1 Peter 4:12-13 Bible Teaching

WELCOME
PRAYER
WORD TO MUSIC
SILENCE

And when we come back we will continue with where we left off last week – which was on the Question:

Who was God talking to when He said, “Let us” four times in the Old Testament.

1st Peter 4.13
November 8th 2015
Meat

Alright, we are in 1st Peter chapter 4 and we ended in it at verse 11.

Peter has been telling us to share out gifts hospitably with all people and in verse eleven he seems to shift to the gifts we share in the administration of the Body, saying:

11 If any man speak (which I interpreted as, “preach”) let him speak (preach) as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: (and we ended with him writing) that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

And this launched us into a discussion about the make-up of God. If you weren’t here with us (or have not watched what was said it would be worth your time to review the contents of last weeks Meat Gathering).

In that Gathering we got to talking about knowing the make-up of God (also known as the ONTOLOGY of God) and we compared this to knowing God from the heart or spiritually (what is often called Epistemological knowledge of God).

We noted that human beings have and will differ as to the make-up of God, but that ALL of are His know Him epistemologically – from the heart, in the mind and with the soul.

Having said this, we took a minute to examine some of the ontological mysteries scripture presents about God.

And we focused on four passages in the Old Testament that speak of God (actually, where God speaks of Himself) in what is called the plural pronouns of
“we, us, and our.”

First, Genesis 1:26
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness….”
Second, Genesis 3:22
“God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.”
Third, Genesis 11:7 where God said,
“Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech”
And fourth (in Isaiah 6:8) where the Lord says,
“Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?”
We noted that among these four specific plural pronouns there are thousands of other references that refer to God (and where God refers to Himself) in the singular.

In response to the question, “So then who was God talking to” we provided the top three answers of four and said:

That God was talking to Himself, sort of like we might say to ourselves, “now what should we do, what should we do.” But we noted that the Hebrew has God speaking to someone other than himself so this is not so good.
We then said that God was speaking in what is known as “the Majestic Plural” and we cited areas where this form of plurality is used in the Old Testament. But we suggested that this was an inferior response since IF God is a plural then there would be thousands of references indicating this rather than four.
The third theory says that God was speaking prophetically of Jesus who, though not yet physical, was present from the foundation of the world.

We wrapped our time up saying about this theory that although not beyond the realm of possibility, there is not much Biblical merit to the idea that God was speaking to the Son “prophetically.”

And we concluded:
So if Jesus was not physically at the creation, and God was not speaking to Him in some prophetic foreknowledge, and if God was not “deliberating in His own mind,” nor “speaking of Himself in a majectic plural sense,” who was God speaking to in these four verses?
Contrary to the interpretation of Trinitarians we know that this first passage in Genesis 1:26 (which says)
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness….”
That it cannot mean that there was anyone besides God who created.
Yahweh said Himself, “I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself” (Isaiah 44:24).
Malachi argued, “Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?” (Malachi 2:10).
It is very clear that there is only one Creator, and He is Yahweh.
Admittedly (and truthfully) Jesus is said “to have created the worlds,” but He did so not as the Son of God but as Yahway before the incarnation.
This does not deny, however, that the worlds were created with God-incarnate in mind. Speaking of the Word of Yahway prior to incarnation, John 1:3 says:
“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
Colossians 1:6 says, speaking of Jesus made flesh –
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him.”
So we would have to say that truly all things were made with “Christ made flesh” in the center of them, so to speak.
Directly following God’s use of plural pronouns in verse twenty-six it says that
“God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him….”
But not the singularity of the passage – man was created according to “one image” (God created man in HIS own image NOT in their own image) in the image of God created He Him.
So I would suggest that in this first passage of a plural pronoun that God was speaking to angels.
The grammar of these verses support this view – which is the following:
God (plural) said (third person masculine singular), “Let us make (first person common plural) man (singular masculine noun) in our image (“image” is a first person common plural suffix), after our likeness (“likeness” is a feminine singular noun with a first person common plural suffix).”3
The plural pronouns “us” and “our” must be referring to someone other than God because the verb used in connection with “God” is singular.
If God was speaking to Himself in a plural form the pronouns would also need to be singular to modify the verb.
Because the pronouns are plural in form, God was truly speaking to someone else.
The very fact that God uses singular pronouns when speaking of Himself in thousands of cases causes us to question why He chose to use plural pronouns in this passage and in the other three mentioned earlier.
Now, though God (elohim) is in plural form here, it does not indicate that God is more than one.
Certainly elohim can mean more than one, but if it was intended in this way here, the connecting verb would also have to be plural. In this sentence, however, the verb is singular indicating that the elohim who is speaking is one in number.
In the verses preceding Genesis 1:26 (which speak of the creative acts of God) (LISTEN) singular pronouns are used exclusively in reference to God, and in verse twenty-six a singular verb is used.
There must therefore be some reason for this peculiar usage in these passages.
In verse twenty-six two plural pronouns and a plural verb are used in connection with God. This change in usage indicates that God is now including others in His address.
Now, the only beings created at this point were the angels, so it seems best to understand angels to be the recipients of God’s address. And LISTEN – this has been the interpretation of the Jews regarding this verse.
I want to go through the four passages and explain how and why I believe this is so.
Job 38:4 and 7 tell us that the angels were present at creation so it is quite possible that God was speaking to them.
He addressed the angels in a courteous manner, acknowledging that they too had an image like His. God created man in the image of Himself, an image shared by the angels also.
Two objections pop up at this point:
First, “How could angels be said to have an image or likeness to God?” and Second, “How could angels help God create man?”
So first, “How could angels be said to have an image or likeness to God?”
It seems best to see the “image” in which man was created to be one of moral, spiritual, intellectual, and emotional qualities rather than any physical qualities or similarities.
God and angels both possess all of these attributes that men have.
Sometimes we view angels as android beings created by God that have no choice but to serve Him in holiness and righteousness, being emotionless, and have no way of thinking for themselves.
This is an unbiblical view.
Peter said angels are interested in the activities of the church when he said concerning the gospel being preached with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, “which things the angels desire to look into” (I Peter 1:12).
(Remember when we covered that passage?)
We see from this verse that angels do have a will of their own by the fact that they desire to look into these things.
We don’t read that God commanded them to do this, but they have a desire to do so.
I would suggest that this indicates that angels have an emotional spectrum and intellectual independence. They have spiritual qualities in that they worship God and moral qualities in that they choose to stay pure.
The second objection to this postulation is
“How could angels help God create man?”
It doesn’t seem that angels participated in the creation of man in any way but they did participate in some way in the making of man.
The Hebrew word translated “make” in Genesis 1:26 is asah. The Hebrew word meaning “create” is bara.
Angels do not have the power to create anything, but might have shared in the making of man from the dust of the ground. Vine’s comparison and contrast of the two Hebrew words is helpful in this as it says:
In Genesis 1:26-27…`asah must mean creation from nothing, since it is used as a synonym for bara’. The text reads, “Let us make [`asah] man in our image, after our likeness…. So God created [bara’] man in his own image….”
Similarly, Genesis 2:4 says:
“These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created [bara’], in the day that the Lord God made [`asah] the earth and the heavens.”
Finally, Genesis 5:1 also equates the two as follows:
“In the day that God created [bara’] man, in the likeness of God made [`asah] he him.”
Therefore the unusual juxtaposition of “bara’” and “`asah” in Genesis 2:3 refers to the totality of creation, which God had “created” by “making.”
We really can’t overly refine the meaning of “`asah” to suggest that it means “creation from something,” (as opposed to creation from nothing) because only context determines this special nuance. It can mean either, depending upon the situation.
So, and in other words, that the creation consisted of “creating” and “making” can be seen in Genesis 2:3-4. LISTEN CLOSELY:
“And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created [bara] and made [asah]. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created [bara], in the day that the LORD God made [asah] the earth and the heavens.”
I would suggest that there is something significant between the use of the words “bara” “create” and “asah” made.
The word bara carries the thought of the initiation of the object involved. It always connotes what only God can do and frequently emphasizes the absolute newness of the object created.
But the word asah is much broader in scope, connoting primarily the fashioning of the object with little concern for special nuances.
The use of bara in the opening statement in the account of creation seems to carry the implication that the physical phenomena came into existence at that time and had no previous existence in the form in which they were created by divine fiat.
But the use of “asah” may simply connote the act of fashioning the objects involved in the whole creative process.
Psalm 86:9, using “asah” says:
“All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.”
And Psalm 95:5 “The sea is his, and he made it (asah): and his hands formed the dry land.
So, taking all of this in, we might best understand the creation of man in a two-fold manner.
He was both “made” and “created.” He was made (asah) in that his body came from the dust of the ground (earth). The earth was already created by God, so Adam was made from a substance which was already created.
He might also be said to have been created (bara) in that “God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and He [Adam] became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7).
The life invested into the body was a creation of God – certainly a creation which the angels could not participate in.
Because angels could not actually create man, it might be wondered why God even bothered speaking to them concerning man.
There are a couple of possibilities.
First of all, God might have addressed them because of their very presence at this amazing time.
Secondly, He addressed them to declare His intentions of making man in their image as well as His: a moral, spiritual, intellectual, and emotional image.
Maybe this was instructive and important to them and their work among us as heavenly beings.
After God allowed the angels to participate in the making of man, He (alone) created in him “a living soul” (mind will and emotion) by breathing His creative breath into them and man – at this point – possessed the “image of God” and of the angels created before him.
The angels participation in “the making of man” might be compared to the manner in which believers work miracles.
Jesus said, “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.”
Or maybe the parallel is when Jesus told His apostles to go and “make disciples.”
The apostles were laboring but God is who recreates us all – not the Apostles – even though when Jesus said these things He said them in the imperative as if it was our responsibility to see that it come about.
Let’s talk about the second plural pronoun found in Genesis 3:22
It has a similar grammatical structure to that of Genesis 1:26:
“God (plural) said (third person masculine singular), Behold, the man is become as one of us (first person common plural), to know good and evil.”
Here again we see a “singular verb being used with plural pronouns.”
Thus far we know that those to whom God spoke had an image that was like His.
We can also say that to whomever God said this that they could be considered to be enough like God to the extent that He could say to them or him, “Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.”
It might be argued that angels do not know the difference between good and evil or that at least before the fall of man they didn’t know the difference.
But this idea is based off of the idea that angels are holy androids with no will of their own. If angels could not sin, then Lucifer and the other multitudes of angels that rebelled against God could have never actually done so. God would have had to have made them rebel against Him.
I would suggest that angels knew the difference between good and evil before man ever sinned. This knowledge was just as much a part of their nature as it was God’s. They had no tree from which to choose. They did not have to commit evil to know evil just as God never had to commit evil to know the difference between evil and good.
(unless you are LDS, of course)
In support of the idea that God addressed His angels in this passage, notice that immediately after man’s disobedience and sin God evicted them from the Garden of Eden and stationed cherubims at the east end of the Garden to block its entrance from man.
In other words Angelic activity surrounded God’s new creation. That God was addressing angels in Genesis 3:22 flows with the rest of the context, not being hindered by it whatsoever.
Okay, Genesis 11:7.
The grammar of Genesis 11:7 is even more conclusive that God must have been addressing angels when He spoke using the first person plural pronoun “our” or “us.”
The grammar of this verse is as follows:
“Go to (second person masculine singular), let us go down (first person common plural) and there confound (first person common plural) their language.”
“Go to” is an imperative in the Hebrew language. God was giving a command to the one or ones to whom He was speaking.
If these “our” and “us” passages are referring to God speaking to a manifestation of His Spirit or “the Son” in some way, then we have a case of one divine person commanding another divine person to do something.
One can only be commanded to do a thing because they are “subordinate to” or of an “inferior rank” to the one doing the commanding. If God was speaking to deity, then this deity was less (in some manner) than God.
Remember, GO TO is an imperative command in the Hebrew. Only bosses use GO TO and the presence of a Boss eliminates co-equality – and the important key to this would be inequality prior to the Word becoming flesh!
Of course I think this passage proves God is speaking to created angels and not His word or a subordinate Spirit person.
Apparently God was only speaking to one being because “go to” is in “the second person singular.”
What God was saying was, “You (singular) go to….”
Apparently God was accompanied by only one angel to confound the languages at Babel.
Should it seem strange that the Lord would choose to have angels accompany Him, remember the story of Abraham’s encounter with God (Genesis 18). He was visited by three men: one of which turned out to be a theophany of the Lord, and the other two were angels (10, 13-17; 19:1).
In any case, this is how I would explain this third instance of the plural pronoun associated with our One God.
Isaiah 6:8
The final Scripture in which God used a plural pronoun in connection with Himself is Isaiah 6:8, which, again, has God say:
“Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?”
The grammar of this verse is this:
“Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send (first person common singular), and who will go for us (first person common plural)?”
(LISTEN!) The singular verb cannot have a plural pronoun as its antecedent. Again, God must be addressing someone else in this statement.
Whatever the situation, we know (again) that it was only God who was going to do the sending.
When we look at the context of the rest of chapter six we see that there is a lot of angelic activity (verses 2-3 and verses 6-7) so it is not strange to think that the Lord was addressing angels.
What is strange is the fact that God would ask the angels for a plan of action to take against the rebels at the Tower of Babel.
Does God ask for anyone else’s advice?
Even though God does not need advice, it is evident that He does sometimes seek after it.
In fact there is a detailed account of God corresponding with angels to come up with a plan of action in I Kings 22:19-23.
In verse 19 Micaiah the prophet told Ahab and Jehoshaphat that he “saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.” This is clearly an assembling of the angels.
The purpose for this meeting was to discuss a plan of action to bring about Ahab’s death.
Verse 20 has the Lord pose the question to the angelic host, “Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth Gilead?”
There seems to have been an actual debate indicated by the line, “And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.”
Finally an angel came up with a way to persuade Ahab to which God agreed.
Verse 21 tells us that this plan was he was to be a lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets.
In verse 22 the Lord gave him permission to do this saying,
“Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.”
If the Lord wants the input of His angels before executing His plan, that is His prerogative. All we know is that God does on some occasions, and for whatever reasons, consult with His angels and involve them on His “missions.”
Which to me is even more proof of who God has been speaking to in these four passages.
Although not beyond the realm of possibility, the first three theories we discussed do not carry enough Biblical or grammatical support to be considered valid explanations.
When considering the Hebrew grammar behind these verses, angels seem to be the best candidates for the identity of those included in the “us” and “our” statements made by God.
If this IS the case, we ought to rethink applying them as evidence of three uncreated, co-eternal, co-equal personages that make up the one true God of the Trinity.

Okay, we have a few minutes let’s read through what Peter has to say in the rest of the chapter and finish it up next week.

At verse twelve, after saying, AMEN in verse 11, Peter moves back to a subject that he (or we) have beat to death, saying:

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Okay, back to verse 12. We know better than ever the situation they face – they are in the midst of the end of all things – and so Peter says

“Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

The word for strange here in the Greek (used in two different ways in this verse alone) speaks of aliens or visitors.

The thinking is don’t be surprised (like you would be by an unexpected visitor or alien – unknown person coming into your home – concerning the fiery trial (he adds) “which is to try you,” as though something genuinely foreign to your existence before God has occurred.

The best way to paraphrase what I think he is saying? “Don’t be surprised by the fiery trial you will or are experiencing – don’t view it like you would a foreigner who shows up at your home unexpectedly and unannounced to live in your home.”

How does he tell them to respond? He says

13 But rejoice!

You are living your life and BOOM – you find yourself in the midst of a most fiery trial – health, financial, familial, loss, difficulty, disease, temptation, crisis of faith –

Don’t view these things like you would a strange alien at your doorstep but instead rejoice. Why?

Because it shows the fiery trial proves that you are “a partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.”

This is a topic we have addressed so many times in meat because this is what we ought to expect as meat eaters in the faith – trials.

Why?

That is what our King faced and experienced and the presence of them in our lives ought to be interpreted as our being partaker in the same things of which His life consisted.

So rejoice (especially in the promise coming from Peter)

“that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.”

Of course, with Peter having said that the end of all things is at hand we know He was speaking of what joy these believers would have when He, in glory, would be revealed; that at that time they would, as a result of their endurance through trials, they too would be glad with exceeding joy at that time.

The promise to us (and all those from that time forward is the same) – that at the end of our sojourn, especially as we endure the fiery trials that are heaped upon us – we too, when His glory will be revealed to us, will be glad with exceeding joy.

So just as they walked by faith toward the end of all things, trusting in the promises of joy at the appearing of the King before them, we too do the same in this life.

Okay, comments or questions.