his God, and to attempt to live a life conformed to the precepts of the Divine law. This was important to the Jew.

But the water which was used was only an emblem of the Holy Spirit whom Jesus promised to send. Water is one thing as a type, but the Spirit is the only thing as the fulfillment of the type. When John the Baptist came baptizing with water, he clearly stated that this type of symbolic washing would not suffice, saying:

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

In other words, that which was a type for the Holy Spirit to the Jews – water baptism – while good, would not suffice and in the end really meant nothing IF the baptism of the Holy Spirit didn’t exist.

Application to the Gentiles

Then, let’s look at the teaching as it applies to gentiles. How many of us have experienced religious water rites because we grew up in religion? If so, Jesus is saying, that is one thing (for the flesh) but it is not the THING. A person must be born of the Spirit to see the Kingdom of God. Soooo . . . (stay with me) whether Jesus’ teaching applied to the Jews and their practice of water ablutions (like the one delivered by John in the flesh) or if He was speaking to Gentiles who thought water baptism meant something, the New Birth is by and through the baptism of Spirit ONLY.

To support this just listen to what Jesus says in the next verse (6). Whether we are talking about our first physical birth, Jewish ablutions in water, or Gentile religious rites like baptism, Jesus says to Nicodemus:

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The Misinterpretation of Being Born Again

Then to show that this such fleshly events have NOTHING to do with organized religion or man, like water ablutions and baptisms often do, Jesus adds:

8 The wind bloweth where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The LDS plainly and errantly state that being born-again comes by and through religious ordinances supplied by men. In fact, Joseph Smith said:

“Being born again comes by the Spirit of God through ordinances.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Page 162)

Jesus says we can’t tell who or how or when the Holy Spirit will regenerate a person – it's like the wind and Joseph claimed the EXACT opposite. Who you gonna believe . . . and follow?

And with that let’s have a word of prayer.

The Book of Mormonion's Origins

PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER

So, the Book of Mormonion is about to come forth in its original form. We know that if Joseph started in on the transcription in September before Oliver arrived he would have had to produce two pages a day until he finished in July of 1829 with Oliver at his side. And if he had waited for Oliver to arrive to start in, they would have had to produce 9 pages of text a day from the time Oliver arrived (April of 1829) to when they finished (in July of the same year).

I know I have been redundant these past few shows, but every serious investigator into the validity of the BOM must ask themselves: Could I or someone with an imaginative mind, have produced a book like the Book of Mormonion? Before you answer, remember

Necessary Pre-Conditions for the Book's Creation

  • From a very young age you had to be exposed to constant biblical teachings and references by your religiously devout mother.
  • You had to have spent a considerable amount of time at religious revivals observing the religiously inclined, their claims, speech patterns, divisions, and difficulties.
  • You had to have honed some skills (from a very young age) in convincing people you could "see" spirits and treasure underneath the ground by looking in peep stones.
  • You have to have claimed you were shown plates the source of your translation (golden plates) nearly seven years before ever producing a manuscript. In other words, this means you would have six years minimum to create at least an outline for your story.
  • You had to have a brother (Hyrum, who later became a witness to the plates) who had received an early education from what would become Dartmouth college who might have been able to contribute to your efforts.
  • From a young age you had to have been exposed to serious discussions and debates regarding the origins of the American Indians.
  • You had to have read books about the topic, about Indian mounds in the area and to have actually been involved seeking for buried treasures left behind by these ancient peoples.
  • You had to possess the innate ability to entertain your family with descriptions of the ancients lands, dress, customs, governance, wars, and cities years before even beginning to translate your book.
  • You and your family also had a keen interest, dating all the way back to your grandparents, in the early church of Jesus Christ being restored here in the America’s.
  • And you have to include these themes of a restored church, popularized by Alexander Campbell, in your new book. These themes you openly include:

Themes and Influences

  • A rejection of a paid clergy, titles, and denominationalism.

  • A rejection of Calvinistic Theology.

  • The restored Church using only the name of Jesus Christ.

  • A belief that God's kingdom was to be established in America (a process known as "building Zion").

  • The rejection of all Christian creeds.

  • A belief in an apostasy and a need for a reformation.

  • A faith AND works doctrine.

  • A focus on sequential acts that lead to salvation.

  • A frontier-based “spirit of self-reliance.”

  • A restitution of tithing.

  • A refocus on Sabbath-day activities.

  • A need for the Bible to be retranslated.

  • The repulsion of secret societies and combinations.

  • An agrarian attitude (meaning people should work with ones own hands).

  • And strong anti-Catholic themes.

  • From your access to newspapers, books, periodicals, and discussions relative to the origins of the American Indians, you take the liberty and include such information into your book too! These sources include:

  • The Apocryphal writings included in many early American Bibles (see particularly the Book of Maccabees)

  • James Adair’s History of the American Indians

  • Josephus’ War of the Jews

  • Ethan Smith’s View of the Hebrews

  • Articles from the October 22 1823 Wayne Sentinel

  • Possibly things from Solomon Spaulding's Manuscript Found

  • The preface to the King James Bible printed in 1769, and

  • The Golden Pot by Eta Hoffman

  • Without fear you will also allow yourself to include a whole bunch of popular American political themes in your book as well. These include:

  • Frontier ideals that helped ward off enemies like anarchy and tyranny from the new republic.

  • A personal dedication to "industriousness."

  • An agrarian approach to labor.

  • The virtue of avoiding luxury (which included wearing fine apparel)

  • A rejection of secret combinations or groups like the Masons.

  • A disdain for lawyers and merchants.

  • A hatred for those who practiced “priestcraft.”

  • Then you have to have a relative (who's hometown Pastor actually wrote one of the most popular books on the topic of the American Indians coming from Jerusalem to the Americas) who comes and serves as your scribe?

“Could you or a person with these liberties, experiences, and skills, compose a book like this??”

  1. Then you have

The Creation of the Book of Mormonion

To format an outline which you might pin inside of your hat to help you when your imaginative, Bible-base narrative went dry?

  • Could you, on your own, with all of this history, background, experience, and innate talent, compose a book like this?
  • If not, do you think you could do it if you had a group of friends and relatives of similar ambitions and background help out?
  • Do you think you could bring forth this book, allowing yourself to let it be full of mistakes, errors, and problems prior to it being edited and re-edited in the years to come if you had the help and support of Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdery, Joseph Smith Sr., Hyrum Smith, and the Whitmers – most of whom would also serve as witnesses of the plates themselves?

The LDS always ask:

How did Joseph write the book? We don’t know . . .

Anymore than we know how Mohammed came up with his words, how Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, how the Bronte sisters wrote such gorgeous prose, or how Karl Marx wrote Das Kapital. We don’t know. But we do know what motivated these writers, what enabled them, what encouraged them, and what helped them create what they created in the end. And we know these things by examining what experiences they had, what influences they were exposed to, and what resources they used. The same holds true for Joseph Smith and his “Book of Mormonion.”

Completing the Book of Mormonion

So after Oliver Cowdery joined Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormonion was completed and ready for publication by June of 1829. We’ve concluded the planting, watering, weeding and the complete cultivation of the Book of Mormonion over these past programs. We’ve chased away the varmints that threatened its survival. Next week will unearth the product, examine it generally, and begin to get it ready for the eating.

Let’s open up “da phonius lineous’s- es – es”
801 973-8820
801 973-tv20

We love LDS callers. We want first time callers. And no consuming large quantities of alcohol or drugs before making the call.

Audience Interaction

While we wait for our operators, let’s read a few emails and make a few remarks:

Dave
mietz@aol.com

Hi Shawn,

I enjoy your show very much and find it interesting you don't think Mormans are Christians. Well I just want to tell you I'm a Mormon and have accepted Jesus Christ as my sole Savior and Lord but chose to go to a church that teaches only the Bible. I don’t believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet, nor that there are modern day prophets and apostles. I also don’t believe Jesus is an angel in the Spirit family of the Devil, nor that God gives new revelation adding to scripture nor that I can progress to be god of my own world by following the ordinances of the Mormon church with its priesthood. With all that said, does that still make me a Morman? If not, I'm OK with just being a Christian for now because I'm not good enough to be anything else.

Jason Hayes

Shawn why do you hate the mormon church? Also why do you have to make money on bashing what taught you good values? just because you doesn't mean you have to do things to disprove the church an turn people away because they listen to you let them find out what they want to believe on there own!

Richard
sjones461@comcast.net

Shawn, My wife and I love your show. We watch it every week. Isn't it true that Mormons refused to allow themselves to be called Christians until sometime in the mid-1900s? If that's true, I find it ironic that now they insist on being called Christians. What year did they decide that they were Christians? Also, in one of your shows a year or so back, you mentioned that someone went to China to study cults. And that person came up with a list of cultish traits. Who was he, and what were the traits that he came up with?

Thomas Monson’s Message

Compared to the Bible by Connie Raddon

“I challenge Latter-day Saints everywhere to undertake a personal, diligent, significant quest for what I call the abundant life…” President Thomas S. Monson, January 2012 Ensign, pg 4

Color Key:
Quotes from the Ensign in blue.
Quotes from the Bible in red.
All my own words are black.

One of the monthly sections of the Ensign is the “First Presidency Message”. In the January 2012 issue, this article is written by the president of the LDS Church, Thomas Monson. It is found on page 4-5.

Since it’s the beginning of a new year, Monson challenges the members of his church to

Abundant Life in Perspective

Take a personal, diligent, and significant quest for the abundant life. Monson goes on to explain that an abundant life is “a life filled with an abundance of success, goodness, and blessings.”

The first thing I notice is how vague this is. What exactly does he mean by success? How much goodness counts for an ‘abundance’? What blessings is he talking about? Well, in Mormon culture, the measure of success, goodness, and blessings is really not that vague. All you have to do is look around and see which members consistently get the more respected assignments (i.e., presidents of organizations, bishops, etc.). They are the people who are baptized, are Eagle Scouts, are married in the temple, have served missions, appear to be financially stable, have nice, clean homes, and who openly bear their testimony that the LDS Church is true.

A Misguided Measure of Success

There is very rarely any mention of Christ, or their relationship with Him. It is a horribly sad cycle of failure when your abundance of blessings and success is measured by these external, very visible accomplishments. I personally know many parents who feel like failures as parents because their children haven’t completed these things. One LDS woman I know couldn’t even bring herself to show up for her own Mother’s Day dinner one year. She left a note for her family explaining that she felt like a failure as a mother. And yet here were all her children and her husband gathered together to spend time with her, and each other. How sad. Imagine the pain she was in – and the message that she sent to her children that day – you aren’t good enough, therefore, I am not good enough.

Now before anyone gets too upset with me, I do recognize that the Bible mentions abundance:

Jesus said, “The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10)

Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

3Jn 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

“Verses such as these, IF they were ALL that the Bible said on the subject, one would surely think that God’s plan for believers is to give them all kinds of worldly things. As it is, it is NOT all that the Bible says on the subject. Context is the key to all understanding from any writing, and is especially important when dealing with things of such utter importance as our spiritual lives.” Art Haglund (research partner)

Biblical Understanding of Abundance

Let us look at these verses, which are almost always and conveniently ‘forgotten’ when this heresy is spoken of:

Luk 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

We see from these verses that God does not consider the abundant life to be equal to many possessions, or success in a career.

Monson never mentions that the abundant life he refers to is in heaven. From reading his entire article, it is clear that he means success, goodness, and blessings will come in this life.

In the book of Luke, there is a story of a rich man, and a beggar named Lazarus. After they both die, the rich man is in torment and the beggar is in Abraham’s bosom. The rich man asked Abraham why…

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.”

The rich man had success, goodness, and blessings while on earth. But that did nothing for his eternal life. Lazarus did not have success and blessings on earth, but he gets comfort in heaven. Now the Bible isn’t necessarily saying that if you have blessings on earth,

Examining Teachings on Success and Abundance

you won’t go to heaven – I am not saying that. God, of course, can bless anyone with abundance and success. The Bible teaches that our heart should not be placed on the things (success and goodness) of this world, but completely on God.

Luke 10:27 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

But Monson is encouraging Mormons to seek after success and goodness – NOT GOD. Not only that, he is telling them to seek after this abundant life with a “personal, diligent, and significant quest”. It sounds a lot like giving your heart, soul, strength and mind to living the abundant life – not loving God.

Contrast with Biblical Teachings

This is exactly opposite of what the Bible teaches – as we can see in Matthew.

Matt 6:19-21 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Monson continues, “Just as we learned the ABCs in school, I offer my own ABCs to help us all gain the abundant life… A in my ABCs refers to attitude… B is for believe – in yourself, in those around you, and in eternal principles…C is for courage.”

Once again, God is not mentioned – in fact Monson himself takes credit for his own ABCs to help gain the abundant life. He is teaching us to rely on our attitude, belief in ourselves, and our own courage. With this approach, any blessing, success, or good thing that comes our way will be credited to us, not God (at least in most people’s minds).

Supporting Quotes and Biblical Omissions

To support his message, Monson includes quotes from William James (an American psychologist and philosopher), Charles Swindoll (an author educator, and Christian pastor), William Shakespeare’s “King Henry the Eighth”, Thomas Fuller (an English churchman and historian who lived in the 17th century), and Ralph Waldo Emerson. He does not ever quote Jesus, or even the scriptures – not even the LDS scriptures!

At one point, he refers to David fighting Goliath, but credits the win to David not to God.

Monson’s final words are, “May we remember these ABCs as we begin our journey into the new year, cultivating a positive attitude, a belief that we can achieve our goals and resolutions, and the courage to face whatever challenges may come our way. Then the abundant life will be ours.”

The teachings in this article are NOT Biblical, and therefore, NOT consistent with Christian beliefs.

4 On May 18, 1873 (as recorded in the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 16 p. 46), Brigham Young issued a challenge: “Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter Day Saints with it, and see if it will stand the test.”

I have accepted that challenge from Brigham Young.

In the January 2012 issue of the Ensign, the LDS religion FAILS this test.

Heart Of The Matter
Heart Of The Matter

Established in 2006, Heart of the Matter is a live call-in show hosted by Shawn McCraney. It began by deconstructing Mormonism through a biblical lens and has since evolved into a broader exploration of personal faith, challenging the systems and doctrines of institutional religion. With thought-provoking topics and open dialogue, HOTM encourages viewers to prioritize their relationship with God over traditions or dogma. Episodes feature Q&A sessions, theological discussions, and deep dives into relevant spiritual issues.

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