12 Step Program

Understanding the Faith

1-3 Quotes

For nearly 2000 years and all over the world churches have been playing church with billions of people clinging to attendance and service of the brick and mortar. Would all of this time and money and empire building be necessary of Jesus has already come back and taken his bride? We think so. Find out why by tuning in each week to www.hotm.tv

HOTM 2.0 Twelve Step Program November 28th 2017

Board of Direction

(see below the #1-12)

Hey guys, thanks for joining us.

Let’s pray.

Got a lot on my mind and heart tonight so let’s get to it. As I have met and talked with pastors over the past few weeks, heard their hearts, read their words, I realized that I am communicating with men who have a worldview of which I am no longer a part. It has been fascinating on what this has amounted to as I’ve been involved in these discussions. And so I think it's important to try and clearly articulate a couple key points about how I view the faith in our world.

The Perspective of Modern Christianity

When speaking with these fine men I realize that they take this book and they really, really believe that its contents are directly applicable to them today – right now. They use the book as a manual for both doing church and for how they believe the entire church world should operate. I won’t talk about the obvious issues with this approach because in their worlds the issues don’t matter that much – they have their views and approaches and opinions and as long as they can convince themselves that those ways are somehow in harmony with what the manual says, then they are a-okay. And this is the way the world of organized Christianity has pretty much operated for the past few thousand years – every man attempting to lead according to what the manual says.

With this view in hand, they also operate under the opinion that all believers are to operate by the same rules – that if I am a Christian, and the rules for the Christian are set, then we must all operate by them. That’s the order of things by golly. And it SHOULD be the order of things . . . it should . . . IF there is a Church that is Christ’s, that He is coming to rescue, and unity in the faith is vital to the group's survival.

A Different Understanding of Faith

All that being said, I do NOT see the faith in these ways. It can certainly be approached from these angles but the approaches have proved themselves a failure. In what way do I see the faith that is so far afield from the mainstream? I’m not alone in this but I see this book as completely fulfilled. Completely. I see it as the inspired writings of living apostles who were necessary to bear Jesus's church forward through tremendous difficulty before He came back, as promised, to save it and them. From the prophecies of Him in the Old Testament, to His birth, to his life, deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God., resurrection, and promised return it is all here, and has been completed as promised.

All of the apostles who wrote promised this to their readers. They were not wrong. Jesus promised it to his apostles. He was not wrong. To say otherwise is to both call Jesus and his apostles wrong and to continue to try and play church – in an age that is done.

Hebrews 8:10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; (We learn from Paul that all by faith are of the House of Israel and not just Jews, right? So this is what God said he would do after the fulfillment of the ages) I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.”

This is the age where darkness may still rage against the dark, but Satan has been cast into the Lake of Fire, along with hell and his angels. This is the age where the victory has been had! By God through Christ. An age of the heavenly Jerusalem where those who love

Exploring Spiritual Kingdom Concepts

God more than this world are part of this spiritual kingdom. All material applications are over – the victory has been had! He has taken His bride and His everlasting kingdom will continue forward forever more, adding new members who come to faith by the Spirit. When we take the Bible and try to demand that it has objective demands it leads to nothing but division and materialism. When we see it and accept it FOR WHAT IT SAYS, it's all done – and everyone is free to believe and receive or reject what God abundantly offers all.

With this view, I have never been part of the boys club. When I look at what deacons and elders boards have allowed over the ages I cringe. Not being part I stand outside and probe and question. To be apart would demand complicity – which cannot be. So I thought that needed to be explained.

Transparency and Updates

Let’s do some quick updates of what is happening in the state under the auspices of total transparency with those involved in the faith. Called Apologist James White about coming on the show early next year – nothing back yet – but he said he was willing so I imagine we will work this out. Said last week that I had texted Jason Wallace but had not heard anything back. The reason for this was I errantly sent a text to his home phone. He emailed me and asked me to apologize for this – so Jason, “I am sorry I sent him a text to a number I thought was your cell phone.” He asked me what the text said and I sent him the following in an email: “How about a truce? In the name of the King of peace? I'm willing if you are willing.” In response, I received an email back that said, among other things – “no, there will be no truce,” unless I apologize and change my beliefs.

Jason is bothered by my choice of words to describe him and by my calling his version of God a monster – plus he says that I preach a false Gospel where people are not “truly” regenerated. I stand by all of this but there will be a truce with Pastor Wallace and I will tell you how in a minute.

What led to my being willing to establish at least a one-sided truce with Pastor Jason. It was the Christian leadership of another pastor in the state – Terry Long of CCSLC. I’ll get to this story in a minute. Derrick and I sat down with Paul Robie and Rick of South Mountain yesterday for quite some time. There was lots to say. We left agreeing to examine some issues and I greatly appreciated their willingness to dialogue face to face. We said we would meet again and I hope we do. If you can’t tell we are trying to establish as much common ground as possible before we launch Phase B in mid-2018. That is what all these talks are about. I hope to be having more sit-downs with pastors along the Wasatch front in the months to come.

Building Bridges

One more thing before I get to my change of heart toward Jason Wallace. I received some information about The Rock yesterday and it was not favorable. It was about giving. I called Bill Young directly and he called me back. Bill and I have known each other and he was very friendly and I explained what I had been told and he flat-out denied the contents of the story altogether – even saying that the thing made him sick to his stomach. I was so grateful not only for the report but for Bill responding to my inquiry honestly and quickly. More bridges being built.

Reconciliation Efforts

Okay, most of you don’t know but Terry Long of Calvary Chapel Salt Lake and I have “a somewhat hot and cold history” that dates back more than a decade. I haven’t talked to Terry face to face (or online) since 2012 – and I allowed myself to remain distant from him. Following biblical precedent, I did NOT ever speak out against Terry or CCSLC publicly but not following biblical counsel I stored anger in my heart toward him without going to him directly. I’ve been guilty of that lately and have hopefully learned my lesson.

Anyway, I got an email from Terry a few weeks ago where he suggested that we get together. I wrote back and challenged the invitation.

The Power of Christian Love and Forgiveness

but moreso the motivation for bringing it in the first place. He wrote back and kindly asked me to just let Jesus come into our discussion – which angered me due to our history and the condition of my heart toward him.

We exchanged emails with Terry maintaining a dedication to healing and with my emails becoming more and more accusatory – of things from the past. But he was relentless in pushing for healing. I was finally fed up and felt myself forced to write him “a magnum opus” of charges he has leveled at my life.

I mean, I got into things dating all the way back to 2005 before I ever even came to the state! That’s was twelve long years of baggage and I hit him with dates and quotes and event’s and accused him of all sorts of stuff. And then I purposely closed the email off with some really belligerent statements thinking that this would bring the Old Terry Long out who I was sure was hiding behind this façade of love.

A Lesson in Patience and Grace

Nothing doing. Every time . . . with every thing I thru at him, he came back to me with some expression of Christian love – patience, a willingness to accept the blame (even at time when he was unsure if he was culpable) and honestly explaining where I was wrong where I was wrong. My friends, I did NOT recognize the man writing me. For a moment I honestsly thought it was someone using his name. His responses were the responses that I teach all Christians are to have one toward each other – but he was the one who was doing expressing them – relentlessly asking me to let God in my heart to heal the rifts between us.

His words and ways were what Jesus would have said – without fail. Humble, not taking offense when he could have – but he was not rolling over either. He spoke in truth, but he spoke with the heart of a man who loves God first and as a result he was openly and humbly willing to love me the face of old wounds.

Embracing Change and Healing

I closed the last email between us on Thanksgiving and spent time with family at a movie and dinner. But I tried to remain angry. I tried to figure out ways to disregard the evidence of him being a different man by being suspicious. I said to myself that he was just feigning.

But the Spirit would not allow me to continue with what I was trying to do . . . and all night long it pressed down on my heart, humbling me. I am telling you, it was one of the most impressive things I have ever seen in terms of real change in a person and in terms of an honest representation of Jesus in the ways of a believer – who was, by the way, being attacked for things that happened years ago – many of which he couldn’t even remember!

I saw a similar reaction in Dave Nelson. But Dave and I don’t have the history that Terry and I have. By dawn the walls around my heart had fallen. And humbled before our God, through the Spirit which Terry relentlessly invited into our discussion, I saw that it was me who needed to be loving, and patience, and willing to change.

Terry had already arrived. I was trailing behind, choking in the dust of past differences and still resisting the growth he had experienced during the silent years between us. I applaud Terry’s maturity in the face of my immaturity, of His willingness to suffer as Christ suffered, and His showing me what it means to be a real brother in the King.

With all of this having happened, and Pastor Long leading the way, I quickly realized that I need to rethink how to address the rift with Jason Wallace. And I knew that it is now incumbent on me to approach Jason with the same love – in spite of his accusations. So instead of asking Jason if he is willing to make a truce, the truce will begin with me. No more talk against flesh and blood. Against institutions? Yes. But the warfare does not lie with believers but with institutions powered from dark places on high.

That attack will not cease nor the prescriptions to fix

Changing Dynamics in Christian Churches

But I’ve been shown that the interpersonal war with flesh and blood must end. And so it will. Okay.

Last week we took some time to describe the how’s and why’s Christian churches today are going to radically change in the future – if they want to remain operational. We suggested that the following factors were going to play a major role in these changes – The Churches won’t be able to continue to meet the expectations of the people. The Millennials and their demands won’t sustain them. Governmental impositions will inhibit them. Corporate sway will infringe upon them and finally, Societal forces at large will force them to make major adaptations. I suggested that these forces will ultimately be inescapable and will forever alter the complexion of organized religion as it is known today.

Influence of Corporate Sway

In a very timely manner I received an email from John Dehlin yesterday. I was an amazing support for my claim of corporate sway stepping into the realm of non-religious service organizations. This is what is said: Double your donations to our non-profit tomorrow. How? Bill and Melinda Gates were offering to match any donations up to 2 million dollars to any non-profit beginning this morning at 6AM until the money runs out. Now, I guarantee you that Bill and Melinda Gates are not gonna match a Churches donations but they will certainly support non-religious donations of humanist organizations. And this is just a single example of the way Corporate sway will more and more, in the future, influence factors that will one day directly effect the churches. Anyway . . .

While these things are in my opinion inevitable, they were external forces which can be met with some internal changes that should help alleviate their deleterious effects upon the churches. We might recall that our primary goal here on HOTM 2.0 is to help remove and or reduce anything and everything that serves to place individual followers of Christ in bondage. I propose that the more bondage a church is able to eradicate from the lives of individual people the more resistant their particular church will be to these external forces against their survival.

Ending Religious Authority

So let me boldly present to you twelve things I believe all Christians churches on earth ought to begin to implement today toward this end. Most (if not all) will be rejected – but in time all of them will be seen as normative not because of their popularity but because the Bible will first – first – prove their merit. Did you hear what I said – I propose these measures because they are what the BIBLE suggest. Some of you will recoil. Some of you will shout heretic from the housetops – but in the end, if you give me a chance, I think we can reasonably prove every one of these propositions through a reasonable and contextual application of the Word.

So here we go to our Board:
NUMBER . . .

• End all claims at religious authority. We need to stop pretending or suggesting that anyone in the church has any sort of religious or spiritual authority over any other person or congregate. The only authority a one person may have over another is administrative (as in scheduling the use of the building, etc.) But there is zero mediation warranted between any individual and God. There is not a pastor on earth who can legitimately prove any sort of power or influence over another. No man has been given the mediatorial rights over another soul. So let’s put an end to this assumption (or pretention) now. This will emancipate many people when it actually happens.

Education, degrees or licenses do not bestow authority. Stature or personal call of God does not give it. Powers of persuasion don’t grant it.

Because it doesn’t exist. So pastors or Reverends need to stop acting like it does. And then make this stance very very clear.

Let me appeal to a radical example which I’ve used before but it goes unheeded.

Church weddings and marriages. This is a modern construct of religion man. It is not biblical. If we stuck with the biblical model of marriage we would recognize that churches and pastors do not perform marriages – people do, before God – when they become one. In the garden there was no marriage ceremony. God did not marry Adam and Eve. God saw them as one. When a man and woman become one they are married in God’s eyes – like it or not.

When Abraham took Hagar to wife, no pastor came out of the hills

Understanding Marriage and Faith Through a Biblical Lens

Abraham took Hagar into the tent and made her his wife. This is the biblical model. I’m not speaking of wedding celebrations here. I’m talking about biblical marriage and it has nothing to do with a pastor. If we begin to teach it properly, we will be released from having to “marry” anyone—because true marriage can only occur when a man and woman become one, which enables them to create children. This is just one example of stepping back from religious authority of any kind.

• I think it is only fair and reasonable that all churches stop teaching or preaching that Jesus has not yet returned. Notice how (for argument's sake) I put this—I did not say that Jesus will not be coming back. Nor did I say that the world is not headed to disaster. But if we are to be honest, we must all begin by unitedly admitting that Jesus has come back. It’s the Bible that supports and proves this. Any reasonable person has to admit that the Bible supports this view or that Jesus and His apostles were wrong. And I don’t accept the latter. So let’s study it out and then at least admit that He has returned.

The Role of Churches in Faith

This view will go such a long way in fixing so many other problems in brick and mortar church playing today.

• I think that every church called Christian ought to start teaching the people the Word of God contextually week in and out for the simple reason being that faith comes by hearing the word. Some are doing this, some are not. This is a necessary mandate of pastors—to feed the sheep the Word of the Lord—and if done right, people of all levels of understanding will comprehend it to some extent or another. This is not the job of the people. It is the job of the shepherds. So small groups are never going to fulfill this need. But pastors (shepherds can) and should. It’s a no brainer. But it's not done because the shepherds think feeding them their words is better. Not so. In my limited estimation, this is what believers gather together for—to hear the Word of God.

• I also suggest an end to the foolhardy teaching that the faith must be objectively understood and that we replace that archaic teaching with the idea that the faith is subjectively lived and believed; that all people not only have the unalienable right before God to “think as they will” but to remember that most do this anyway. So, let’s let them—knowing that when there is the liberty of thought, there is the freedom to love. Teach the Word and let everyone decide how they will believe and receive it. Not having any religious authority, pastors are free to let this liberty reign and not divide over things.

Rethinking Traditional Beliefs

• Additionally, I think that there ought to be a serious rethinking of the traditional teaching of an afterlife eternal hell of actual fire; that when we examine scripture contextually, we see there was a time and place of a “covered place separate from God,” but this idea is over with the victory of Christ, which came with His return. Again, we use the scripture to prove this, not our preferences—and let the Spirit abide.

• Personally, I think we would do well to stop dogmatically demanding that God must be described in absolute terms of definitive man-made certainty. That we might open all ideas up to some scrutiny and wonderment and perhaps use the weight of scripture and what it suggests to "guide us" better rather than making dogmatic mountains out of scripture molehills. Let’s agree that God is one, that Jesus (God’s only begotten Son) is our Lord and Savior, God in the flesh, and that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. If people want to call God a Trinity, fine. If they don’t, fine. But enough of these man-made demands on others.

Encouraging Individual Beliefs

• We would do better as a body to stop insisting that one systematic theology is preferred over another (Reformed / Arminian/or any other). But let’s let every person admit to leaning one way or another while allowing all others to lean whichever way they will. Again, this is between individual believers. Institutionally,

Critique of Church Practices

I personally believe that Calvinism and Arminianism create a God who fails – and that is not how I see Him in scripture. But it does not mean I can’t love and embrace a Calvinist or Arminianist.

We also would do well to put an end to putting building plans and the funding of them on the backs of the people. Instead, maybe the church as a whole could put a moratorium on building and begin a move to begin to deconstruct what exists materially so as to fund missional and humanitarian aid throughout the world. There is absolutely zero rationalization in scripture for the gathering places of believers to be based on a material footprint that requires massive amounts of money.

Emphasize that the blending of church and state in any way ought to be anathema and church begin to stand back from political leanings of any kind. There is no American Jesus and the Good News is as Good for the communist as the capitalist.

Of course the churches would do well by putting an end to taking up collections during worship, the use of the term tithes and offerings, and placing anyone under any kind of obligation to donate money to the church for any purpose under the sun. For all pastors to learn to trust God to provide for their immediate survival just as the pastor would tell their congregates to do the same.

Understanding the Bible

It would immeasurably serve the body of believers today to see the Bible for what it actually is – a history of God saving the people of that former age and bringing judgment upon the rest. That it was not written to us in our day but has mighty spiritual application to anyone who reads it today and that is what it is – a spiritual map for every individual and not a literal manual on how to do religion.

In a step that will really shake up the scene, it is so vitally important for believers today to realize that God has had the complete victory over all things through His Son by the Spirit. We are not waiting on that victory to occur. As a result all people are free in Him – especially those who believe. Free to love as He loved, free to believe if people choose, but free to be loved by those who love Him.

Personal Reflections

Open up the phone lines

FROM ADRIAN

I wonder if you could link me to an up-to-date video you have regarding what the bible teaches on "Hell". I know the standard church…evangelical viewpoint…..and it confuses me. I`m a Believer in Christ….Born again….Not a regular churchgoer as such..Tried to be…But never really stuck with it…….

RESPONSE

Why didn’t Adrian stick with it? Why aren’t more and more people sticking with it? Because more and more, The LDS, Millennials, and Astute seekers are seeing church for what they are. Our hope is to help them change before it’s too late.

Brother Norris in New Zealand writes:

Hi Shawn,

I just started rewatching your show as of last week with the new format. I love the intro. The whole raging at the church with the Luther get-up was hilarious. I laugh out loud every time. (so do I. By the way, people think that I think that I am a Luther – and this intro did not help that rumor.) I am just a person like all other persons who wants what’s true. That’s it. And I am willing to stand up relentlessly to what is not.)

I feel like this is a huge step for you. I understand why you hit the pause button, and let’s be honest, the play button was never on. You have kept a lot of the animosity that was directed toward you and your family away from the screen, and fair enough: you were effectively taking the Christian stance of two wrongs don’t make a right – and there’s been a lot of wrongs made against you over the years.

I admire your tenacity to have stuck through it all. I’m really looking forward to the coming episodes and weeks as you choose to no longer hold back. I think we could all tell how hard it was for you when it came to broaching the Tanner story. What a blow that phone call would have been! Ouch! It’s probably for the best though, brother, as it does two things.

1. It brings it to the light. The truth helps set things and people free.
2. You can’t do it alone.

A Message of Understanding

The constant barrage of criticism from high rankers can only but grind on the soul of someone. So don’t be disheartened. I think that your approach isn’t to pull people down but to pull people up for their behavior towards you or to their sheep which they may be putting under some type of bondage to a man-made system.

(Gosh, I love this guy – it is so nice to be understood.)

Keep on doing what you’re doing. Keep on spreading the love and spreading the kingdom that cannot be shaken. That’s the kingdom we’re part of. It’s an amazing thing being children of God in the age that was to come. Keep sharing the liberty!!

From your New Zealand friend,

Like my friend and brother Norris discerned, I am NOT out to harm or hurt – anybody – not Sandra, not the Pastors, not even the Salieri’s out there. I am honestly, with God as my witness, out to pull people up and into the light. My enemies call this light heresy, my critics call it darkness, those who misunderstand my intensions call it mean-spiritedness, but it is time for the churches of Utah to unitedly become more like Jesus, not less.

Seeking True Teaching

Hello Shawn,

I contacted you a few weeks back about my girlfriend leaving Mormonism. You said for me to be careful of which churches we attend… I thought about this and I have been trying many different Christian churches in the valley and it seems like it is too much to ask to find a church or a body that teaches out of the word for an hour… I have found these churches are geared to gain a following and present different series to try and entertain the community rather than teaching the word. I am craving the word and I try to read my Bible but I am having a difficult time understanding a lot of the word so that's why I look for a good church or gathering of individuals and a pastor who is able to teach the word and not have all the extra social club stuff going on… I was hoping you could help point me to a direction where I can find this? Or am I better off to try and understand it myself?

Thanks, Austen

Website Updates

Hey just to let you know – we are revamping all of our websites – actually our brother in Sweden is doing this for us – and so we have a temporary site set up. Bear with us. Also, you can tune in on Sundays 10 AM or 2:30 pm for our verse by verseTGNN’s Bible teaching series—book-by-book, through the lens of fulfillment and spiritual liberty. teaching of the Bible.

So until next week, HOTM 2.0 is . . . OUT!