With Respect and Love Dr. White, You’ve Got It Wrong

Examining the Teachings of Jesus and the Trinity

So listen, next week Sarah Young is going to sit and grill me on what I teach, why, heresies, apostacies and my being a cult leader. There I am going to lay out why I generally teach and believe whatever she throws my way. It will not be planned or curated as we are going to sit cold and she is going to go after what we are really all about here. It should be really good as Sarah does not pull punches and will throw down. Tonight, I am going to get specific because the topic requires it.

Last week we did a short show called, “Jesus the Deceiver” and explained how the conversation Jesus had with the scribe in Mark chapter 12 clearly shows that Jesus defined His Father as the One God, and this cast a shadow on the man-made teaching of the Trinity – of which I am not a big fan. There was some kick-back to that show with one brother saying that “all cult leaders deny the deity of Christ.” Another response was that “I am unable to explain the blasphemy charge the Jews had against Jesus when they were going to stone Him when He claimed to be the I Am,” and another was that I cannot get around when Thomas called Jesus His Lord and God after His resurrection.

Deity of Christ and the Trinity

Relative to the Thomas reference, Dr. James White, in a debate with Dr. Anthony Buzzard about the Trinity, said this account from Thomas “cannot be touched,” meaning this it irrefutably proves the Trinity. With respect and love, Dr. White, you have got this wrong. This show tonight is to prove how. But for starters, I do NOT – I do NOT deny the deity of Jesus Christ – so please change that in your criticisms of me. Secondly, when Jesus said to the Jews that “if they did not believe that He was the I Am they would die in their sins,” I agree with this statement from Him wholeheartedly and believe and teach that Jesus was, “I Am” (in flesh) and if they did not believe that they would did in their sins. But I think my explanation of Jesus interaction with Thomas will help explain the way I understand Jesus as the I AM better.

In any case, the short answer is I do believe in the Deity of Christ and I do believe that He is the I Am. But these passages (and situations) do not “a Trinity prove,” meaning all the boxes that define the Trinity cannot be checked due to these verses. Before I get to explaining Thomas declaration of Jesus as His Lord and God after His resurrection, which again, brother White says “cannot be touched when it comes to supporting the doctrine of the Trinity,” I want to make something else clear which has also been a criticism of me and that is this –

Views on Trinitarianism and Fellowship

Because I speak and teach what I believe is true and biblical, and because I do so with passion (and sometimes even criticism of other views (like Trinitarianism) this in NO WAY WHATSOEVER should be interpreted as my rejecting Trinitarians as my brothers and sisters, nor does it mean that I would not fellowship with them, or love them or embrace them fully as Christian. Ever. Anyone who associates with me can conform this. This attitude carries over to my approach to Mormonism, Catholicism, Calvinism or any other ist or ism – I will ALWAYS teach what I believe is true, and I will forever challenge these institutions and institutions like them, but I would NEVER EVER condemn someone as being lesser of a Christian because they embrace them.

So again, just because I think I can prove that Brother James White is wrong in his exegesis of scripture relative to Thomas, does NOT mean in any way that I see him as LESS of a Christian or brother or would treat him different personally than any other person I encounter.

Okay . . . and I cannot thank my Online Brother Kel, a Canadian, for his insights and wisdom on this subject. Iron sharpens iron and he has done a great deal to help me understand the scripture. I borrow from Him tonight. Our passage in question tonight,

Understanding John 20:28

John 20:28 provides a fantastic insight into the nature of Christ and serves as an indictment against the Trinity. It takes time, work, and perspective to begin to see it. That is my job – your job is to hear what I have to say and test it by the Word and the Spirit to see if it is true or not. The Trinitarian view of John 20:28, and Thomas expressing that Jesus is his Lord and God, reveals a very limited view on the part of our Trinitarian brothers and sisters.

I want to read just the passage by itself, which is how Trinitarians must take it – by itself. Ready? It’s really short.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Yeshua, “My Lord and my God.” Upon reading this statement, most Christians will say, “this supports the Trinity which says that God is made up of a Father, a Son, and a Holy Spirit that are uncreated, co-equal, and co-eternal.” I am going to prove to you, God willing, that instead, this passage supports the true understanding of what scripture calls, “God and His Christ.”

Now, just before Thomas’s profession in verse 28, many people ignore that Jesus said to Mary Magdalene in verse 17:

John 20:17 Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

And then a few verses later in the same chapter, John tells us why he writes this Gospel, saying:

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is “the second person of the man-made Trinity?” NO. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is “the Christ, the Son of God” and that believing ye might have life through his name.” Wouldn’t these simple verses – one before John 20:28 and one after – cause us, the reader, to ask, “what am I missing here? Why are these messages so mixed in my mind and heart?”

The Myopic Mistake in Interpretation

Again, and in the minds of Trinitarians, what Thomas says here is perhaps one of the best evidences for their “three persons one God creation” – when Thomas, again, identifies Jesus as “God.” They put so much emphasis on this that when people are presented with it, without any real context, they readily assume and accept all the teachings that Trinitarians add to it. Do we really see the Trinity, and all that it demands, supported here?

Let’s look at the myopic mistake Trinitarian scholars make when interpreting John 20:28 and how this mistake has led billions of people to be misled by this interpretation, which ultimately lends to them failing to best know “the True and Living God and His Son whom He has sent.”

When we read John 20:28, where Thomas said, “My Lord and my God,” Trinitarians point out that Thomas said this to Jesus. To Him. So, it's very clear to them that Thomas is identifying Jesus as His God. Sometimes you will also hear them speak about what Jesus said back to Thomas in the next verse, which reads:

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Seeing and Believing

And the big point is that if Thomas was wrong, Jesus did not correct him – so therefore Thomas was right. And guess what? Thomas was right! Huh? He was absolutely correct in his statement but it took Thomas a long time to get here. I’ll explain.

First notice where Jesus says: “because you have seen me you have believed. Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” What is the CONTEXT of these passages – verses 28-29 – they are all about SEEING and BELIEVING. The disciples had SEEN Jesus but Thomas wasn’t there when this happened. They saw that he was risen from the dead, but Thomas said, “I’m not gonna believe this unless I see Jesus – with the marks in his hands and side.”

So, let’s read through the passages (which again, ARE ALL ABOUT SEEING AND BELIEVING) and we will begin at verse 24. You will soon see that John 20:28 is surrounded by the context of SEEING and BELIEVING.

Seeing and Believing in John's Gospel

The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Context of Seeing and Believing

Jesus had taught about seeing and believing in John’s gospel well before we get to John 20:28 and Thomas’s expression. Also note that John 20:28 is near the end of the Gospel of John. What this means is that by the time we get here in our reading of John’s account we ought to have some understanding from the passages we have already read, right? We don’t just pick up John, open it to chapter 20, go to verse 28, and expect that passage to reveal an eternal truth without context.

Teachings of Jesus on Seeing and Believing

So what has Jesus been saying and teaching all through John’s gospel about seeing and believing? What was Thomas missing in his understanding as he was being trained by Jesus? And what does Thomas realize when he calls Jesus His Lord and His God here in chapter 20 verse 28? All through John’s account Jesus has given specific teachings about seeing and believing. Go back to Chapter 12:44-45 and listen to what Jesus says:

44 Jesus cried and said, He that believes in me, believeth not on me, but in him that sent me. 45 And he that sees me sees him who sent me.

Do you see what that second passage means? To see Jesus (the Lord) is to see the Father (who is God). Don’t lose track of this. To believe in Jesus is to believe in the Father. That’s because to see Jesus is to see the Father. This is what Jesus says! And do you know what he is saying? He is saying that to see Him (Jesus) is not to see just one person, but to see two. Again – to see Jesus is not to see just one person, but to see two! Thomas expresses this in John 20:28! Again, Jesus teaches that if “you see Him, you also see someone else – the Father. Not one person, two!!

Jesus as the Expression of the Father

How is this possible? Because Jesus is the Logos of the Father made flesh. The Father's very words made flesh! And as such He alone expresses the Father, in all that He said and did! That is what words do – they express! That is why in this light (and not the Trinitarian light), we read all the way back in Isaiah 9:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Do you see? Can you hear? And as the Father's Word, Jesus expresses the Father. Therefore, to see Him (the Lord Yeshua) is to see the Father (God). No one has ever seen the One God (the Father) but we are told in the Gospel of John. “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he expresses him.” (John 1:18)

Jesus is the expression of The Father. That is why He says, “If you see me you have seen the Father. Again – listen – to see Jesus is not to see just one person, it is to see two – Jesus and His Father, who scripture repeatedly calls the One God. Let’s now look at John 14. Here we see something very similar taught by Jesus in John 12:44-45. What is so fascinating about this teaching is that it too, involves Thomas. Jesus began this teaching by saying, “Don’t let your heart be troubled. Believe in God and also believe in

Understanding the Connection Between Jesus and the Father

Why would Jesus say “also here?” In any case, Jesus says something similar in John 17:3 in a prayer to the Father when he said:

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Jesus is the way to the Father, and He was going away to the Father and the disciples were sad by this revelation. Here he explains why they do not need to be troubled. Yes, He was going away to the father, but he knows He will be raised. But the disciples are troubled because they want to be with Jesus. And Jesus is going to explain to them that they have no need to worry.

So, what we are about to read is yet another teaching on SEEING and BELIEVING, and it includes, by name, Thomas. To see Him means to see the father. To believe in Him means to believe in the Father. To know Him is to know the father because He IS the very expression of the Father. So at John 14:5 we read:

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Jesus is talking about coming to His Father in our lives now. And that we have access to the Father through Him. And he says to Thomas (listen closely to what He says to THOMAS) 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:

Knowing Jesus and Knowing the Father

Again, if you had known one, you would have known two – if you would have known me, the Lord, the Word of God made flesh, you would have known the One God, my Father, who no man can see. Now listen to what Jesus says TO THOMAS . . . from now on, from henceforth, ye know him, and have seen him. Remember we read that no man has seen the Father? Right. But here Jesus tells Thomas, “. . . from now on, from henceforth, ye know him, and have seen him.”

And remember, Jesus has said, “if you have seen me, you have seen the Father (God).” So here he directly tells Thomas, well before the upper room meeting, “from now on, YOU, THOMAS, know HIM (God the Father) and have SEEN Him (GOD THE FATHER).” Does this mean Jesus is God the Father? Not at all. But it means that in and through Jesus Thomas can see the Lord and God. He is our access to Him. Verse 8:

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet you have not come to know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and can you say then, Show us the Father?

The Oneness of Jesus and the Father

Can you see from all of this what Thomas was actually professing to in chapter 20 verse 28? Does the context now open your eyes to these things? Jesus continues and says:

10 Do you not believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that abides in me, he does the works.

Jesus is explaining what Thomas is expressing in John 20:28 – TO SEE JESUS is TO SEE the Father, because He is abiding in the Father and the Father is abiding in Him. And then he goes on to teach Thomas and the disciples that even though he is going away He is coming back, but NOT only Him but the Father as well. And He says, “We will come to make our abode with you.” He is teaching them that to see Him is not to see just One person but TWO – and in this we see a clear line as to how Jesus is the way to the Father. If we know Jesus, we know the Father because Jesus is the Fathers expression from Himself (as the Fathers Logos or very word).

Now at verse 19-20 of chapter 14 Jesus says to them something really important relative to His resurrection. He says:

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, (meaning His resurrection)

The Resurrection and Understanding

20 At that day (what day?– the day of His resurrection) ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. In the resurrection, which is the setting of John 20:28, Jesus is telling them that they would know. But Thomas, up until that day, lived in doubt. Again, Jesus is clearly teaching that He is in the Father and the Father in in Him and in the day of His resurrection they would KNOW this. Remember, what He has already said: “he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and can you say then, Show us the Father? Do you not believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that abides in me, he does the works.”

Seeing Jesus and Seeing God

What is the sum of all of this, then? “If they have seen Jesus, they have seen His father, who is God,” AND THAT “in the day of his resurrection, they will KNOW that He was in His Father and His Father was in Him.” This is what would finally LEAD Thomas to call Yeshua, in that day, Lord and God. Not some profession of a Trinity. But merely the profession that to see the One was to see TWO. We now can see, from CONTEXT, that he was testifying, at that moment and for himself, that to see Jesus was to see God the Father – and that he understood this now. At his resurrection all the teaching in John came together.

Thomas' Revelation

So let’s now go back and read John 20, where Jesus has resurrected, it was “that day,” and Thomas was about to both “see,” and “believe.” Ready? John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side, and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (meaning that to seeing the One was to see Two) 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

This profession in NO way supports the Trinity. It supports all that Jesus taught, which is that there is One God, the Father, that He was the Word or Logos of the One God, that He was the Way to the Father, and to see Him was to see not one but two – Yeshua the Lord and God (his Father). May the Spirit of our living God, even the Father, who was in the expressed image of His Son, the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, bring this to your heart and reveal their identities to you, which is life eternal.