Assessment of Mormonism
From the Mecca of Mormonism, Salt Lake City, Utah, This is HOTM, where we are learning to walk the Christian walk in the age of fulfillment. And I’m your host, Shawn McCraney.
Introduction to HOTM and its Beginnings
PRAYER
Show 14L A “2021” Revised
Assessment of Mormonism
Taped January 3rd 2021
Aired January 5th 2021
Like some of you, I have spent the majority of my adult life trying to find truth with a capital T. Along the way, I have encountered some really good presentations that, in the end, were found wanting when it comes to being tested. Many of you know that we started this ministry out when I came forward with a book called, Born-again Mormon written in 2003. That book got me invited on a television station here in Salt Lake (that is no longer English speaking) and every week we contrasted and compared Mormonism with what I called biblical Christianity.
The Strengths of the LDS Church
I have always maintained that in terms of material religion, there is no religious organization on earth that beats the LDS Church. I continue to make this claim and have yet to see anything to refute it relative to its:
Structure of authority
Systemization of doctrine and teachings
Physical facilities around the world
Financial security
A constant reiteration of moral principles and/or good living to its people
World-wide missional efforts
Bang for the donated buck
Fellowship, socialization, and overall clean living (relative to the standards of the rest of the world),
the capacity to inspire volunteerism, and
programs for the youth.
For some people, it’s these VERY things that make a church worthwhile, even inspired, and focusing on these merits millions of people around the world have found a home in Mormonism.
If someone was to ask me, “Hey, I don’t really care so much for doctrinal or historical infallibility, and I am willing to pay my dues and participate, what is a good church I could take myself (and/or my family to where (all the things I just mentioned) are available? Hands down – the Mormon church. I mean, it’s like, WHY go anywhere else IF your focus is on the here and now, on your family here and now, on being part of a vast community that acts and thinks alike? Why mess around with the Catholics, or the Protestants, or the non-denoms IF the priorities you have for belonging to a church are all the things I just mentioned?
I mean, forget about CAMPUS, forget about South Mountain, or Calvary Chapels, or some small country church or some large megachurch – they can’t compete! Mormonism beats them to a pulp. Of course, they ask for some dedication from their people which will take up a lot of your time, but that is sort of a requirement if someone’s ambitions are centered on how your church will benefit you here and no, right?
If you want to be involved you ought to expect to be involved, to volunteer, to contribute, and to donate time and money. That’s understandable. What I don’t get is why ANYONE who is looking for a church to provide them or their family with these things alone would belong to any other organized church?
Conclusion
So again, after all of these years looking at churches, and talking with the leaders, are seeing what they demand of their congregations, if all a person wants out of church is what it will do for them and their family in this world, there’s no place like “Mo.”
A Comparative Analogy
I guess a comparison would be that it’s sort of like how to spend your vacation dollars and time. You have saved ten thousand dollars up to take your family on a wonderful vacation and have two weeks coming, right? And there are all sorts of destinations out there calling for your patronage. But your family in particular is not interested in hiking, or sightseeing, your family loves . . . amusement parks with roller coasters – so that narrows the competition down a bit. And your family also likes warm weather. No snow, no rainy wet weather. Warm. And finally, your family likes clean and orderly amusement parks. Clean park operators, swept streets.
So all these factors come into play when choosing a destination for your vacation – and automatically your mind turns to Disneyland in Anaheim or Disneyworld/Epcot in Florida. Perhaps there are others in the running too = Knott’s Berry Farm, Universal Studios, and the like. The point of this analogy is it would be ridiculous to take your time, money, and family go to any other establishment if it fails or falls…
The Argument for Mormonism's Appeal
Short in providing you with an amusement park with roller coasters, warm weather, and super clean surroundings. Why settle for something lesser than the best, right? This is YOUR life, your family, your money, and there is no reason under the sun to settle for a subpar experience – whether it be a vacation or church allegiance.
See, if or when non-LDS churches get in the game of competing with Mormonism on such things like: Structure of authority, systemization of doctrine and teachings, physical facilities around the world, financial security, a constant reiteration of moral principles and/or good living to its people, worldwide missional efforts, bang for the donated buck, fellowship, socialization, and overall clean living (relative to the standards of the rest of the world), the capacity to inspire volunteerism, and programs for the youth. Such attempts ought to be seen as-as big of a joke as a parking lot carnival run by ex-convicts in Antarctica trying to compete with the Disney Empire around the world.
I honestly do not understand why people would give any time or money or devotion when there is a much better place out there to land religiously – all things considered. And in this specific way, I think Mormonism is actually a gift to the world. It’s as beneficial to the well-being of this world’s citizenry and their families here as Walmart, Apple, Standard Oil, Amazon, or Starbucks. Would you go to a cut-rate heart doctor if you have access to the best surgeon on earth?
Utilitarianism and Religious Choice
What we are talking about folks is Utilitarianism here, folks which is by some people defined as, an action being right insofar as it promotes happiness, and that the greatest happiness of the greatest number should be the guiding principle of conduct.
Therefore, what we are really talking about is happiness? And my point is if you are seeking happiness in your life, you should be a Mormon. Why be any other religion? Really? Oh, the truth?? Relative to God and Christ and life eternal. I see. This takes us into a whole different approach now, doesn’t it? And it’s one you really need to think about here. Ready? “If you are going to pursue an organized religion that does not give you the absolute truth, you might as well be a Mormon, take advantage of all it offers here and now, and run the risk of being part of their error along the way.
See, Mormonism’s errors are really not one bit more egregious than the errors the other “lesser successful brick and mortars” promote. So, on the one hand, you have the top of the line brick and mortar called Mormonism in terms of material management – and it has problems with doctrine, history, and eternal truths. On the other hand, you have ten thousand subpar material religious institutions which also have problems with doctrine, history, and eternal truths.
The Universality of Religious Imperfections
Pretend that every organized religion is compared to a singular pot of stew. All of them – from the biggest to the smallest. Mormonism, Presbyterianism, Catholicism – all of them are different pots of stew. And you look in the pot of Mormonism and there sitting in the mix is a big fat bull frog (which represents doctrinal, historical errors, and teachings). So, you say, “I will never be a Mormon because they have a frog in their stew!” And you say, “so I will go to a lesser successful church as a means to have frog-free stew!”
But what you don’t realize is ALL of the denominational pots have frogs in them. Every one of them! So, if you are going to be consuming frog anyway, you might as well belong to a group here on earth where you will at least be as happy as you can be, right?
Of course, the denoms will balk at this – with none of them admitting error – but there are frogs in every pot that go by the names of: Ontology of God, Eschatology, Ecclesiology, Eternal Punishment, Biblical Interpretations, Gifts of the Spirit, Financial mismanagement in the name of God, Hate, And on and on and on!
So, what am I saying here through all of this? I am saying that church is church is church, and if you are ONLY interested in a “good church” (as defined on an earthly material basis) be a Mormon. But if you are looking for truth with a capital T, and are willing to forego happiness, certainty, pleasure, and sometimes good fellowship in the pursuit,
“It really doesn’t matter where you go to church or if you attend church. They are all of
Seeking a Higher Kingdom
This world and they all serve bullfrogs. Everyone of them. But if you seek to invest in the world above, in that Kingdom that thrives in truth and light, in that Kingdom that exacts pain and suffering and loss of self along the way, that Kingdom that demands a walk by faith and love, that Kingdom which is above, and to truly be a honest genuine disciple of Jesus, then the weekly activities aimed at making this life better will become less and less important to you, and the daily activities of faith, humility, and suffering will begin to take hold. Understand this – if you are in a church to escape suffering and to find happiness, you have your reward. Enjoy it while you are here and while it lasts.
But if you are willing to suffer in the name and cause of Christ, to be alienated (no matter what church you choose), there is a Kingdom calling to you and the church you presently attend or seek will become more and more meaningless to you, while the personal process of sanctification will take the main stage.
Comments and Reflections
Let’s check out your comments from the last week's shows!
Hebrews 8:11
People of the Free Gift
• 3 hours ago
Hebrews 8:11, quoting the Old Testament does not say, “nobody shall say know the Lord for all shall know him who are his” as Shawn stated. It says, “nobody shall say know the Lord, for all shall know him, from the least to the greatest.” Ask yourself if that is true. Ask yourself why Shawn is intentionally inserting “who are his” in order for it to be believable that this has already taken place.
Kenia Mendes
Growing up in a futuristic and legalistic church was really scary. The constant feeling of not following the laws plus waiting for the 2nd coming was very scary as a young kid. I remember having nightmares. Imagine everyone around you lifting up to meet Jesus in the clouds, and my feet felt like glued on the ground. The persecutions, and the plagues… It was scary! Not to mention everlasting hell!
Comment on Eli Sheets and Richard Neuman had a debate.
Women Speaking in Church
Sarah Leann Young
If those who believe in the literal interpretation of the verses regarding women speaking in the church were being honest, they would have to say that women can't say ANYTHING while in church because that's what the Scripture says. That means as soon as a woman walks into the church building on Sunday, NO TALKING. No church does that. No one. Not even the most legalistic, literalist churches in the world. Steve Anderson of Faithful Word Baptist Church in Arizona has said he'll drag a woman out of his church for trying to "take over the service" or teach in any way, but he still takes questions from women and you can hear them speaking clearly on the recordings of the services. No one takes it literally. They take it as literally as necessary in order to give themselves the power and control they want. When they don't need to interpret something literally in order to take power or control, they don't. Selective Literalism.
Hawk Davison
God be with you and yours… 2020 is one huge sh.t Show. Loved you for forever. Over a decade… You look great brother. I love you… That's true. Was Mormon. They do have great family values; it's quite the lure.
Nobody
Religion is for suckas, happy new year Shawn and keep fighting the good fight.
Art thou a brother or brethren? Thanks Shawn, you keep it up.
[13L NBP-4] Last Day – Last Hour – At Hand – Part 4
David Bennett
Independent of anything that I’ve listened to or studied, I’ve come to the same conclusion that, the most important thing that we can all unite on is love! Spread it and live it! Thanks for getting to the real heart of the matter guys!
Radio Free Mormon and Shawn McCraney
David Bennett
If I had one wish this holiday season? I wish Shawn McCranney would sit down with David Bokovoy and have a discussion about the Bible. I would pay money to see that!
David Bennett
To Shawn: So there are no rules to be a part of your group in Christ? Are you accepting of people that come to you with the typical Mormon beliefs?
Radio Free Mormon and Shawn McCraney
thenowchurch
Shawn, I agree with you on a ton of things.
Discussions on Biblical Times and Teachings
But you are wrong in saying that from Adam to Malachi is the same length of time as from Christ to now. Adam to Malachi is roughly 4 thousand years, according to Christian scholarship while Christ to now is about 2 thousand.
Interpretations of Paul's Teachings
OK, I take back my previous comment approving this video, I approve of the second coming teaching, the teaching at 24:00 is heresy. To say Paul's warning Christians against sin no longer applies today is heresy. WHERE does it say it no longer applies today?? When Paul told the Christians "and such WERE some of you," he was saying they USED to do those things in the past but have now REPENTED of doing those things! Jesus, Paul, and John warned over and over that if we continue in sin we will NOT enter heaven. Will our bodies desire to sin until we die?? YES it will, but we are to deny our bodies' evil desires. If we continue in sin, we will be sent to hell despite believing in Jesus AND our good works. Jesus said, "many will come to me saying 'lord lord, did we not do many mighty works in your name'?" Then Jesus will say to them, "depart from me you who WORK INIQUITY." They continued in sin and refused to repent of sin. We will continue in sin till we die??? NO, Jesus told the woman caught in adultery AND a man he healed…." Go and sin NO MORE." Was Jesus lying to them by commanding them to do something that was impossible for them to do???
Views on the Last Days
The lord is not the author of confusion! Indeed we are in the last days, but in the sense of post-Christ modern earth is the last period of earth's history from a biblical context. Very sad to see a pastor who I grew up listening to and guided me fall into this darkness of preterism. Well if you would explain away the clear meaning of the many scriptures that he quoted, then I could take you seriously.
Stephen: Interesting Shawn. I’m open to the idea. If there is no 2nd Coming as most people view it, is there some sort of end game or winding up scene? Or will humanity and earth just keep chugging along with Jesus further and further in the rear view mirror?
Chris E made a number of comments on this show. He was defending the fulfillment position. Eli jumped in with some responses which I will read now to refute his stance on fulfillment.
Reflections on Scriptural Signs
Eli Sheets: @Chris E Yeah there are still stones there. Jesus said not one would be left on another. You try to play the technical game yet leave that out. Jesus also said:
And the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and to test him they asked him to show them a sign from heaven. He answered them, "When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.’ And in the morning, ‘It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed. Matthew 16:1
Where is peace on Earth? Why did the disciples risk their lives spreading the gospel in the early church if there is no reason to? What about the church at Antioch, Ephesus, Corinth, etc.? Did they get raptured too? This would have been a massive event that no Romans decided to write about. No goats that were separated from the sheep.
Biblical Prophecy and Interpretation
Eli Sheets @Chris E And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains. “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Eli Sheets @Chris E "Nation will rise against nation" Apparently all this and everything else in these verses happened 70AD? No none of it happened in my opinion. Eli Sheets @Chris E Yeah there is something called the internet. Information is months maybe even in some cases years faster than the 1st century. Obviously you have heard of several wars. Eli Sheets @Chris E You are the ones jumping through hoops. First you start out saying you aren't a 70AD believer and now you are defending it tooth and nail. You do believe it is 70AD. You take about 2 verses and try to fit it all in your doctrine. This is exactly what you are accusing others of doing. You take the generation scripture and die on that hill. Never mind the fact that it says to all the nations and to all the ends of the Earth. Was Japan aware of this? It didn't happen but it is a cute story buddy.
Discussion on the Role of the Holy Spirit
13L NBP-4] Last Day – Last Hour – At Hand – Part 4 Michael Carr It's a big job to turn the ship around. All you say is true. [13L NBP-4] Last Day – Last Hour – At Hand – Part 4 Richard Anzlovar Was the Holy Spirit available to anyone in the Old Testament? Why was it so powerful in, well, a superpower way (Moses) in the Old Testament? Did The Holy Spirit change after Jesus? Meaning was it easier for people to receive it? Thank you, Sean. shawn answer – On, around, in and overflowing – a cup
Friendship and Love
[13S] Fleeing and Faithful Friends John Humble A friend loveth at ALL TIMES Shawn!!!! Proverbs 17:17 Happy New Year Brother!! God Bless you and your family and team!!!
[13S] Fleeing and Faithful Friends lindsay lindsey jr. So basically civil rights rule! Individual rights or secondary. Frankly speaking I don’t see a whole lot of American Pentecostals jumping on board with that, sadly. My uncle Stemo is fond of stating, “whoever can’t figure out why we grow old so quickly and wise so slowly will conquer the world.“ I thank Abba for the ministry brother and pray blessings over your whole tribe this new year
[13S] Fleeing and Faithful Friends byronofcalgary God sees the mix of good and bad in us… and loves us anyway Friends… do the same… Thank God
[13S] Fleeing and Faithful Friends Mary Christensen Good teaching on this subject. Very insightful. Thank you
Reflections on Friendship
[13S] Fleeing and Faithful Friends Sarah Leann Young Also, you should probably stop getting sloshed before recordings, Shawn. Read better, lol. 😛
[13S] Fleeing and Faithful Friends Sarah Leann Young All so true, my friend. And might I add that not only will a true friend speak frankly with you, but when they do, if you're a true friend, you won't abandon them for it. People today think friends need to agree on everything, but they don't. They can't unless they're identical in every way. The key is to love in spite of differences, not to agree in order to love. The idea that unity is only possible when everyone is identical is just crazy.
[13S] Fleeing and Faithful Friends Patrick Leyerle Friends stick by you through thick and thin. True friends sacrifice for each other.
[13S] Fleeing and Faithful Friends A W Doesn't the description of the marriage of Cana represent the type and
The Effect of the Wine of Jesus' Day
Understanding Biblical Wine
In the context of biblical times, wine was often a significant part of social and religious festivities. Notably, in the wedding at Cana, Jesus performed the miracle of turning water into wine. This act was not just a testament to His divine power but also aligned with the cultural practices of the time. The wine then held a symbolic meaning that went beyond mere consumption; it indicated joy and celebration.
Wine in Social and Religious Contexts
In terms of potency, the wine of Jesus' day varied. Some scholars suggest that it was less alcoholic than today’s standards, often diluted with water. This practice not only extended the availability of wine but ensured it was safe for consumption, given the impurities in the water during those times. As wine was a central part of daily life, it played a practical role in social gatherings and religious ceremonies, reinforcing the cultural and social framework of the period.
In conclusion, understanding the role and nature of wine in biblical times offers deeper insights into its significance in biblical narratives.
