The Intersection of Mormonism and Biblical Christianity
SALT LAKE CITY UTAH
This is Heart of the Matter, where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity, face to face. Show 40 Teleological or Deontological October 2nd 2012. And I’m Shawn McCraney, your host. We praise the True and Living God for allowing us to participate in this ministry. May He be with you (and us) tonight.
We meet at 10 am and then again at 2:30 pm at the U of U for church every Sunday. Been there for a year. Join us. Go to www.c-a-m-p-u-s.com for more information. Additionally on Sundays, AM 820 airs Heart of the Matter from 1-2 pm. We like AM 820. Check out – AM 820 – the Truth!
Community Engagement Across Utah
Okay, you really need to pay attention here – get something to write with . . . go on . . . GO ON . . . NOW! THIS COMING Saturday, October 6th (from 2-3 in the afternoon ONLY) we will have ten volunteers sitting at ten locations along the Wasatch front – waiting to hand you a sign like the one hanging behind me – except smaller. What does the sign say? Jesus (Period). What does it mean? You decide what it means. To me, it says everything in one word – PERIOD. Here is where we’ll be!
In Logan (from 2-3): Oasis Books, 25 West Center Street, Logan Utah. In Brigham City, (from 2-3) Main Street Church, 48 Main Street, Brigham City, Utah. In Ogden (from 2-3) McDonald’s Parking Lot on 21st South and the I-15. In Layton, (from 2-3) Winco Parking Lot of the Fort Lane Shopping Center at Fort Lane and East Gentile, Layton. In Salt Lake/Sugarhouse (from 2-3) The Taco Bell Parking Lot Across from Sugarhouse Park On 1300 East near 21st South. In Murray (from 2-3) Lifeway Christian Books, 6336 South State Street, Murray. In West Valley (from 2-3) The RC Willey Outlet Center, Redwood Road and 9000 South. In American Fork (from 2-3) The In and Out Burger Parking Lot at West Main and the I-15. And in Provo/Orem (from 2-3) grab one in At the University mall in the south parking lot near Macy’s. That’s this Saturday afternoon, 2pm-3pm, October 6th. Go to www.hotm.tv for more information.
Exploring Products and Personalities
While you’re on our website, take a minute and check out our online store. We have added a number of products for your learning . . . and entertainment. Great DVD’s, books, CD’s, and yes, t-shirts. Shirts? Thaz right – plural. We’ve just added YET ANOTHER quality t-shirt (in addition to our Joseph’s Myth shirts). What does this one say? Something FAR more important. That’s right: (Model!)
All of these fine products available for you at . . . www.hotm.tv.
Every now and again I run into a person or personality that merits time on the program based on our objectives. Next week, I will have such a person on the air with me – Mr. Christopher Nemelka, a man who claims to have translated the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon, who claims to be a prophet, a man who receives all sorts of revelations and has followers to boot – devout followers. In my opinion, Mr. Nemelka – who is fairly articulate, handsome, and full of inspiration – is very much like Joseph Smith – and he claims he is the reincarnated brother of Smith. Join us next week – I think it will be a revelatory moment in our history.
Re-evaluation of Christian Identity
I’ve got something for you to think about. Where they used to distance themselves from Christianity, Mormonism insists it is Christian today. Can I ask you idiot Christian sell-outs who are accepting this garbage without a theological fight why the LDS send full-time missionaries out into the world whose sole purpose is to get people to leave WHATEVER church they attend and be baptized Mormon?
Have you ever asked yourself this? I mean, do Baptists go out and tell Presbyterians that “Presbyterianism is wrong” and that the “Presbyterian baptism is wrong” and they need to be rebaptized a Baptist? If Mormonism is Christian, why do they recruit and proselytize from other Christian churches AND do this in the name of SAVING people?
The answer lies in the fact that Mormonism believes that ONLY IT . . . is Christian. And that people must embrace what Mormonism teaches in order to be accepted by God. Suppose you get on a bus with a Baptist, a Presbyterian, a Methodist, a Lutheran, a Pentecostal, a Four Square guy, a Calvary Chapel guy and you will hear a conversation about Christ taken from the Bible upon which they will all agree and there will be no attempt by any of them to bring the other one over to…
Examining Mormon Doctrine and Practices
their specific building. But if a Mormon gets on this same bus, I can assure you that he, BASED ON DOCTRINE, believes:
- Only he possesses the complete truth.
- All the other faiths present are incomplete and are in fact in a state of apostasy.
- That the baptisms of the other faiths are useless and void.
- And this Mormon will believe it his duty to get every single person of every other faith to LEAVE their respective church AND become a Mormon!
Does this sound like Christianity as described by the Bible and practiced by all Christian churches?
(beat)
And think about this: How come Mormon missionaries (and LDS members who share Mormonism with others) are always considered to be doing so with the best of intentions even though they say that the Church Jesus established was lost in a world-wide apostasy, and that our Bible cannot be completely trusted . . .
. . . BUT when a Christian approaches a Mormon with information about Mormonism (and their history) we are called “haters,” and labeled “anti-Mormons?”
Listen, if a Christian is labeled an anti-Mormon for bringing up true FACTS about Mormonism then . . . .
LISTEN closely . . .!
Then every Mormon Missionary ought to be labeled “anti-Christian” or “anti–Christ!”
Right? Is the logic correct? Check me on it?
Call and tell me how I am wrong, Latter-Day Saints. Really.
Leaders and Financial Transparency
A week back we reported hearing an unsubstantiated report that Aa,a,a,a,a, Apostle Henry Eyring received an income from the Church in 2006 of $600,000.00.
We challenged then, as we challenge these apostate apostles today, to tell their members the amount of their “modest incomes” they receive for being apostles. Viewer Greg A., commenting on this issue, wrote us, saying:
“Of course, leaders receiving “remuneration” for their “service to the church” is nothing new . . . it is a tradition.”
Greg then cited History of the Church, Volume 3, pages 31, 32. (Deseret Book Co. printed 1980.) May 12, 1838 – (Far West, Missouri) –
“President Rigdon and myself attended the High Council for the purpose of presenting for their consideration some business relating to our pecuniary concerns…. The Council investigated the matter, and instructed the Bishop to make over to President Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, each an eighty-acre lot of land from the property of the Church,
… said committee agreed that Presidents Smith and Rigdon should receive $1,100 each as a just remuneration for their services this year.
Exactly how much was the 1100 dollars did “the church” gave to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon in our dollars?
In the LEAST, it would be like receiving $28,000.00 in today’s money.
But perhaps more importantly, that kind of money carried an economic status (or a prestige level) for Smith and Rigdon which was akin to getting $521,000.00 today.
This is all based on figures supplied by www.measuringworth.com
This “religion” has always, always, always been about Money, CONTROL, and Power.
Prove me wrong! I will apologize profusely to the Mormon church and all of its leaders if the apostles and prophet come out and show they are paid a modest income.
I doubt any will ever take us up on this challenge because in their quest for Money, Control, and Power, this institution is stealthy, smart, and adept.
Political Neutrality Claim
Want another example?
Mormonism has long and ardently claimed it is “politically neutral.” This is an absolute crock. Certainly from the top, and typically from their pulpits, they appear to maintain political neutrality. But through subtle inference and grass root level activity secretly and carefully released, to get their own to move in ways they want.
For instance, ABC News reports that an LDS woman in Price Utah sent out an email about fasting for Romney on Sunday September 30th. Not surprisingly the email went viral, and a number of our viewers (who received them) passed them along to us. In the end, most active, faithful LDS members in the US have probably got wind of the “fast” before Sunday.
One viewer received the following:
“A local former Stake President has invited me to join him in fasting and prayer on Sunday September 30th for our country, its governing leadership and specifically for Governor Mitt Romney as he prepares for the Presidential Debates.
I wanted to extend that invitation to you as well, I hope you'll join me in this effort to support leadership in this country that respects the rule of law, the freedoms God has granted, and particularly the right to personal religious beliefs unfettered by government interference.
God Bless, I hope you'll join me and hopefully
Influence of Authoritarian Structures
Millions of others!
Because the church is run in an authoritarian, top-down semi-militaristic model and it did not put the kibosh on grass-roots fast, it tacitly gave its stamp of approval . . . without having to say a word and thereby remaining neutral. But suppose an LDS member started as a grassroots internet movement encouraging members to fast and pray for Obama, and his performance in the debates tomorrow night, I am fairly certain the brethren would have made some sort of statement that church-wide fasts are held only at the discretion of the prophet, and no other.
I’ve taken the time to make this point because it illustrates how the LDS can and will continue to sway things in the direction it desires – without word one coming officially from the top. Put a faithful Latter-day Saint in the most powerful office in the world and this Mormon sway will foment into a torrent of “LDS backed” and “LDS led” agendas which will only serve Mormonism in the end.
Interfaith Relations and Ecumenism
And the ecumenical cancer continues to grow, invading the once healthy mindset of people who actually trusted what this book says! It seems Utah Catholic Bishop John Wester spoke last Tuesday at the UVU (LDS) Institute of Religion. An article in the Salt Lake Trib covering the speech was titled: “We stand with Mormons as Christ Witnesses,” says Utah’s Catholic Bishop.
So let me see if I can understand this –
A religious leader from a worldwide church that:
- prays to Mary
- re-crucifies Jesus every Mass
- redefines the virgin birth
- only calls some special people Saints
- has a false priesthood, and
- an infallible leader they call “Pope”
Has said that it “stands” with another non-Christian church which believes:
- believes Jesus was a created being
- that God was once a man
- that they are going to become gods
- that believing in Joseph Smith is necessary to living with God after this life, and
- that they must follow a man with exactness to get to heaven.
And they do this as “witnesses of Christ!”
Doesn’t anyone read and believe this book anymore?
(beat)
According to the article, the Catholic Bishop admitted that they don’t see “eye to eye” with the LDS doctrinally, but just listen to a few of the things Mr. Catholic Bishop also said:
- “Catholics stand shoulder to shoulder (with the LDS) as witnesses of Jesus Christ.”
What? That’s like saying lions and leopards stand as witnesses for vegetarians! He also said . . .
- That the very fact he was speaking at the LDS Institute was “a wonderful sign of the ongoing collaboration between our faiths,” and “another important step in interfaith relations.”
“A wonderful sign of ongoing collaboration between faiths? What is wonderful about interfaith collaboration? Other than widespread ecumenism? I mean, doesn’t anyone care about what this book says anymore?
He also said:
- The way the two churches come together “could be a model (for the rest of the Nation) of working for common good.”
Can we really call what two groups, led by fallen men, do, “common good?” If the Nazis and the Russian Communists got together to pick up litter along the highway, could we really call this activity common good?
Then listen to this:
- UVU President Matthew Holland (yes, he is a, a, a, a, apostle Jeffrey Holland’s son) said the Catholic Leader’s address was part of the school's effort to be an “inclusive institution.”
Then . . .
- “He also announced the creation of an “ecumenical reflection center” that would be included in new student life center.”
An ecumenical reflection center? Doesn’t anyone care what this book says anymore?
(LONG BEAT)
For anyone out there who is still listening, who still wants to be “SOLD out Christ” and who believes what this book says, let me help bring all this unbelievable garbage back to biblical reality.
Exploration of Ethics
But first, let’s have a word of “urgent” prayer.
PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER
PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER
Over the past few weeks in our morning Sunday School class we have been exploring how people determine their ethics? Some people say what they personally feel dictates how they live. Others say what the Law, legal systems, and political parties dictates determines how they act. And others embrace philosophies propagated throughout the ages. Ayn Rand promoted selfishness as the highest ethic, Thomas Hobbes and Friedrich Nietzsche essentially agree, and John Stuart Mill proposed utilitarianism.
Each and all of these man-made proposals are just the tip of an enormous iceberg . . . appropriately titled as in the end they leave people who embrace them wet and cold.
Christian Ethics
So what of Christianity? Where does our ethic originate? I think some of you will be
Understanding God's Divine Law
Our ethic comes without question from God’s divine law.
Whether men and women believe in God or His prescribed divine law is irrelevant. Nobody can be or ever has been exempt from its edicts. Because God’s divine law is, like laws of the land, written in a book, it is not descriptive in nature but prescriptive. His divine law is prescribed to all of us and not described in terms of what ought to be, NOT what is.
Because the world is full of sinners (what is) does not make God’s divine law (what ought to be) obsolete. Herein lies the reason why Bible believers become so FRUSTRATED with the world and what it does because the world – and all of its facets – attempts to take “what is” and have it dictate “what ought to be.” Not so. Taking this out even further, even Christianity and its constituents do NOT look around at each other (“what is”) as a means to determine our ethics but instead look to our standard or manual (the Bible) . . . which tells us “what ought to be.”
Things get really messed up when people look around at what other people actually “do” and make it the basis for what they “ought to do.” We can see the results of such thinking CLEARLY today in the national political thinking of believers, in the philosophies of many Christian churches, and in the growing ecumenism of faiths that think unity is more important than God’s divine law.
Duty vs. Results in Ethical Systems
Ethical systems can be broadly categorized into two broad systems or philosophies – Duty-centered ethics (or deontological ethics) or results-centered ethics (teleological ethics). What is interesting is that if you ask MOST Christians today which ethic drives true believers they will say the teleological ethic – that we are always open and willing to follow that which produces the best results. This is just not so. Christians are deontologically driven – we act based on duty to God’s law no matter what the results!
Go with me to the white-board and let me see if I can articulate this better and then give it some application.
Teleological Ethics
“End-centered” (Results Determine the Rules)
- Results are the basis of action.
- “What works is employed.”
- “What doesn’t work is discarded”
- “The best for the most is embraced”
- The rule is good because of its results.
- Results are often used to justify breaking the rules.
“We do this because it reaches more people for Jesus. We do that because people feel loved and accepted.”
Deontological Ethics
“Duty-centered” (Rules Determine the Results)
- The rule of God is the basis of action.
- “What is of God is employed whether it works or not.”
- “What doesn’t work is kept until He provides new direction.”
- The rule is good regardless of results.
- Results are always calculated within the rules.
“If something works it has to be couched within the rules of God. The fact that it produces results is irrelevant if it is outside of God’s rule.”
WORLD * CORPORATIONS * GOVERNMENTS Christians RELIGION
Let’s open up the phone lines:
(801) 973-8820
(801) 973-TV20
First-time callers please. LDS callers if at all possible. And listen to me closely – once the operators have cleared your call, please turn your television sets OFF or you will NOT know you are on the air!
Hi,
My name is Morgan from Orem, Utah and I'm leaving the church right now and I was wondering about priesthood blessings. I love the blessings I have received and have since realized I looked to priesthood holders to talk to God for me. I feel like God spoke through the men giving the blessings, is it biblical to think God works through those blessings?
Thank you for your show,
Morgan
Conclusion
Remember, THIS SATURDAY OCTOBER 6th 2-3PM in Logan, Brigham City, Ogden, Layton, Sugarhouse, Murray, West Jordan, American Fork, and Provo/Orem – JESUS (period) signs will be handed out to all interested parties. Go to www.hotm.tv for more information.
And we’ll see you next week, here on Heart of the Matter where self-proclaimed Prophet Christopher Nemelka will be our guest. Should be fun. See you then.
