Heart of the Matter

Live from Salt Lake City, Utah, this is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. where we do all we can to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.

Show 40 517

For God So Loved the World – Atonement – Part II

September 28th 2016

Hey, if you haven’t read Knife to a Gun Fight you should. (hold it up). It’s not motivational and won’t save you from sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace. or get you to heaven but it may serve to free you up from the bonds of religious allegiance. Derrick recently informed me that it’s official – for every book we give away and MAIL for free we are now selling – one. So I am not promoting Knife as a means to sell books (though we would like people to buy it). I’m promoting it because I think it will help people understand the purpose and place of the New Testament – and therefore arm them against the abuses that can come when people use the Bible to try and control or condemn others. Knife to a Gunfight is available at www.hotm.tv.

Last week I read some emails between a pastor in Wyoming who wrote to a street preacher asking him not to come to an opening to an LDS temple dedication – and the street preacher's decision to still attend and do what he believes he is called to do – even if the pastors in the area are against him. I asked you all what you thought should happen in the face of this situation.

An Email from Dallas

One email we received (from Dallas) said:

From: Dallas

I just want to express my feelings regarding this zealous individual who doesn't seem to be on the same page with the Christian community who are faithfully developing a dialogue with the Mormans. It seems the overall objective is being ignored. Does this individual want to bring souls to Christ or just make a lot of offensive noise? I don't understand why he ignores the fact that things are better done in a Christ like way, long suffering and peaceful, instead of offending people! I admit that the institution is an abomination, but the people are God's children and need to be led and fed rather than mocked and offended. Use the Morman strategy of warm them then warn them! I appreciate your support Shawn, God bless you. Dallas

Allow a little more backstory before I tell you how I see things. The ministry that goes and street preaches at temple dedications and Manti and the like is not something I personally endorse or believe to be very effective. I’ve made no bones about this – having been LDS I am convinced that what these guys do is damaging to missional efforts. Add in that I personally am not too fond of the individual involved in this specific situation or the counselors that advise him and I would love to publicly take a side against him.

However, that being said, I was also on the receiving end of local pastors trying to micro-manage what occurred here in the state of Utah to the extent that some even contacted the Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa that was funding my travels before the show started and said, “We don’t need his kind of help.”

Question of Authority

Who gets to decide? Do pastors or a group of pastors have any say in what happens in the communities wherein they have a church? Can this (or any other) ministry claim a right to do what they believe they are called to do even though other believers – even Pastors – ask them to refrain? Really, the bottom line question is who has the authority in this situation?

Years ago we decided to hold a ministry end of the year function at a hotel that was down the street from a larger church here in SLC. It so happened that this larger church was having some kind of event at the same time as our event and the pastor got wind of it – and things got ugly. He actually accused us of planning our event in order to sabotage his! I’m not kidding! Then he demanded (even though announcements and invitations had been sent out to our supporters) that we move the date of our event. We resisted, and he got quite demanding. Who had the authority here? A ministry or a Church pastor?

The answer to all these authority questions is simple – God, by and through His Holy Spirit, has the authority. (Listen) And this authority on this earth is.

Love and Selflessness in Christian Life

Love. The fruit of the Spirit.

We made the decision to cancel our event. We didn’t have to – and the Pastor had no right to impose his will over ours. But we did – because selfless acts are the Christian way. I didn’t feel good about it. I was irritated. But that is what is demanded. I would love to sternly say that the ministry going out to protest the LDS temple dedication SHOULD pull out. But that is not up to me. I would love to also say that the Pastor had no right to request that he stay home. But again, not my call. The answer to this situation is love. A human authority is not required to step in here and control this thing. All parties involved might ask themselves the question, “What would Jesus really do here?” And let their answers decide.

On another note, I was recently sent a picture of a humorous tee-shirt. Most of us have heard of a movement afoot called Black Lives Matter. Well, this shirt said Calvinism “Some lives matter.” Thought that was worth repeat’in.

Jesus's Identity in Christian Debates

And with dat how about a moment from the Word.

(Run from the Word here)

In the Mormon Christian debate – even within the realms of Christianity and the debates that thrive therein, there is often a push to determine exactly who Jesus is and was. Some like to demand that He be seen in very theological terms – using phrases like the hypostatic of Christ – 100% Man and 100% God. Some tone the rhetoric down – much to the behest of the Jesus police who wander about looking for opportunity to make sure people explain their understanding of Him perfectly.

Of late, I’ve noticed something interesting in scripture – the way Peter and even Paul introduce Peter to people who do not necessarily know Him.

Scriptural Introductions of Jesus

In Acts 2 when Peter is standing before several thousand Jesus how does he describe Jesus? He says this:

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God.: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Later, when Peter took the Good News to a Gentile by the name of Cornelius, using his key to open the world up to the Gospel, what did he say of Jesus then? He said:

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

Key Aspects of Jesus's Introduction

In both of these settings Peter chose, of all the things he could say about Jesus, he chose to introduce him as

• Jesus of Nazareth
• A man – approved of God
• which God did by him signs
• whom God anointed
• whom God raised up

These points were made both to the Jews at Pentecost and at Cornelius’s home. When Paul goes to Athens and preaches on Mar’s hill, how did he introduce Jesus to these astute thinkers? He tells them that:

Acts 17:31 God has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained, whereof he has given assurance unto all men in that He has raised Him (the man Jesus) from the dead.

Again, Paul in introducing Jesus to a group of new hearers preaches a few similar points to them, saying:

God appointed
God ordained, and God
Raised Him from the dead.

These points are central to the message of Christ Jesus – that He was “a man” (Paul says, born of a woman, born under the law), “a Nazarene,” “approved of God,” “a man whom God did miracles by,” “whom God appointed and ordained . . .” and included in every one of these messages is the crowning fact that “God . . . raised him from the dead.”

All the debates on his deity and his life with God as a person,

The Relationship Between God and Man

or Son, or word are really side issues when it comes to what Jesus did and means to us humans. What really plays out is this man from Galilee was anointed by God, did miracles by God, was approved of by God and in the end was raised from the dead after three days . . . by God.

This is what Peter and Paul emphasized about His nature. The fact that He was God with us, or the Word made flesh are ancillary to the fact that a human being came, overcame, and became our mediator to the living God. And listen – there are a lot of people who look to Jesus in these terms described by Peter and Paul.

They see Him as Savior of the World, this Man from Galilee who put God and His ways ahead of His own.

On this let’s build our relationships and leave all the minutia to those who fixate more on law . . . than on love.

Personal Insights

And with THAT let’s go to our board of direction

(Run Board of Direction here please)

I hope you will excuse a little insight into how my life – my Christian life – happens to me. I share it with those in whom similar things occur to help show they are valid.

We have talked about “Christian art and artists” here on the show and we have talked about the Spirit working subjectively through believers. I want to share with you (in living color) how all these concepts came together in my life through something that happened to me this past week.

How I will describe it is exactly how it happened – no fudging or exaggerations involved.

A Personal Anecdote

In 2010, for her sixteenth birthday, Mary and I (with some help from Mary’s mom as well) got our youngest daughter Delaney an orange 1971 Volkswagon bug. She drove it all through high school and college. Two and a half years ago the brakes failed and she hit another car, ruining the fender and hood.

Three weeks ago while driving to work I saw an abandoned metal rack at the side of the road and laying on it, among other things, was the red hood of a car. After passing by it for a week or so I decided it had been abandoned and picked it up. I decided to metal cut a figure out of it that is very symbolic to me – an X.

(show the X)

Several years ago – maybe in 2007 or 2008 I started imagining forms that would illustrate the relationship between God and Man. Some of you may remember my sharing them with you.

(GO TO BOARD)

Out of nowhere I imagined that the best symbol for God was a V

On board – V

I chose the V because it means victory, it is emblematic of God being in control of all things, Him pointing down to Man, and as a symbol for women and birth a sign that He is the author of all life.

Then, since we were made in God’s image I mirrored that V with another V (which made an . . . X)

On Board – X

I said that when it comes to God and Man it all begins with X – and that at the intersecting points there was relationship. This is why I have an X tattooed on my right arm.

When I looked back over the course of my life the significance of X is really quite overwhelming – for reasons I won’t go into here – but it played a role in forming my views through everything from being on the tale end of the X generation, to it being the unknown factor in math, to it being my favorite band in my youth.

I contemplated X and realized that while the initial relationship between God and Man is represented by X there was a fall and that relationship ended.

What happened as a result I thought?

Man and God became alienated.

(Broken X on board)

Man came to see himself as God

(Flip on board)

Man became broken or divided in his parts or composition.

(On Board – extend Soul and Spirit from Body)

Here was the beginning of disease, mental illness, stress and unrest.

So what does God do in response to the Fall? He too extends Himself out to reach us – and in some fashion we might think of Him also dividing within Himself:

(On Board the V to a W)

In this state God could try and relate to fallen man by superimposing himself

Spiritual Rebirth and Integration

Man has to flip – back over to the attitude and worldview he was created to have – to point to God and NOT be a God unto Himself. This flip occurs at spiritual rebirth – and when this happens, God and Man INTEGRATE into one. Got all that? There’s much more, but we’ll stop there.

Last week, Mary and Delaney went to Southern California to a funeral, and they picked up the parts of the VW that were removed due to the accident she had so many years ago. They brought them to Utah. A number of weeks ago, I saw the hood of another car on the street and picked it up and designed an X in it. This is it. When I got the hood from her Volkswagon, I immediately saw an image in it that I decided to cut out. In the hood, I could see the Christ on the cross, with his head and arms and legs extending down. Above Him, either the wrath or the light of God shining down. It was a great piece, and I prepared to cut it out of the metal.

Yesterday afternoon, I sat in the truck with my eyes closed. And suddenly it hit me light a bolt of lightening cutting through all these years of images, and art, and symbols and life – that where Christ’s head is, there would be the VW icon – which is? That’s right (show icon). The Volkswagen in German means the people’s car. It was the brainchild of Adolph Hitler, designed by Ferdinand Porsche. And here today, God again has his victory, revealing Himself, yet again, and over the course of passing decades, as present in everything.

Understanding Atonement

And with that, let’s continue our discussion on Atonement.

In our book, "Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity Face to Face," we give this illustration to help people understand the differences between the LDS view of atonement and the Christian. Christians might see us as all living in a small village that is ruled by a benevolent and caring King. This beautiful King has provided a special servant to the small village who takes care of every need the people of the village might encounter. He brings them milk, food, heals them by the powers with which the King has invested him, and makes all things right and good. Everything the servant does is free to the people of the kingdom by virtue of the King’s love and grace; but what enables the servant to show up and serve is a villager’s belief – belief that the servant really will appear and that he will do as the King has promised. Nothing more.

Different Approaches to Faith

Now, the villagers are broken up into two parties. One party believes that all they need to do is believe the King’s promises and the servant will appear – and He does! They experience it constantly in their lives. But the other group of villagers doesn’t think that believing the king is enough. So they send gifts to the King’s castle, and dress really nicely, and post pictures of the King outside their homes, thinking they must do something to earn the King’s favor, which, they believe, causes him to send the servant to their homes. Interestingly, the servant comes to all the homes of the village. He comes most abundantly to those who do nothing but believe and trust, and as a result, these find themselves free to live and love others because of the unconditional love shown them by the King (and not by their own efforts). But the other villagers who think that faith in the Servant isn’t enough are burdened with the false notion that they must do all sorts of things to keep the King happy so that the servant will continue to show up on their behalf. This burden causes them to feel overwhelmed, and to get irritated with each other, and to condemn the other villagers who live by faith alone.

The Difference in Atonement Views

This is the difference between the LDS idea of atonement and the Christian knowledge of it. Christians believe in the servant wholly. They trust the King’s written promises that the servant is there for them NOT because they deserve it, but because the King loves them, and they trust his love and promises. The LDS believe that the servant will only appear and do work for them IF they do their part, if they throw in

LDS Interpretation of Atonement

Listen to what LDS false Apostle James E. Faust said about atonement as quoted in a 2001 November Ensign article (“The Atonement: Our Greatest Hope”):

Our salvation depends on believing and accepting the Atonement. Such acceptance requires a continual effort to understand it more fully. The Atonement advances our mortal course of learning by making it possible for our natures to become perfect. All of us have sinned and need to repent to fully pay our part of the debt. When we sincerely repent, the Savior’s magnificent Atonement pays the rest of that debt.

It’s important to know that, to the LDS, what Jesus did with His life and through His death does two things:

Gifts from the Atonement

First, it gives all people– everybody – the unconditional free gift, the unmerited gift, of physical immortality. To the Mormons, where Adam introduced physical death to the world, Jesus overcame it for everyone, and this part of the atonement amounts to all human beings being resurrected (whether they believe in God or not). That is part A of the LDS interpretation of atonement: resurrection. So often, when a Mormon says that people “are saved by grace,” what they really mean is by God’s pure grace all people are saved from eternal physical death and will be resurrected. This immortality is absolutely free to all people because of Christ. Part B of the LDS atonement is that Jesus’ death and resurrection gives everyone “the opportunity” to become exalted, or in Christian parlance, to live with God and become gods. The actuality of this comes by our work, our righteousness, our obedience, and our receiving all the required LDS ordinances.

LDS false Apostle Russell M. Nelson wrote in an Ensign article dated Feb 2003 (“Divine Love”):

“Thanks to the Atonement, the gift of immortality is unconditional. The greater gift of eternal life, however, is conditional.”

I want to pause in the quote and point out that a gift is either a gift and comes without conditions OR it is earned, so the words of this man automatically ring untrue – at least to me. Okay . . .

“Thanks to the Atonement, the gift of immortality is unconditional. The greater gift of eternal life, however, is conditional. In order to qualify, one must deny oneself of ungodliness and honor the ordinances and covenants of the temple.” It is here that the atoning work of Jesus merely makes it possible for people to qualify for life eternal and that comes by honoring the ordinances and covenants of the LDS temple. And we can see how to the LDS, from their own apostle’s mouth, that Jesus is not enough. The LDS temple rites and rituals are also needed.

Contrasting Beliefs

Where the Bible is emphatically clear that we are saved by our faith through grace alone (Ephesians 2:8-9); that there is nothing we can add to grace otherwise it would cease to be grace (Romans 11:6); and that if salvation is by grace it cannot be by ANYTHING else (Galatians 2:16); the LDS beliefs firmly deny such Biblical teachings.

Well-respected LDS apostle of old James E. Talmage said (The Articles of Faith, page 432):

The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil.

When a Latter-day Saint says that the atonement of Jesus Christ makes it possible for any and all of us to “live with God,” (again) what this means is they believe the wholly false notion that men are not saved by grace through faith alone but by grace through faith AND works – that it is the works they do that allows God to apply the atonement of His Son . . . to their lives.

Another distinction between the LDS and the Bible-believing Christian is the way the atonement of Jesus Christ is applied to those who believe – which we touched on last week. To Christians, once a person comes to a saving faith, they are saved past, present, and future for the entire life of sin. This brings a peace to then follow God’s commands out of gratitude, love, and a desire to improve that comes from the unconditional presence of His Holy Spirit. To the LDS, it is a much different matter because the atonement is sort of seen as a being a powerful disinfectant that rests inside a locked first aid kit.

Repentance in LDS Belief

“If” and “when” sin is committed, the sinful Latter-day Saint must prove their repentant attitude and do their part to

The Misconception of Worthiness

Cleanse the wound before they are given the combination to the lock on the first aid kit by their bishop. After they are found “worthy” to apply the atonement to the sin-wound (through actions they must take which often includes the passing of a certain amount of time) they are given the combination and allowed to apply it – and not before. This approach, while VERY religious, is wholly inconsistent with Jesus’ work on earth and on the cross, for when He cried, “It is finished! (John 19:30),” meaning all the work was done. And when we receive the offering of His life and blood by faith, the antiseptic or salve is eternally applied. Let me tell you something, one of the greatest religious lies ever printed and believed in the annals of false Christianity is the LDS Third Article of Faith, which reads: “We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

Justification by Faith

I am able to make such a statement by and through a contextual readingReading Scripture with attention to its audience, setting, and purpose—essential to fulfilled understanding. the Word as Romans 3:20-28 says:

“Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Conclusion

Let’s open up the phone lines:

(801)

SPOT?

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