Main Topic: Baptism for the Dead

Show 38 Seventeen Points XIX
Baptism for the Dead
September 9th 2008
Live! From the “Mecca of Mormonism”
-SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH-
This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology. . . .

“Where Mormonism Meets Christianity Face to Face!”

And I’m Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion., your host.

If you have family or friends or enemies that should or would like to watch the show but don’t receive it, have them go to www.hotm.tv and they can watch “Heart” from anywhere in the world through streaming video! Hey, Heart of the Matter can also be heard tonight – right now, in fact, on KUTR AM 820 – “The Truth.” This is a new AM radio station here in Utah and let me tell you, they deliver the goods: 50000 watts of transmission power. Tremendous programming where you actually hear the Word! And now they air Heart of the Matter every Wednesday Night from 8 to 9 pm! KUTR AM 820 – The Truth.

This coming Saturday, I will be at the Lifeway Christian Bookstore on State Street in Murray for a book signing from 11 am to 1 in the afternoon. Lifeway is a great Christian bookstore, among others, that serves the Salt Lake Valley. Come on down and say hello – that’s Saturday, September 13th, from 11 to 1 at the Lifeway Christian Bookstore in Murray – right there on State street across from the _____________ mall.

Outreach Event: Burning Heart 08

Then, the following Saturday, we are holding our annual outreach event: Burning Heart 08, The Day of Decision at Sugarhouse Park late afternoon till dusk. Let me tell you, we have got some GREAT things planned! First, we’ve got Subway providing boxed meals at a deep discount. We’ll have popcorn, drinks, and snow cones! T-Shirts, books, DVD’s and other products and materials free and for a price (including a new, pre-press book I’ve written on a secular topic). Then . . . then we have the musical guests. Freaking awesome!

1. The Christ EV worship team will be there to lead us toward Him.
2. Michael Davis will be there.
3. Then we’re going to have ___________
4. Then (strange music guy)
5. Then, to top the night off, we’re going to be blessed to hear “Adam’s Road” all the way from Florida, who will lead us right into the brief evening message by yours truly.

We’re going to have local churches and their pastors there:

And after the Day of Decision speech, we’re going to have an open water baptism in a heated pool! Grab your inactive LDS family, friends, and neighbors . . . Grab your friends who worry, and wander, and wonder . . . Grab a blanket and . . . And join us at Burning Heart 08, The Day of Decision.

Now Michael is perhaps one of the best guitarists alive. Seriously. I had the privilege to baptize Michael and his wife Denise and their son Aaron not too long ago in Idaho. Here’s a brief clip of his shredding skill. (show clip) Michael will be at Burning Heart to share what God has done in his life through his music.

CAMPUS Launch

Then, the next day, Sunday September 21st, we are launching CAMPUS: Christian Assemblies Meeting (to) Prayerfully Understand Scripture.

Where? Our morning service will take place at the University of Utah from 9:15 to 10:15 am. Then we are going to hold evening services at Utah State in Logan, Weber State in Ogden, and in the same room at the U of U here in Salt Lake. If you are looking for a place to learn the Word verse by verseTGNN’s Bible teaching series—book-by-book, through the lens of fulfillment and spiritual liberty. from beginning to end, come join us every Sunday at the University of Utah. And remember – we are no longer gathering at the theaters here in downtown Salt Lake City but have moved both morning and evening services to the University of Utah. Go to www.lordsword.org for more information like times and maps.

And with that, let’s have a prayer. PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER

Before we conclude next week with our examination of the LDS concept of the Seventeen Points of the True Church, I was informed that I skipped one – it reads – if you can believe it: The True Church MUST practice baptism of the dead.

Does your church practice baptism of the dead? If it doesn’t, the Mormons say your church is NOT true. Well what is baptism for the dead? From where did it originate and how is it done today?

Points on Baptism for the Dead

First of all, let me make a few points before we actually discuss this practice the LDS call baptism for the dead.

Point One: To embrace the practice as Mormonism presents it is to embrace the false notion that baptism is necessary for

Salvation and Baptism

salvation. And to embrace the notion that baptism is an absolute demand to be saved is to add to what Jesus did on the cross. Is baptism good and beneficial. Yes – certainly. But so was circumcision. Baptism is a means of identification. It is an outward proclamation made by someone who has accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives.

Built in to the act of baptism for the dead is the man-made idea that everyone MUST be baptized to be acceptable to God, forgetting the premise of Galatians 5:4 that says to those who add to grace that:

“Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”

The Thief on the Cross

Jesus told the thief on the cross who received Him by faith:

“Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

Now this word paradise is not a waiting place where the thief would go in order to wait for a member of the LDS church to vicariously baptism him after 1840, but paradise is a Persian word and is used NOT, according to Robertson, to be a temporary or intermediate state; but the very bliss of heaven itself. This Persian word was used for an enclosed park or pleasure ground (so Xenophon) and it occurs in two other passages in the N.T. (2Co 12:4; Re 2:7), in both of which the reference is plainly to heaven itself. The thief on the cross was not baptized. The thief on the cross went directly to heaven. Baptism is not required to enter into heaven.

If you want more insight into what baptism is, what it means, and it’s biblical applications, go to HOTM.TV and go to the show archives. Watch the 2006 six show #27 on Baptism then check the information out for yourselves.

Okay . . . another point we must consider relative to this practice of baptism for the dead is the point of how insipid – ignorant, actually – for anyone to take any single biblical verse and build an entire doctrine and practice upon it.

Misinterpretation of Scripture

On my LDS mission, I learned that the Amish would not chop wood because in scripture, Jesus said: “What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” What is unfortunate for the Amish, is they neglected to recall that this passage was contextually speaking of marriage!

In fact, taken as a whole, the verse says:

“Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

But context become unimportant when men have a teaching they want to push on others. This is the case of baptism for the dead, as proposed by one Joseph Smith, Jr.

Contextually, the single biblical reference to baptism for the dead is couched in a magnificent Paulinian teaching on resurrection, and has no other reference in the word – and for good reason.

Let's discuss the context of this passage now.

First Corinthians 15 and Resurrection

First Corinthians chapter 15 is the definitive argument for resurrection in scripture. It is presented by Paul and he uses a Greek method, so to speak, to speak to the believers at Corinth who had stopped believing in a literal resurrection. The Greek tactic was called “Ad Hominem” and it did not mean to attack the man as it means today, but it was a method of taking a premise and reducing it down to prove that the premise was non-sensical.

Paul reminds the Saints at Corinth that they had the truth preached to them at one time, and that this good news included that 1) Christ died for our sins, that he was buried, and that He rose again on the third day. Paul continues through verse 5 through 11 to rehearse to these misguided believers the many people who witnessed Jesus as a resurrected being. Then in verse 12, he states:

1st Corinthians 15:12 ¶ Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

So there is the false teaching that was going on there with the believers at Corinth – that there is no resurrection of the dead. Got it?

Then he begins to work through the error of their logic backward:

He says:

1st Co 15:13-19 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

(meaning, if there is a universal truth that resurrection is a lie, then Jesus was not resurrected! Then he says)

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

(in

Paul's Argument on the Resurrection

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

(Paul here tells them that if there is no resurrection than they are all liars – false witnesses of God!)

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Then, in verse 18, he uses the phrase “fallen asleep.” “Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.”

(Now this is an important verse relative to our discussion – “they which are fallen asleep.” This phrase mean they who have died as Christians. Now many of those people who had died or fallen asleep as Christians had done so through the stress of persecution and even outright martyrdom – just think of Stephen, whom Paul helped off!)

The Hope in Christ

So Paul continues with his reductive argument (verse 19):

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

(meaning, it is the resurrection that makes the message, life, teachings, and hope in Christ lasting! Anyone who overcomes deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God. MUST have done and overcome all He said He would! ) Get it?!

Now verse 20 through 28 are like a parenthetical reference. Here Paul reverses from the ad hominem reductive method and builds on what the resurrection of Jesus means relative to Adam, sinMissing the mark of faith and love—no punishment, just lost growth or peace., and firstfruits.

THEN . . . we pick his reductive argument against their premise – which is that there is no resurrection – with verse 29 and 30.

And verse 29 in the verse Joseph Smith pulled out and used to justify this time-wasting practice called baptism for the dead.

Prior to reading verse 29, remember all the things Paul said in verses 1-19, and then preface your reading with Paul saying:

Again, you don’t believe in the resurrection (now read verse 29) well then

“Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Baptism for the Dead

Now listen! Paul is referring to them which had “fallen asleep” here. Those Christians who had died. He is saying, if they are not going to rise, why do you continue to baptize?

This is part of his reductive ad hom argument! He is taking their premise, and point by point showing how ignorant the premise is by comparing it with facts.

Understanding the context of this verse – that Paul was speaking of those Christians who had died or passed on, many from persecution, will help with understand the Greek which reads:

(hoi baptizomenoi huper tôn nekrôn).

Now that word “Huper” is the Greek word for the word “for” in

What shall they do which are baptized FOR the dead.

That word huper does not mean for the dead, it means “to take the place” or to “replace” the dead.

In other words, the baptism for the dead Paul is speaking of is in reference to the baptism of new converts who is taking the place or replacing the spot in the body that was vacated by the death of another Christian – probably through persecution!

Why do I say that?

Read the next verse, where Paul adds:

“And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?”

In other words, Paul says, Look you say there is no resurrection. If this is the case, you have no reason to hope, we are all made liars, and those believers who have been killed have died in vain.

And then he says: And yet you keep baptizing people (which replace those who have been killed) to what purpose? So they can be killed too?

Why are we standing in jeopardy every hour of this persecution if none of us are going to rise?

Being a Christian during those years was very dangerous business, so Paul was essentially saying to these guys, “if there is no resurrection, there is absolutely no point at all to bring in new converts – ESPECIALLY THROUGH THE PUBLIC ACT OF BAPTISM – and putting them in the same danger as those who they are replacing that have been killed?

“And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?”

There’s no point! If there is no resurrection, just let everyone die who has called themselves Christian and stop replacing them with new converts which only puts them in

The Doctrine of Proxy Baptism

It is impossible, when reading the bible in context, to ever – EVER – EVER support the doctrine or practice of taking a live person and baptizing them for a dead one so they can be eligible to enter heaven. By accepting this rudimentary falsehood, faithful members are then led to believe that the dead must also have other required works done in order to enter heaven.

The Process and Its Demands

So we first have the research needed to get the names of dead people who have not received the LDS baptism. Then the proxy baptism must be done – and it is usually by teens – in the dead person’s name. Then, if the dead person is male, he must receive the LDS priesthoods – by laying hands on another proxy – both the Aaronic and Melchezidek priesthoods – which are two separate blessings. I would guess that at this point maybe two or three hours of a living person's life has been spent minimum on the dead subject.

Then someone must go through what is called the “initiatory” work for the dead subject. Another hour when everything is said and done. Then a person must go through an endowment session – which is another two and a half hours when everything is all said and done. Then the dead subject must go through a sealing of himself to his wife and children with is another hour, when it is all said and done.

And then once all this “work” is completed by some faithful, well-meaning, believing but uninformed member of the Mormon church, the dead person on the “other side” will decide if they want to accept these things or not. If they do, they get to live at some level in the celestial kingdom. If they don’t, they do not ever get to live with God.

This insipid practice ties a living, breathing individual to get a babysitter, leave their children, and spend at least eight hours of proxy work in the temple to offer salvation to one dead relative, friend, or stranger. All from one passage totally misinterpreted and completely misapplied.

Spiritual Manipulation

One of the hallmarks of frightening spiritual manipulation are the heavy and relentless demands an institution places on its victims. Where there is never any time to rest and reflect outside the institution and its events, there is never any time to question or think. Worship God.

Jesus said, "Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." He bore the cross. He carried all the burden. He – and He alone – is the source of salvation, the source of exaltation, the source of life eternal.

Let’s go to the phones:

(801) 973-TV20
(801) 973-8820

Don’t forget two events coming up! This Saturday, from 11 to 1 pm, a book signing at Lifeway Books on State Street in Murray AND The following Saturday late afternoon to dusk – Burning Heart at Sugarhouse Park in Salt Lake City! Be there!

And we’ll see you next week here on Heart of the Matter.