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19 1st John 5.7-15
July 31st 2016
Meat
Okay we left off discussion verse 6 which says:
“This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood.” (and in the King James this line, which makes verse 7 in the revised versions, is said) “And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.”
We then come to what is verse seven (in the KJV) and which is missing from the Revised translations and is known as the Johannine Comma, which says . . .
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
The evidence is pretty clear that this is one (of only a few) passages that have been MAN-ipulated in the course of scriptural history.
Before we move on I’d like to make a couple of points about this verse and the fact that it is in all probability a manipulation by Man.
Where do we get the idea that this book has to be word perfect – from Man as well – and that is also a manipulation. It sets us up with an unrealistic expectation that when proven faulty destroys faith. I want to take Jesus and use Him as an example to support my point.
Jesus was born of a woman, born under the Law and while He was without sin, this does not mean that His physical body was perfect.
He aged. I’m sure he had injuries, and we have to believe that He, like most people of his day, had physical difficulties of some sort – from his hair getting tangled, to tooth decay, to wrinkles forming on his face.
This was his physical presence and it was subject to what all things are materially subject.
He was NOT known by His physicality – this was part of the reason that He was rejected – people did not believe that anything good could come out of Nazareth.
How was Jesus known then and out until today? Spiritually. People who looked for a material Messiah to stand like a King above the rest of the crowd may have missed the spiritual implications of Jesus and to take His material essence and make it the focal point is a MAN-ipulation.
It is normal for us to create super-heroes that exist outside the realities of time, space, gravity and other things in this world that have impact upon them – including other people.
We might ask, if Jesus, as a child, was accidentally marred by a dradle when some dumb kid threw one in a crowd would this make Him any less of the Messiah or the Son of God?
Obviously not. I mean He was wounded for our transgressions and by His stripes we were healed. So we know that actual physical defects were part of His material existence.
But spiritually He could not be touched – neither by men nor by sin. And it was by the Spirit that He was known – again, then and now.
God that?
Jesus ascended with that perfect soul and spirit and marred body. We do not see Him today. But just as the Word made flesh we have today been gifted with the Word made . . . paper.
Spiritually perfect (as it is discerned spiritually) but physically marred. Like Jesus physical body the Word made paper remains sufficient and able to represent to us all that God wants us to know. But men are the ones who have suggested that it is word perfect, that it has been completely protected from defects over the ages. This is not true.
To believe it is true will only create disappointment when (and if) we discover the facts about it – that it has NOT escaped marring.
But this leads me to a second point -the marring of the book is not detrimental to its value – this is yet another faulty idea from men.
I think we can say this because the imperfections that are present are not truly monumental. So where God did allow His only Begotten Son to experience human decay and suffering His Son was able to live His life out until His mission was complete.
So it is with the Word. It’s descrepancies, additions, and difficulties may be like dental decay – but it doesn’t mean we cannot continue to eat and receive all the nourishment our bodies require.
A third point is to answer the question – “why point these fault out at all?” Why not just be a true blue supporter of the cause and play along? The answer? Because we seek God in Spirit and in truth and seek to hear and know the truth – no matter the price or how painful the results.
If we can’t seek the Truth we might as well go home and surrender to the dark.
A fourth point is when men insist that the Bible must be ippisimis verba – word perfectness – the demand they create is a standard that is out of the realm of how God actually works among us – and therefore they create and introduce elements to this beautiful faith that are of this world and not of Him.
When we realize that the Bible is good, that it is legitimate, that it’s faults are minimal but existent, then we are better prepared to resist attacks against it.
Finally and fifth, the substance of what the Johannine Comma present is not all that bad. And while I resent some institutional scribe inserting the words we do find support for the principle in other parts of scripture – just not as on the nose.
In other words, God is called the father, the Word is called the Son, the Holy Spirit is mentioned among them, they are three and they are one.
No problem. There are a number of passages and chapters and books that describe them as such – just not so succinctly. But passages like Galatians 4:6 (which says):
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Help us see the validity of a scriptural Father, a Son and a Spirit – so its not so much that the content of the addition is off, it’s just it was not part of the content to begin with that matters.
Anyway, those are some thoughts about passages like this that we come across in modern-day scripture.
There is one more thing I want to address here and now which I think needs to be talked about.
Within the faith there is the non-biblical discussion that is bantered about ad nauseum that really makes zero sense for us to even say it. And that is, that the Bible is perfect and inerrant in the original manuscripts.
In my estimation this is a comical statement that has very little application to believers or apologetics today.
For starters, we do NOT have access to ANY original mss. So why do we say this? We can’t prove it, and it was never a point that God seems to have wanted us to prove – if it was, we’d have the original mss with us, right?
Secondly, if we can ONLY say that the original mss were uncorrupted what does that say about the mss that have been passed down or have lasted? Are they corrupted? Scholars never say these mss are uncorrupted and since they are the only mss that we have access to today what’s the point?
In any case, this really bugs me when believers repeat this little couplet and I wanted to address it here.
Onto verse 8 –
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Before we cover the contents of verse 8 let’s stop a minute and diagram the contents of verse 7 and 8 together, even though seven is thought to be fabricated.
Verse 7 – spurious
Verse 8 – genuine
GREEK
For there are three
For there are three
that bear record
that bear witness
Same Greek term
In heaven
In earth
Not in original – added
The Father
The spirit
The Word
And the water
The Holy Ghost
And the blood
And these three
And these three
are
agree
one
In one
Note: see the difference in meaning and intent between vs 8 and 7?
Okay, I’m not going to cover verse seven in any depth so let’s go to eight.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
The line, “and there are three that bear witness in earth,” appears to have also been added as a means to round out the spurious passage of seven and so in reality verse eight ought to simply read:
“There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.”
Witnesses of what?
The term translated witness comes from the root Greek word that means martyr, or one who testifies.
Here we have two words that extend from this root – “martureo” (mar-too-reh’-o) and “mar-too-ria” with the former being a verb and the later a noun.
Both mean to a witness, testify (literally or figuratively):–charge, give (evidence), bear record, have (obtain, of) good (honest) report, be well reported of, testify, give (have) testimony, (be, bear, give, obtain).”
So to the question, “the water, blood and Spirit are witnesses of what? let’s answer this by pointing out that in verses 6-11 (omitting 7 and the first part of 8) John uses the terms for witness or record or testify eight times – so he has a point that is truly orbiting around a witness.
So in our PREFACE VERSE John asks:
1st John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
(GO TO THE BOARD)
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness (martureo), because the Spirit is truth.
So here he says that it is the Spirit that beareth witness.
(Lets omit seven and the first line of 8 and then continue)
8 . . . the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Then verse nine mentions it FOUR TIMES in one verse –
9 If we receive “the witness” (marturia) of men, “the witness (marturia) of God is greater:” for this is “the witness” (marturia) of God which he hath testified (martureo) of his Son.
So the witness of God, which is greater than the witness of men (which many of us will accept) this witness of God is a testimony of His Son . . .which looks like this – (verse 10)
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness (marturia) in himself: he that believeth not God hath made God a liar; because he believeth not the record (marturia) that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, (marturia) that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
What witness is John speaking about? To me it seems he is talking about the witness God gives us, that we have been given eternal life, that this life is in His Son, and both our belief on His Son and the knowledge of eternal life within us is the witness John is talking about.
To not believe is to call God a liar because such a person refuses to believe the witness God gave of His Son!
And in line with this I would concur with Paul who says we are all therefore, without excuse.
So jump back with me to verse 8. Omitting the first line what do you think John means, now that we have discussed witnesses, what he means by:
8 . . . the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Some say that in the Christian experience the Spirit within, the testimony at water baptism, and the experience of communion (the blood) is what John is talking about here.
Robertson’s Word Pictures translates the Greek as the Spirit and the Water and the blood “are for the same thing.” Which winds up being a translation I personally like.
Another view is that God has sent all of us three witnesses (in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall all things be established) and because of this, through faith on His shed blood, on Him as the living water (or possibly through the reception of our own water baptism) and the witness of the Holy Spirit we all KNOW we have eternal life.
The line, “and these three agree in one,” better means, “they agree in one thing” which from what I can tell, that fact that Jesus is the Son of God.
All of these witnesses are appointed by God to testify of this fact; and all harmonize in the testimony which is borne.
John does not say that there aren’t any other witnesses to the same thing and he does not even say that these are the most important or decisive that we have (though I tend to believe that they are)but he says that these are important witnesses of spiritual significance.
I support my conclusions of what John is saying about the three by appealing to the following verses:
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
At this point he begins to talk about the confidence believers have as a result of the witness we have within ourselves and says:
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
In a world of so many variables, one so full of gray, I personally love when I come across something that is black and white, something that is set, something irrefutable.
Even adding in the fact that 1st Corinthians 15 clearly tells us that Christ has had the ultimate victory and that God is now all in all I don’t personally believe that Him having the victory adds any gray matter to verse 12 of this fifth chapter of this epistle –
I am of the opinion that anyone who has the Son has life and anyone who does not have the son has not life. Period.
Taking this stance and admitting it into my heart I am also able to see all people as being in two main camps – those who have life (even those who claim to have life because I can’t discern hearts) and those who don’t.
For those who have life I welcome as my family with joy and delight, knowing that they are sharing in His life and light with me and so do by His grace. Standing with them I have tremendous gratitude to even belong and to know He has freed me from the prisons that held me in dark captivity.
But for those who do not yet live I have empathy, compassion, longsuffering and a heart to help them come out of dark and into the light.
It’s as if they are stammering through the dry hot desert dying of thirst and I am standing in the shade behind a table full of filtered ice water – the only trouble is they for innumerable reasons – refuse to drink.
We also note John’s specific words here –
“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”
John appears to be echoing the words of Jesus who said in John 5:24
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
This passage is extracted from some magnificent teachings by the Lord which are central to the faith. Beginning at verse 18 of chapter five we read:
“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear . . . shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
(Pause)
“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”
Additionally, we have to note that John says in the King James
“That He that has the Son HAS life.”
But the better Greek would read, “He who is having the Son has life,” putting the relationship in a place that is conditioned on continuance rather than once and for all.
While discomforting, this reading is much more in harmony with the rest of the Bible than reading it as a once and for all statement. In other words, we do NOT have the Son, we are having Him, allowing Him, receiving Him every day of life and as long as we are having Him we have life.
Those who are not having Him do not have life.
John now lays out why he has written all of these things (at verse 13):
13 These things have I written unto you (the things in this epistle or why I have written this epistle) . . . that you believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
This passage clearly supports my interpretation of the previous verse about the best Greek being that “we are to keep on having the son in order to keep on living.”
Remembering this listen to what John says here in verse 13 again!
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God (READY – this is why I have written to you . . .) “that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”
He has written this epistle to those WHO BELIEVE ON THE SON (got that) so that they can . . .
Know that they have eternal life AND
That they may believe on the name of the Son of God!
I thought he had written to those who believed on the Son – why is he then saying that he writes to them so that “they may believe?”
By inserting one word here we can bring it all together –
13 These things have I written unto you that you believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may CONTINUE TO believe on the name of the Son of God.
Or, in harmony with the verse before, “that you will keep having the Son in your mind, and heart and life.”
He has written that they (and we) “may know that ye have eternal life,” and in all the previous verses from last week (and a number of weeks before) he has explained how this knowledge is obtained.
He wanted his audience of believers to KNOW that they have eternal life and just as importantly, we wanted them to persevere in this life that is had only by continuing to have belief on the Son.
John does not seem to wonder at all if the recipients of his epistle were believers – he admits that they are.
But he was just as adamant in his writings for them to know that they have eternal life and to “continue having Jesus.”
People have asked me why we continue to do CAMPUS if all things are done (in terms of the biblical narrative and God has had the victory through Christ)?
“If brick and mortars have no real authority or power why continue to meet and teach?”
For the same reason John wrote this epistle! Let me put it this way – if I was a full preterist AND a five point Calvinist I wouldn’t do CAMPUS.
Why?
Because God is all in all.
He has elected those who are his.
Those who are elected cannot fall no matter what.
So to me the entire deal would be sealed, especially in light of how I see the Bible and its contents being secondary and referential to the faith.
However, I am not a Five Point Calvinist, and I do believe that even today, one of the single most important things people who consider themselves pastors are supposed to do is to feed the flock – with what? The Word of God!
Not programs. Not bind them with rules and obligations or demands – but to feed them the Word of God.
Why?
So they will continue to HAVE CHRIST so they will continue to LIVE.
I am personally convinced that whoever has received and believed Christ MUST continue to be fed the word or they, like the very cream of the crop Saints in the days of John, could – could stop “having Christ.”
I’ve seen it first hand on several occasions – and nobody can tell me that those who have detached from the vine or have fallen on rocky or thorny soil are there because they never really knew Him in the first place.
To appeal to my analogy of the unbelievers out in a desert dying of thirst but refusing filtered ice water of Christ right before their eyes (which is the reason we have missional efforts) we have a similar parallel in the picture of people who have had Christ but are no longer fed – these are like the masses starving to death in a banquet hall full of food because there is no one willing to serve them.
John has PROVEN that those who believe on the Son can stop having Him. This places a tremendous heavy obligation upon the backs of those who consider themselves shepherds in the flock.
And under the weight of this burden is the absolute reality that the only thing that will nourish and strengthen and prepare the flock is them being fed the Word.
The human heart – even when converted – is prone to disbelief – and our religious affections so easily become cold in the face of this world.
We all need to be reminded that we are to keep having Him to keep having life, and not be falsely reassured that we have Him (and life eternal) and there is no reason to continue to eat.
At this point John addresses the topic of prayer, and adds:
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
And this is the confidence that we have in him.
First he spoke of our having him, then of knowing that we have him, and then our continuing to have Him and now he speaks to our confidence in Him, or what it looks like (with regard to prayer) to be confident in our stance with Him.
John does not say that this is the only thing in respect to which there is to be confidence in him, but he does seem to think that this one is worthy of consideration.
So the general sense seems to be that one of the effects of believing on the Lord Jesus is that we have the assurance that our prayers will be answered. So much so that John says:
“That, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us.”
I am so grateful, personally, for this passage – especially in the face of “name it and claim it” (or the “blab it and grab it”) fads out there today in the faith.
Here John has plainly laid the outcome of all prayer on it being according to His will – and not our own.
The thinking seems to be, “Listen, you love others and you believe that Jesus is the Son of God. There is life in you – His life. This is present by virtue of the Spirit which is His Spirit. Being led by Him and His spirit you will with confidence ask in prayer because being led of Him you will ask only that which is in accordance with His will – and with that being the case, have confidence that your petitions will be heard.
This is the proper, biblical limitation on prayer. I know what Christ said about faith and moving mountains but all of it MUST be couched in the Words of John which have been mercifully given us to balance out the topic.
When we think about it all prayer ought to be couched in the ultimate will of God being done over all of our desires and wishes as this approach shows we trust Him and His ways over our own.
Not always easy. With this thinking in mind by the way he set up verse 14 John now says (at verse 15)
15 And if we know that he hear us (have the confidence that He will hear us), whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
Again, all predicated on our walking in the Spirit and praying thereby.
And with that, let’s wrap it up for today.
Q and A
