Heart of the Matter: A Meeting of Faiths

“LIVE FROM THE MECCA OF MORMONISM”

• SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH –

This is Heart of the MatterTGNN’s original show where Shawn McCraney deconstructed religion and developed fulfilled theology., where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity, face to face. Show 20 BOM 46 – Sidney Rigdon

And I’m your host, Shawn McCraneyFounder of TGNN and developer of the fulfilled perspective—calling people to faith outside of religion.. We praise the True and Living God for allowing us to participate in this ministry. May He be with you (and us) tonight.

We meet every week for Church. Go to www.C-A-M-P-U-S.com for information. CAMPUS stands for Christian Anarchists Meeting to Prayerfully Understand Scripture. Why Christian Anarchists? Because we believe there needs to be a serious deconstruction of how church is done in this day and age. A Christian Anarchist is nothing more than a devoted follower of King Jesus, not of modern-day Christiandom. Join us.

New Gatherings and Bible Study

Two things we are doing lately through CAMPUS. First, we are adding another Sunday gathering beginning June 3rd. We’re calling it Mayhem and it is for the young people 16 to 25 years old. 7-9pm Sunday beginning June 3rd.

Then, beginning Monday, June 12th – MONDAY June 12th – we are going to start a women’s Bible study. WHERE: In the backroom of the downtown Denny’s Restaurant, located at 250 West and 500 South in Salt Lake City. Now, we will always have a male believer present to ensure public safety but that Denny’s is a great location because it is easy freeway access. The class will be taught by a seasoned teacher and we think it will be a wonderful opportunity to learn the basics of how the Bible is constructed and then in subsequent studies, what it contains. Do yourselves a favor, ladies – come join our never-denominational Bible study just for women MONDAY NIGHTS, beginning June 12th from 7-9 pm at the Salt Lake City downtown Denny’s. Go to www.hotm.tv for more information.

Alathea Products Summer Promotion

Okay, we want to let you know about our “Summer Promotion of Alathea Products” which we’re doing so we can. . . get more of these important products in your hands so you can either use them yourselves or pass them along to interested family and friends. Now we are at war with a billion-dollar-a-year multinational religious marketing machine and the ONLY thing we’ve got is truthful information. . . but it just may be information that will someday help drop this behemoth.

So what’s the Great Promotion of Products? We are offering FIVE fine products in a package at a greatly reduced price! Ready? You get a copy of “I Was a Born-Again Mormon,” (retail price of $12.99) A copy of “If/Then” (retail price of $9.99) A copy of our Newest book “Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity Face to Face” (retail price of $28.00) A copy of the professionally filmed docudrama, An American President (retail price of $25.00) And . . . and one of the best products you could EVER give to an LDS person or family, “In His Words” (which has a retail value of $15.00) . . . That’s a total retail value of over $100.00 musty clams! And we’re offering them out to you for ANY donation of $50.00 or more. We think this is a win/win for all involved. Want more information? Go to www.hotm.tv and check out our store. You’ll see the offer there.

So again, that’s . . . “Born-Again Mormon” “If My Kingdom Were of this World Then My Servants Would Fight” “Where Mormonism Meets Biblical Christianity Face to Face” “A Mormon President” and seventeen passages of scripture put to music in a CD all for ANY donation of $50.00 or more. . . Go to www.hotm.tv and click on.

Insights from John Chapter Five

How about a moment, “From the Word?” We're still in John chapter five. The chapter ends with Jesus saying something insightful to the Jews about Moses. In verse 45 He said:

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

There is quite a bit of information included here that we could discuss but in light of the Mormon/Christian debate I just want to focus on one point often lost upon the LDS. The purpose of Prophets “like unto Moses.”

Jesus and the Testimony of Prophets

Few verses before where Jesus said:

“Search the scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life but they testify of me!”

Here the Lord is essentially saying the same thing. Search the scriptures . . .

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

The purpose and point of prophets of Old were to testify as to the character and person of the coming Messiah. All of them fulfilled this purpose from Moses, who wrote the Tanak, to Samuel, David, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Hosea, and the like.

When Jesus circulated among His brethren (the Jews) He told them how these prophets' purpose was to testify of Him – and to read the scriptures to discover His identity. Also, when walking the earth, He called twelve witnesses to testify of His works, teachings, and resurrection firsthand.

Foundation of the Church

All of these witnesses who provided written testaments of Him form the foundation upon which the Lord would build His church, with Him being the Chief cornerstone. This is the imagery Paul makes (in Ephesians 2:19-22) to Gentile believers, who were once excluded from the Good News:

“Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”

It is plain from this passage that prophets like unto Moses prophesied of Jesus to come (as reported in the Old Testament) and His apostles wrote of His arrival and fulfillment of prophecy (in the New Testament). And it is upon this foundation Jesus now builds His church of believers.

Role of Prophets

Hebrews 1:1-2 tells us plainly the role “of Prophets like unto Moses” today, saying:

Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.

In face of passages like this (and many, many others like them in scripture) we can safely, and out of respect for God Almighty call them what they are – false.

Alright, before we go to prayer, last week we reported that a recent study of Religious growth in America stated that since 2000 Mormonism grew by 45%, making it the fastest growing church in America. This percentage was incorrect.

Salt Lake Tribune reporter Peggy Fletcher Stack reports: “If you suspected the newly released U.S. Religion Census overstated the LDS Church’s growth rate, you were right. That’s because, this time around, the Utah-based faith changed the way it reported its membership to the researchers.” LDS Church spokesman Scott Trotter acknowledge that in past years LDS membership figures reported to the census researchers "were understated."

“For those years,” he said, “the LDS Church left out numbers of members who, although baptized, were not currently associated with a specific congregation. This year, we included total membership numbers to more accurately reflect all of those found on church records."

Fletcher Stack added: “The LDS Church does not remove any name from the list unless the person is excommunicated, asks to be removed or is dead. That means that a large number of members remain on the rolls who no longer attend or even consider themselves to be Mormon.” Translated? Abandon ship folks! Get your names off the records and send a message loud and clear to those suits sitting up there in their North Temple tower – “We’re not going to be used in any way any more by the Mormon machine.”

What was really intriguing about the Religious census, however, is that though the percentages changed significantly when the LDS church fessed up to altering the way they were reporting, Islam (which did grow by 61%) and Mormonism, did grow faster than any other religious sect.

We suggest views go back to our online archives and review our 192 show which aired in November of 2009. There we compared Mormonism and Islam. But one of our viewers, Chris, recently sent us an email pointing out some points worth seeing tonight. This is what he said:

“Depending on how you count it, there's at least 19 notable similarities between Islam and Mormonism, almost as

Similarities Between Mormonism and Islam

If they are inspired by the same (false) spirit.

• Both forbid consuming alcohol.

• Both embrace multiple heavens, which Jesus overseeing or not being in the highest. According to the Muslim Hadiths, Jesus is in the 2nd of 7 heavens and according to Mormon scriptures Jesus will reign in the 2nd of 3 heavens.

• Both endorse polygamy. Joseph Smith actually had around 30 more wives than Mohammed. (By the way when they took out Osama bin Laden he had five).

• Both afterlife views includes sex in glories of paradise or the celestial kingdom. Polygamous sex too.

• Both were founded (or reinstituted, in the view of their believers) by one prophet, who was both a religious and political leader, who was (supposedly) foretold of in the Bible, who failed to appoint a successor, and who failed to raise up a son to fill his shoes.

• Both claim a final or new dispensation of prophecy, (in which) the founding prophet was the focal point. Muslims revere Mohammed as The Prophet, Mormons still call Joseph The Prophet.

Views on Sacred Texts

• Both claim that the Bible has been significantly altered / corrupted, and resulting in the loss of many plain and precious things.

• Both claim to know what the original, incorrupt Bible said and where it supposedly differs with the modern Bible.

• Both focus on the fact that there are many "lost books" not included in the Bible.

• Both reference writings that Christianity does not possess from both Abraham and Moses.

• Both claim that people will lose power in their respective lands or nations if they act unrighteously, thereby making worldly power a measure of righteousness.

• Both possess extra biblical books (Islam the Koran/Mormonism three extra standard works) full of style over substance, verbosity, poeticism, and repetition. Both have books they call the MOST CORRECT BOOKS ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

Historical and Doctrinal Adaptations

• Both Muslims and Mormons are guilty of abrogation, which means adding, removing or otherwise altering one's own scriptures over time, especially to fit changing political purposes.

• Both revise history to meet their objectives. Notably, Islam teaches that all the Biblical prophets were Muslims; and Mormonism that the Biblical prophets were Mormons.

• Both assume, at the end of the day, justification before God Almighty by and through righteous works and holy living.

• Both invalidate the Lord’s finished work on the cross as the only efficacious sacrifice for sins, diminishing Christ.

• Both appeal and respect the “supernaturalization of the natural world” by welcoming heavenly messengers into the realm of acquiring divine truth; Joseph related to Moroni, Mohammed to Gabriel.

• Both believe in a form of what is called “reversion.” Muslims believe all human beings are by nature Muslims, so the conversion of a non-Muslim to Islam is called a "reversion.” Similarly, reverting to the pre-existent state; Mormons believe every human was once aware of Mormon truths. Becoming LDS often means

Similarities in Religious Practices

Receiving what they once knew to be true but lost.

• And both embrace "temples" with Islam having sites in Jerusalem and the sacred Qibla in Saudi Arabia, and the Mormon having them all over the world.

These are just a few of the similarities. It is going to be extremely interesting to see how these two meld into one another in the years to come – to what I’m sure will be an applauding world.

And with that, let’s have a word of prayer.

PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER

PRAYER PRAYER PRAYER

Okay.

Early LDS Church Formation

So 5000 copies of the BOM were printed and went on sale in March of 1830. The next month, Joseph Smith formally organized his church. Remember, this was in the mindset of the Smith family for years – to restore the true Church of Jesus Christ to the earth. Once the Book of Mormon was printed, they had a distinguishing volume that would help set them apart from Bible-toting Christians and help them create a new American religion. Within a couple of months, there were about thirty members of the church.

For those of you LDS who call me and smugly question how I have made my living and how I make it today, you might be interested to know that shortly after starting his church, Joseph received another convenient revelation. In chapter five verse fourteen of the Book of Commandments (which would become what the LDS call the Doctrine and Covenants today) Joseph received a revelation from God pertaining to himself which said:

“the church which is in Coleville, Fayette, and Manchester . . . shall support thee . . . and in temporal labors thou shalt not have strength, for this is not thy calling.”

Recruitment and Doctrine

Immediately, Joseph sent men out to bring converts into his flock. He understood very well that the more people who came into the flock, the better the chances the revelation we just showed you could be a reality. Having started a ministry (and now a church) I can tell you from first-hand experience that there are two general models people use to financially survive in the world of religious proliferation – you can trust that the Lord will provide by and through the right people coming along and helping OR you can create a business model that requires extensive marketing, recruiting, and by placing demands on the flock to keep the ship afloat. You decide which model Joseph embraced from the get-go.

Well in an early recruiting trip, Oliver Cowdery and a convert named Parley Pratt were paired together. Pratt was a former Cambellite, a religious reformation movement formed by a man named Alexander Campbell. Now remember this name – Alexander Campbell – because many of his teachings (which were around for years before Joseph started claiming angelic visions) somehow found their way into the very text of . . . the Book of Mormon.

These teachings or positions formed the beliefs of a popular religious movement known as the Restorationist Movement, meaning it was around to restore the true church of Jesus back to the earth. LDS historian, Richard L. Bushman, in a comparison between the preaching of Alexander Campbell and early Mormonism lists many common doctrines, practices, or beliefs between them, including:

• The rejection of a paid clergy, titles, and denominationalism.
• Harmony between science and religion.
• Dedicated missionary zeal.
• A rejection of Calvinistic theology.
• A church using only the name of Jesus Christ and none other.
• A belief that God’s kingdom was to be established in America (a process known as “building Zion”).
• The rejection of all historic Christian creeds.
• Belief in an apostasy and the need for greater reformation.
• A “faith and works” doctrine of salvation.
• Focus on sequential acts that lead to salvation.
• A frontier-based spirit of self-reliance.
• The reinstitution of tithing.
• Harmony between science and religion.
• Dedicated missionary zeal.
• A rejection of Calvinistic theology.

Influence and Theories

We will see all of these present in our analysis of the Book of Mormon. Anyway, Parley Pratt (who was a former Campbellite restorationist) and Oliver Cowdery were out recruiting for Joseph and Pratt convinced Cowdery to visit a place called Mentor Ohio. It was here that Oliver was introduced (supposedly for the first time) to a man named Sidney Rigdon. Now, I say supposedly because there are a whole bunch of theories out there that say Joseph knew Rigdon well before he ever printed the Book of Mormon, and that Rigdon, who was also a Campbellite preacher, greatly influenced the construction of Joseph’s new “restorationist” book. Because there is so much conjecture

The Intersection of Early Mormon History and Sidney Rigdon

But when listening to a Mormon tell the story, it seems that Sidney Rigdon had become disillusioned with Alexander Campbell’s restorationist movement, and found himself intrigued with the story Cowdery shared about this new book of scripture and the church that had sprung up out of its golden loins. You see, floating all through the air of religious early America at this time was a charged spirit of Millenialism, and both the Cambellites and Joseph’s new church embraced similar thoughts about the topic. This was in addition to all those themes restorationists like Rigdon thought needed to be restored to the earth. Long story short, and according to the LDS, Sidney Rigdon was so impressed with the presence of these themes in this new religion, he not only left preaching for Alexander Campbell, he joined the Mormon church and converted his own congregation that met in nearby Kirkland Ohio to Mormonism as well. While Cowdery was out converting Rigdon, Joseph was stomping around the homefront in New York where it seems the citizens of Palmyra were quite hostile to him forming a new church.

As a result, most of the early converts to the church came from the southern part of the state of New York, but even his harvest of souls there was brutal due (in part) to the fact that Joseph had been brought to trial in not one but two different areas, Colesville and Bainbridge. Interestingly, when Joseph spoke of these trial years later, he said that he was brought before judges and courts because of “religious persecution.” This is interesting because Joseph failed to mention that was not charged with fraudulent religious practices but for pretending to see buried treasure and for sponging his living from such claims – charges for which he was convicted.

The Move to Kirkland, Ohio

Once Sidney Rigdon converted the members of his Kirkland, Ohio Campbellite congregation to Mormonism, he traveled out to New York to meet the Prophet (again supposedly) for the first time. While there, he convinced Joseph to move his new religion from New York to Kirkland Ohio. Believing that he would forever battle his reputation for being a glass-looker, and a lazy sponger in and around his hometown of Palmyra, Kirkland Ohio probably looked quite appealing to the young prophet. So in January of 1831, eight months after establishing his church in New York, Joseph, like Jim Jones after him, commanded his flock to follow him and his new second-hand man Sidney Ridgon, to a new location – Kirkland, Ohio. It is there we will leave Church history and next week turn our attention to the contents of the actual Book of Mormon.

Reader's Questions and Community Announcements

FROM DEBBIE: I have a question for you. Is it true that when an LDS woman marries a non-member they have to convert them within a certain number of years or get divorced and marry a member to get the eternal life with their family. I'm asking because our son has been married for nearly eight years and just had our first grandchild a year ago. It seems that his wife is trying very hard to cause a rift between my son and myself (I'm his mom) over the last year. She has accused me of things that are untrue. It is so hard to have a relationship with her. I do love her but cannot live this way. It breaks my heart. It seems to happen each time she has spent a substantial amount of time with her family. Could they be trying to turn them against us? People told us when the children come that's when it will get worse. And so it seems true. Any suggestions on how to handle this? God Bless you Shawn for all you do to help these people out of bondage!

One Minute before we wrap it up . . . Okay . . . a couple of reminders:

Upcoming Events

CAMPUS – this Sunday 10 and 2:30

A new women’s Bible study! Beginning Monday, June 11th at the downtown Denny’s from 7-9.

And . . . Our Summer Product Extravaganza! Five great products for ANY donation of fifty clams or more.

We’ll see you next week, here on

Rebecca Musser's Stand Against Abuse

Tom P. forwarded this to us – an article out of the Salt Lake Tribune. When Rebecca Musser set out on what would become a four-year task of testifying against polygamous sect leader Warren Jeffs and his followers, it meant facing people she knew. “People I grew up with and I had a great deal of love for [were] looking at me as if I was Satan’s child,” she said. Before the start of the first trial, “I was very, very much alone,” she said. “Even those closest to me made it known I was very much alone.” But as the only wife of former Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints prophet Rulon Jeffs to leave the group and speak out, she had a unique set of qualifications.

Musser's Role and Impact

In her first public speech in Utah since she left the FLDS, Musser, who is in her 30s, said she has purposely stayed out of the public eye during the felony trials, the last of which wrapped up this week. “I could do more good and make much more of a difference by being anonymous to the world,” she said. Musser spoke Wednesday as part of an event organized by Sheros, a organization founded in November to honor women who “have overcome extreme obstacles,” founder Celeste Gleave said. Musser was married at age 19 to Rulon Jeffs, then in his 80s. She left the sect after his deathSeparation from God—now overcome. Physical death remains, but it no longer separates us from life with God., as his son Warren Jeffs came to power. “There was a point where I thought, ‘No more of this. If this is heaven, then give me hell because I don’t want that heaven,’” she said.

Musser first testified against Warren Jeffs in 2007, when he went to trial in Utah for presiding over the marriage between her then-14-year-old sister Elissa Wall and their 19-year-old cousin. His conviction in that case was later overturned. Musser answered a call to assist investigators in Texas during a massive raid on the group’s Yearning for Zion Ranch in 2008. Afterwards, a dozen men were charged with offenses including sexual assault and bigamy. Musser interpreted the sect documents that formed the basis of the evidence against them. She was the only non-police witness in the guilt or innocence portion of Warren Jeffs’ trial on sexual assault of a child charges in two marriages to underage girls. Since his conviction and life prison sentence, Jeffs has accused Musser of lying in his so-called revelations from God, which his followers copy and send out by the thousands around the country. “It was never about the conviction. It was about the victims, those who had been violated,” she said. “I wish to God someone had stood up for me. I wish to God someone had spoken for me.”

Public Perception and Defending the LDS Church

From our good friend, Becky, who saw this in the Deseret News in January of this year:

A quote by comedian Bill Maher was the most glaring anti-Mormon statement made by a public figure during 2011, according to MormonVoices, a volunteer group dedicated to, in their words, "providing accurate information about the LDS Church." The Maher quote — "By any standard, Mormonism is more ridiculous than any other religion" — was just the first in a Top Ten listing prepared by the group as a way of holding "people accountable for inappropriate statements, and to help others see that certain claims about the LDS Church are incorrect," according to Scott Gordon, a managing director of MormonVoices.

MormonVoices is affiliated with the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR), an organization that tries to provide scholarly information about the doctrines, history and practices of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Neither FAIR nor MormonVoices is owned or controlled in any way by the LDS Church. "Religious bigotry is unacceptable," Gordon said in explaining why the organization compiled the list. "Statements which distort and belittle Mormon belief in order to marginalize Mormons are evidence of such bigotry." Many of the statements on the list were made during the political campaigning that took place during 2011. With two members of the LDS Church — Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman — competing for the Republican presidential nomination, "some political operatives and religious figures have engaged in anti-Mormon rhetoric to achieve political ends," said another MormonVoices managing director, John Lynch. "This isn't about good-natured jokes or legitimate questions," Lynch continued. "We're not concerned with comedians who make good-natured observations about Mormons, or responsible journalists who have reported on Mormons and their beliefs. "Instead, this is a list of statements that should be offensive to everyone, and are so disrespectful that their only

Anti-Mormon Statements and Public Perception

"Effect will be to increase bigotry against Mormons. Just as with other minority groups, it should no longer be socially acceptable for public figures to incite such prejudice against Mormons or their faith." Maher's statement was made during a presentation he made at George Washington University on Oct. 15, 2011. It was reported by Maureen Dowd in the New York Times three days later.

Top Ten Anti-Mormon Statements of 2011

The rest of MormonVoices' Top Ten Anti-Mormon Statements of 2011 include:

"(Mormonism is) one of the most egregious groups operating on American soil." (The late Christopher Hitchens on Slate, Oct. 17, 2011).

"The theology comes across as totally barmy. We can become gods with our own planets! And the practices strike me as creepy. No coffee and tea is bad enough. But the underwear!" (Michael Ruse, Chronicle of Higher Education, Nov. 30, 2011).

"The current head of the Mormon Church, Thomas S. Monson, known to his followers as 'prophet, seer and revelator,' is indistinguishable from the secular plutocratic oligarchs who exercise power in our supposed democracy" (Harold Bloom, the New York Times, Nov. 12, 2011).

"That is a mainstream view, that Mormonism is a cult … Every true, born again follower of Christ ought to embrace a Christian over a non-Christian" (Rev. Robert Jeffress, Values Voter Summit, Oct. 7, 2011).

"I believe a candidate who either by intent or effect promotes a false and dangerous religion is unfit to serve. Mitt Romney has said it is not his intent to promote Mormonism. Yet there can be little doubt that the effect of his candidacy — whether or not this is his intent — will be to promote Mormonism" (Warren Cole Smith, Patheos.com, May 24, 2011).

"Yes, it is my opinion that an indoctrinated Mormon should never be elected as President of the United States of America" (Tricia Erickson, CNN.com, July 7, 2011).

"Mormonism is not an orthodox Christian faith. It just is not … It's very clear that the Founding Fathers did not intend to preserve automatically religious liberty for non-Christian faiths" (Bryan Fischer, Focal Point radio show, September 2011).

"Can you name the candidate that's running for president that believes that if he's a good person in his religion he will receive his own planet? … Would you vote for someone for president who believes in their religion, if he's a good person, he'll get his own planet? … Do you want to get your own planet?" (Ben Ferguson, Fox 13 News, Memphis, Tenn., July 6, 2011).

"The Christian coalition, I think (another candidate) could get a lot of money from that, because Romney, obviously, not being a Christian …" (Ainsley Earhart, "Fox and Friends," July 17, 2011).

MormonVoices' Response on Political Neutrality

"MormonVoices is not a political organization and has no position on any candidate or campaign," Gordon noted. "Many statements included here concern politics, but are included because of their relevance to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

"And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you. Ye say that he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold, his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your iniquities." (2 Nephi 1:26)