2 Corinthians 5:17 – End Bible Teaching

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2nd Corinthians 5.17-end
November 25th 2018
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We left off with verse . . .

14 For . . . For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

And we spent some time talking about how Paul says SINCE Christ has died, or BECAUSE He has died, then ALL have died.

To me the implication is that in the Victory of Christ, He has vicariously taken the world with Him to His grave, and we all find ourselves having had our debt for sin paid.

But we also noted that Paul does NOT stop with this principle because in verse 15 he adds:

15 And that he died for all, (READY) . . . that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

I suggested that it is one thing to have died and been buried with Christ in His death, and that this is the grace God gives to all – the free gift that reconciled the fallen world to Himself, but that this is only the beginning of what is offered the world through the life, death, burial and resurrection of His Son.

That His resurrection FROM the grave, which is emblematic of rising to new life as a believer, is also available to all – its there for the taking, and arrives by faith.

In the reception of this, we discover a world of difference between all who have died with Christ and those (or THEY, as Paul puts it) who now live with Him.

Night and day difference, and where last week sounded like I was pitching for a universal heaven for all where all are equal no matter what, that would have been a grave misinterpretation and the furthest thing from my mind.

This is because Paul GREATLY differentiates between the ALL who are dead because of Christ’s death and THEY who live in and through His resurrection.

Again,

15 And that he died for all, (READY) . . . that they . . . which live . . . should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Because of my views on eternal punishment, and total reconciliation through Christ, and the fact that we are living in the Kingdom Age where all go to a heavenly abode, if I am misunderstood it is on this point today which is

While all have died with Christ, and been reconciled to a heavenly realm, because Hell and the Lake of Fire have been done away with in NO WAY suggests the removal of the very biblical principle of reaping what is sown, afterlife reward, membership in the New Jerusalem, and a marked difference between those who are Sons and Daughters of God with Christ and those who have merely had their sins wiped away.

The scripture more than almost any other principle makes it clear that there is much those who are God’s through Christ will be and do over those who are not – and the afterlife status of each could not be more markedly different.

It is to the category of men and women who rise up with Christ to whom Paul now speaks. And it is radical and meaningful and very pertinent to those watching or listening today.

See, while sinners – who are all of us – have died due to sin, and lay in the grave with Christ having been slain for the sins – again, WHICH IS ALL OF US – Children of God in Christ also participate in His glorious resurrection.

And while I do think that there is some great meaning in all being dead BECAUSE Christ died and that we are no longer dead in sin because of Adam but dead with Christ because of Christ, and in this lies a hope and promise because Christ was never going to lay forever in the grave – those who are truly His rise to new life – here, in this life.

And this is the principle that is reiterated over and over again throughout the Apostolic Record.

Before we move fully into this discussion, I have to mention how most evangelicals understand verse 14.

Where I see it as a fantastic distinction between the former age of Adam and all dying and going to hell as a result, and a hopeful evidence of God having the victory over all through Christ and His death, most evangelical preachers see Paul’s description of all being dead with Christ because of His death as a symbol of them refusing to raised with Christ, and therefore remaining dead in their sins.

This view is understandable. I mean if Christ died for the sin of the world and never resurrected, he too, would have been overcome by sin and their interpretation would be accurate.

But I do not liken the spiritual and physical death of all because of Adam sin to the same thing as being dead because Christ died – I see the latter as being significantly different.

One reason is because Christ paid for the sin on the cross and THEN died – which says to me that the sins of all have been paid for in full.

Secondly, to be dead because Christ died, verses dead because Adam sinned are two very different things – they are different sources or reasons for death.

I suggest that to die with Christ is a step in the right direction – and it is a direction God supplied the World for our benefit.

This was a free substitutionary death offered by the Son of God for the world for its sin. It is His GRACE – given to all through the life and death of His Son.

In fact, it extends even into the resurrection of his Son as all will receive a resurrected body.

But that caveat there is some bodies will be gloried – and of different glories and others will be bodies of damnation – according to the words of Jesus.

What this means we can only guess but we do know that all will be resurrected (because He was resurrected) but one group receive a resurrection to life and one receive a resurrection to damnation.

I think it is very safe to say that those who are alive in Christ here, who have risen from the grave with Him here by His resurrection will receive the resurrection of life there.

So let’s move back to here and now or to those whom Paul differentiates from the ALL dead by calling them the “they” and saying

“they . . . which live . . . should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.”

And so Paul has now shifted to believers – true believers – and describes them as “they which live,” of course referring to those who have been regenerated by the Spirit, quickened as it were, and rising from being dead with Christ to life with the Risen Christ.

Paul’s advice to these is that they

. should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.”

And here we enter into a series of concepts relative to the regenerated Christian which obviously are NOT automatic and enforced because if they were Paul would not have to explain how they “should” and “should not” live their lives.

Because there is apostolic instruction to believers I see this as meaning that there is choice for all of us – even those who have risen with Christ – and that Christians need to be taught on how to live and walk since it does NOT come naturally.

The overall principle is selflessness over selfishness – which is why Paul sort of summarizes his point by saying that they who live

“should NOT live unto themselves (selfishness) but unto him (Jesus) who (selflessly) died for them and rose again.”

Its sort of like those who are dead with Christ lay in their state of reconciliation while choosing to still operate by their flesh.

They have not be animated or risen to new life and so while being forgiven they continue to exist in the flesh, from the flesh – knowing somehow, in their mind, that there is a better way.

But those who rise to new life, because of Christ, have abandoned their former woman or man, left them dead, and in and through Christ’s resurrection, walk as He walked – selflessly, and not unto themselves.

Where the overall topic is selflessness over selfishness, it is broken down and addressed repeatedly in scripture in the following ways:

SELF SELFLESSNESS
(own fame, wealth, benefit) (benefit for Him, His Kingdom and others)
This World That Kingdom
Former Flesh Life New Life in Spirit
Old Identity New Identity
Fruitlessness Fruit to God
Dead Works Living Works

As God is the one who rewards all with their resurrected body, and as it is the house that we inhabit through the eternities, and since Paul sought for a “better resurrection” and since we know that all resurrections” are not equal, I would suggest (this is how I see all of the above information) I would suggest that those who remain dead in Christ are rewarded with whatever eternal fruit they produced in life (which would probably be little since the remained dead with Him) and those who rose with Him to new life, and did not live according to their former flesh but to the Spirit, will be rewarded commensurately at their respective resurrection.

Paul is going to take us forward on the idea of who and what we are to be as Christians now and he launches us in this direction with a radical concept, saying

16 Wherefore (in light of the fact that we are raise to new life with Christ by virtue of His resurrection) henceforth (from this point forward, my fellow Saints) know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

That line, “Wherefore henceforth, from this point forward, we know no man after the flesh . . .”

Says so much in light of all Paul has stated thus far.

What exactly does he mean, that from this point we know no man after the flesh?

Think about this! If ALL are dead because Christ died, and Christ died for our sin that was placed on Him, then we do not look at the sin nature in any person anymore – they, as member of the world, have had those sins REMITTED!

Isn’t that radical! Paul says it – not me – therefore we know no man after the flesh – whether our flesh or theirs because either would be the flesh – instead we see them as people who are either dead in Christ with sins paid OR as those who have risen up from their grave-flesh and are now walking in new life!

This is the world view with Jesus having had the victory.

When we step backward, and try to act in ways that would assume Christ has NOT had the victory, then we would be looking at all people according to the flesh –

He is a sinner, she is divorced, they are gay, he is a thief and even worse yet, “that is a carnal Christian, he isn’t saved, she is backsliden!”

In light of Jesus finished work these things cannot be! They cannot be, folks, so much so that Paul here himself tells the believers at Corinth that they are to no longer know any man by their flesh!

I think this is really really important when believers are looking out over the world.

We don’t look out and say, “look at all those sinners. They are dead in sin with Adam. God is so angry with them. Look at the drunks, the gays, the this and the that!”

Paul says no NO MAN according to their flesh. Instead, in this Kingdom age, I would suggest all Christians look at others as those who are loved by God because of Christ’s finished work, we see them as accepted by God in terms of cleanliness, and we see them as all having the potential to receive Him by faith and to rise up from a state of death.

Truly they are the walking dead, but they are not dead in sin. They are dead with Him.

This change in view will allow those who walk in the newness of life to shine love and light on all who are dead in Him which will serve to call them forth from the grave and into the light and love of life.

Just as important, believers are to also see themselves according to their new identities and NOT according to their former or present flesh.

That is not us. We are not our flesh or the actions of our flesh. The flesh is not good, will never be good, will always disappoint and will forever be in opposition to the spirit.

When our flesh rises up we do not see ourselves according to that flesh – that is NOT who we are. We are new and our identity is that of someone having risen from the grave to new life.

I would suggest that when a believer focuses or recognizes themselves by their flesh they are paradoxically merely living by their flesh, and are contradicting what Paul advices them to do.

This world view also applies to how we see each other. How often we see and evaluate others according to their flesh.
To what we see and observe in them – but Paul makes it clear that that which is visible is of the earth and that which is invisible is eternal.

As regenerated Christians we are to “see” others NOT in their flesh, not as their flesh, but according to the fact that Christ has had the victory in their lives and is leading and walking with their true identity – and this is what we see in them.

When I have had Christians come to me for one reason or another and confess their sins I am quick to remind them that that is NOT who they are – that they have a new identity in Christ and are not to focus on the failures of their flesh but on the New Creature of Spirit abiding in them through his victory over sin, death and His resurrection.

In this vain, Jesus said in John 6:63

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

So, seeing no man after the flesh, we do not look at non-believers according to such, we do not see ourselves as such, we do not see others as such, and then Paul takes us to a whole other level, and after saying:

“know we no man after the flesh:” he adds

“yea (in fact) though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

As a nation and even among some gentiles, Jesus was expected and known as a promised fleshly Messiah or a temporal Prince.

Paul now says that they were to assess or know him in this way no longer.

Now, it very well could be that what Paul is saying here is that while his countrymen, and perhaps even himself, expected to have a temporal Messiah who would be a physical prince and conqueror, one that would be a worthy successor of David and Solomon.

Therefore, some believe that this is what Paul is saying here when he speaks of “knowing the Messiah after the flesh.”

And then with the added, “but no longer,” he is saying, “but we are not to view him in this way anylonger.”

Why?

Because He has proven to be something far greater – an eternal messiah whose Kingdom is not of this world.

If this interpretation is true, then when he applies his advice of not knowing “any man” after the flesh, then what he is saying there is that we do not look at men relative to this world and what they do in it, but are to see them in terms of their eternal standing with God.

This view is admittedly possible.

However, in light of verse 14 where Paul makes a comparison between Jesus death (and all being dead) and Jesus resurrection ( and some then living) I tend to see this illustration as carrying over to a literal interpretation of Paul (here in verse 16) where he is actually saying that due to the finished Work of Christ we are not to know the unregenerated, ourselves, each other or even Christ BY THE FLESH that we all find ourselves in or were once in.

In other words, and actually whichever way we choose to see this, when it comes to Christ our conceptions and views of Him are changed.

There is no need whatsoever to regard him according to the flesh but are to see Him as the Spiritual Savior that He is.

Notice, that even if Paul is referring to the error of seeing Christ as a material warrior it is irrelevant – Paul is telling the believers at Corinth to “no longer esteem the Messiah in a fleshly or material sense, but rather in an eternal one- which is the invisible sense – as the Redeemer of Sin (which is invisible) as the Lord of our lives (spiritually) over a Kingdom that was never of this world (but is of that world on high).

This is not saying that we have no relation or mind of Christ, but I would suggest that our view and understanding of him personally, as we have a growing and maturing relationship with Him, shifts from the temporal life of Him and refocuses on the Spiritual eternal nature of His ongoing Lordship.

Now, there is a lot to consider in this but here me out quickly.

Jesus came to the House of Israel as their material Messiah. He walked among them, taught them (and pretty much them only) was not a political savior or a ruler on earth for them but a savior of the soul (and the body for some) who received him by faith.

For them, He had to be a Son of David, he had to be circumcised, he had to obey the Law, etc.

All good and makes for a tremendous story and backdrop for what God has done to reconcile the world to Himself.

But the reality is, this physical ministry, while vital to it all being accomplished, and necessary to redeem the world, the physical life and ministry of Jesus was officially three years long.

To make this our focus, to worship the fleshly Christ, to place our all on those things that pretty much related to the House of Israel is to miss part of the point and that part is the most essential part.

In other words, to focus entirely on His flesh alone – from birth to burial – is to ignore that part that reflects why and what Jesus did to bring many sons and daughters to glory – he resurrected!

He rose to new life, and then disappeared to rule and reign spiritually over his invisible kingdom.

I would suggest that Paul is telling the people at Corinth to know Christ, who has left them materially, spiritually now.

Of course, always remembering His earthly walk, and His teachings and even His death but to not really Know HIM in this manner, but to know Him for who He became, who He is, and where He is presently.

Because that is where Christ ended or concluded His fleshly walk with – a spiritual transformation, a spiritual kingdom in a spiritual destination where everything is done by and through the Spirit.

The writer of Hebrews touches on this concept (as you know) when he wrote:

Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

And then he adds

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Jesus was on the earth to bring reconcile the fallen world to God but the hope (if I can use this term) would be for all to become sons – as He was a Son of God.

If His flesh was consummate and paramount in this endeavor (it was vital but not the end game) then His impact in our lives would be fleshly, physical.

But it is not. Its spiritual – and it is by spiritual means that he brings us to the Father, not fleshly.

When Jesus was on earth his mother and brothers were calling for him – his actual literal mother and brothers – and Jesus said in Matthew 12:50

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

This statement pushes us way beyond the flesh of His own brothers and mother, and way beyond the flesh of his Brethren in the Nation of Israel who He came in FLESH to save, but clearly points to the import of spiritual regeneration and the capacity in that state to walk in the newness of life.

This cause the writer of Hebrews to also say:

Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Here I have cited two references where Jesus, the Son of God, has referred to people being His brethren and/or sistern and mothers, and to a group of people he is not ashamed to call brethren.

We are also aware that Paul said that those who suffer with him would be joint-heirs with him – again, the implication that Jesus, as a Son of God, was an heir, and that those who pick up their cross (and suffer) would be too.

This idea leads me to some thoughts on the make-up or ontology of Christ which I want to share with you in conclusion of today. I hope I can do Him justice.

THE THE THE
OTHER IDEA TRINITARIAN GOD LDS GODHEAD

One God – who is eternal, is Word,
Is Spirit, send His Word into a child
Who is born of a woman.

The Words of God became flesh in the Man Jesus of Nazareth. This was God with us. The Man Jesus, born of a woman, the Only Human Son of God, overcame his flesh, as one of us, and, AS THE ONLY SON OF GOD, taught US HOW TO BE CHILDREN of GOD.

The Co-Equal, Co-Eternal, Uncreated Son comes to earth, as a person of GOD, and shows us what it is like for GOD to be a man and overcome flesh.

The created Spirit Son of Material God comes to earth and takes on a body, and shows us how to become Gods.
THE RESULTS

Jesus of Nazareth, the Only one born of the Spirit who has God as His father, shows us what it means to ALSO be Children of God.

All who are regenerated by God become children as Jesus was at birth, but because of tainted flesh, we have sin.
Jesus had no sin nor did He commit sin, showing us that we can be Children of God.

This is relatable, it is brotherly (in flesh) and it answers so many mysteries about Jesus as God.

In Jesus, the only Son of God, God was able to reconcile the World to Himself.

What was in Jesus, from His father, was God, was eternal, was uncreated, was co-equal – because it was God.

But there was no person to possessed baby Jesus that was a person co equal through all eternity.

THE RESULTS

God Himself – in the eternal person of the Son who was equal with God, co-eternal, and uncreated – came to earth and took on a physical body.

He showed us to God Himself would live if He lived on earth.

He was not showing us how to be Children of God but was showing us how God would be a human.

That is a very different thing.

It is less relatable.
It is less admirable.

And it has a person doing something for God that other persons did not do.
THE RESULTS

Jesus the spirit person came down to show other spirit persons how to live as a spirit child of God since all are spirit children of God.

He is setting an example for the rest of us, presumably possessing traits and characteristics that the rest of us do not.

His walk was closer to our walk than the trinitarian view because he came to take on unfamiliar flesh and had to overcome like we do in a much closer manner than the trinitarian example but the end is not so that we can become Sons of God (we are already that) but is to show us how to become Gods ourselves!

So,this is VERY different theme than the Other but it is closer than it is to the Trinitarian view.

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