Heart of the Matter: Exploring Christian Truth-Claims

February 17th, 2015

This program is being presented in an effort to investigate all Christian truth-claims by comparing them with a contextual understanding of the Bible and its original intent. We are not interested in supporting or promoting any tradition, person, practice, culture, or denomination that stands contrary to this reasonable and contextual approach to scripture. Nothing is so sacred that it is exempt from scrutiny. Nothing is so popular and accepted that it won’t be discarded if found wanting and unreasonable. This is Heart of the Matter… where we make every effort to worship God in Spirit and Truth.

Live from Salt Lake City, Utah, this is Heart of the Matter, where we do all we can to try and worship God in Spirit and in Truth. I’m your host, Shawn McCraney.

A Baptism Experience

Before we begin, I am really impressed to share two things with you – one an experience and the other a very important point for your consideration. A few months ago, we had a young man email and ask if I would baptize him. We get a request for water baptism almost monthly, and I typically don’t treat them too urgently simply because I think people ought to experience water baptism before people who will fellowship with them in their local community. So I did not respond to Robert's request other than to say we could work on that happening someday. He persisted. And persisted. So I gave in and set a time and place – last Saturday Night at a downtown hotel Jacuzzi.

The city was swarming with well-dressed people as I made my way to the designated spot. They had their sights set on some LDS events and my levis, bandanas, and presence made me feel like a gorilla at a cotillion. When I entered the lobby of the hotel, I saw Robert in his shorts and t-shirt. He was holding a towel in his large hands. We waited for a hotel employee who is a believer to show up and let us in the Jacuzzi area, Robert and I talked. He is a security guard. Works two jobs to support his three-year-old son whose mother parted ways with Robert over the fact that Robert left Mormonism. When our brother selflessly arrived on his day off to let us in, we discovered that a couple was occupying the Jacuzzi. So we opted to go to the outdoor pool that was closed for the season and covered, and while my brother pulled the cover back, Robert and I prepared to enter.

Our brother then prayed over the proceedings, breaking into tears and thanking God for the opportunity to participate in this expression of faith, the glow of Mormonism’s temple square reflecting in the leaf-strewn baptismal waters below. We then stepped into some of the coldest water I have ever felt and Robert, admitting publicly his devotion and love for Jesus Christ, submitted to being buried with Christ. Warm, we hugged. And I exited that pool a better man, a more faithful man, a man abundantly blessed by this beautiful rite, by the humility of Robert, and the selfless service of another brother to help.

Love for the Gospel

The associated point I want to make is this: I LOVE the Gospel of Jesus Christ and all the associations I have been blessed to have with it. I love our King, and I love those who have received Him by faith. I LOVE the Word of God, and make a constant review of it part of my daily life. Amidst ALL the criticisms against me, against my views and the things I call into question, I want everyone to know that my intentions are to help better the faith we all hold dear, and not to harm it. I want it to last into the ages and to help it not wither on traditions and trends that have no right imposing themselves into the beauty it presents.

Commitment to Truth

Please know – please let me reaffirm – I love God, I love His Son, I love His word, and I try to love others as a result. We are going to get down and dirty in the coming weeks and months. I am going to present things that will be as offensive to some believers as a vast and invasive surgery that is aimed at cutting away cancer. But it’s all an effort to honor the King and those who seek Him in Spirit and Truth.

And with that, let’s have a prayer.

Understanding Denominationalism

pretty good case for the fact that despite all of the external differences between the denominations we all DO, in fact, embrace and promote the same gospel, right? I hope we can agree on this point at least.

However we have had a few emails that have intimated that what we are doing in antithetical to the very thing we are trying to stand against – with the claim being we are merely creating just another denomination in the process. This is a really, really, good point and it is worth taking five minutes to examine.

When I was in the Calvary Chapel School of Ministry it was a time when there was a lot of debate over whether Calvary Chapel had become a denomination. Chuck Smith worked very hard for the church not to be denominationally inclined and did a pretty good job (for a while) protecting the approach to doing church from what we all know is the inevitable when people gather in Jesus name – separatist positions, division and denominationalism. Of course the inevitable did occur – and most assuredly churches that bear the Calvary Chapel name are, in fact, just another denomination.

The Role of Calvary Chapel Distinctives

The fault lies with Chuck producing what are known as the Calvary Chapel Distinctives – a series of distinct positions that serve to define the churches point of view on a number of factors and which also serve to determine whether a pastor will be allowed to use the Calvary Chapel name and its distinctive dove logo in the establishment of their church. In the Table of Contents of an actual pamphlet called CALVARY CHAPEL Distinctives (authored by Chuck Smith – a man I greatly admire) we can read about what pastors must teach and believe if they can be accepted and considered a Calvary Chapel. The topics include:

• God’s model for the church
• Church Government
• Empowerment by the Spirit
• Building the Church God’s Way
• Grace
• The Priority of the Word
• The Centrality of Jesus Christ
• The Rapture of the Church
• Having Begun in the Spirit
• The Supremacy of Love
• Striking the Balance
• Ventures of Faith

I am not going to articulate what is involved in each of these headings but just know this – they are distinctives of being a Calvary Chapel and they do represent the Calvary Chapel denomination.

Inevitability of Denominations

But let’s be fair – denominations are inevitable whenever people sit down and read the Bible and disagree on its purpose, application and interpretation. I mean if we really think about it Jesus Himself started a denomination when He said:

“If ye believe not that I am ye shall die in your sins.”

With those words He literally divided the world up into two camps – those who believe that Jesus is I AM (and don’t die in their sins) and those who do not believe this and do.

You have heard me state on numerous occasions how I am so much against denominationalism in the Body of Christ. But is it possible to avoid it? No and yes. Let me explain.

We cannot avoid belonging to a denomination as Christians – that denomination is known as the Body of Christ – and to belong to it – to be a part of it – there are standards and doctrines and points that divide its members from the rest of the world. I would suggest that belonging to this singular body or denomination is based on spiritual factors established between God (by the Holy Spirit) and individuals.

So in this sense denominationalism CANNOT

Rethinking Denominationalism in Christianity

But once a person has become a member of the Body of Christ by faith, I would suggest there is, in fact, an approach that will avoid further division, which ought not be acceptable in the catholic (lower case) or universal church. This “way” has existed since Christ established His church, and it is high time believers begin to demand it be embraced and followed rather than what has happened historically in denominationalism around the world.

So, as people have on occasion said to me, “Aren’t you just starting another denomination?” but I think the better question ought to be, “What makes what you are suggesting ANY different or better than what ALL the other denominations and sects have done for the past two thousand years?”

The Original Approach

Let me try and explain: First, we are not doing anything different than what has been going on since Jesus sent the Holy Spirit. All we are doing is pointing out what has been going on by virtue of the Holy Spirit ever since. Secondly, in pointing out what has ALWAYS made up the Body of Christ we simultaneously allow for the natural deconstruction of what men have tried to implement in and around the Body along the way. I am not mandating such deconstructions but know in the face of truth they will fade away naturally. And the natural deconstruction will begin once believers begin to read the Bible as once having physical application but now having primacy in the Spirit.

Let me use the whiteboard to illustrate this. Let’s take and list the major factors that play into brick-and-mortar denominationalism on one side of the board.

Traditional Denominational Stances

• Gospel
• Taking the Bible as its authority (and varying degrees of human tradition) then making distinctive stances on:
  • Authority and ordination
  • Baptism (water and Spirit)
  • Confession (of sin)
  • Church Governance
  • Women’s Roles (or lack thereof)
  • Dress and grooming
  • Diet and/or forbidden items
  • Forbidden and allowed lifestyles
  • Dating rules and standards
  • Positions on tithes and giving
  • Positions on Sabbath day and Lord's day
  • Political activity or allegiances
  • Soteriological stances
  • Service form and substance
  • Approaches to music/worship
  • Approaches to prayer
  • Serving and service hours
  • Building plans and architecture
  • Programs for mid-week for all sorts of groups including
    • Fathers and mothers
    • Couples
    • Teens
    • Singles
    • Children
    • Nursery
    • Addiction
    • Etc
  • Rules for giving and benevolence
  • Disciplinary procedures
  • Eschatological positions (end times)
  • Gifts of the Spirit
  • Fasting practices
  • Positions on healing
  • Even stances on ontology of God
  • Ideas on hell
  • Approaches to disciplining children & teens
  • Adopting the teaching summaries of men like Calvin, Arminius, Smith, Popes.

I mean the list can get pretty tedious and therefore divisive – with most using the Bible to substantiate their claims and justify breaking off or dividing in the face of what they think the Bible says. Got all that? We should – we have 2000 years of examples and today are faced with some 35,000 plus different denominations all seeking to differentiate themselves.

A Return to Subjective Christianity

What does it stand upon?

• Gospel Affirming (as defined by the Bible)
• Bible Teaching

PERIOD. DONE. THE HOLY SPIRIT LEADS AND TEACHES

THAT IS SUBJECTIVE CHRISTIANITY:

A Gospel Affirming Bible Teaching Experience.

PERIOD!!

(go to Denominational distinctives list)

Authority and ordination? (none. Those who want to teach and those who wish to listen. People vote with their feet if a teacher is spirit led or not) Baptism (if people want or Spirit leads – mode? Who cares. It's emblematic) Confession (if led and only as a help – never as a requirement to cleansing) Church Governance (for what? All we are doing is gathering and letting a teacher teach and letting the…

Areas of Religious Practice

Women’ Roles (same as men’s – in every way) Dress and grooming (huh?) Diet and or forbidden items (what?) Forbidden and allowed lifestyles (which? If Christianity is subjectively lived and guided by the Holy Spirit and not physical applications or man-made authority, where does lifestyle policing begin and end?) Church hierarchy (at the height it seems that there is a need only of managers of the physical elements. What physical elements? EXPLAIN) Positions on tithes and giving (none. Everything is by the spirit never by the flesh. Never passing anything, never petitioning for this need or that, never building fund drives. Where God guides God will provide) Positions on Sabbath day and Lord's day (none every minute of every day is the Lord’s) Soteriological stances (all taught, approached, debated allowed) Service form (none) Approaches to music (spirit led) Approaches to prayer (sure – whomever) Serving and service hours (huh?) Building plans and architecture (nope)

Church Programs

Programs for mid-week for all sorts of groups including Fathers and mothers, Couples, Teens, Singles, Children, Nursery, Addiction, Etc (Whatever is possible and permissible) Rules for giving support to widows homeless etc (as lead) Disciplinary procedures (for what?) Eschatological positions (end times – none. All taught. All accepted.) Gifts of the Spirit (whatever) Fasting practices (if lead) Positions on healing (whatever) Even stances on ontology of God Ideas on hell (all taught. All allowed from Bible) Approaches to disciplining children/teens (none) Adopting the teaching summaries of men like Calvin, Arminist, Smith, Popes (teach them all – let the individuals decide).

Unifying Religious Practices

In my estimation this approach will propagate the Body and remove division and cause people to step up and decide for themselves what they are going to believe and do with their faith and what they will reject. One final point:

Let’s say the entire world embraced this approach – which again I believe represents what God has had rolling forward since the beginning of His Body – but let’s say all the brick and mortars have the guts to do this. That pastors actually check their theological pride at the door and allow all positions and practices to flourish freely. And all he or she does is really teach the Bible from a non-sectarian point of view. Because we are human this is what will happen:

First all the churches deconstruct and the walls come crumbling down. In time, someone, somewhere will pop up and say: “I think we need to reign everybody in.” Or a group will get together and indignant at the fact that some people are dabbling in scary matters and they will determine that someone needs to take control. And a sect or denomination will be born. New distinctives. New demands. New laws. Revised theologies. Because that is what MEN do. That is what Constantine did. And the lazy fearful masses – wanting to give up their responsibility to think and act before God for themselves – will flock to the place that is calling for reform and order.

The Impact of Model X

Seeing their success other men, wanting the same power and having ideas of their own on how things should be done will begin to do the same (and in time) we will see 35000 denominations all claiming to possess the way. And maybe at that point someone will come along and say: NONE of it matters. The ONLY thing that matters is that the Good News is affirmed and the Bible is taught – no matter what the opinions are on each disputable matter may be.

(long beat)

So before getting into our topic more tonight let’s give this approach legs. We’ll call it Model X. A person who feels called of God that openly and readily affirms the Good News will do their best to teach the Bible every week. Sometimes other people will feel impressed to teach as well. Sometimes they will choose to do communion. Sometimes they will choose to perform water baptisms. In my case I personally suggest that

Manifestation and Belief

God is One who manifests Himself in flesh and sent the Holy Spirit thereafter to guide all people to Jesus. I teach that Jesus has returned in 70AD as promised. I also justify my belief that afterlife punishment is a reality but not eternal. But in addition to teaching such things, I always include two essential caveats:

First, I admit that I may be wrong in my assessment of matters and then we always remind people that they need to believe matters as they are led.

Now let's say Billy Williams comes along and he wants to embrace subjective Christianity. And let's say that he wants to be affiliated with the X model. I would tell Billy that as long as he affirms the Good News and teaches the Bible he is more than welcome to tell people he uses the X model. "But I'm a five-point Calvinist," he cries. "So?" "Well, I'm gonna teach the Bible from this perspective," he adds. "As you are led," comes the reply. See, in this way, Christ is honored, scripture is taught, and the Gospel is affirmed.

Am I in agreement with Calvinism? Not at all. But I am in agreement with unity, with welcoming brothers and sisters of all Christian thought, and with promoting the Good News – and not ever fighting the disputable matter with each other. Can you see how this approach could serve us more than anything we have ever done to date?

So there's that. Alright, let's erase all this and let me just cover the first part of an illustration that will carry forward into next week.

Authority and Christianity

The claim by churches today is that they

• Have some sort of authority to do what they do and say what they say, and
• that they represent the model that Jesus and the apostles instituted prior to 70 AD.

So let's work through these ideas by appealing to some of the historical facts surrounding the development of Christianity.

While the Catholics claim direct apostolic authority (even though they did not have their first Pope until 600 AD) and the Protestants claim authority over the visible churches by the thousands today (even though there is no line except back to men who challenged authority) and the LDS claim ultimate authority (even though their line of authority came from fictional heavenly visitations), how are we to understand the reality of Christianity founded by Jesus that continues to thrive in the hearts of believers in this day and age?

Illustration of Christian History

Imagine this white board represents the nearly 2000 years of Christian history. Right in the center we have

• The creation
• The nation of Israel
• The arrival of their promised Messiah
• His life, death, resurrection, ascension.
• His giving of the Holy Spirit
• The ministry of the empowered twelve apostles to reach all from the house of Israel as possible – who He came for.
• His return with judgment and salvation for all who trusted.

ONE DOT IN THE CENTER
You might think this is ludicrous, that God could or would redeem all of his from this little dot but it is by small means (not the mighty) that God does what He does, right?
GRAPHIC POP UP OF
1st Corinthians 1:25-29

From here – the established destruction of Jerusalem, the genealogies, the temple mount and the scattering of the remaining Nation of Israel all occurs within this dot.

This is where we are going to leave off tonight and we'll pick it back up here next week.

Let's open up the phone lines:

(801)

RUN SPOT HERE

I have a question:
If we didn't exist before we are

Understanding Biblical Narratives

The Concept of Pre-Earth Existence

Born, what does the scripture in Isaiah 14:12-15 mean? Also Ezekiel 28:12-19 and Revelation 12:4. It sounds like we existed before in heaven. What about the war in heaven and 1/3 of the hosts of heaven chose Satan. It sounds like they existed before earth life. Just trying to understand the Bible. I'm coming out of Mormonism, and like my oldest son told me (he's 35), now we don't know what we understand that is biblical or is Mormonism. I'm slowly listening to your old shows. At first, I was bouncing all around, now I listen to the weekly broadcast, and am in year 2007 in catch-up.

Thanks, Yvonne.

Navigating Biblical Translation and Interpretation

Your "growth" (work in progress) was very apparent in the way you handled yourself. I, for one, greatly appreciate your effort to leave no stone unturned in getting to the truth about what the Bible is really trying to teach us. How unfortunate for the body as a whole that translation and interpretation have led to so much contention. I believe this may be why God, in all of his foreknowledge, simplified his commandments for us… to love Him, first, and then our neighbors as ourselves. Thank you again for all that you do, and all that you share. Keep up the good works! May God continue to bless… Kerry.

Good morning Shawn,

Tensions in Scriptural Teachings

It was interesting to listen to your opponent's stance; say on circumcision and what he firmly believed Paul said about it. But you could jump to Acts and read "Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek." Or you could bring up Jesus saying those who live by the sword, die by the sword but then later Jesus saying sell your cloaks and purchase some swords. "Lord we only have two swords" and His response is "that is enough". Opponents of the Bible say it's contradictory, but I have found that Truth is suspended or held in tension between opposites (take faith vs works for example). I think God intended for it to be written this way so that we would/could not be dogmatic, but to keep us in relationship with the Holy Spirit and keep it real, living, open, authentic; instead of just going, "yep, got that one figured out, yep- know that one already" which would cause us to disengage.

He tells us to be as wise as serpents. How did Paul navigate through life when he shares this with us: "To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some." I can guarantee there was a lot of so-called rule-breaking going on to create a bridge and that being a bridge of love I might add.

That brings me to what The Lord has been sharing with me this year (my previous email I shared the previous year with all the "76" Revolution business). This year He has been giving me the number 61 and He has shown me it's Isaiah 61 (in fact it was 61 on my trip odometer in the parking lot when I left your studio this evening). What really stands out to me in this part of Isaiah is: "to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of joy instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair. They will be called oaks of righteousness, a planting of The Lord for the display of his splendor. They will rebuild the ancient ruins and restore the places long devastated; they will renew the ruined cities that have been devastated for generations."

So The Lord recently directed me to the Rush song "Farewell to Kings" specifically. Reminds me of when He dropped Don Henley's "Heart of the Matter" song into your lap. Mind you- I had not listened to Rush in almost two decades. Check out the lyrics:

When they turn the pages

Reflections on Society and Faith

When these days have passed long ago Will they read of us with sadness For the seeds that we let grow? We turned our gaze From the castles in the distance Eyes cast down On the path of least resistance. Cities full of hatred, fear and lies Withered hearts and cruel, tormented eyes Scheming demons dressed in kingly guise Beating down the multitude and Scoffing at the wise. The hypocrites are slandering The sacred Halls of Truth Ancient nobles showering Their bitterness on youth Can't we find the minds that made us strong? Can't we learn to feel what's right And what's wrong? What's wrong? Cities full of hatred, fear and lies Withered hearts and cruel, tormented eyes Scheming demons dressed in kingly guise Beating down the multitude and Scoffing at the wise Can't we raise our eyes and make a start? Can't we find the minds to lead us Closer to the heart?

Inspiration from an Album Cover

He then directed me to check out the album cover: I about died when I saw it(I had it on cassette as a teenager and never cared to make the picture out). It's Isaiah 61- "I will place a crown on their heads and they will restore/ rebuild the ruined cities." The song spoke to me as My people have dropped the ball and now there is an Isaiah 61 mandate on this generation. As in the puppet strings that have controlled My people far too long need to be cut and the crown placed back on their head and they will begin to rebuild that which has been long devastated. I leave you with a final thought. The song "Farewell to Kings" ends with "can't we find the minds that lead us closer to the heart" which points to the song "Closer to the Heart" which is on the same album.

Closer to the Heart

And the men who hold high places Must be the ones who start To mold a new reality Closer to the heart Closer to the heart. The blacksmith and the artist Reflect it in their art They forge their creativity Closer to the heart Closer to the heart. Philosophers and ploughmen Each must know his part To sow a new mentality Closer to the heart Closer to the heart. You can be the captain I will draw the chart Sailing into destiny Closer to the heart.

Blessings, Dee

From: Hunter

Subject: Witnessing to mormon friends

Message Body:

Hey love the show! Since starting chiropractic school I have come from never meeting a Mormon to having about 15 mormons in my class. Some of which are pretty good friends. My question is..How do I effectively witness to them? I have raised questions to them, but I never get a direct answer and I am constantly told to consult a missionary. I am trying to find the balance in witnessing to them and loving them to over reaching the boundary and turning them away from the truth. I think I have upset some of them..but I am only telling of the truth Gospel of Jesus Christ and trying to expose some hidden things that you have talked about in your show. Thanks again!..Cant wait to start your book.

Your brother in Christ, Hunter Denton

Perspective on Art and Faith

Hey, Shawn! Appreciate the reply, my brother. I know you’re super busy, so I’ll keep this brief. Saw an episode of the show just last week in which you talked about universal reconciliation. Can’t tell you how much my heart leaped to hear that! It’s a biblical teaching and stretches all the way back to Paul and the church fathers thereafter. The teaching has infused me with an invincible optimism, knowing that no matter how bad things get for me personally or for the world, our Father is in total control and He will judge justly.

Anyway, as you know I’m an artist. I’m also a musician. God’s unfailing love and intimate concern for His Creation are not hot topics in either of those worlds. LOL Add to that my conviction in God’s ultimate restoration of His Creation, and you can understand it’s hard to get any art or music work without compromising. So I don’t. I do it all in my own free time and at my own expense.

With that said, I know you said you didn’t need any music videos, but I just felt prompted to write this and send you this HD-quality music video I produced and directed (and sorta starred in LOL) for an instrumental composition I did on the invincible optimism spoke about above. It’s called “Invincible Optimism”. If it blesses you personally, that’s great enough. But if you’d like to share it on the show and bless me by doing so and maybe bless others, you have my permission to do so. (For what it’s worth, my aunt was recently diagnosed with breast cancer and she told me that she kept listening to this song over and over again.)

Here’s a link to

Reflections on Religious Dialogue and Quest for Truth

From Taiwan, Joshua Warren shares a profound sentiment, expressing his admiration for the shared spirit he perceives in others, despite geographical distances.

Hi Shawn, You almost certainly won't remember me but we exchanged e-mails a few years ago on the subject of family names and their origins, since I live in Scotland and you had ancestors that had come from here. At that time you were still focused exclusively on reaching out to Mormons and were very orthodox in your doctrines. I differed a lot from you at that time, especially since I had rejected the trinity and the deity of Christ. Nonetheless, I could perceive that you were a sincere individual, and that's enough for me to acknowledge anyone as a brother.

A friend of mine recently called into your show (William from Scotland) and I thought I'd send an e-mail to also commend you on your bravery in scrutinizing the sacred cows of Christianity in the face of so much hostility. Although William is from the Lowlands and I'm from the Highlands, the church in Scotland as a whole is all but dead, and so there aren't the kind of structures here to attack us in the way that you have been attacked by church leaders in your area. Because of this, it was relatively easy for us to come to reject the trinity, reject eternal torment, accept preterism, and so on.

I know how much negativity you receive because of your quest for truth, so I thought I'd send a little additional positivity your way. When I first stumbled across your show by accident all those years ago, I thought you were a genuinely nice guy who just different from me doctrinally, but you've shown yourself to be much more. You've shown yourself to be a genuine truth-seeker and I applaud you for that, even if your journey ultimately takes you to a different place than myself once again. There's no doubt in my mind that you're serving as an inspiration to far more people around the world than you know.

God Be With You, David McMurdo

Challenges in Religious Understanding

Hello from the 'Bible belt of Southern Alberta Canada'.

So many things I need to dialogue with you about. I so appreciate your efforts and your passion for the true Jesus.

We live in a community which was populated with LDS folks. The temple in Cardston is a tourist focal point.

I knew at first contact that there was something 'fishy' about these people. Before I was born again in 1985, I just felt uneasy around them. Working and living among these deceived ones just did not suit me. When Jesus called me to be his own, I started to become painfully aware of their false religion.

I guess I need clarification from you on a question that is so hard to even contemplate.

How can these doctor/lawyer, university professor, educator men and women be so far out of touch with the true living God?

Thanks again for your ministry and may He bless you richly.

Engagement with Diverse Theological Perspectives

Dear Mr. McCraney, Salutations!

In case you do not recall, I have written in support of your ministry in the past, when you focused on Mormonism. While I have not kept up with your shows since you returned, I have just watched your recent debate with Mr. Wallace. This prompted me to review some of your other videos from the last year, including the "Inquisition." Interesting! I know you have a lot on your plate, so I will keep this as brief as possible. First, the positive. I agree on a number of points you continue to try and make through your presentations, though I feel your messages gets lost at times. While I disagree on some of your individual theologies, I absolutely agree that we should not separate or castrate any member of the body over them. Cecil Hook discusses the difference between gospel and doctrine in his four-page paper of the same name (http://cecilhook.net/pdf/GOSPEL_AND_DOCTRINE.pdf).

Your opponents should have reached out to you directly before they critiqued you, by name, in public. When you asked Mr. Wallace if he considers you a brother, he answered in the negative. He used the passages from Matthew regarding church discipline as his reason. That broke my heart. He completely misapplies that passage, which clearly addresses dealing with a brother who sinned against you, not just someone who preached theology he does not agree with. If he applies that same logic to all members of his church, he should 'discipline' every member who does not agree.

Concerns About Theological Debates

Shawn, based on your profession of faith in Christ for the forgiveness of sin, and your admission that you follow Him as Your Lord and Savior, I absolutely accept you and love you as a brother in Christ. It broke my heart to see that most of the others could not get past their theological ideologies to say the same to you.

With that said, my friend, I do have a few concerns to express to you, as a viewer of the show, and as a brother in Christ. At the Inquisition, and, to a lesser extent, during the debate with Mr. Wallace a year later, I do not feel you were a gracious host. The guests felt you blind sided them with the title and structure of the first debate. You argued with Wallace stating that you emailed him the details, and proceeded to read the email on air. Nowhere did you detail the structure of the show (the fact that it would be limited in subject, scope and structure), nor did you mention an 'inquisition.' I would have felt offended in their shoes, as the title alone carries negative connotations as the 'accusers.' I grant you that they fired the first volley with their unloving approach to your teachings, but (and I cannot believe I'm saying this), two wrongs do not make a right.

Interactions During The Debate

More importantly, the Bible shows us numerous times not to treat others rudely (I'm sure I do not need to list the scriptures to you). Their actions, while wrong, does not give you a free pass to treat them poorly. I continued to empathize with Mr. Wallace during the question and answer segment of the 2015 show. You and your team allowed the audience, who ardently defended you for the most part, to say whatever they wanted (It was described as a Q&A segment…most of them, however, sermonized or even yelled at him). Certainly, you knew that your family and supporters would comprise the majority of the audience, and you could have predicted to an extent how they might react. It would have shown more grace to keep the conversation between you and him, or qualify the questions from the audience ahead of time (a common tactic in that format just for the very purpose of keeping things on track).

You point out we should not divide and castrate over these theologies. I agree. Jesus made it abundantly clear that we should love one another. When we do reproof a brother, it should be to tenderly bring them in line with God's word… not just to defend ourselves when insulted. To my last point, we cannot expect that kind of response when we aggressively defend instead of guide in love.

Responsibility of Public Speaking

As a public speaker, you should insure the accuracy of your statements before you make them. I understand that you cannot prepare for every contingency, and mistakes are made. Yet, you present nearly all of your statements as if they are complete facts instead of using softer language for things you lack research (e.g. I think XYZ). You apologize for incorrect facts, poor behavior and a few other things, but then you repeat the same sins and issues again (sometimes on the same show).

While no one is perfect, as a public speaker/figure, you must make greater strides in those areas… specifically if you want to lead others closer to God effectively. Whether you recognize it or not, you have become a leader to people, by God's Grace. That carries a weight and responsibility. Teach, not by doctrine, but by loving example. Along those lines…. I recall your earlier shows…where you handled your guests with a lot more grace. And as I revisit your first show, you mention how God gives you love so you can deal with people who are cantankerous. You mention in a Q&A with a guest that the Mormons treat you nicer when expressing different opinions than some Christians.

Watch that show again… and ask how you went from that, to the attitude displayed towards your brethren on the recent shows. Thank you for your time. I know you often ask for those people with concerns to express them to you directly. Hopefully, this works for you… as I would not want to say anything 'behind your back' that I have not addressed with you directly. If you would like

Concerns and Criticisms in Religious Teachings

to talk about these concerns further, either on phone, or over a meal, I would be happy to do so.

By His Grace, Phillip Willis 352.394.4187 jcservant@cyberlightcomics.com

1. This is actually more of a comment. I am so surprised by how much friction Shawn is getting from the Christian community. His idea of hell not being eternal, that god is bigger than a box called "trinity" and that Jesus has already returned are BASED on his study of the bible. He has stated that it is important to study the bible in context, as well as understand the original languages, while asking the holy spirit to lead you to truth. Don't Christians believe in the bible? So what if Shawn's opinions are different. He never said people have to agree with him. He encourages his viewers to study the bible for themselves. Pastor Wallace, I have watched a few of your shows. In one of your recent shows, you compared Shawn to cult leaders. This is unfair. Shawn has never tried to get people to follow him, and he doesn't require people to give money to his ministry.

I think your main grievance is that Shawn doesn't believe in submitting to man, and that his teachings are different that tradition. But when it comes to your soul, would you trust the bible or would you trust your "elder?" Traditions cant save you and they cant answer for you when you stand before god. I like Shawn's teachings because, when it comes to what really matters, he has broken Christianity down to a very simple, clear message.

Faith and Salvation

Salvation through faith alone in Jesus alone. Trust in the word. Use the holy sprit as a guide with support from the bible. Nothing else really matters! Pastor Wallace, please except Shawn's offer of friendship. Why the animosity? So what if you disagree with him? He is a Christian, and should be seen as a brother in Christ. End of rant.

2. Does McCraney believe that Jesus is God and the Father is God and the Spirit is God? And that Jesus is not the Father and the others are not identified with each other? Or does he just disagree with using the word "trinity"? thanks Shawn Denver

3. If I didn't know Wallace was a Pastor, I would have thought he was a Mormon.

4. I am the person who sent an email saying Jason Wallace compared Shawn to cult leaders. I re watched Wallace's shows and he does not do this. I must have misheard him and didn't mean to state things that aren't true. My apologies.

5. GOOD JOB PASTOR SHAWN. HE IS REVEALING THE MIND OF THOSE WHO INTERPRET AS HE DOES, YOU ARE OUTNUMBERED. BUT GREATER IS HE WHO IS IN YOU THAN HE OR [THEY] WHO IS IN THE WORLD. STAND YOUR GROUND, CONTINUE ON YOUR KNEES AND FIGHT LIKE THE MAN CHRIST JESUS HAS AWAKENED YOU TO BE.

Dr. RGRivera South Carolina KEEPING WATCH FROM A DISTANCE. YOUR FRIEND.

Frustrations with Historical Church Teachings

From: Withheld

Subject: LDS frustration

Message Body:

I am so angry at the LDS institution due to the impact it has had on my family and the destruction it has caused.

Just a small observation.

The church denies the White Horse Doctrine because the lack of evidence, (of which there's plenty). yet they promote the "truthfulness" of the BOM despite the absence of ANY (any-any-any) evidence to support it. They (the church leaders) have got to know they are serving up a steaming plate of sugar coated lies.

Watching loved ones engage in willful ignorance is so painful to witness.

Oh, and the true objective of a mission? I think it's less about proselytizing and more about breaking ones spirit.

and that's just the tip of my personal iceberg!

UGH!!!!!!!

name withheld

Thank you so much for you ministry

Bless you

Early Church Missionary Work

From: Launa Williis

Subject: Early Church Missionary Work.

Message Body:

I have been watching the shows on discrepancies in how the church originated and even the evolution of the first vision. I know and taught the polished version for several years from a memorized dialog and my own personal feelings. I have a deep attraction to this romance and to this day I love telling the story with fervor. I don't know if it is true or not but I love the story of it all.

I would like to know what early members of the church were attracted to? What did they use to attract new members back then if not the first vision story? Until now, I thought it was the same "first vision" I taught as a missionary, but that could not have been since it was not distributed.

Understanding the Church and Its Evolution

and probably not fully developed. I guess I thought I was telling the same story Joseph Smith told his family in 1820 without variance. I can see that is not likely and agree a story like that doesn’t get the luxury of developing,

Thanks,
LAURA

From: Jason

Subject: the church (and a random quote)

Message Body:

Hey, I'm the Jason from Owen Sound, Canada. The only reason I'm sending an email is because I would probably forget most of this stuff if I called (and I already have forgotten to mention a thing or two when I did call) but anyways.

1. First off, I want to mention a few things about church (I just want to state here I believe that we as believers are the church, but for the sake of what I am saying, I am putting that here as brackets to make it easier for my thoughts to flow). The closest thing that the New Testament describes as church being a building is when believers met in fellow believers' houses (it would be similar to what we now consider bible studies (I am presuming a bit here), even though they didn’t have bibles at the time). I also wouldn't be surprised if it was in a different house every time. This type of "church" quite a bit different than what we have now.

Examining Matthew 16:18

This next part has to deal with the Matthew 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it". The church nowadays seems to be playing a defensive role, what I mean by that Christians seem content to sit in church every week and wait/hope for a non-believer to walk through the door so that we can convert them. That is not what we were called to do. Gates are not an offensive structure, they are defensive. So when Jesus says that the gates of hell will not prevail, He is saying that we are supposed to go, kick down the gates of hell, take whoever is willing to go and smack Satan on our way out (ok, I know this is weird, but how I really think it is slightly weirder so I'm keeping it rated G).

I am part of the alliance missionary denomination (even though I’m not really one for denominations cause of all the division, strife and headaches they seem to cause from time to time, but the teaching is pretty solid, at least at this one, can’t speak for the others). I started attending this church about 6 years ago, and at the time our pastor was Kendall. Around the time I started attending (it may have been slightly before, but I can’t remember, this was 5-6 years ago), Kendall felt the Lord call him down a different path, so he spent a lot of time praying about it. Kendall eventually went to the church board to let them know what was going on and to see if they would be interested in going along with what he felt God calling him to do. They all spent time praying about it as well and after a while they decided that this was a really good direction to take (they just wanted to make sure that this was really God’s direction and not Kendall going off his rocker).

Church Without Walls

What God was placing on Kendall's heart was to step down as the lead pastor and to start what we call church without walls (CWW). The inspiration for CWW comes from the Book of Acts, having a small group of believers meet in people's homes at different places not only in our city, but in surrounding towns. CWW is a slightly more organized bible study, but far less organized than churches are. They still are loosely tied in with the main church, but it’s more of a supporting each other in whatever ways needed type. Our church's motto (as well as the motto for CWW) is that we are to try to reach all men, women and children with the gospel of Jesus in Grey and Bruce counties. Part of the reasoning for our step in this direction is partially based on what I said earlier about the gates of hell being a defensive structure. We are not wanting to sit around and wait for people, we are going out to get them (basically). God has done some pretty crazy things since we started doing this, for example, people have given their lives to Christ that normally would not have because they would never enter a church building. There are a ton of other crazy things that have gone on, but I don’t know them all, and this has gone on for quite awhile already.

Early Church Experiences

I was going to mention this the other week when I called, but I forgot. When I first started attending church (I hadn't given my life to Christ, that didn't happen until a bit later) I attended a Church of God. It was a really small church. Anyways, one thing I used to tell them quite often as kind of a joke, kind of seriously "you might as well get used to me now cause you will have to put up with me forever". Just thought you might find that kind of funny.

There were a couple of other things I was going to mention, but it is 12:50 in the morning and I can't remember what they were (and I know full well as soon as I hit send I will remember what they were).

Anyways, I hope this all makes sense and sorry for the spelling errors and all that, I'm tired and barely functioning.

End Times Inquiry

Challenge for all who have questions about end times/eternal punishment.

Important Note

WATCH DE SHOWS!