Follow Up to Brother Matt Slick

Understanding Idolatry in the Bible

Live from Salt Lake City, Utah, this is Heart of the Matter where we do all we can to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. I’m Shawn McCraney, your host.

Appreciation for Ministry Support

I want to give a special thanks to all involved in the Ministry – Volunteers and staff who work so very hard to keep things afloat. Viewers who watch and pray and give us the benefit of the doubt when doubt can admittedly get pretty high. Those who choose to help us out financially. We have regrouped under a much clearer view of things and the ministry is growing around the world. The growth is slow but deeply rooted as people are looking for a better way to relate to God and Christ than what has been done in the past through institutional religion. Cassidy took just a few – all of these are real – of the emails we get and put this spot together for us. Take a look – We thank you all equally and from the heart. And thank the true and living God for allowing us to be a part of His ministry.

With that how about a moment from the Word?

Insights from the Word of God

Last week we sat down with Matt Slick of CARM and had a good discussion about the Word of God. The next morning I opened the Bible and started reading in random places – something I do as a warm-up to my studies. I first came upon Deuteronomy 13 and read some passages that are not only pertinent to Mormonism but are really key to understanding the heart of God. It says:

1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

In addition to the obvious topic of false prophets, I couldn’t help but notice the emphasis on idolatry here – in people running after other Gods – and the heinous nature of idolatry in the Bible. When it comes to the sins of people I have long maintained that at the top (when it comes to God) is idolatry. Interestingly enough almost all (if not all sins) ultimately include the sin of idolatry. It’s no wonder that the first of the ten commandments is “There is One God thou shalt have no other God’s before me.”

As I moved on in my study that morning I came to 1st Corinthians, where I happen to be reading this past month. I continued and read at 1st Corinthians 8:4:

4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

The Emphasis on One God

I took notice especially of verse 6 – 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) Lots of idols out there, lots of things and beings to put before our God . . . 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;

One God and His Word

and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. We have and there has always been ONE God – the Father. One God – no other. And He has given us His Son – our Lord and Savior and King. Father God and Lord Jesus.

And I realized something – especially in light of last week’s topic with Matt Slick – one of the main reasons we read and study the Word – one of the main reasons God has gifted us with His word – is that considering its contents keep us from the constant threat of idolatry. Of worshipping other gods. Of breaking that first commandment of there being one God and our having no other.

So in addition to reading it and learning more and more about who He and His Son are (which is life eternal) we also receive instruction, and reproof and correction regarding the worlds idols that seek to take the throne in our lives – Fame, Self, Sex, Drink, Worldly wisdom, Philosophies of Man, Money, Physical appearance, Dark forces and sources, And whatever else is in the world that tries to gain our attention, even our worship.

The Role of Time and Circumstance

Here on earth and in almost every area of life we have a couple factors that play into almost everything we do – Time and circumstance. Before going to work our dad tells us to mow the lawn. We don’t do it. The next morning he says, “Johnny, I want the lawn mowed before I get home.” We reply, “what’s the big deal, dad? Can’t I do it next week?” And he says, “no. We are having people over tomorrow night and it’s supposed to rain tomorrow morning so I want you to do it before I get home tonight.”

Time (“before I get home”) and Circumstance (“we’re having guests and its going to rain”). In our jobs, our relationships, our education – time and circumstance all continually FORM and create the directives we receive. “What (time) will you pick me up and how should I dress (circumstance)?” Then follows the directive. The directive: “I want the plan on my desk by . . . tomorrow morning (time) because they’re coming by at noon to get them” (circumstance). My point is to show that most directives – written or spoken in this world – are based on time and circumstances – when they are given.

Biblical Context

So now we come to the word of God. The Old Testament directives were for the most part written to a Nation waiting on the Messiah. The directions were appropriate to the time and circumstances. The Gospels reflect the time of the actual presence of the Messiah and the fulfillment of the Old Testament directives. The Book of Acts reflects a time and circumstance when the former Covenant was beginning to wain and the New Covenant was beginning to flourish.

But from Acts to the End of the New Testament (actually even through the Gospels) there was a time and circumstance surrounding all the epistolary directions. The time was a period before judgment was going to fall on Jerusalem. The circumstances were people were either going to perish (as in Gehenna) or they were going to be saved (as Jesus promised they would).

All through the New Testament (but especially through the epistles) the apostles are writing to believers in specific areas and telling them to watch, to be ready, and to then know that the end was coming, the time was at hand, that He was coming quickly. These factors of time and circumstance dictated WHAT instructions were given!

For example, in 1st Corinthians 7 Paul delivers a lot of instructions about marriage. And he says at verse 1Co 7:27 “Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.” We read this today outside of the time and circumstance and wonder – is this still applicable? Is this what God wants or was this Paul’s insight for the moment and time involved. He goes on, and at verse 28 says 28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you. 29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: and this remains that both they that have wives be as though they had none; 30 And they that weep, as though they wept

Understanding Paul's Instructions

not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; 31 And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away. Reading this Paul certainly believed that the whole way of that world was about to pass away. And his instructions or directives were catered to that time and that circumstance. If he thought that the whole physical world that was about to shortly pass away he would have obviously been wrong. But Paul wasn’t wrong and so he couldn’t have believed the whole world was going to pass but just the Judaic world. Therefore his instructions WERE to them at that time! In this light that we read his instructions here in this epistle. Are they to be literally taken and applied to us today? This is up to the individual and how they are lead of the spirit. If a person believes that they ought to remain unmarried there is permission here for them to so do. If they wish to marry there is biblical permission to set forth on this goal. But we must never forget the setting (circumstance) and time parameters that were in place and at work when this letter (and all the other letters of the Bible) were penned. May the SPIRIT lead and guide.

Addressing Recent Events

And so to last week – I think it’s important to make some observations. But before doing so I want to apologize publicly as the event went south in the last ten minutes. I am responsible for this and taking responsibility I apologize. Two days after brother Matt’s visit I sat down with earphones and two sources of the event and not only transcribed the last ten minutes I noted the person speaking, the statements made, and the tone in which the statements were made. I also noted face and hand gestures in combination of what was said and complied it all together. Matt was our guest, and I was the host, and I should have taken control of the event before it went south. Instead of doing this I contributed to the situations decline by siding with my daughter who had presented Matt with some questions. The problem was not in her questions or tone. I listened to them. They were rational and even handed all the way to the very end. The problem was not Matt seeking to establish his points relative to the questions asked.

Acknowledging Responsibility

The problem was • I had taught my daughter her position of scriptural contradictions and when she was told there are none I felt the need to defend her instead of reeling both of them in and keeping the tone respectful. Matt is sorry for the way things went down. Cassidy is sorry for the way it went but I am responsible and am also sorry. So I apologize to all involved. Another thing – some people do not like these debates or gatherings. They make them very uncomfortable. Here’s the thing – it is one thing to teach a view or perspective, it is another thing to have it challenged by opposing sides or views from within the faith. Some believe that this is unnecessary while others being it is essential. I happen to think that it is valuable if approached correctly but it takes time and experience to work through the bugs.

Reflecting on the Debate

Thus far I am of the opinion that the subjective view has been fully challenged by representatives of orthodoxy – Jason Wallace and Matt Slick. I tend to agree with this. A brother asked me if I was engaging with Matt to change him. Not in the least. It was to show that under the scrutiny of examination the Subject view is as viable as the Orthodox. Whether you agree with the outcome or not, I am of the opinion that the Subjective faith did stand up to orthodox inquiry – and therefore has a chance of some longevity. So onward. Now, we are very grateful that Matt and his team were willing to participate with us in a discussion about “the purpose and place of the Bible in the Christian life.” I believe – honestly and respectfully – I am convinced – that in some ways, my brother Matt represents an old and dying element of the Christian faith. Instead of orthodoxy I will refer to it as the Old Guard. I can’t help but see his often literal, black and white, didactic, “this is the truth and

The Shift in Religious Approaches

You’d better accept it or you will burn in hell forever” as once having a place and purpose in historic Christianity (due to time and circumstance and due to the fact that God himself allowed it to thrive) but I can’t help but believe it is an approach that is on its last leg. This in no way means Jesus is on his last leg nor do I mean to say that absolute truth will cease to be the goal OF ALL BELIEVERS. But I believe that the old fashioned dogmatic approach to religion is on its last leg relative to a “non-Aldous Huxley Brave New World.” And it’s incumbent on believers – believers – to help usher in the better way while respectfully allowing the Old Guard to present their views.

It’s not that Matt’s approach is not good. It has certainly had its time and place. And it remains acceptable in a number of forums – especially forums where people need absolutism as a means to cope with this uncertain world. This approach was effective at a time and place before any real science, before social media, and before there was a world-wide improvement and increase in critical thinking. In my estimation unfounded and illogical religious rhetoric (tinged with fear-based urgencies) are just not going to cut it anymore with this human crowd. People just don’t care enough anymore to let the threats of abandonment by God to move them.

The Decline of Traditional Church Models

Simultaneously, I am also convinced that the business model church, the hate-speech church, and the snake handling approaches to the faith are also on their last leg. Don’t get me wrong – the pure truth of the Good News isn’t going anywhere. It will last and thrive so long as there is one soul on earth willing to seek God over self. I agree with the promise made in Isaiah 9:6-7 which says:

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

A Call for Change

Simultaneously, the strategies, systems, approaches and cultures of old are more and more being seen in their true light – as a “fear-mongering, hate-speaking, religiously psychotic promulgation of religious myth used to fuel the old giant forward . . . in ever stumbling steps.” I propose we let the giant fall – and with it all the archaic approaches that today do nothing more than produce indifference in the hearts of people who are worried more about keeping their kids off drugs than hells of endless punishment and a God who is indifferent to most of His creation.

Contrary to some public opinion I’m not suggesting anything more than approaching and applying and appealing to the Bible in a more (to use a phrase from the environmentalists) sustainable manner. This might include take applying modern miracles that were present in the apostolic church (which I absolutely support as viable in that day) and see such attempts in the same light of trying to treat stage four leukemia through leeching, remembering all the while that “leeching” did at one time actually provide some relief to a suffering populace who endured it, but today does nothing compared to the advances of modern science.

It’s NOT, NOT NOT that I am saying that the principles or laws of God have changed – they remain the same and always will – He is our loving creator, the human race fell into sinful ways, He provided us a Savior who had the victory over the world and sin and death, we receive Him and life eternal by faith – these wonderful facts will always be. But we cannot continue to preach the untenable elements of scripture (that had application to that time and those circumstances) and try and apply them to people living here and now. This culture will explore other ideas. It has and will challenge the ways things have always been done. These are natural desires that exist in every societal period of time and I can’t help but believe that God is their author. So in the place of dogma, we now have fearless deliberation and exploration.

Embracing a Subjective Approach to Faith

In the place of blind obedience to mom and dad’s religion (and their pastor who married them), we have the convenience of meandering through Elysian fields through our phones, of openly challenging long-held traditions, and of pushing every tenet of the faith into a place where it has to prove its right to remain. I mean, we have right at our fingertips tools that actually measure, weigh, calculate, and compute whether a worldwide flood or a boat can actually hold all the animal species, or what would need to happen in a 184-hour period of creation of both the heavens and the earth.

We have advances in linguistics and manuscript evidences that break down long-established traditions, but more than anything else, I would suggest that the biggest change that we need to embrace is the idea or demand that all people must accept any or all of the “demanded dogmatics of the past.” I personally suggest that when it comes to principles of faith, all things must be subjective. But this does NOT mean we have any right whatsoever to malign or reject dogmatists! They have had their place in the Kingdom and will continue to. But more than just their utility, it’s their right, before God, to seek and preach Him dogmatically. Yes, it is even their right to demand to be heard. But unbeknownst to many of them, fewer and fewer are listening, and it's not because they possess the truth and are being rejected for it. It’s because their methods of presenting the truth have faded in effectiveness.

Addressing Claims of Division

One of the reasons I embrace and promote a wholly subjective approach to the faith is that I believe that it is pretty seamless and impenetrable to this claim – that it too causes division. I consider it pretty seamless and unassailable because I do not see how an approach to the faith that allows all views to exist (so long as Christ, in some semblance or fashion, is seen as Lord and Savior) can cause division. The answer is division occurs when others (who refuse the views and opinions of other believers) insist on dividing with them!

That being acknowledged, we can see that this view is incapable of causing division, but it continues to be those who refuse it that cause the division – which is the exact place the Body has found itself for the past 1900 plus years! In other words, division ONLY occurs when other believers decide that they are the judge and jury of other people’s views and decide that they cannot break bread with those who see the world of this beautiful faith differently from themselves. But we have to admit, it’s not the subjective approach that is causing the division – it's people who cannot bear hearing people suggest things or believe things that are contrary to their views – and so division occurs.

The Challenge of Maintaining a Subjective Approach

If and when believers are willing to die to themselves, allow all people the right to think and to pursue God being fully convinced in their own mind of what they accept and reject, and will accept all into open loving fellowship along the way, division is impossible – and the subjective approach proves itself to be our solution to infighting and divisional sectarianism. Admittedly, this approach is brutally difficult to maintain. Add in that the ease of denominational order allows for less discomfort and more feigned unity, the Subjective Approach will always struggle to survive. But I ardently maintain that it is not only the solution to division in the Body; I maintain that it is overall supported by more biblical principles than any other approach.

Recognizing and Defending Truth in Scripture

As found in Scripture? Taking a stand for truth requires that a “TRUTH” be recognized, defended, and promoted. After that, the loving thing to do is point others toward and encourage others to have confidence in what is true. Pointing to Jesus is sometimes unpopular, but it is the responsibility of believers to do so in a definitive way, not leaving wiggle room for anything but the TRUE and AUTHENTIC Lord Jesus. I think Matt’s advice to trust the texts of Scripture over and above the “feelings” of being “led by the Spirit” in matters of faith is the safest and more reasonable path to follow. With all due respect, Shawn needs to sharpen his skills in critical thinking, as it is disappointing to see him attempt to appeal to experience and feelings of being “led” by the Spirit, only to arrive at so many self-contradictory conclusions. To do so seems to diminish the importance of Loving God with everything he has given us, which includes our mind. A disciplined and intellectual effort to understand Scripture, while depending on the Spirit seems to be a better balance as promoted by Matt Slick. Especially as Shawn might have unintentionally appeared to be mocking Matt’s more thorough and comprehensive methodology. Unfortunately, Shawn seemed to disparage that more inclusive, and sensible approach toward discovering the fullest meaning of Scripture. Jude 3

The New Law of Love in Christ Jesus

Jordan Hathcock Oct 10, 2016 Hi John Black, Good points. I agree in some of the things you said, with regarding finding straightforward teachings as found in Scripture. Also, you said TRUTH needs to be recognized defended, and promoted and a BALANCE of Spirit and Scripture needs to be used. This is all true and what I got from Shawn is he is not against this approach. Shawn’s teaching at CAMPUS is verse by verse from the scriptures. Shawn teaches from the scriptures. The point I got from Shawn is this: The Church today uses the scriptures as a tool to divide instead of unite. We use the scriptures as a new mosaic law instead of using them to unite in the NEW LAW OF LOVE IN CHRIST JESUS. You say TRUTH needs to be defended and recognized. I agree! What is TRUTH, John? JESUS!!!!! Not the scriptures!!!! (John 5:39) Jesus is the Life Giver and the NEW LAW is written in our HEARTS AND MINDS, not ink (Heb 8:10, 10:16). Paul says we are the LIVING EPISITLES not written in ink but written in our hearts to be read by EVERYONE (2 Cor 3:2). Fruit of the Spirit is how we know what is DANGEROUS, not if someone believes in Free will or not, Eternal Punishment, is Jesus Trinity, etc (in which even these topics are debated throughout all of Christianity with diverse views). It is by their FRUITS that we know if they speak JESUS (truth) or not (Matt 7:16).

The Role of Hermeneutics and Exegesis

From what I can see from Shawn and HOTM/CAMPUS is the fruit of the Spirit. Matt is right, TRUTH HURTS. Christianity as a whole needs to see that Jesus Christ is our Redeemer, not the scriptures. This hurts the mindset of sola scriptura. One last thing that I find really fascinating. Christian scholars, teachers are so adamant about the proper Hermeneutics and exegesis. Do you know that Jesus and the new testament writers quote old testament verse OUT OF CONTEXT (according to Scholars “hermeneutics and exegesis)??? Here is an example of Jesus our King not using the proper hermeneutics: John 15:25: But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law: They hated me without a cause. This is quoted (not in proper exact words, mind you) Psalms 35:19 and Psalm 69:4. David wrote this about HIS enemies, not Christ’s enemies. This according to proper hermeneutics is out of context. This is about David’s enemies and not Christ's. BUT Christ shows that it was regarding HIMSELF so the scriptures may be fulfilled! That is the point of scripture: To REVEAL CHRIST. One more: Matthew 2:14-15-So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.” This is quoted from Hosea 11:1. Do you know what the proper “context” is of this verse? Israel not Jesus! The nation of Israel was being called out of Egypt not

The Life Giver and the Spirit of God

What I am trying to show is the Life Giver has always and is and will always be Jesus Christ. Not the letter written in ink for that letter kills…the Spirit of God through Jesus Christ COMING OUT of scripture saves 🙂

Christ’s Peace,
Jordan from Oceanside, CA

The Big Fallout

Hi Shawn long time no see. I was a supporter until the big blowout. I was wondering if you could tell me in a nut shell why the other churches shunned you. You know you have helped a lot of people.
Thank You Tim

Response to Tim

Hey Tim,

Great to hear from you, my brother. For starters the "churches" and their Pastors were never really behind me. I have always presented them with angst. When Romney ran against Obama the leader of the Utah churches (who was part of Romney's team) did not in the least appreciate my public stances against a Mormon President. This was a thorn in his side. In Dec of 2012, when I came out and said I was going to focus 2013 on an examination of the Christian churches this was just the ammunition this local leader needed and he lead the movement to have me removed from live television. I was really not one bit different of a person when removed then I was when I started: truth is truth and I'm gonna teach it.

In the end the outing was the greatest blessing to me personally because I was liberated from the confines of live commercial television and was forced to establish a ministry apart from any other influences. This setting also allowed me (for the first time since becoming Christian) to really examine much of what I was just regurgitating as a new Christian which included domatic views on the Trinity, eternal punishment, eschatology, sola scriptura, and the present authority exercised in the Church. Once I questioned the trinity (and challenged it) the doors swung wide and anyone and everyone who ever thought me a pain ran it and finished the job of my being even remotely accepted as a Christian.

Today I am perhaps more maligned by Christians (online) and particularly in the state of Utah than even the leaders of the LDS church. But along this rocky road God has greatly blessed us with new viewers and followers around the world who are tired, tired tired of playing church and want genuine appeals to the faith. We are a "sold out for Jesus, non-dogmatic, consider all things, teachers of the Word online church that preaches subjective Christianity. While accepting all religious appeals to Jesus we personally reject all forms of objective institutional religiousity and use the Bible to support this stance. We have a book called "knife to a gunfight" that is getting legs and proves our points therein. (send me an address and we'll get one to you if your are interested.

So there it is. Thank you for all your support in the past, Tim. The ministry continues to reach people with over 500 videos to the LDS. Daily we receive emails from those who benefit by them. May God bless you in all you are, and in all you do, for His cause.

Shawn

Response to Accusations

Hand in hand with this observation, someone called Matt’s show last week (when he was here so a guest host took the call) and from what I was told made a number of claims (I didn’t hear it so I don’t know if this is true – but assuming it was) the claims were:

• I don’t endorse the Bible.
• I teach that anything goes.
• And that I am a “leftist.”

I want to offer a response to these three accusations: First, that I don’t endorse the Bible. It’s the only thing I really do endorse. This is proven by our double, verse by verse Bible gatherings every week. It is proven by our refusal to sing the words of Man but we sing Bible passages. Its proven by my promotion of the Bible. What I won’t do, however, is let biblical interpretations separate me from those who claim Jesus as Lord. I will not say that it is perfect but only that it is sufficient to lead all who seek to find. I will not say that it must be taken literally, or figuratively, or allegorically. I allow the Spirit to decide how individuals will receive it.

Second, that I teach that anything and everything goes. There is some truth to this but like all things it must be taken contextually. First of all – people do what

Beliefs and Perspectives

They are going to do. People are going to believe what they want to believe. All people have that right – in fact, they have that responsibility – and it's not easy. So in a sense, I do have a style that seems to support the notion that anything and everything goes. If someone tells me that they are living in sin, my response is, “What do you think of Jesus?” If they tell me they are gay I say, “What say you of Jesus?” If they say they are not a Christian, and believe that Jesus was a myth, I say, “What can I tell you about Jesus that might change your mind?"

If someone arrives at our study of the Word and says: “I am a homosexual adulterer atheist that eats house cats and vote communist,” I say, “Well, welcome! Grab a bagel, something to drink and hear the Word of the Lord.” If we define this as a person who teaches that anything goes, so be it. But I do NOT teach that anything goes. That is untrue. I teach God’s word to the best of my ability and let others receive it according to the Spirit. I let God do the convincing, not me.

Perspectives on Labels

Finally, that I am a leftist. If all we have said makes me a leftist then go ahead and use the title to make sure you get as many rightists to hate the approach we endorse. But like most titles, it is limited in scope and actually quite unfair. I am liberal where liberality is commended. I am orthodox where and when orthodoxy is truly warranted. So there.

Personal Stories and Questions

I know that you are a very busy man. I would just like to share a short clip of this man's near-death experience as he died on the operating table having open-heart surgery. He met Jesus. Every time I watch it my eyes start to sweat, especially when he speaks of the Love Christ radiated towards him as he embraced Richard. It reminds me of the Agape Love that God is and has for His children (and that you teach about at C.A.M.P.U.S.!) It's very short, maybe start watching at the 4:30 mark. God bless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AziiHUZY71Y

Messages from Listeners

From: Hanna Painter

Subject: Trying to leave the LDS church

Message Body: Hi Shawn, I have been LDS all my life, I have just found out about the church history, I have been shocked by my lack of knowledge of the church, and lost all faith in the church, my problem is I'm 32 I lost my mom when I was 24, 10 weeks before I got married, and I really want to see her again and be with her again, do you believe in life after death? I'm finding it hard to leave the church I feel very trapped, how did you stop going when it's such a huge part of your life. Thank you for your time, I hope you can help me. Hanna

From: Cheri

Subject: Ex-LDS, atheist?

Message Body: Hi Shawn. I recently left the LDS church. My family has fallen apart. My problem is that I attended a non-denominational church for a few months but it didn't work because the whole concept of God sending anyone to eternal punishment for not being able to believe seemed incredibly unfair to me. I've known good people who could not be convinced and I would never want to hurt them for being honest. I can't proof-read this it's all mushed & jumbled. So the concept of eternal punishment is threatening, not loving. I cannot accept the thought that anyone would be punished for not being able to believe something. How can anyone force themself to believe anything? Either you are convinced or you're not. Honesty is the virtue in this (my) situation. Do you think it's fair for a person like me to be burned & tortured for all eternity just for being honest about what I'm able to believe? I cannot follow that god. And I feel lost. I can't read this at all, it's jumbled. Please don't use my name on public forums. Thank you.

From: Mark Laubman

Subject: Tonight's show

Message Body: Shawn, your daughters have every right to question Matt. However, this should take place privately because no one knew the history and I just think it ruined the entire debate. This was unprofessional and I am no longer tuning into your show. I felt bad for Matt. He's a son of God just like you. Cheap shots don't belong in this arena. Perhaps a mediation between your daughters and Matt is due. I'm ashamed that this even was.

The Importance of Love in Ministry

From: Thom Chilton
Subject: Your live show with Matt Slick
Message Body:
I watched this show to the end and can tell you that Matt Slick showed everyone that he does know and can quote the bible front to back. His knowledge and memory is impressive. However, you and Mary and your family all possess something that Mr. Slick does not have. It is pure LOVE! Thank God for your ministry. I love you and your family very much. I also love God and thank you for helping me find Him.

An Encounter with the "Mormon" Bigfoot

Dear Shawn,

On your show, you talked about the “Mormon” Bigfoot (Cain). Would you believe me if I told you I actually encountered Bigfoot when I was a young boy? It’s true!

Now, if Bigfoot is Cain, then he is the brother of Abel. Both are the sons of Adam and Eve, who were created, according to Mormonism, in God's physical image. Originally, Cain was in the image of Adam who was created in the image of God. Since Adam, as recorded in Luke 3:38, is "the son of God," Cain would be God's grandson! Consequently, if Cain became "Bigfoot," then God is Bigfoot’s grandfather! (But don’t tell anybody!)

Believe it or not, Shawn, I really did see Bigfoot in the woods of New Jersey at the age of eleven. I kid you not! (I got the whole story written up.) If that creature was Cain, then I’m a monkey’s uncle!

Burt's Nephew?

Narcissism and Truth Seeking

From: Brad Hilzer
Subject: Narcissism
Message Body:
Hello Shawn,
As usual, most of your preaching is up to the moment appropriate to what I'm thinking of or experiencing in my life. You constantly reference truth-seeking and truth seekers. In my experience, these people who claim to be seekers avoid God like the plague. They invent a god or have become one and their search is over. These seekers have saved themselves through knowledge. They have discovered the secrets of the universe and are hell-bent to share their Gnosticism with others. As I look back on my salvational experience, it was narcissism/pride/self that was holding me back. Self was my stumbling block. Self is still to this very day a worry for me. I have to always be on guard against it.
Love ya brother,
Brad Hilzer
Loveland, Colorado

Understanding Matt Slick

What I am about to say is said in complete love for my Brother Matt Slick. Nothing that I say has not been said by him publicly.

First of all, I want to emphasize that Matt is a brother who loves the Lord, he is faithful and dutiful and has a tremendous grasp of scripture. This gift has to be admired and we praise God for it in this world.

But this past week I have received a number of criticisms about Matt by people which need some context in order for there to be continued understanding in his labors. Most of the negative charges I received were that Matt is arrogant and self-centered. Anyone who knows the Word knows that human pride and arrogance are antithetical to God and His ways and so the wonderment is how can we take a man seriously who recites the word like a scribe but appears so arrogant at times.

I would suggest that instead of calling Matt arrogant and proud we might say that Matt has a hard time seeing, appreciating or understanding other people’s points of views (outside of his own) but there’s a reason for this – Matt is autistic. Now this is what Matt says about himself – in fact, it is often one of the first things you learn about him when you meet him.

Years ago Matt told me that he had Aspergers Syndrome and I didn’t really believe him (in light of his keen mind). Today however he (and those who know him) plainly state that he has autism – and I think it’s true. The word autism is derived from the word auto – meaning self. In cases of severe autism the sufferer cannot communicate with the outside world and its ways in any fashion. They are fully self-centered.

In Matt’s case, he is somewhat incapable of thinking or seeing certain points of view that stand outside of his own. I would imagine that all human beings are to some extent or another autistic. But Matt’s autism manifests itself – sometimes extremely – as limiting his capacity to think outside of what he himself has determined to be true.

Understanding Matt's Condition

To people watching or listening to him that are unaware of his admitted and publicized condition, he is labeled arrogant, proud, and self-centered – and these are terms which suggest it's his fault and he can humble himself. To a certain extent, I don’t think so. Matt, again who openly admits this, simply suffers from autism. And in the face of this, he ought to be understood – and appreciated – in this light.

Acknowledging His Contributions

So we take the good views he shares and the good information he compiles and presents and praise God for this gift to the world. And we withhold judgment on the things he says and does that appear arrogant and myopic, realizing that he cannot, in many ways, engage the views of others that do not fit in the way he sees the world.

Respecting Diverse Perspectives

I did not fully realize this until his last visit to Salt Lake and after spending some time with him privately and even on air. I regret debating with Matt. It will never happen again. There is no point. But understand I respect his views and believe they have as much right in the body of believers as mine. May God continue to bless Matt and CARM and his outstanding knowledge of the Word. And I really hope that the parties he engages with publicly – the Muslims and the Atheists and the like – take into consideration that when they are debating their points, Matt is incapable of hearing or relating to them, and therefore comes off as arrogant and proud – when he really just suffers from a somewhat debilitating condition. Don’t we all?

We’ll see you next week here on HOTM.