The Christian Walk

Live from Salt Lake City, Utah, this is Heart of the Matter where we do all we can to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. I’m Shawn McCraney, your host.

Show 50 527
The Christian Walk
December 6th 2016

A Grocery Store Analogy

Prayer Announcements

And with that how about our going to the Board of Direction?

(Run BOARD OF DIRECTION HERE)

I apologize to our international viewers for this illustration because it will be best understood by those who live in the US and/or those who have visited the US – and particularly the top end US grocery stores here.

I want you all to go with me to a fine US Grocery store. Not a NYC boedaga or a cheaper chain of markets but to a medium to high end grocery store – a Wegmens, a Publix, a Trader Joes or to one of the larger chain superstores that only display the best of products to their customers in the best of ways. Now walk with me to the fruit and vegetable area of this high end store. There we will see nearly perfect presentations of the vegetable products.

(Go to the Board.)

(llustrated view of the VEGETABLES – CARROTS, BEETS, PEPPERS, and the like.)

Now, I want you to liken this glorious vision of vegetable displays to the way many Evangelicals portray the Bible today. Everything is illuminated, everything is top shelf, and there is no deformity in the group (or there is very very very little is admitted – this is the typical stance) the Bible is near perfect. Got that comparison in your heads? “Near perfect vegetable presentation, near perfect Bible.”

It’s an image that was voiced by our dear friend and brother Matt Slick a few weeks back when he emphatically stated:

“There are NO contradictions in the Bible.”

So liken that to a picture perfect presentation of the best vegetable displays in the finest grocery stores in America.

The Debate of Trust

Okay, let’s now address something I mentioned last week – a debate I recently watched on YouTube.

The opponents? Two men who carry a lot of clout in the world of Christian apologetics – brothers Bart Erhman and James White.

Bart Erhman is among the heavy weights of Christian academia. At 22, went to Princeton Theological Seminary and studied under one of the most esteemed Greek scholars in modern times – the late Bruce Metzger. Erhman gained interest in original languages at Moody Bible College. He then went on to Wheaton where he finished his Bachelors degree before going on to study under Metzger at Princeton, where he first received a Masters of Divinity (under his direction) and then his Phd (under the same). From there he has spent some thirty years studying Greek Manuscripts of the New Testament and today he has authored over twenty books, several that became bestsellers, and a few that are highly controversial in the world of the Christian faith. Presently he sits as a distinguished Professor of Religious studies at University of North Carolina.

Obviously this man is no lightweight when it comes to a scholarly view of the New Testament.

Opposing Dr. Erhman was James White, a noted Christian apologist, relentless debater, and a staunch five point Calvinist. Brother White got his Bachelors degree from Grand Canyon College and a Masters from Fuller Theological Seminary. He currently directs Alpha and Omega Ministries and has authored several books.

Personal Reflections

I must admit that while I admire these two men I also, being the peon that I am, have issue with some of their respective views. In what way?

I honestly find both of their approaches “short sighted and myopic” with neither of them truly working toward a reasonable, rational unity in the faith. I respect Bart Erman’s knowledge of the New Testament and his honesty in revealing what some see as detrimental facts about it, but I disagree with where this vast knowledge has taken him in his personal and public views.

And where I personally admire James White’s devotion to God and Christ – and believe that he truly believes what he believes – I don’t fully appreciate his scholarship nor the way he represents elements of the faith to the world. I know he feels the same way about me. That being said I embrace them both as brothers – yes, even Erhman – and would in no way not associate with them due to these differences.

So there they were – two very capable men full of education, skill and information. The topic they were debating:

“Can the New Testament be trusted?”

Now I am not going…

Examination of the New Testament in Modern Beliefs

to try and cover their presentational materials – both sides had merit and in my estimation both sides have the right to teach and promote their views as they see fit. In my estimation, we can learn from positions right and wrong in our search for knowledge about God and Christ. But what was really intriguing to me was how these two educated and experienced men have ultimately decided to see, represent, and use the New Testament in their lives. From what I could tell, Brother Erhman discounts the Word as having true religious value (and I emphasize "true" because he does see its value in religion and the world – he just doesn’t believe that the value is true).

On the other hand Brother White uses the Word in the other extreme – promoting it (firstly) as "almost" without issue or error and then using it as a law written in stone which to club people over the head who disagree with him. I don’t hold a candle to either of these guys in terms of intelligence or formal education and yet I believe (after watching them) that they have both failed to see the obvious purpose and place of the New Testament in our world today. In my estimation these failings continue to fuel some rather egregious applications and views of the New Testament today and do NOTHING to help the body along. We might think that among all the information and intellect that these men possessed that a light would come on and they would choose to push in toward a middle ground rather than to continue to dig themselves deeper into their respective fox holes while shooting at the enemies they’ve created in their heads.

Impact of Extreme Beliefs

Now, they might argue this observation I’ve made. I’m sure Erhman thinks he’s doing something good – bringing truth to the world about the New Testament. And I’m sure that White thinks he is actually defending the truth – all in God’s Sovereign name, of course, and that God is being honored. But again, my astonishment is that neither of these intelligent men have seen how myopic and divisive their use of the New Testament really is! I mean Bart Erhman obviously possess a lot of straight-up facts about the New Testament that are not so flattering. But by and through his scholarship he could have led the Body into a new way of seeing, understanding and applying the New Testament contents today. Unfortunately and instead, brother Erhman has decided to pretty much malign the New Testament (and therefore this wonderful faith) to the point that he now calls himself an agnostic.

That’s a devastating blow to the faith – when a man who, possessing the facts of the New Testament, publicly becomes an agnostic. But listen – there’s a good reason behind Erhman’s current stance – and in my estimation the majority of the fault lies at the feet of men (like Brother White) and the way THEY have presented the Gospel to the World (and to men like Bart Erhman) when he was a young Christian.

Origin of Bart Erhman’s Disillusionment

See, brother Erhman was once a self-professed Christian fundamentalist. I mean, the boy believed the rhetoric! It was his ardent faith that led him to pursue his course of study – but before doing so he trusted that the Word of God was infallible, uncorrupted, and without any serious error. The message White and those like him continue to preach. To him Erhman the New Testament was The Word of God with a capital T and if God inspired the original manuscripts (and they were perfect), then God would and could inspire the manuscript copies that followed to create the Bibles we hold in our hands today.

To tie his views of the Bible to my illustration, Bart saw the New Testament the way we might see the vegetables on the board – large, perfect, orderly, without any real issues, basked in light and ready to be consumed for their wonderful taste and nutritional values. So a young Bart embarked on what he probably at time thought was going to be a truly rewarding and devoted life to the Lord. Instead he experienced what we are seeing (more and more of in the world) and what we are warning people about everywhere . . . a rude awakening. What I mean by this is "compared to what Bart was TAUGHT the New Testament to be and what he discovered it to be first hand," Bart had a very rude awakening.

The Rude Awakening

Awakening.

So rude that brother Bart is now an admitted humanist/agnostic. What helped push Erhman into this rude awakening? The approach and views of guys like James White on the other side of the stage. Who have presented the New Testament just like America’s best grocers present their vegetable displays – in a near perfect light. And Bart believed that this was the ONLY viable way vegetables – the Bible – could be seen.

In other words Erhman was plied with an inauthentic presuppositional view of the New Testament – one contrary to all reality – which Erhman rudely discovered when he personally went and examined the way vegetables look . . . closer to the farm, at the food distributors, in other countries, and organically. And what did he find?

That the sanitized, large perfectly shaped GMO-laden Bible presentations today are a misrepresentation. They’re not based in reality. The reality Erhman discovered was vegetables today, without genetic manipulations from men, without the lights, the wax, the beads of cool water, are actually very different – depending on where they came out of the earth. That beets in China look very different from beets in the US, and natural carrots right out of the ground can be smallish, twisted, and multi-formational.

Diverse Presentations of the New Testament

These similarities he also found in the texts of the New Testament. Instead of a perfect presentation he found a litany of conflict – even contradiction. The product was twisted, of varied shapes and sizes, and often in conflict with what he supposed should have been . . . with what men like White had taught him. This caused him to ask: “If God gave the New Testament by perfect inspiration in the first place, WHY wouldn’t, why couldn’t God keep the New Testament in that same state over the centuries?”

I would humbly suggest that it’s because the New Testament wasn’t written to us. It was written to them. They had the perfect presentation because those letters were for them in their day. We have received the variants, the diversity of presentations, the twisted multi-formational vegetables – but here’s the deal – LISTEN CLOSELY – these forms all bear the exact same nutritional value and taste as good as the originals – and therefore they have all the same value to us spiritually – they just don’t physically look as good as they did back in the day. Get it.

Just because a carrot is smaller or twisted or has several roots does not mean it is lesser than the beautifully shaped. All the same nutrients and taste remains – by the Spirit. The gist of the message is there – that’s all we need.

Dr. Erham, having been taught principles like “sola scriptura” and “the infallibility of the Word,” was rudely awakened when the facts proved otherwise, but he seems to now completely ignore the fact that our present-day versions contain all the same nutritional elements (and taste equivalents) of the original manuscripts– because we understand the word BY the Spirit and not through direct physical appearances.

The Impact of Expectations

In the end, it was Erhman’s expectations (that he was taught by men like White) that were proved untrue – expectations that he was handed by Man and not from his direct study of the Bible itself. When I endeavored to teach the Bible verse by verse over a decade ago, and just using the Greek in a very “minor league” fashion because that is all that I am capable of doing, I could see that the Bible was not what I had been taught it was. And I wasn’t raised in American Evangelicalism!

Fortunately for me, my faith was established spiritually well before the Bible ever played a role in my walk. As a result, I am able to actually cherish the Word today for its taste, fiber, and nutritional values – without being presuppositionally married to it as a word-perfect tome.

Having been burned, brother Erhman is understandably more than twice shy – and he now writes best-selling books for people who use his views of the New Testament as justification to reject the faith. I don’t blame him. It’s the reaction we see in the LDS who choose to see the facts.

I am sorry about Brother Erhman – not sorry for – sorry about. I think he’s going to be okay. He’s not preaching lies any more than James White is teaching lies. He’s actually telling the truth as he sees it and we have to admire his courage to continue in his own path of understanding.

Examining Interpretations of the Bible

But what is truly most unfortunate about Erhman is he is like a man who as a child was taken to a high-end store and taught, “this is what vegetables look like,” only to discover for himself that, in reality, they can and do throughout most of the world look very different. Unfortunately, he now refuses to eat them at all.

Had our boy genius been taught that the Bible was never intended to be what men have made it to be, and that the God who inspired the original writers to write did not inspire and direct the hands of the thousands who copied and translated it – we might have a different Bart Erhman in our midst. This brings us to Erhman’s opponent in the debate, James White. I’m not going to talk as much about White. We meet and see White’s all the time. They are the enforcers of Bible allegiance. They are no different than the LDS leaders who stand up publicly and defend LDS history.

He represents all the men and women in the faith who take the book and instead of feeding on its gist and spiritual values make it law; who promote and describe the New Testament in terms of near-perfect vegetables. Having taken this stance they feel justified in demanding that all people comply with their views and understanding of it presentations.

Contrasting Perspectives

I feel sorry about Brother White – not for him – he’s gonna be okay and as stated, I think he really truly believes he is performing an important role in the Body. He may be. In reality, the major differences between White and Erhman were how each man interprets and responds to the facts that Erhman proves – one chooses to see the facts in terms of possibilities and the other chooses to see them as impossibilities. And people can do this from here to the next millennium. This is where I want to throw my little skull cap into the ring.

The Opportunity for Harmony

I believe both of these mental giants are missing a remarkable opportunity to bring followers of Christ (and seekers of truth) into harmony with a new, reiterated view of the New Testament. White (and those of his ilk) might step down from their stance that the New Testament is “nearly perfect” and that it is more of a map and gift than a book of Laws. Just say it, dammit. Teach our children this point. Prepare them for the facts that will come out in their lives if and when they look.

But on the other hand, the Erhman’s of our day might start realizing that just because the mss evidence we have doesn’t look like a top-shelf vegetable presentation, the mss provide us with all the same nutritional and taste values of the originals – though we can’t prove it – except by our own subjective experiences with and around it. From here we might be able to proceed forward into a future of the faith that is reasonable, fair, and worth retaining. A faith that is savory and delicious and nutritious – just not as pretty as men have tried to make it look.

Discussing the Christian Walk

Alright . . . So we’ve talked about God. Jesus. Holy Spirit. Satan. Creation. We’ve talked about Adam and Eve. The Fall. Atonement. A few months ago, we started talking about the Good News and then we launched into a discussion about how this Good News is received – by God forcing us to receive it or because we choose to receive it.

At this point, this leads us to a conversation about the Christian walk – about our approach to it, its purpose, and how it is emphatically described in scripture. We are going to wrap the year up in discussion about this concept. And I am going to use one of these shapes to help us understand the whole of Christian salvation and purpose. We’ll do this through our use of the Board.

You may know by now that I think in terms of conceptual shapes. The very first shape that came to me hit me years ago when I was sitting in a Mexican restaurant in Huntington Beach CA pondering (I think it was a Christmas or New Year's Eve) I was trying to understand Christianity as a whole and to capture the basic plan of salvation in a form.

Understanding Salvation and Human Creation

Salvation as a Latter-Day Saint – and I wondered if there was one out there that would help me illustrate salvation and God’s purpose for it from a Christian perspective. I’ve shared this before but it bears repeating in my estimation. So I thought about Man and the Fall, and being made in God’s image, and all sorts of things like that. And I asked the waiter for more nice white napkins (which are excellent for drawing upon) and I started scribbling away.

I thought about how God created Man in His own image. I wondered if that meant anthropomorphically (as I was taught by the LDS) or if it meant we were created after Him in some other ways. I took out a napkin. I took out my Bible. I read and I sketched. I crossed out, tossed, started over. Toss. Yuck. Toss. I read in Genesis 2:7

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

Dust + breath of God = Living soul.

The Three Parts of Man

I saw three parts playing a part in the construction of the first Man – clay that made his body. The pneuma or breath of God breathed into his nostrils of clay, and then Man became a living soul. And so I wrote them on the napkin, in order of purity, and stared at them.

SPIRIT
SOUL
BODY

I quickly saw that Man was three in one, and thought immediately about the Trinity. But I also wondered about the three parts of Man reflecting God’s representations to Man over the course of human history – meaning God reaching down in Spirit, then in body, and then thriving in the soul. I also wondered if we were created in his image through communicable attributes, that human beings possess the very same attributes of God – reason, will, mind, choice, desires for justice, desires to create and reign. I was sure these things were true but couldn’t get away from the thought that our One God would reach and relate to us in three distinct ways and that there was something to that in the way Man was created by Him.

So there on my napkin were the components of created Man:

ON BOARD
3rd Spirit
2nd Soul
1st Body

Greek Understanding of Human Parts

I happened to be studying the Greek at that time and noted on the napkin that they had separate words for these three English terms. They were

3rd Spirit (pneuma)
2nd Soul (psuche)
1st Body (sarx)

And I learned what those words meant to the Greeks – especially the word Psuche – it was defined as the mind will and emotion of a human being. The way it looked is that God first created Man out of clay (which was to be his body – sarx). Then God breathed his breath (pneuma) into the nostrils of the clay and man became – due to the combination of God’s breath with the clay – a living soul, a being with a mind, and a will, and emotions.

“So far so good,” I thought. And apparently so did God. He allowed this finished creation of Man to abide- having all the faculties necessary to thrive in the garden and to relate to God. He was made alive by the Spirit. He was thriving in a body of clay and he had his own mind, his own will and his own emotions.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

When Adam ate the fruit did he die? He surely did – in THAT day. But how? Not physically (Adam lived to be 930 years old) but IN THAT day Adam died Spiritually. And he was banished from the presence and the direct in-house life with God. God moved out of Adam because Adam, of his own will and choice, sinned.

SPIRIT
SOUL
BODY

This illustration represents fallen man, spiritually dead man, men and women who Jesus said, must be born again (from above).

Life in the Fallen Human World

Illustrates life in the fallen human world, the life all of us are born into from the womb – spiritually dead and possessing fallen bodies (bodies that get sick and die) and twisted unregenerate souls (minds, wills, and emotions). So again, here is an illustration of Adam:

Fallen Man Characteristics

(ON BOARD)

SPIRIT
SOUL
BODY
. . . unified and working as one

And fallen Man:

SPIRITUALLY DEAD (separated from)
SOUL?BODY

All people on this earth, prior to being regenerated from above (born-again) are BI PARTITE BEINGS – operating only on two parts of their three-part potentiality. The fallen man lives by his sarx (his flesh) and by his psuche (defined as his fallen mind, will, and emotion).

Fallen man says:

I think I want to do this. (Mind)

Fallen man says:

I feel like doing that (emotion)

Fallen man says:

“I will do it (will)

And then his or her body follows through with the action. Again, for this reason, Jesus said a man must be born from above to even see the Kingdom of heaven. I take this to mean that fallen men and women are blinded to the things of God and there will remain until born spiritually from above.

There on my napkin I broke my man up in the following ways:

Spirit
Soul
Body

At this point, I labeled the areas of the body and soul the Realm of Happiness. Why did I call it this? Because I believe ardently that whatever people do in this area – whether it is determined good or evil – act and thrive in these areas because such things make them most happy or satiated in their lives.

Actions and Consequences

And then I decided that in the Realm of Happiness that there were actions people take that bring deleterious consequences and actions that bring productive consequences. And so I put the Realm of Happiness into quadrants and marked them with a (-) side and with a (+) side. Again, I am personally convinced that whatever people do in these areas suits them best in their quest for personal satisfaction, whether their behaviors produce negative or positive consequences.

We also note that whatever is done in the Realm of Happiness – good or bad – productive or destructive – those who accomplish such things are still abiding in a fallen state – and that all of their actions are the product of self and not God by the spirit.

Let’s wrap tonight up by giving some examples of the actions and activities some take in these respective areas of the fallen human existence.

Spirit
DEAD

Life in the Realm of Happiness

Soul

• Gang warfare

• Antisocialism

• Vandalism

• Crime

• Terrorism

• Abusive Gaming

  Organized Religion

• Education

• Social Services

• Volunteerism

• Occupations

• Hobbies

• Coaching

• Teaching

Body

• Illicit Sexual Deviancy
• Drug / Alcohol Abuse
• Violence
• Gluttony
• Poor Nutrition
• Self Harm
• Athletics
• Nutrition
• Exercise
• Sports
• Medical Checkups
• Healthy Sexual Relationships

(-) (+)

Got all that? From this, we note a couple of things:

• No matter what, all these actions and activities are still accomplished in the fallen spiritually dead world.
• Some things bring about painful consequences and some bring about productive consequences. This is not a judgement of evil or good, just on the consequences.
• I suggest (and this is greatly contested) but I suggest that all

The Pursuit of Happiness

People are engaged in the actions and activities that bring them the greatest amount of happiness (which is why I call it the realm of happiness). I don’t care if someone is shooting heroine or getting a PhD they are pursuing and choosing what brings them the greatest amount of overall pleasure. I say overall pleasure. So this is where we stand thus far on the form. We’ll continue on next week with more which in the end will help us understand the Christian walk better.

Communication

Let’s open up the phone lines:

(801) 590-8413

SPOT HERE

Emails

From: Kathy Masters
Subject: episode 446 limited atonement
Message Body:
Shawn, excellent rebuttal. I have another flaw with Matt's analogy of coma man "rejecting" the debt payoff. Jesus did pay the debt for everyone, but all through His ministry, He placed a major caveat on those who could claim the gift. Just as banks require permission from the debtor for others to access his account, Jesus requires active permission from us in the form of belief in Him, repentance, and confession that He is Lord. So: no permission, no debt payoff.

“but you were not willing.”
“but you would not”

Feedback on Systematic Theology

From: Elton
Subject: Systematic Theology
Message Body:
Hey bud I think that you were a little hard on Systematic Theology. I have read a lot of systematic Theology and I have never read an actual opinion that writer had. Not to say that is not out there. But true Systematic Theology is the summary of all Bible verses on one subject such as sin, Love, Resurrection etc.

And then the logical textbook conclusion of what it's saying.

Furthermore, Systematic Theology has been one of the main tools to refute Cults and Heretics throughout the ages. Don't get me wrong there are definitely a lot of corrupt liberal theologians that will for instance say that right here where it says Jesus rose from the dead that is Figurative language. And there are many study bibles such as John MacArthur. (Not picking on him) that will take Systematic Theology and give their own spin or interpretation on it.

But pure Systematic Theology is sound. Not trying to bust your balls too bad I love your show and your ministry keep it up. Sorry for grammar and punctuation. By the way the part of the Contact us Section on your Website the "your Message" part sucks. L.o.L. make it bigger. God bless and good

Great insights and clarity. Which can be absent from my ramblings.