God, Part 6

The Holy Spirit and the Ministry

“The greatest friend of truth is time, her greatest enemy is prejudice, and her constant companion humility.” – Chuck Colson

“There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.” – Goethe

“Truth never penetrates an unwilling mind.” – J. L. Borges

Show 17 391 God – part VI
The Holy Spirit
April 22nd 2014

“Live from the Mecca of Mormonism – Salt Lake City Utah – This is Heart of the Matter – Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity . . . Face to Face”

And I’m your host Shawn McCraney

We thank and praise the true and living God for allowing us to be part of this, His ministry. May He be with you – and us – tonight.

Ministry Goals and Offerings

We have tried and continue to try to do all we can to serve and reach people of the Truth – people who want to worship God in Spirit and Truth. Ours is not a perfect, infallible ministry – how could it be with me involved in it – but our intentions are for Him and to do all we can to create and present products and programs that can be used now (and in the years to come) for the King.

For your consideration, we’ve constructed four websites: www.bornagainmormon.com, www.c-a-m-p-u-s.com, www.hotm.tv, and www.hotmnetwork.com. We’ve written three books: “I Was a Born-Again Mormon,” “If my Kingdom…,” and “Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity Face to Face.”

We hold two verse by verse church services every week which are open to all who live here in Salt Lake City and for those who don’t they can now watch through streaming video at 10 and 2:30. We’ve taken fifty-four passages of scripture, put them to music, and compiled them onto four CDs for your listening enjoyment and verse memorization.

We launched a “24 hour, seven days a week” television station which airs verse by verse teachings of the Bible and local pastors presenting the Word! In addition to all of this, we are currently working to get the network on cable and dish around the nation and world and are working to put together a quarterly magazine that will speak to all the baloney in religion today – and offer reasonable, logical biblical responses to the same.

All of this has been possible because of God our King and your being moved to pray for us, share the ministry with others, and financially support us if you are led and in the position. We are NOT empire building. We struggle to make ends meet every month but we trust in the living God and in the bromide that where God guides God provides. And we’re not dead . . . yet. We hope you will consider this information as you reflect on helping this ministry do what it does.

Social Media and Personal Views

In a somewhat related but paradoxical vein, I want to announce that I have taken measures to shut down the Heart of the Matter Disgracebook page. We thank those who have been involved in it in a healthy way and who have contributed sound information out to the world through that medium – I am told that most of you are great souls… and I believe it. But you are also aware that I am personally not a fan of social media. Yes, I am well aware that nearly every corporation and church in America has a page. I am also aware of the tool it has become for such at keeping them in the forefront of the public eye.

As a result, I am also very aware that maintaining a presence on Disgracebook (and promoting and pushing to get more friends, etc.) would really go a long way in keeping the ministry financially healthy. But… well let me put it to you this way. Years ago I had a rather influential man (who was very successful in an international MLM) tell me how rich I could get in becoming part of his MLM down-line. After a sizeable amount of fairly relentless pressure I had to set him straight – and I finally said: “I’m not sure you are really understanding me – I would rather lay in a gutter dying of starvation than to ever be part of an MLM.” I could not feel more similar about having

Ministry and Faith

This ministry is part of Disgracebook and other social media platforms like Twitter, spam emailings, Instagram, and the like. Ministry and church (at least this ministry and church) is NOT a business. It is in the hands of the King, and if it is to survive, it is up to Him—not me or Disgracebook—to keep it alive. I take this approach VERY seriously and for reasons that will go unstated. But in the end, we want to act in faith and let God do the growing and promoting of our labors, not us. Let those who have ears to hear hear.

Last week I was handed what may be the single most comical thing I have ever seen here in Utah relative to the Mormon Magic Kingdom. It’s an advertisement for a two-day conference. The name of the Conference?

And with that, how about a moment from the Word?

Widows in the Church

Last week we showed you a clip from one of our C-A-M-P-U-S Gatherings where I went through 1st Timothy and pulled out verses where I asked you all if I should take them literally. I did this because people frequently use the content of 1st Timothy 3 to PROVE to me that God certainly established the presence of diakonios and episkopas in His church, which must be used today. I maintain that while such things were used in the early church (and could be used today in the modern day church), it all depends on need, the situation, and the working of God’s Holy Spirit.

Well, we covered a few difficult passages last week in our coverage. Let me end it this week with a few more from just the four pages that make up 1st Timothy. At chapter five (verse three), Paul begins by instructing Timothy on how to deal with widows. Now listen, many believers were losing their lives over the faith, and so there was some unfortunate widow-making going on around them.

Qualifications for Widows

At verse nine, Paul writes to Timothy: 1st Timothy 5:9, "Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man.” What does this mean, “Let not a widow be taken into the number?” It seems that he is speaking of widows being taken in by the church and being cared for by them. Here Paul plainly tells Timothy that he is not to take any widow into such care unless they meet eight clear qualifications which include: (ready)

1. If they are under three score (or sixty years of age)
2. If they have been the wife of one man

(then at verse 10 – “If she”) is

3. “Well reported of for good works;
4. if she has brought up children,
5. if she has lodged strangers,
6. if she has washed the saints' feet,
7. if she has relieved the afflicted,
8. if she has diligently followed every good work."

So there we have it. First of all, does your church implement this order when deciding to help widows or not? If not, why not? Gotta be at least sixty! Can only have been married to one man! Must be “well reported of for good works!” have brought up children, lodged strangers, washed the saints' feet, relieved the afflicted, and diligently followed every good work! Then she can be numbered with the other widows!

In our day?! Now?! To be in harmony with scripture! No? Yes? If you say, “NOT APPLICABLE,” how do you justify it? Ironically, if you say this is the law of God for the church today, how do you justify that? But Paul doesn’t stop there. He says to Timothy in verse 11-12, “But the younger widows” (anyone under three score years of age—remember, this age has been established in scripture by Paul) refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry. Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.”

Now we have a choice—take this in the context it has been given—and reasonably try to understand it in this day and age—or demand! DEMAND! That all he has said be followed as it is written. You decide. Is it possible that there were young widows at that time that Paul was warning Timothy were doing these things? Sure. Can these things apply to our day? Certainly. But the point is, we must live and walk by the Spirit and use these lessons and warnings in scripture as guides and insights NOT

Understanding New Testament Law

In Verse 23 we have a line that in our day is really easy to dismiss – especially when we remember that this epistle was written especially to Timothy. In the face of it we must ask ourselves – who gets to decide – how do we decide what it New Testament Law and what is NOT? Do men decide this for us? Scholars? Does tradition? The particular sect we join – does it tell us what to receive as true doctrine and practice? What does verse 23 say:

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.” Now we smile . . . we chuckle . . . we knowingly nod at the obviousness of this line, don’t we? “Hahahahah, that is obviously NOT for us.” But let me read to you the verse before verse 22 and then 23 again. Ready?

1st Timothy 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure. 23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

I read it this way so we can see that the whole epistle was written first to Timothy personally, in his time and day, and in regard to his specific work in the church AT THAT TIME – and we have had it all wrong in trying to make such things “fit” the church in this day and age.

Don’t get me wrong. I trust in the Word Old and New and accept it as the word of God but for a specific time and purpose when it was written, and then for a specific time and purpose later. My aim here is it get people to truly rest in Him and to really walk by the law He has written on believers hearts and NOT on either Law that comes from the Old Testament NOR making the New Testament writings LAW in our day and age.

The Holy Spirit in the Trinity

Well, I got myself in hot water over the term Trinity a few months back. I still reject the term – even moreso now than I did then. And tonight it’s gonna get hotter as we continue to talk about perhaps the most quizzical member of the Trinity so-called – the Holy Spirit. It is my assertion that the teaching that “the Holy Spirit” is a separate “person” from God, the Father, is an incorrect understanding from both the LDS and the Evangelical side and that such a teaching is both illogical, unbiblical, and may lead to a failure of worshipping God in spirit and truth. Let begin to explain tonight and finish up next week.

Understanding God's Spirit

First of all, and as mentioned three or four weeks ago, for the Holy Spirit to be a person that is not a begotten Son from the foundations of the world but is neither the Father (nor a product or progeny of the Father) the person of the Holy Spirit, a separate and distinct third person of the Godhead makes no sense to me – I don’t know any other way to say it so I am saying it as I see it. But I can understand one God, who sends Himself in spirit form to reach and teach of His Son, His Word made flesh.

Now, there have been a lot of books written years ago that question the place of the Holy Spirit in the doctrine of the Trinity – so what I am saying is nothing new. In fact I am going to use some of the arguments from some of those books to get you to consider the doctrine of the Trinity as viable or not.

Considerations on the Spirit

Here are some things to consider: 1. God is omnipresent by His “spirit,” which is not a separate “person.” It is His Spirit – the Spirit of God. 2. Although the Hebrew word for “spirit” (ruach), can refer to angels or evil spirits, which are persons or entities with a personality, the Hebrew usage of “the spirit of God” never refers to a person separate from, but a part of, God Almighty.

Understanding the Concept of the Holy Spirit

The phrase, “the spirits of God” never occurs because it would refer to separate spiritual entities within a multipersonal God. There is only the Spirit of God. As with the Hebrew word, ruach, the Greek word for spirit (pneuma) also has many different meanings, the correct one also being determinable only from the context of each occurrence. Although Greek has both upper and lower case letters, the early manuscripts employed either one or the other. Therefore, no accurate distinction can be made in the original manuscripts of the Bible between upper case “Holy Spirit,” a proper noun referring to God, and lower case “holy spirit,” referring to an impersonal force. Compounding the problem is the fact that the article “the” was often added by translators, leading the reader to think that “the Holy Spirit” is referring to a separate person, a third person of “the Holy Trinity” as taught by traditional Christian orthodoxy.

The Holy Spirit in the Old and New Testaments

Like my issue with eternal Sonship existing in the OT most scholars admit that the concept of the Trinity cannot be substantiated in the Old Testament. In particular, “the Holy Spirit” as any kind of independent or distinct entity has no place in Old Testament revelation. With the exception of a few comparatively difficult verses in the Gospel of John, the New Testament also gives no certain and incontrovertible indication of a “Holy Spirit” as a personal being co-equal with the Father and the Son. I would strongly suggest that it therefore makes sense to understand “holy spirit” in the New Testament just as it was understood in the Old Testament, either as “God Himself” or His presence and power.

Translating "Spirit" and Gender Considerations

The Greek word for “spirit,” pneuma, is neuter, as are all pronouns referring to the spirit, making them necessarily impersonal. New Testament translators knew this grammatically, but groundlessly translated references to the coming “spirit of truth” as “He” instead of “it” because of their Trinitarian prejudice. An example of this is John 14:17 which says:

John 14:17 “Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth (him) not, neither knoweth (him): but ye know (him); for (he) dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”

If they had just consistently translated the neuter pronouns of John 14 through 16 as “it,” “its,” “itself” and “which” instead of “he,” “his,” “him,” “who,” and “whom,” the case for the “personality of the Holy Spirit” would largely disappear from Christian belief.

Personification in Scripture

Then let’s talk about how in John 14 Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as “the Comforter and that the comforter is a He.” Any translation from one language to another must recognize the relative unimportance of gender. For the most part, languages that assign a gender to nouns do so in a rather arbitrary manner. For instance, the Spanish word for car is masculine, el carro, while a bicycle is feminine, la bicicleta. Yet no one would translate into English “the car, he…” or “the bicycle, she…” Either word would require the neuter “it” to reflect the impersonal nature of the object. A writer or a poet might employ such a figurative expression in the use of pronouns, but any reader acquainted with the objects referred to would recognize the figure of speech employed. This is what happened in the poetic personification is employed in reference to “the Comforter,” as a “He.” Also speech personification is common in Scripture, and is defined as attributing personal qualities, feelings, actions, etc., to things that have no real personality or personal consciousness. For example “wisdom” is personified as such in Proverbs 8 and 9, yet no sensible person would seriously consider that a literal person named “Wisdom” helped God create the world, as Proverbs 8:30 says. The spirit of God is personified as “the Comforter” in John 14:16 and 26, 15:26, 16:7. Therefore, personal pronouns are appropriate to agree with the personal nature of the figurative title. It is clear from John 16:13 that this Comforter is “sent,” “does not speak of himself” and is instructed (“whatever he hears he speaks”). Also, the “Comforter,” more properly translated as “Counselor,” is said by Jesus to fill the void created by his going to the Father (John 14:12). We also know that by this spirit Jesus would still be present: “I will come to you” (He says in

The Role of the Holy Spirit

This spirit his work with them would continue: “It will teach you”(14:26); “It will remind you of everything I have said” (14:26); “It will testify about me” (15:26); “It will convict the world of guilt” (in preparation for his judgment—16:8); “It will guide you into all truth” (16:13); “It will bring glory to me by taking what is mine and making it known to you” (16:14). NOT HE – it. All of these statements point to the role of the gift of holy spirit in continuing the work that Jesus started, and even empowering his followers for greater works. This spirit is not independent and self-existent, but is “the mind of Christ” within the believer, influencing, guiding, teaching, reminding and pointing the believer to follow his Lord and Savior. This spirit is certainly not “co-equal” when by its very design it serves the risen Lord and Christ. But the use of Personification is appropriate because it carries the personal presence of Christ into the life of every believer.

The Holy Spirit’s Guidance

Practically speaking, the holy spirit in us will not lead us anywhere that the Lord himself would not lead us if he were personally present. We’ll stop here and open up the phone lines, continuing on next week with more things to consider about the Holy Spirit being a Person in the Trinitarian God or the power and presence of God leading and bringing all to Christ.

Viewer Questions and Feedback

Hi Shawn My name is Bonnie and I have left the Mormon church four years ago. In fact, you called me one night when I was having a meltdown. You might even remember me. I have meet you a couple of times. I appreciated that so much. You would think after all this time, I could just let some things go, but I can't. I am reading a book called Overcoming Spiritual Blindness by James P. Gills. It is helping me a lot. In fact, I read so much I drive myself crazy. I do not want to be fooled again, into believing something that is not true. Being lied to about "spiritual" issues, to me is like the ultimate form of deception…At first I was so drawn to the Bible and was thinking that Jesus alone was just what I needed. I really love that idea of no religion, but just faith in Jesus alone. My question to you is this…. The bible is a little hard for me to believe in. All the killings, and stories like Noah and the arc, and one verse is driving me crazy. Because it states in Matthew 24:34 that This generation shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled. Not all were fulfilled! This seems to me this is one of those versed that I get stuck on…. I do not want a" Mormon-icious" explanation or spin. Like your last video on 2013 I just want the bloody truth!!! What are your thoughts on this verse? Thanks Bonnie Garrett

From: Bill Subject: Anti-Mormon Message Body: You are a lying, mocking, anti-Christ. You only mock others, you don't follow Jesus Christ.

Dear Shawn, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for all the work and devotion you have put into helping my wife and I as LDS members see the truth! We have been watching via the internet over in England for the last few months; and have benefited greatly from your devoutly inspired and artistic approach, which has helped us to now formally leave the LDS Church. I personally was born into the Church some 46 years ago and my wife was a convert when we married 27 years ago. The family goes back three generations, and I once even worked for the Church Office in the UK within the IT department. So reaching past the conditioning and established comfort settings took some doing. We still have one son out serving a mission, plus one serving on the Bishopric – but our eyes have been opened and many thanks to you, the Tanners and your ministry. There will be difficult family times ahead, but we have always tried to serve God first, and will continue to do so. We have struggled somewhat with trying to redefine to whom we are praying and the biblical nature of God. As such, we have purchased several books, including having you’re ‘Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity Face to Face’ shipped over from Amazon.com USA to England for us. It has helped immensely – and we are currently pursuing trying to track down the truth of Christ’s teachings and his original Church. I must admit to almost staying LDS after the rumpus over the ‘Trinity’ and the ‘Inquisition 2014’.

Understanding the Trinity

Thank you for all the work and devotion you have put into helping my wife and me as LDS members see the truth! We have been watching via the internet over in England for the last few months and have benefited greatly from your devoutly inspired and artistic approach, which has helped us to now formally leave the LDS Church. I personally was born into the Church some 46 years ago and my wife was a convert when we married 27 years ago. The family goes back three generations, and I once even worked for the Church Office in the UK within the IT department. Reaching past the conditioning and established comfort settings took some doing. We still have one son out serving a mission, plus one serving on the Bishopric – but our eyes have been opened and many thanks to you, the Tanners, and your ministry. There will be difficult family times ahead, but we have always tried to serve God first and will continue to do so.

Seeking Biblical Truths

After nearly 50 years of being lied to, I really wish to get back to the Biblical truths. It is a shame some Christians like us Mormons become so infatuated and conditioned with religion as to not being prepared to look outside of the box; to see if some errors have occurred or truths might be missing. I applaud your ministry for doing so! I have just finished a book called ‘Biblical Church: A Challenge to Unscriptural Traditions and Practise’ by Beresford Job. It has certainly opened my eyes as to the ‘Early Church Forefathers’ and how things have evolved somewhat. By the way, so has your show recently!

Well, thanks once again for being there to help rescue us from decades of deceit and lies. Please continue to seek the truth, we will – and hopefully, we will get to share some of this journey with you and your ministry. The one quote I like from the aforementioned book is: “To discover from scripture that you are wrong about something is not hypocrisy…To realise that something you are doing is wrong and then to do nothing about it is hypocrisy” (Biblical Church, p102), something Israel was chastised for. I think now enlightened it is now time to act on the new information and embark on following the word of God and a new life.

Challenges with the Trinity Concept

We have struggled somewhat with trying to redefine to whom we are praying and the biblical nature of God. As such, we have purchased several books, including having your ‘Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity Face to Face’ shipped over from Amazon.com USA to England for us. It has helped immensely – and we are currently pursuing trying to track down the truth of Christ’s teachings and his original Church.

I must admit to almost staying LDS after the rumpus over the ‘Trinity’ and the ‘Inquisition 2014’. I simply could not get over the contempt and bitterness that was being poured out by so-called Christians in such an unrighteous and unloving way that demeaned and defiled Christianity. They seemed to have no grasp of how vile they were making Christianity and their own faiths look to those seeking the truth. Luckily you rose over their attacks – and went on to give in Episode 386 ‘It All Starts with "X"’ the only definition I could even get my head around relating to the Trinity! It was really great work as we were really struggling with the ‘Trinity’ concept, and thank you for covering this and God in so much detail in your shows – and for trying to get to the truths. I too hate the construct term Trinity! My wife is currently reading ‘God Is One and Christ Is All’ by Tom Raddatz which is delving into the origins and possible falsehood of the Trinity, but the research is ongoing and we will evaluate evidence both for and against to try and get to the truth in due course.

Best Regards,

Mike & Jan Lake
England

Exploration of Biblical Truths

I too hate the construct term Trinity! My wife is currently reading ‘God Is One and Christ Is All’ by Tom Raddatz which is delving into the origins and possible falsehood of the Trinity, but the research is ongoing and we will evaluate evidence both for and against to try and get to the truth in due course. After nearly 50 years of being lied too, I really wish to get back to the Biblical truths. It is a shame some Christians like us Mormons become so infatuated and conditioned with religion as to not being prepared to look outside of the box; to see if some errors have occurred or truths might be missing. I applaud your ministry for doing so! I have just finished a book called ‘Biblical Church: A Challenge to Unscriptural Traditions and Practise’ by Beresford Job. It has certainly opened my eyes as to the ‘Early Church Forefathers’ and how things have evolved somewhat. By the way, so has your show recently!

Seeking Truth and Understanding

Well, thanks once again for being there to help rescue us from decades of deceit and lies. Please continue to seek for the truth, we will – and hopefully we will get to share some of this journey with you and your ministry. The one quote I like from the aforementioned book is: “To discover from scripture that you are wrong about something is not hypocrisy…To realise that something you are doing is wrong and then to do nothing about it is hypocrisy” (Biblical Church, p102), Something Israel was chastised for.

Acting on New Knowledge

I think now enlightened it is now time to act on the new information and embark on following the word of God and a new life.

Best Regards,

Mike & Jan Lake

England